While the valiant is outclassed by the phantom/pilot ships, and its set bonus is effectively useless. its still quite capable of doing the endgame content, its still a perfectly functional ships, its just what value the player chooses to put on it, is it worth the 3k zen pricetag, probably not, but thats subjective value as it is, some people may very well think it is worth it.
i Had a very good idea to make the ship buyable ,Put the Quad cannon on the front as nonremovable cannon .So hear me out that would make it 5forward and 3aft ,but it wouldnt be OP cause the quad kindof sucks compared to the dual heavys and that would kill any FAW builds haveing the cannon in the way. So boom the ship is worth buying to try to make a good cannon ship and you wouldnt have to change any thing .
In Star Trek there are rules. But they only apply to the Federation, everyone else can do whatever they want. Its part of Gene´s idiotic legacy, the Federation has to be so above reproach as to be willfully stupid. Part of it is also to make the main cast appear so far above everyone else as to be moral paragons. Its why Starfleet is generally useless unless its the main cast and their ship.
i Had a very good idea to make the ship buyable ,Put the Quad cannon on the front as nonremovable cannon .So hear me out that would make it 5forward and 3aft ,but it wouldnt be OP cause the quad kindof sucks compared to the dual heavys and that would kill any FAW builds haveing the cannon in the way. So boom the ship is worth buying to try to make a good cannon ship and you wouldnt have to change any thing .
An extra slot for the Kor and Malem would also be nice. Somehow I doubt they're going to go for that type of change. They don't change much from the layout they had much too often. If it was 4/3 at T5, it will be 4/3 at T6. And if (and I hope that day NEVER comes) it comes to a T7, each ship that was a remake of one before, will have the same amount of weapons slot after.
All this talk about cloaks is pointless. Cloaks aren´t even weighted when Cryptic figures out ships stats, They just add it on kdf and rom ships as freebies. In PVP they can be devastating, but in PVE they´re actually detrimental to use beyond the initial decloak boost.
It kind of is weighted at times; it's one of the reasons why the Romulan Command ships don't get any Cruiser abilities. Due to them being able to Battle Cloak while the KDF Command ships could only normal cloak (and the Fed ships could not even cloak).
I'm hoping they just give the Defiant a 2-pc bonus to cannons and torps and call it a day, and move on to more important things. They've already made some pretty good money, judging by the number of them I've seen across Red Alerts and queues (even if most of those players only got them for the trait).
Actually there are. They are called Geneva Conventions.
Which are followed only when embedded reporters are there to get in the way of effective military operations.
"So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again."
-Dedication plaque of the Federation Starship U.S.S. Merkava
All this talk about cloaks is pointless. Cloaks aren´t even weighted when Cryptic figures out ships stats, They just add it on kdf and rom ships as freebies. In PVP they can be devastating, but in PVE they´re actually detrimental to use beyond the initial decloak boost.
Cloaks are no laughing matter. At the very least they give that initial extra punch. Battle Cloak / Enhanced Battle Cloaks are even more powerful because you can reapply that decloak bonus during combat.
Vast majority of players in PVE do not understand the value of cloaks, especially Battle Cloaks and I think the art of proper Enhanced Battle Cloak use is practically extinct in this playerbase. This is a dirty blanket statement but it's the truth.
The absolute WORST cloak users in this game?... The average Romulan player. Most don't even know they even have cloaks, much less understand what benefits cloaks do and the parameters for their effective use.
My Reman SCI Captain can configure her Warbird so that her Battle Cloak / Enhanced Battle Cloak grants:
+45% bonus damage from decloaking / "Ambush Bonus"
23 second "Ambush" duration
11 seconds before recloaking is possible
No attack pattern, no BOFF ability, no Captain ability has that kind of combination of power, duration, availability. And it can be configured into a Warbird easily, requiring only the proper combination of trait, trait qualities and sacrificing no console slot, no equipment slot, no weapon slot.
Fed & KDF can achieve the same damage bonus but not the same Ambush duration nor recloak timer.
DEVs ,If you want to sell the new defiant that we all agree it is way ,way under powered .Take the Quad Cannon and put it on the forward weapons slot of ship and make it nonremoveable .Then we would have a buyable 5-3 weapon ship that would not be OP. That a very good easy ship fix that would sell it,,,,,,hint hint,I would buy the defiant then...
So you're saying you can never ever innovate? Because the previous ship was a certain way then any new version must be just like it? They are asking people for 3000 zen for a ship that out of the gate is worse than the Phantom and Tac pilot ship and you're reasoning is because the old defiant was built this way the new one should be as well.
Isn't the official line from us supposed to be that "every new thing being better than the old thing is BAD for the game's balance?" (see. power creep)
What's wrong with staying roughly around the current balance point? A T6 Defiant is going to sell because it's a T6 defiant. It doesn't need to slap down all of the alternatives in addition to that.
Why not try for at least equally as the other 3000 zen T6 ships ,,,, The defiant t6 is equally to the t5 ,,so why buy it ?
Okay, I favor Romulan a lot when I play, so when i look at a fed ship and think "Man that is under powered" something is seriously wrong. The way they presented this highlights just how under powered this ship is compared to the others. if they had released it separately or with a pack that did not give such a easy comparison then this discussion would probably not be as big. When you say that cloak is not a big deal in PVE I have to laugh at you, it is. Especially battle cloak. Cloak is nice get the drop on the enemy for free, battle cloak is a get out of battle for free ticket, enhanced battle cloak is a get out of battle free and i get to heal while I do it ticket. These are major advantages I use all the time in PVE and PVP. (note: each of the later has all the advantages of the former for those who don't already know.) The Valiant Class has no advantages to make up for the deficiency presented here. Heck it with it's deficiencies it can't even stand against other fed T6 pilot ships. The console is the only reason to get this ship and it's is only usable on Tactical Escort variants, so really it's the only reason to have this ship in combat at all. I'm sorry but that console is not OP enough to make this the ship of choice.
This ship does need a buff, but i'll let those who know how fed ships better work out what would be a fair buff for it.
All this talk about cloaks is pointless. Cloaks aren´t even weighted when Cryptic figures out ships stats, They just add it on kdf and rom ships as freebies. In PVP they can be devastating, but in PVE they´re actually detrimental to use beyond the initial decloak boost.
Cloaks are no laughing matter. At the very least they give that initial extra punch. Battle Cloak / Enhanced Battle Cloaks are even more powerful because you can reapply that decloak bonus during combat.
Vast majority of players in PVE do not understand the value of cloaks, especially Battle Cloaks and I think the art of proper Enhanced Battle Cloak use is practically extinct in this playerbase. This is a dirty blanket statement but it's the truth.
The absolute WORST cloak users in this game?... The average Romulan player. Most don't even know they even have cloaks, much less understand what benefits cloaks do and the parameters for their effective use.
My Reman SCI Captain can configure her Warbird so that her Battle Cloak / Enhanced Battle Cloak grants:
+45% bonus damage from decloaking / "Ambush Bonus"
23 second "Ambush" duration
11 seconds before recloaking is possible
No attack pattern, no BOFF ability, no Captain ability has that kind of combination of power, duration, availability. And it can be configured into a Warbird easily, requiring only the proper combination of trait, trait qualities and sacrificing no console slot, no equipment slot, no weapon slot.
Fed & KDF can achieve the same damage bonus but not the same Ambush duration nor recloak timer.
My comments about cloak not being terribly useful were made in reference to PvE, when PvP was still a thing rom cloaks were terrifying and incredibly infuriating if you were not prepared for the spike. Of course, if you had a healer and lived then threw a tractor or CPB or any number of other things you could usually take down the battlecloaker. Then came the days when it was all up to RSP and/or FBP to keep you alive, at least until the spikes were such that you could get popped while still having shields up and nearly full. But then, if there was more than one rom on your tail things usually didn´t work out too well for you. I was in matches were I was the only non romulan. In all fairness, it was always because people saw too many roms on the other side and just left, not wanting to bother with it. As time passed and we got further away from the player rom launch this was an occurrence that happened more and more often. As might be surmised PvP participation nosedived not long after. As to the question of why the roms were made so OP, I believe the reasons are many but ultimately boil down to promoting ship sales.
You´re right about the average rom player though, I rarely see anyone cloak after combat starts in the PvE queus. Looking at the stats the warbirds are a little less durable than comparable fed ships but not enough to make cloaking a necessity. Certainly, its nowhere near the gulf in durability between a BOP and a fedscort. They also get the best boffs in the game. Correct me if i´m mistaken as its been a while, but can´t rom players get boffs that have both the defence and crit bonuses? Embassy boffs are limited to one or the other; again, likely a planned inferiority to promote rom playership and warbird sales. Add to that the singularity core powers and I don´t think the average rom player feels the "need" to use cloak much at all. And then of course, it seems like 90% of rom players are flying a FAW DBB Scimitar that can get along fine without needing to cloak anyway.
Personally, i didn´t care for the cloaking playstyle at all and I´ve assumed the average rom player doesn´t either. Imagine how much more popular rogue type characters would be in games if they could keep their high DPS, without needing to sneak around all the time, while also not being glass cannons and you can see why the roms appeal to players, even if they do not like the cloaking playstyle. I realize the irony but Cryptic made them a little or a lot OP so folks have a lot of leeway in how they play them. Could be wrong on that, but its what it seems like. See, to the average rom cloaking is a nice fluff bonus not worth looking into. As many love to say about the mediocre Valiant, "its good enough for them to play with" and "it doesn´t need to be maximized to be fun", I think those same concepts apply here. This is why I consider cloaking to be of little utility in PvE, not necessarily beause it can´t be useful, but because it will never be used in large numbers. Rom warbirds just make cloaking an unneeded burden to the average player.
O see anti power creep .... you ll see defiant ,promeathus ,and akira T6 ,30$ ,Right next to the bad ship sales .No one wants a underpowerd ship we want equal footing and cool ship we can build into a winner,
In Star Trek there are rules. But they only apply to the Federation, everyone else can do whatever they want. Its part of Gene´s idiotic legacy, the Federation has to be so above reproach as to be willfully stupid. Part of it is also to make the main cast appear so far above everyone else as to be moral paragons. Its why Starfleet is generally useless unless its the main cast and their ship.
It's not part of an idiotic legacy, it's an important symbol of a franchise describing a fiction universe that is to inspire hope for our future despite all the pettiness, shortcomings, flaws and evil we see in ourselves now.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
In Star Trek there are rules. But they only apply to the Federation, everyone else can do whatever they want. Its part of Gene´s idiotic legacy, the Federation has to be so above reproach as to be willfully stupid. Part of it is also to make the main cast appear so far above everyone else as to be moral paragons. Its why Starfleet is generally useless unless its the main cast and their ship.
It's not part of an idiotic legacy, it's an important symbol of a franchise describing a fiction universe that is to inspire hope for our future despite all the pettiness, shortcomings, flaws and evil we see in ourselves now.
indeed, this is why the Star Trek franchise is very important, because the trek universe shows that it is possible to follow a different path than, simply follow the easy path of violence, crimes, etc
In Star Trek there are rules. But they only apply to the Federation, everyone else can do whatever they want. Its part of Gene´s idiotic legacy, the Federation has to be so above reproach as to be willfully stupid. Part of it is also to make the main cast appear so far above everyone else as to be moral paragons. Its why Starfleet is generally useless unless its the main cast and their ship.
Fed is powerful enough to have war goals beyond mere survival most of the time, and it's not interested in outright conquest. For a power like that, even from standpoint of cold-blooded machiavellianism, few things are more useful than reputation for benevolence and (mostly) honest dealing, and few things more dangerous as being seen as someone who would throw any rule or agreement under the bus for 0.1% more of an advantage... Doing that never got anyone very far for very long, either in RL or in Trek.
There's word that there's a reworking going on. How much benefit it has for the Valiant/Kor remains to be seen. We might yet get a battlecloak set bonus for the Valiant and pho-torps for the Kor yet.
LOL, Feds still angry about their unrealistic expectations that they're demanding the B'Rel shouldn't get an Enhanced Battle Cloak. THE B'REL OF ALL THINGS!
You guys keep thrashing around wildly in the water. It's entertaining to watch.
The Romulans and Klingons spend their time making popcorn, to watch the Feds spend their time making demands
I'll say it again - nothing about the T6 Defiant's stats should have been a surprise to anyone.
I bought the T6 Kor BOP last night. Suited it up and took it out into space. The battle cloak in PVE is useless. Only lets you fire torpedoes which are generally kinetic damage anyway and if the target is shielded do minimal, if any, damage. The exception to this would be if you used the Anti-Proton based torpedo. That might have some impact. But to remain battle-cloaked the whole time to try and eliminate enemies like this would take too long for it to be practical.
I bought the T6 Kor BOP last night. Suited it up andtook it out into space. The battle cloak in PVE is useless. Only lets you fire torpedoes which are generally kinetic damage anyway and if the target is shielded do minimal, if any, damage. The exception to this would be if you used the Anti-Proton based torpedo. That might have some impact. But to remain battle-cloaked the whole time to try and eliminate enemies like this would take to long for it to be practical.
like with most things you build for it. and don't forget you can use some sci powers. hit with a good trop spread and grav well you can do alot, granted kor is not the best boat for partgen.
and it works fine as a normal bop.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
indeed, this is why the Star Trek franchise is very important, because the trek universe shows that it is possible to follow a different path than, simply follow the easy path of violence, crimes, etc
a world without money, damn' I'm in.
Gold-pressed latinum. I think the whole "world without money" was only really a thing in Star Trek IV right? It's been mentioned here and there after that but there's also all kinds of interstellar commerce going on with currency exchanged.
There's word that there's a reworking going on. How much benefit it has for the Valiant/Kor remains to be seen. We might yet get a battlecloak set bonus for the Valiant and pho-torps for the Kor yet.
I'd rather see a set bonus based on the quad cannons. Battlecloak might be sort of useful but it was its cannons that were iconic.
I'd rather see a set bonus based on the quad cannons. Battlecloak might be sort of useful but it was its cannons that were iconic.
They'll probably do neither.
I agree that a quad based set bonus would be more appropriate, I also agree that we are unlikely to see it. I wonder why now though? Is the Valiant not selling? It seems weird to me that they´d look at anything post release and make changes to it.
Comments
I guess the United States is cowardly and has no honor because we use advanced stealth technology.
*eye roll*
There are no rules in war so get over yourself.
In Star Trek there are rules. But they only apply to the Federation, everyone else can do whatever they want. Its part of Gene´s idiotic legacy, the Federation has to be so above reproach as to be willfully stupid. Part of it is also to make the main cast appear so far above everyone else as to be moral paragons. Its why Starfleet is generally useless unless its the main cast and their ship.
An extra slot for the Kor and Malem would also be nice. Somehow I doubt they're going to go for that type of change. They don't change much from the layout they had much too often. If it was 4/3 at T5, it will be 4/3 at T6. And if (and I hope that day NEVER comes) it comes to a T7, each ship that was a remake of one before, will have the same amount of weapons slot after.
It kind of is weighted at times; it's one of the reasons why the Romulan Command ships don't get any Cruiser abilities. Due to them being able to Battle Cloak while the KDF Command ships could only normal cloak (and the Fed ships could not even cloak).
I'm hoping they just give the Defiant a 2-pc bonus to cannons and torps and call it a day, and move on to more important things. They've already made some pretty good money, judging by the number of them I've seen across Red Alerts and queues (even if most of those players only got them for the trait).
Actually there are. They are called Geneva Conventions.
Which are followed only when embedded reporters are there to get in the way of effective military operations.
-Dedication plaque of the Federation Starship U.S.S. Merkava
Cloaks are no laughing matter. At the very least they give that initial extra punch. Battle Cloak / Enhanced Battle Cloaks are even more powerful because you can reapply that decloak bonus during combat.
Vast majority of players in PVE do not understand the value of cloaks, especially Battle Cloaks and I think the art of proper Enhanced Battle Cloak use is practically extinct in this playerbase. This is a dirty blanket statement but it's the truth.
The absolute WORST cloak users in this game?... The average Romulan player. Most don't even know they even have cloaks, much less understand what benefits cloaks do and the parameters for their effective use.
My Reman SCI Captain can configure her Warbird so that her Battle Cloak / Enhanced Battle Cloak grants:
+45% bonus damage from decloaking / "Ambush Bonus"
23 second "Ambush" duration
11 seconds before recloaking is possible
No attack pattern, no BOFF ability, no Captain ability has that kind of combination of power, duration, availability. And it can be configured into a Warbird easily, requiring only the proper combination of trait, trait qualities and sacrificing no console slot, no equipment slot, no weapon slot.
Fed & KDF can achieve the same damage bonus but not the same Ambush duration nor recloak timer.
Why not try for at least equally as the other 3000 zen T6 ships ,,,, The defiant t6 is equally to the t5 ,,so why buy it ?
This ship does need a buff, but i'll let those who know how fed ships better work out what would be a fair buff for it.
My comments about cloak not being terribly useful were made in reference to PvE, when PvP was still a thing rom cloaks were terrifying and incredibly infuriating if you were not prepared for the spike. Of course, if you had a healer and lived then threw a tractor or CPB or any number of other things you could usually take down the battlecloaker. Then came the days when it was all up to RSP and/or FBP to keep you alive, at least until the spikes were such that you could get popped while still having shields up and nearly full. But then, if there was more than one rom on your tail things usually didn´t work out too well for you. I was in matches were I was the only non romulan. In all fairness, it was always because people saw too many roms on the other side and just left, not wanting to bother with it. As time passed and we got further away from the player rom launch this was an occurrence that happened more and more often. As might be surmised PvP participation nosedived not long after. As to the question of why the roms were made so OP, I believe the reasons are many but ultimately boil down to promoting ship sales.
You´re right about the average rom player though, I rarely see anyone cloak after combat starts in the PvE queus. Looking at the stats the warbirds are a little less durable than comparable fed ships but not enough to make cloaking a necessity. Certainly, its nowhere near the gulf in durability between a BOP and a fedscort. They also get the best boffs in the game. Correct me if i´m mistaken as its been a while, but can´t rom players get boffs that have both the defence and crit bonuses? Embassy boffs are limited to one or the other; again, likely a planned inferiority to promote rom playership and warbird sales. Add to that the singularity core powers and I don´t think the average rom player feels the "need" to use cloak much at all. And then of course, it seems like 90% of rom players are flying a FAW DBB Scimitar that can get along fine without needing to cloak anyway.
Personally, i didn´t care for the cloaking playstyle at all and I´ve assumed the average rom player doesn´t either. Imagine how much more popular rogue type characters would be in games if they could keep their high DPS, without needing to sneak around all the time, while also not being glass cannons and you can see why the roms appeal to players, even if they do not like the cloaking playstyle. I realize the irony but Cryptic made them a little or a lot OP so folks have a lot of leeway in how they play them. Could be wrong on that, but its what it seems like. See, to the average rom cloaking is a nice fluff bonus not worth looking into. As many love to say about the mediocre Valiant, "its good enough for them to play with" and "it doesn´t need to be maximized to be fun", I think those same concepts apply here. This is why I consider cloaking to be of little utility in PvE, not necessarily beause it can´t be useful, but because it will never be used in large numbers. Rom warbirds just make cloaking an unneeded burden to the average player.
indeed, this is why the Star Trek franchise is very important, because the trek universe shows that it is possible to follow a different path than, simply follow the easy path of violence, crimes, etc
a world without money, damn' I'm in.
Fed is powerful enough to have war goals beyond mere survival most of the time, and it's not interested in outright conquest. For a power like that, even from standpoint of cold-blooded machiavellianism, few things are more useful than reputation for benevolence and (mostly) honest dealing, and few things more dangerous as being seen as someone who would throw any rule or agreement under the bus for 0.1% more of an advantage... Doing that never got anyone very far for very long, either in RL or in Trek.
Ah! the popcorn is done!
You bring the bloodwine, and I'm fully-stocked with ale. This seems to be going on for a while now.
like with most things you build for it. and don't forget you can use some sci powers. hit with a good trop spread and grav well you can do alot, granted kor is not the best boat for partgen.
and it works fine as a normal bop.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Could you please make your points without pretending to speak for everybody else? Because you don't, as this discussion already shows.
And may continue, pending the improvements they do make to the Valiant/Kor
I may even want to put some more popcorn in the microwave
Gold-pressed latinum. I think the whole "world without money" was only really a thing in Star Trek IV right? It's been mentioned here and there after that but there's also all kinds of interstellar commerce going on with currency exchanged.
I'd rather see a set bonus based on the quad cannons. Battlecloak might be sort of useful but it was its cannons that were iconic.
They'll probably do neither.
I agree that a quad based set bonus would be more appropriate, I also agree that we are unlikely to see it. I wonder why now though? Is the Valiant not selling? It seems weird to me that they´d look at anything post release and make changes to it.
If you believe otherwise you are a moron and destined to be exterminated.