For we KDF players its a really really old complaint. It's not that we don't have science ships, its that at high tier all of the science ships have always been behind a paywall, and the single science ship not behind a paywall is a carrier not a pure science ship. It's not a bad ship. but its no longer a really good ship. Drive big carrier out, launch pets, do a tank build because if you try to do a science build with this ship you will die. Its a carrier with science, not a science ship..
KDF players have been asking, begging, demanding, pleading, praying, screaming, and flat crying for a "Racial" Klingon science ship since the game launched. Cryptic devs made a decision way back when have never even remotely seemed to have entertained the notion of a specifically designed line of Klingon science ships. And the Romulans are a bit in the same boat, though at least that do have science ships all the way to tier 5, and have fleet version of same. We KDF have Gorn ships filling the slot which are lovely ships but rather generic and pretty much reskins of fed sci ship stats. They're not unique. They don't feel special at all. (they dont even have a "gorn" bridge.. they use generic klingon bridges)
HOw would a Klingon science ship differ from its same tier fed science ship? Most likely it would mount 4 weapons forward, 2 aft.. have a slightly weaker hull, and shields, but have a better turn mode, and carry less momentum, and would tend to carry a bit more balanced layout of devices.. ie: Say at tier A t5 would mount 3 eng, 3 Sci, 3 TAC, Upgrade adds one sci.
The thought is the KDF would tend to have more combat oriented science ships (previous example.. the big KDF Carrier, Klingons would see such a ship as a combat support ship, and would tend to treat it as a light battlecruiser with specialist abilities.
But the Romulans need an additional science ship type also while KDF is so overdue for a science ship that players have given up on STO waiting for one. I run a science captain as my primary toon, and I have never had a science ship worthy of her. I have the Dyson, and its a great ship, but its a Dyson hull, not a Klingon hull.. it looks kinda Klingon, but I would always see it as a limited production ship. It still doesn't keel like a Klingon ship.
I don't play much any more... just once in a while. Primary reason is more then anything else several years of waiting for a Klingon Science ship. Secondary reason is the insane levels of number creep and utterly overpowered space ability and synergies and dps numbers that are so silly high as to render the game no longer a challange to play at any level.. And that will never be "fixed". It'd be easier to build a brand new ship combat system from scratch in a new title I suspect then it would be to reign this on in. *sigh*
I am on board with the Sci ship for KDF and Rom crew. I am happy with the ships I am flying now but would most probably get them (depending on price and looks, less on actual stats as long as they are at least half way decent).
I do NOT agree with the argument of admiralty though. Yes, Feds have an advantage in completing admiralty missions. KDF can get more out of them, though, since the amount of prisoners you get from them means an even more steady income of dil, added to the already heavily klink leaning doff system. (Fed Roms really lose out, don't they?)
An incentive to PLAYING KDF or Romulan science would be very welcome by me. Even more of an incentive to have them for farming only however would not.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
Honestly about the BoP's, they've always felt like a type of specialized escort when I've used them, where as Science Ships are a full on "class" of ship. My Tac Fed Toons might not have a battle cloaking raider to fly, but they do have plenty of t6 Escorts to pick from in the C-Store, my Sci Rom/KDF Toons on the other hand don't have a single t6 Sci Ship to use in the C-Store.
Or to use a probaly poorly thought out analogy, if Escorts are vanilla, Raiders are French vanilla, where as Sci Ships are chocolate or strawberry or some other totaly different flavor.
HOw would a Klingon science ship differ from its same tier fed science ship? Most likely it would mount 4 weapons forward, 2 aft.. have a slightly weaker hull, and shields, but have a better turn mode, and carry less momentum, and would tend to carry a bit more balanced layout of devices.. ie: Say at tier A t5 would mount 3 eng, 3 Sci, 3 TAC, Upgrade adds one sci.
Balanced consoles and a 4/2 layout. Maneuverable but less durable. Capable of mounting a lot of science abilities?
Let me guess, cloaking because it's a klingon ship? And the ability to mount cannons, since that's pretty standard?
Because that sounds a LOT like a Bird-of-Prey. Swap out a secondary deflector for a battle cloak, sensor analysis for a flanking bonus and you're basically there...
Honestly about the BoP's, they've always felt like a type of specialized escort when I've used them, where as Science Ships are a full on "class" of ship. My Tac Fed Toons might not have a battle cloaking raider to fly, but they do have plenty of t6 Escorts to pick from in the C-Store, my Sci Rom/KDF Toons on the other hand don't have a single t6 Sci Ship to use in the C-Store.
Or to use a probaly poorly thought out analogy, if Escorts are vanilla, Raiders are French vanilla, where as Sci Ships are chocolate or strawberry or some other totaly different flavor.
Birds have balanced consoles and all universal stations. I can slot my Kor with all science abilities. In fact, I actually slot significantly more science than tactical. I only have one station slotted with a tactical BOff.
Let's use your analogy... If you want vanilla versus french vanilla you want to look at patrol escort versus advanced escort. Those are obviously shades of the same flavor. The BoP is like Neapolitan ice cream. Sure, there's some vanilla in there, but there's also some strawberry and chocolate...
null (I'm not sure if this is quoting properly on mobile) In response to lianthelia: I said the opposite of what you apparently think I said... I hav no problem with the MME, in fact I like it a lot and use it to on my science alt. The point is that it was already feature rich to an extent that you didn't see aside from lock box ships, and is still very impressive at T5U compared to the T6 science ships AND the T6 fleet science ships AND costs more than a new T6 MME would sell for. No need for another.......... You're welcome, I just reiterated the main point of my original post.
"Intelligence is finite, stupidity is infinite" -- Umberto Eco
Please excuse my inability to post quotes. They stillpost as null
First let me say I completely agree with the demand for T6 science ships for those factions which have been neglected in this regard. Every faction should have their own version of a science ship.
But saying the Dyson Science ships are not as good as a T6 science ship is not true. The issue is lack of ability to EARN a trait. Once traits are earned the T5Us are better than most T6 ships. Fleet ships are then better still. The issue is access to traits, which one is buying when they buy a T6 ship. Most of those unique/epic consoles are left in storage once the novelty wears thin and captains see theyou get more out of slotting skill boosting console which reinforce their slotted Bridge Officer abilities.
Post edited by tancrediiv on
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
Annorax is probably double what you listed at 400m.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
null
(I'm not sure if this is quoting properly on mobile)
In response to lianthelia: I said the opposite of what you apparently think I said... I hav no problem with the MME, in fact I like it a lot and use it to on my science alt. The point is that it was already feature rich to an extent that you didn't see aside from lock box ships, and is still very impressive at T5U compared to the T6 science ships AND the T6 fleet science ships AND costs more than a new T6 MME would sell for. No need for another.......... You're welcome, I just reiterated the main point of my original post.
So...because you don't want or cant afford a T6 MME they shouldn't make one, is basically what you're saying then? Because it's the best non-loot based Sci ship it shouldn't get a upgrade?
I'm not seeing a logical reason from your posts why not to make a T6 MME...
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Because they make more money selling the T5 vs making a T6 and selling for 3000zen (also in my first post). Reading is a wonderful thing. It's too bad so many people don't really know how to do it properly. I'll consider a response to be trolling.
"Intelligence is finite, stupidity is infinite" -- Umberto Eco
@happyhappyj0yj0y And ya know what, if they gave science variant Bop with proper since equipment and boff seating, most KDF players would dance the jig!
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Not sure if this was stated before or not.... but even with the T5 lockout Romulans STILL have more variety in science options(if fed aligned) Simply because they can claim all ships T1-T4.
What little my KDF has in Science is decent(if I don't mind waiting cruiser-time for a turn radius) and the case of the Dyson is a case of too little too late in the "you can use Klingon/Romulan/Fed skins now.
Yes... it is marketed as a science battle cruiser and yea, it acts fairly decently like one, but too many people were simply turned off from them entirely simply because either important science features are locked out under the transformation(Want to turn like those fed sci ships? Better go tac-mode and lose that second deflector and sensor analysis!) Or that nobody liked staring at a huge white blob that reminds little boys of the stuff that comes out when they spank it to their space ships.
We don't want what the Feds have. We want the equivalent. We want fairer treatment. Concern, desire, greed to some extent, and passionate belief that the enough people would buy KDF items to make it worth Cryptic's while.
@happyhappyj0yj0y And ya know what, if they gave science variant Bop with proper since equipment and boff seating, most KDF players would dance the jig!
Let's be honest here, that's not exactly true. Most players would be happier but they wouldn't be happy, and they wouldn't buy it. Most KDF captains aren't looking to fly science ships any more than most federation captains are (which they aren't). Science vessels are a niche thing.
If they released a Bird-themed science ship you'd will see a fraction of KDF players who are very happy. Most KDF players? Most would grumble about it having taken so long to get a KDF science ship at T6, then halfheartedly praise Cryptic for finally doing it... then they'd not buy it, and go back to flying battle cruisers, with a side helping of raptors and the very occasional BoP.
But yes, a few KDF captains would buy it and be very happy with it. And no doubt even a few KDF captains looking for science vessels would complain because, if they were to give a Bird a secondary deflector and sensor analysis they'd no doubt have to downgrade the battle cloak to standard cloak and drop the flanking damage to balance it. Then of course some people would complain because it's a Bird-of-Prey without battle cloaking and flanking. Then you'd have some complain because it doesn't have a hangar like the Vesta (and yeah you'll have fed science vessel captains complaining that their ships aren't also 4/2 instead of 3/3). Inevitably some people, including ones who should be, are never happy (see a tonne of people looking for a T6 Defiant for reference).
The one thing I can guarantee is that no matter who does what mostly everyone won't be dancing a jig...
I'm still working on leveling my Sci character with a Sci ship. And its been fun since I done the other 2 types. I can see why they want more. Romulan and KDF really needs a couple more. Fed has a few nice ones, but more is good.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
@happyhappyj0yj0y And ya know what, if they gave science variant Bop with proper since equipment and boff seating, most KDF players would dance the jig!
Let's be honest here, that's not exactly true. Most players would be happier but they wouldn't be happy, and they wouldn't buy it. Most KDF captains aren't looking to fly science ships any more than most federation captains are (which they aren't). Science vessels are a niche thing.
If they released a Bird-themed science ship you'd will see a fraction of KDF players who are very happy. Most KDF players? Most would grumble about it having taken so long to get a KDF science ship at T6, then halfheartedly praise Cryptic for finally doing it... then they'd not buy it, and go back to flying battle cruisers, with a side helping of raptors and the very occasional BoP.
But yes, a few KDF captains would buy it and be very happy with it. And no doubt even a few KDF captains looking for science vessels would complain because, if they were to give a Bird a secondary deflector and sensor analysis they'd no doubt have to downgrade the battle cloak to standard cloak and drop the flanking damage to balance it. Then of course some people would complain because it's a Bird-of-Prey without battle cloaking and flanking. Then you'd have some complain because it doesn't have a hangar like the Vesta (and yeah you'll have fed science vessel captains complaining that their ships aren't also 4/2 instead of 3/3). Inevitably some people, including ones who should be, are never happy (see a tonne of people looking for a T6 Defiant for reference).
The one thing I can guarantee is that no matter who does what mostly everyone won't be dancing a jig...
Ofcourse you can't make everyone happy, but hell just that there was a KDF sci ship with appropriate equipment would be enough to make me happy, BoP or not. Hell even if it was a raptor that was a science ship I'd be happy.
Least there would be a full on science ship that can be used at tier 6.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Vocal minority. But don't take my word for it, money talks. When the devs see something selling well, they make more of it. Therefore, by simple business logic, there are less science ships coming out because they are selling less than other types.
Of course, should the Annorax promo have been extraordinary succesful, it might represent a turn. The Annorax seemed one of the most difficult to get ships - but now the Vonph seems similar, it fetches even higher prices apparerently on the TheTradingChanne then the Annorax. So it might not be related to the ship at all, and just the current going rate for promo ships...
---
If anyone is wondering what the magical formula for a good science vessel is:
Sensor Analysis
Secondary Deflectors
Decent Turn Rate (10+)
Commander and Lt.Cmdr Science slots (or at least the potential to add a Lt.Cmdr Science, no one will hate the ship for a Universal Slot - unless you still put in anther Lt. Science.)
If you give it a 3/3 weapon setup, that's pretty much all neccessary. If you add a front weapon slot or some hangar bays, you might get away with a lower turn rate. (See Annorax).
I deliberately omit Subsystem Targeting, because it's rarely useful.
At least that's how I see it if you look at the ships people say were "sucky" science vessels. People say the Varanus sucked, but it's the same as the DSSV, plus a special ability console -but both ships have sucky turn rates. Science-Wise, they can do the same things other (Tier 5) Science Vessels could do.
At Tier 5, the Vesta is basically the golden example of a Science Vessel. It has all of what I list above, plus a hangar bay. But the Tier 6 ships get away without the hangar bay - but it will be interesting to see how people react if there is a Tier 6 Vesta that's basically like the Pathfinder, except with a hangar bay and more universal slots... And by "interesting" I mean "predictably, Vesta will again be the new gold standard and leave the other science vessels in the dust in the perception of players. Only the Scryer might get away with it because it also has Intel abilities and Cloak."
Heheh, I thought what people wanted out of a Science Vessel was 7-8 weapon slots, Cmdr TAC, 5 fwd weapons and 5 tac consoles, and a hangar bay, with battle cloaks?
Vocal minority. But don't take my word for it, money talks. When the devs see something selling well, they make more of it. Therefore, by simple business logic, there are less science ships coming out because they are selling less than other types.
Of course, should the Annorax promo have been extraordinary succesful, it might represent a turn. The Annorax seemed one of the most difficult to get ships - but now the Vonph seems similar, it fetches even higher prices apparerently on the TheTradingChanne then the Annorax. So it might not be related to the ship at all, and just the current going rate for promo ships...
---
If anyone is wondering what the magical formula for a good science vessel is:
Sensor Analysis
Secondary Deflectors
Decent Turn Rate (10+)
Commander and Lt.Cmdr Science slots (or at least the potential to add a Lt.Cmdr Science, no one will hate the ship for a Universal Slot - unless you still put in anther Lt. Science.)
If you give it a 3/3 weapon setup, that's pretty much all neccessary. If you add a front weapon slot or some hangar bays, you might get away with a lower turn rate. (See Annorax).
I deliberately omit Subsystem Targeting, because it's rarely useful.
At least that's how I see it if you look at the ships people say were "sucky" science vessels. People say the Varanus sucked, but it's the same as the DSSV, plus a special ability console -but both ships have sucky turn rates. Science-Wise, they can do the same things other (Tier 5) Science Vessels could do.
At Tier 5, the Vesta is basically the golden example of a Science Vessel. It has all of what I list above, plus a hangar bay. But the Tier 6 ships get away without the hangar bay - but it will be interesting to see how people react if there is a Tier 6 Vesta that's basically like the Pathfinder, except with a hangar bay and more universal slots... And by "interesting" I mean "predictably, Vesta will again be the new gold standard and leave the other science vessels in the dust in the perception of players. Only the Scryer might get away with it because it also has Intel abilities and Cloak."
Heheh, I thought what people wanted out of a Science Vessel was 7-8 weapon slots, Cmdr TAC, 5 fwd weapons and 5 tac consoles, and a hangar bay, with battle cloaks?
@happyhappyj0yj0y And ya know what, if they gave science variant Bop with proper since equipment and boff seating, most KDF players would dance the jig!
Let's be honest here, that's not exactly true. Most players would be happier but they wouldn't be happy, and they wouldn't buy it. Most KDF captains aren't looking to fly science ships any more than most federation captains are (which they aren't). Science vessels are a niche thing.
If they released a Bird-themed science ship you'd will see a fraction of KDF players who are very happy. Most KDF players? Most would grumble about it having taken so long to get a KDF science ship at T6, then halfheartedly praise Cryptic for finally doing it... then they'd not buy it, and go back to flying battle cruisers, with a side helping of raptors and the very occasional BoP.
But yes, a few KDF captains would buy it and be very happy with it. And no doubt even a few KDF captains looking for science vessels would complain because, if they were to give a Bird a secondary deflector and sensor analysis they'd no doubt have to downgrade the battle cloak to standard cloak and drop the flanking damage to balance it. Then of course some people would complain because it's a Bird-of-Prey without battle cloaking and flanking. Then you'd have some complain because it doesn't have a hangar like the Vesta (and yeah you'll have fed science vessel captains complaining that their ships aren't also 4/2 instead of 3/3). Inevitably some people, including ones who should be, are never happy (see a tonne of people looking for a T6 Defiant for reference).
The one thing I can guarantee is that no matter who does what mostly everyone won't be dancing a jig...
The model for a "real" Klingon Science Vessel might be the Dyson Destroyer, and it has only a 3/3 layout (4/3 in destroyer mode, when it is no longer a full science vessel).
Personally I think the Dyson Destroyer is the second-best Science Vessel at Tier 5. The Vesta still beats it because its hangar bays add some extra damage and utility potential, while the destroyer mode is really just a choice between flying a science escort or a tactical-focused science vessel.
But a Lt.Cmdr Tac is nothing to sneeze at and works well with torpedo based science vessels, for example. Being able to combine a high level torp spread and grav well with an attack pattern (and nowadays kemocite?) is pretty good. You're losing one Science Lt.Cmdr power, of course, but there are no 3 offensive science abilities you could actually use effectively together at the same time. There are cooldown lockouts or there are practical problems (Repulsors + Gravity Well don't mix so well). Of course, there are theoretically some science powers you could use, like scramble sensors, charged particle burst, viral matrix, but they are subpar abilities and an Attack Pattern Omega or Beta to raise your damage output will likely be of much more use.
The only problem is that only the Romulan Dyson Destroyer looks really good, even in Dyson materials. The Klingon can be made to work now, many months later that they unlocked Klingon skins on it. The Fed one? Nope.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Vocal minority. But don't take my word for it, money talks. When the devs see something selling well, they make more of it. Therefore, by simple business logic, there are less science ships coming out because they are selling less than other types.
Of course, should the Annorax promo have been extraordinary succesful, it might represent a turn. The Annorax seemed one of the most difficult to get ships - but now the Vonph seems similar, it fetches even higher prices apparerently on the TheTradingChanne then the Annorax. So it might not be related to the ship at all, and just the current going rate for promo ships...
---
If anyone is wondering what the magical formula for a good science vessel is:
Sensor Analysis
Secondary Deflectors
Decent Turn Rate (10+)
Commander and Lt.Cmdr Science slots (or at least the potential to add a Lt.Cmdr Science, no one will hate the ship for a Universal Slot - unless you still put in anther Lt. Science.)
If you give it a 3/3 weapon setup, that's pretty much all neccessary. If you add a front weapon slot or some hangar bays, you might get away with a lower turn rate. (See Annorax).
I deliberately omit Subsystem Targeting, because it's rarely useful.
At least that's how I see it if you look at the ships people say were "sucky" science vessels. People say the Varanus sucked, but it's the same as the DSSV, plus a special ability console -but both ships have sucky turn rates. Science-Wise, they can do the same things other (Tier 5) Science Vessels could do.
At Tier 5, the Vesta is basically the golden example of a Science Vessel. It has all of what I list above, plus a hangar bay. But the Tier 6 ships get away without the hangar bay - but it will be interesting to see how people react if there is a Tier 6 Vesta that's basically like the Pathfinder, except with a hangar bay and more universal slots... And by "interesting" I mean "predictably, Vesta will again be the new gold standard and leave the other science vessels in the dust in the perception of players. Only the Scryer might get away with it because it also has Intel abilities and Cloak."
Heheh, I thought what people wanted out of a Science Vessel was 7-8 weapon slots, Cmdr TAC, 5 fwd weapons and 5 tac consoles, and a hangar bay, with battle cloaks?
You forgot pilot maneuvers!
Nah, it needs EBC so it can use sciency stuff while cloaked!
Vocal minority. But don't take my word for it, money talks. When the devs see something selling well, they make more of it. Therefore, by simple business logic, there are less science ships coming out because they are selling less than other types.
Of course, should the Annorax promo have been extraordinary succesful, it might represent a turn. The Annorax seemed one of the most difficult to get ships - but now the Vonph seems similar, it fetches even higher prices apparerently on the TheTradingChanne then the Annorax. So it might not be related to the ship at all, and just the current going rate for promo ships...
---
If anyone is wondering what the magical formula for a good science vessel is:
Sensor Analysis
Secondary Deflectors
Decent Turn Rate (10+)
Commander and Lt.Cmdr Science slots (or at least the potential to add a Lt.Cmdr Science, no one will hate the ship for a Universal Slot - unless you still put in anther Lt. Science.)
If you give it a 3/3 weapon setup, that's pretty much all neccessary. If you add a front weapon slot or some hangar bays, you might get away with a lower turn rate. (See Annorax).
I deliberately omit Subsystem Targeting, because it's rarely useful.
At least that's how I see it if you look at the ships people say were "sucky" science vessels. People say the Varanus sucked, but it's the same as the DSSV, plus a special ability console -but both ships have sucky turn rates. Science-Wise, they can do the same things other (Tier 5) Science Vessels could do.
At Tier 5, the Vesta is basically the golden example of a Science Vessel. It has all of what I list above, plus a hangar bay. But the Tier 6 ships get away without the hangar bay - but it will be interesting to see how people react if there is a Tier 6 Vesta that's basically like the Pathfinder, except with a hangar bay and more universal slots... And by "interesting" I mean "predictably, Vesta will again be the new gold standard and leave the other science vessels in the dust in the perception of players. Only the Scryer might get away with it because it also has Intel abilities and Cloak."
Heheh, I thought what people wanted out of a Science Vessel was 7-8 weapon slots, Cmdr TAC, 5 fwd weapons and 5 tac consoles, and a hangar bay, with battle cloaks?
You forgot pilot maneuvers!
Nah, it needs EBC so it can use sciency stuff while cloaked!
Because they make more money selling the T5 vs making a T6 and selling for 3000zen (also in my first post).
Reading is a wonderful thing. It's too bad so many people don't really know how to do it properly.
I'll consider a response to be trolling.
T5 + U = 3200 zen
T6 + F = 3500 zen
Math obviously isn't your friend...
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Comments
KDF players have been asking, begging, demanding, pleading, praying, screaming, and flat crying for a "Racial" Klingon science ship since the game launched. Cryptic devs made a decision way back when have never even remotely seemed to have entertained the notion of a specifically designed line of Klingon science ships. And the Romulans are a bit in the same boat, though at least that do have science ships all the way to tier 5, and have fleet version of same. We KDF have Gorn ships filling the slot which are lovely ships but rather generic and pretty much reskins of fed sci ship stats. They're not unique. They don't feel special at all. (they dont even have a "gorn" bridge.. they use generic klingon bridges)
HOw would a Klingon science ship differ from its same tier fed science ship? Most likely it would mount 4 weapons forward, 2 aft.. have a slightly weaker hull, and shields, but have a better turn mode, and carry less momentum, and would tend to carry a bit more balanced layout of devices.. ie: Say at tier A t5 would mount 3 eng, 3 Sci, 3 TAC, Upgrade adds one sci.
The thought is the KDF would tend to have more combat oriented science ships (previous example.. the big KDF Carrier, Klingons would see such a ship as a combat support ship, and would tend to treat it as a light battlecruiser with specialist abilities.
But the Romulans need an additional science ship type also while KDF is so overdue for a science ship that players have given up on STO waiting for one. I run a science captain as my primary toon, and I have never had a science ship worthy of her. I have the Dyson, and its a great ship, but its a Dyson hull, not a Klingon hull.. it looks kinda Klingon, but I would always see it as a limited production ship. It still doesn't keel like a Klingon ship.
I don't play much any more... just once in a while. Primary reason is more then anything else several years of waiting for a Klingon Science ship. Secondary reason is the insane levels of number creep and utterly overpowered space ability and synergies and dps numbers that are so silly high as to render the game no longer a challange to play at any level.. And that will never be "fixed". It'd be easier to build a brand new ship combat system from scratch in a new title I suspect then it would be to reign this on in. *sigh*
Khemaraa sends
I do NOT agree with the argument of admiralty though. Yes, Feds have an advantage in completing admiralty missions. KDF can get more out of them, though, since the amount of prisoners you get from them means an even more steady income of dil, added to the already heavily klink leaning doff system. (Fed Roms really lose out, don't they?)
An incentive to PLAYING KDF or Romulan science would be very welcome by me. Even more of an incentive to have them for farming only however would not.
Or to use a probaly poorly thought out analogy, if Escorts are vanilla, Raiders are French vanilla, where as Sci Ships are chocolate or strawberry or some other totaly different flavor.
Balanced consoles and a 4/2 layout. Maneuverable but less durable. Capable of mounting a lot of science abilities?
Let me guess, cloaking because it's a klingon ship? And the ability to mount cannons, since that's pretty standard?
Because that sounds a LOT like a Bird-of-Prey. Swap out a secondary deflector for a battle cloak, sensor analysis for a flanking bonus and you're basically there...
Birds have balanced consoles and all universal stations. I can slot my Kor with all science abilities. In fact, I actually slot significantly more science than tactical. I only have one station slotted with a tactical BOff.
Let's use your analogy... If you want vanilla versus french vanilla you want to look at patrol escort versus advanced escort. Those are obviously shades of the same flavor. The BoP is like Neapolitan ice cream. Sure, there's some vanilla in there, but there's also some strawberry and chocolate...
(I'm not sure if this is quoting properly on mobile)
In response to lianthelia: I said the opposite of what you apparently think I said... I hav no problem with the MME, in fact I like it a lot and use it to on my science alt. The point is that it was already feature rich to an extent that you didn't see aside from lock box ships, and is still very impressive at T5U compared to the T6 science ships AND the T6 fleet science ships AND costs more than a new T6 MME would sell for. No need for another.......... You're welcome, I just reiterated the main point of my original post.
First let me say I completely agree with the demand for T6 science ships for those factions which have been neglected in this regard. Every faction should have their own version of a science ship.
But saying the Dyson Science ships are not as good as a T6 science ship is not true. The issue is lack of ability to EARN a trait. Once traits are earned the T5Us are better than most T6 ships. Fleet ships are then better still. The issue is access to traits, which one is buying when they buy a T6 ship. Most of those unique/epic consoles are left in storage once the novelty wears thin and captains see theyou get more out of slotting skill boosting console which reinforce their slotted Bridge Officer abilities.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
Expatriot Might Characters in EXILE
Aquarius has Flanking.
Annorax is probably double what you listed at 400m.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
So...because you don't want or cant afford a T6 MME they shouldn't make one, is basically what you're saying then? Because it's the best non-loot based Sci ship it shouldn't get a upgrade?
I'm not seeing a logical reason from your posts why not to make a T6 MME...
Reading is a wonderful thing. It's too bad so many people don't really know how to do it properly.
I'll consider a response to be trolling.
edit. I love sci. if I trolled about the abilities. then everyone has to be sci/sci. at its most pure.
collard plays Ravel pavane pour infant deffunte
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What little my KDF has in Science is decent(if I don't mind waiting cruiser-time for a turn radius) and the case of the Dyson is a case of too little too late in the "you can use Klingon/Romulan/Fed skins now.
Yes... it is marketed as a science battle cruiser and yea, it acts fairly decently like one, but too many people were simply turned off from them entirely simply because either important science features are locked out under the transformation(Want to turn like those fed sci ships? Better go tac-mode and lose that second deflector and sensor analysis!) Or that nobody liked staring at a huge white blob that reminds little boys of the stuff that comes out when they spank it to their space ships.
My character Tsin'xing
Let's be honest here, that's not exactly true. Most players would be happier but they wouldn't be happy, and they wouldn't buy it. Most KDF captains aren't looking to fly science ships any more than most federation captains are (which they aren't). Science vessels are a niche thing.
If they released a Bird-themed science ship you'd will see a fraction of KDF players who are very happy. Most KDF players? Most would grumble about it having taken so long to get a KDF science ship at T6, then halfheartedly praise Cryptic for finally doing it... then they'd not buy it, and go back to flying battle cruisers, with a side helping of raptors and the very occasional BoP.
But yes, a few KDF captains would buy it and be very happy with it. And no doubt even a few KDF captains looking for science vessels would complain because, if they were to give a Bird a secondary deflector and sensor analysis they'd no doubt have to downgrade the battle cloak to standard cloak and drop the flanking damage to balance it. Then of course some people would complain because it's a Bird-of-Prey without battle cloaking and flanking. Then you'd have some complain because it doesn't have a hangar like the Vesta (and yeah you'll have fed science vessel captains complaining that their ships aren't also 4/2 instead of 3/3). Inevitably some people, including ones who should be, are never happy (see a tonne of people looking for a T6 Defiant for reference).
The one thing I can guarantee is that no matter who does what mostly everyone won't be dancing a jig...
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Ofcourse you can't make everyone happy, but hell just that there was a KDF sci ship with appropriate equipment would be enough to make me happy, BoP or not. Hell even if it was a raptor that was a science ship I'd be happy.
Least there would be a full on science ship that can be used at tier 6.
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Seriously though it's just more whining and fighting.
Heheh, I thought what people wanted out of a Science Vessel was 7-8 weapon slots, Cmdr TAC, 5 fwd weapons and 5 tac consoles, and a hangar bay, with battle cloaks?
You forgot pilot maneuvers!
Personally I think the Dyson Destroyer is the second-best Science Vessel at Tier 5. The Vesta still beats it because its hangar bays add some extra damage and utility potential, while the destroyer mode is really just a choice between flying a science escort or a tactical-focused science vessel.
But a Lt.Cmdr Tac is nothing to sneeze at and works well with torpedo based science vessels, for example. Being able to combine a high level torp spread and grav well with an attack pattern (and nowadays kemocite?) is pretty good. You're losing one Science Lt.Cmdr power, of course, but there are no 3 offensive science abilities you could actually use effectively together at the same time. There are cooldown lockouts or there are practical problems (Repulsors + Gravity Well don't mix so well). Of course, there are theoretically some science powers you could use, like scramble sensors, charged particle burst, viral matrix, but they are subpar abilities and an Attack Pattern Omega or Beta to raise your damage output will likely be of much more use.
The only problem is that only the Romulan Dyson Destroyer looks really good, even in Dyson materials. The Klingon can be made to work now, many months later that they unlocked Klingon skins on it. The Fed one? Nope.
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Who's to say they don't want both?
T5 + U = 3200 zen
T6 + F = 3500 zen
Math obviously isn't your friend...
How can you agree with everyone, when some of the people have differing opinions?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
What does fleet level have to do with T6?