test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

T6 Defiant=Total Fail

1679111214

Comments

  • goodscotchgoodscotch Member Posts: 1,680 Arc User
    There's a part of me that's glad to see that these ships are a bit anemic compared to many players' expectations. Everyone complains about power creep and then when they release a new version of an old ship and it isn't bristling with power and bells and whistles, they complain.

    This thread made me appreciate my T5-U K'tinga more.
    klingon-bridge.jpg




  • chipg7chipg7 Member Posts: 1,577 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    goodscotch wrote: »
    There's a part of me that's glad to see that these ships are a bit anemic compared to many players' expectations. Everyone complains about power creep and then when they release a new version of an old ship and it isn't bristling with power and bells and whistles, they complain.

    This thread made me appreciate my T5-U K'tinga more.

    Same. Still loving some of my T5U's. My Fed flies an Aventine with little-to-no problem.

    I'm continuously thankful that the Devs are doing exactly what they said in the beginning - releasing T6 ships as mere incremental updates for the most part. Sure the T6 ships are 'better,' but they're in no way better enough to put T5U - or even flat T5 - out of commission anytime soon.
  • mosul33mosul33 Member Posts: 836 Arc User
    chipg7 wrote: »
    Only the Intel ships had the integrated cloak. That's it. Everything else has been a console.

    Ands Feds don't get a battlecloak.

    What is so hard to understand about this concept???

    Then if feds dont get a battlecloak the klingons should NOT get an Enhanced Battlecloak. Its that a concept so hard to undertand???

    You mentioned Intel ship. How they got balanced? Lets look at Elipse vs Qib. A fed cruiser wich was given cannons mount ability (even if meta doenst support much this, lets just call it an advantage) and standard cloak. To balance, the kdf got a bit more stats (+turn, + hull...) and upgraded the standard cloak to battlecloak, basicly a one step/tier upgrade over the fed one.
    This was used for the entire fleet of ships on both fed and kdf side.

    There is the majority of fed ships without a cloak... lets call it Tier 0 cloak.
    The majority of klingon ships have a standard cloak... lets call it Tier 1 cloak.

    Then we have only a few fed ships with standard cloak or Tier 1 cloak.
    On klingon side there are only a few kdf ships with battlecloak wich lets call it Tier 2 cloak.

    Then you have ONLY ONE ship on klingon side with Tier 3 cloak aka Enhanced battlecloak.
    But there isnt a fed counterpart with Tier 2 cloak (battlecloak) that balances that. And the defiant, with a 3 piece console battlecloak, similar to the voth battlecloak, wouldve been best candidate as ONLY ONE ship to match the kdf line.

    Thats my point: the fed side is 2 "Tiers" back or steps back from kdf cloaks... Becouse if the defiant cant have a battlecloak, whatever becouse of canon cuz it wasnt mention getting another in the show... then neither the kdf cant have enhanced battlecloak... becouse gameplay wise its allready out of balance since its 2 tiers/steps up, not 1, and from canon standpoint view there isnt any valid reason since that ship was lost long time ago and nowhere was mentioned in the show the klingons made another or even pursue that technology...

    You can realise that even if you look at the 3 pack: 2 ships with enhanced battlecloak yet only one with a potato standard cloak, for wich the 2pc set is useless anyway...
  • kayajaykayajay Member Posts: 1,990 Arc User
    Only "The Defiant" ever had a battle cloak. It was Romulan, so would behave like a battle cloak, but even the rebranded Sao Paulo didn't have a cloak, because the Defiant CLASS doesn't come with them as standard. The Defiant was leant the cloak by the Romulans, only for use in the Gamma Quadrant, but in return for intelligence about the Dominion...Sisko abused it by using it in the Alpha Quadrant, but the cloak wasn't made by Starfleet and I'm not sure even the Klingons would give cloaking devices away to the Federation!
  • bunansabunansa Member Posts: 928 Arc User
    kyrrok wrote: »
    bunansa wrote: »
    Stealth Fighter (2 pieces)

    Set Bonuses
    •Overcloaked (2 pc) – Passive ◦Reduces the recharge time on Cloak

    •Critical Ambush (2 pc) – Passive ◦Grants a bonus to Critical Hit Chance and Critical Severity for a short time after exiting cloak


    that's my beef and i'm sticking to it. This has no real reason to be the set for the Defiant since its a normal cloak, and as mentioned about a dozen other times, quad cannons should be a 3 piece bonus..

    it boggles my mind so much to see so many disgusted at the idea some are voicing their opinions about the ship and why we are disgruntled with it, when just a few days ago in the redit forums, the devs listened and changed the photon torpedo console into a quantum console... so yes, if its argued well enough such as my beef above about the set bonus the developers should go back and redo it, they would get a sell from me if the bonus made any sense.

    Actually yours is among the more civil disagreements I find with the upcoming defiant. In truth, they could have done better with the Defiant's bonus. It's a big difference between my preference of a battlecloak as a set bonus, and others just wanting it automatic. Some will buy it, others won't. I don't even look at it as a boycott situation regarding those among the latter. I wouldn't go on a boycott of a Gorn/Ha'nom science ship, I simply just wont buy one. I still don't even know that I'm getting this pack myself. There's a difference between wanting a decent ship (as well as different standards of decent ship) and wanting a god-ship. What does God want with a starship anyway? :D

    Thanks :smile:

    I will keep pushing my argument over the others, no point asking for all the bells and whistles at this juncture, the cat is out of the bag in an hour, I just want the Developers to do a serious rethink on the set console bonus for the new defiant since it makes no since in its current form and it needs the quad cannons added in. The t-6 tvaro managed a totally different bonus then the defiant and brel versions and at 3 pieces to boot...So I expect some kind of answer to be honest as to why they figured the defiant should only be 2 piece bonus and absolutely not helping the ship out.
    tumblr_ndmkqm59J31r5ynioo2_r2_500.gif

  • goodscotchgoodscotch Member Posts: 1,680 Arc User
    mosul33 wrote: »
    chipg7 wrote: »
    Only the Intel ships had the integrated cloak. That's it. Everything else has been a console.

    Ands Feds don't get a battlecloak.

    What is so hard to understand about this concept???

    Then if feds dont get a battlecloak the klingons should NOT get an Enhanced Battlecloak. Its that a concept so hard to undertand???

    I cut most of your post out. The Klingons and Romulans are factions/races whose ships rely heavily on cloaking technology. The Federation's ships do not rely heavily on that technology...nor do the vast majority have it on board...it just isn't their thing. The Federation doesn't rely on subterfuge and surprise attacks...it's not their style so to speak. The Defiant is an exception to that rule. It's design went out of the Federation norm and was put on the drawing board to address a specific threat. A cloak would be useful to stay hidden from an enemy that's overwhelmingly powerful and would potentially pounce on you if your vessel was detected...the Borg.

    You think this T6 Defiant ship should have the same cloaking abilities as two races whose entire fleets regularly employ cloaking technology. The fact that a Federation ship has a cloak is an anomaly. Why should this T6 Defiant cloak be on par with Klingon and Romulan vessels who regularly employ it and whose engineers pursue it as a technology that all of their ships have?

    This Defiant is a great ship. And for a Federation ship to have any cloak at all makes it unique in a Fleet of Federation ships that don't have/employ that technology.
    klingon-bridge.jpg




  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    nikephorus wrote: »
    which can make the ship's invincible.

    Just that part is so, so wrong. The point of an escort is not to be able to take infinite amount of damage, it's to dish out damage.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    goodscotch wrote: »
    mosul33 wrote: »
    chipg7 wrote: »
    Only the Intel ships had the integrated cloak. That's it. Everything else has been a console.

    Ands Feds don't get a battlecloak.

    What is so hard to understand about this concept???

    Then if feds dont get a battlecloak the klingons should NOT get an Enhanced Battlecloak. Its that a concept so hard to undertand???

    I cut most of your post out. The Klingons and Romulans are factions/races whose ships rely heavily on cloaking technology. The Federation's ships do not rely heavily on that technology...nor do the vast majority have it on board...it just isn't their thing. The Federation doesn't rely on subterfuge and surprise attacks...it's not their style so to speak. The Defiant is an exception to that rule. It's design went out of the Federation norm and was put on the drawing board to address a specific threat. A cloak would be useful to stay hidden from an enemy that's overwhelmingly powerful and would potentially pounce on you if your vessel was detected...the Borg.
    And the Defiant was still not build with cloaking tech in mind. The cloak was basically an "after-market" extension and provided by the Romulans.

    Cloak against the Borg might be useful. Provided they don't see right through it...

    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • alcyoneserenealcyoneserene Member Posts: 2,412 Arc User
    mosul33 wrote: »
    Thats my point: the fed side is 2 "Tiers" back or steps back from kdf cloaks... Becouse if the defiant cant have a battlecloak, whatever becouse of canon cuz it wasnt mention getting another in the show... then neither the kdf cant have enhanced battlecloak... becouse gameplay wise its allready out of balance since its 2 tiers/steps up, not 1, and from canon standpoint view there isnt any valid reason since that ship was lost long time ago and nowhere was mentioned in the show the klingons made another or even pursue that technology...

    The assessment of faction differences I think is spot on. But also, the console cloak and now integrated cloak of intels does do its purpose of demonstrating the value of it, so the next step up is making a KDF character. The final step that follows is a Rom faction character where power level management, singularity cores, and singularity abilities come into play, nevermind the most powerful ships. Battle cloaks and enhanced battle cloaks (on non-raider flanking ships, Faeht, T'Varo) aren't a feature up as much as the latter abilities and elements.

    KDF needs a BoP (B'rel) with enhanced battle cloak because it gives KDF something completely unique, as well as other Raider BoP that the Feds can sample in the Aquarius. Feds is the most popular and will always be because they get the many ships seen on the shows/movies, plus re-living it from that perspective since ST for the most part is so very Fed-centric. So playing Fed doesn't need more of an incentive, but playing KDF or Rom does.

    I agree the 2 piece bonus is as bad as it gets for the new Defiant unless the decloak bonuses are really powerful. Maybe they will be. That we don't know. My Phantom's integrated cloak does indeed come online out of battle fast enough, and having it be any faster wouldn't serve much purpose.

    About the Defiant being the recipient of battle cloak, which won't happen for the reasons already mentioned, I'll also say the logical choice for it, which Defiant fans* won't like to hear, is the Phantom, because it is a ship made for stealth that sacrifices the tiny bit of tankiness for speed which translates into +defense and intel theme as a whole.

    (*I'm buying the new Defiant too and using it just like the other ships, so to the metrics I'm as much as a fan as any can be, and maybe its canon looks will grow on me too, or the new shape will look real great in game. I'm also one of few where space barbie does matter - the pilot warbirds are fun and effective but as some mentioned they're a rare sight in game vs Hestias with MVAM, and the birds' utterly terrible designs were enough for me to hop on the Hesta's premium price tag of 2 ships even after waiting so long without a Prometheus in anticipation of a T6 variant.)
    Y945Yzx.jpg
    Devs: Provide the option to Turn OFF full screen flashes from enemy ship explosions
    · ♥ · ◦.¸¸. ◦'¯`·. (Ɏ) V A N U _ S O V E R E I G N T Y (Ɏ) .·´¯'◦.¸¸. ◦ · ♡ ·
    «» \▼/ T E R R A N ¦ R E P U B L I C \▼/ «»
    ﴾﴿ ₪ṩ ||| N A N I T E S Y S T E M S : B L A C K | O P S ||| ₪ṩ ﴾﴿
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    LOL, Feds still angry about their unrealistic expectations that they're demanding the B'Rel shouldn't get an Enhanced Battle Cloak. THE B'REL OF ALL THINGS!

    :D

    You guys keep thrashing around wildly in the water. It's entertaining to watch.
    XzRTofz.gif
  • chastity1337chastity1337 Member Posts: 1,606 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    brakkenn wrote: »
    They won't get my money now and I'm betting alot of people were waiting to see if it had any of those features before buying. Why pay 30 bucks for an inferior ship wrapped in a Defiant skin?

    Because, in the immortal words of P.T. Barnum, "there's a sucker born every minute".

  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,257 Arc User
    LOL, Feds still angry about their unrealistic expectations that they're demanding the B'Rel shouldn't get an Enhanced Battle Cloak. THE B'REL OF ALL THINGS!

    :D

    You guys keep thrashing around wildly in the water. It's entertaining to watch.

    Don't want the battlecloak, I want the PHASE CLOAK B)
    afMSv4g.jpg
    Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!

    http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
  • goodscotchgoodscotch Member Posts: 1,680 Arc User
    goodscotch wrote: »
    And the Defiant was still not build with cloaking tech in mind. The cloak was basically an "after-market" extension and provided by the Romulans.

    Cloak against the Borg might be useful. Provided they don't see right through it...

    More good info! They aftermarketed it on. But again, two folks have posted that it didn't even really start out with a cloak, but was given one after the fact. So, this T6 version should get a cloak that has enhanced capabilities because...a Klingon and Romulan ship have that type of cloak?

    Cloaking isn't the Federation's gig. Thanks to those who pointed out that the Defiant's cloak was freely given by the Romulans...after the fact. A battle cloak doesn't fit the Federation's modus operandi.
    klingon-bridge.jpg




  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,257 Arc User
    Ok again I'm just gonna go to the white elephant in the room. IF you want to go by what the Federation built as a cloak, I want the phase cloak off the Pegasus.

    I think that's enough Bells and whistles for everyone. And ya can't say they didn't build it themselves and or it didn't work. Right?

    ;)
    afMSv4g.jpg
    Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!

    http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
  • semalda226semalda226 Member Posts: 1,994 Arc User
    I've been stuck with my R'Mor since LoR. It's now a T5-U and I still can't get anything better mainly since I can't afford a 900M Annorax
    tumblr_mxl2nyOKII1rizambo1_500.png

  • taylor1701dtaylor1701d Member Posts: 3,099 Arc User
    No species with honour would slink around under the cover of cloak anyway.
    And only a coward would hide behind one, and use it to ambush the noble.

    Feds don't need cloak, and it has no place within the honourable Federation. Where we show our faces to our enemies.
    [img][/img]OD5urLn.jpg
  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,257 Arc User
    No species with honour would slink around under the cover of cloak anyway.
    And only a coward would hide behind one, and use it to ambush the noble.

    Feds don't need cloak, and it has no place within the honourable Federation. Where we show our faces to our enemies.

    My phantom says otherwise. :D
    afMSv4g.jpg
    Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!

    http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
  • taylor1701dtaylor1701d Member Posts: 3,099 Arc User
    talonxv wrote: »
    No species with honour would slink around under the cover of cloak anyway.
    And only a coward would hide behind one, and use it to ambush the noble.

    Feds don't need cloak, and it has no place within the honourable Federation. Where we show our faces to our enemies.

    My phantom says otherwise. :D

    I was being a little sarcastic. I got one as well - There goes my honour.
    [img][/img]OD5urLn.jpg
  • chastity1337chastity1337 Member Posts: 1,606 Arc User
    No species with honour would slink around under the cover of cloak anyway.
    And only a coward would hide behind one, and use it to ambush the noble.

    Feds don't need cloak, and it has no place within the honourable Federation. Where we show our faces to our enemies.
    <KDF>
    Pfffft! Talk to us about honor when we're teabagging your smoking corpse.
    </KDF>




    (in-game only, of course!)
  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,257 Arc User
    talonxv wrote: »
    No species with honour would slink around under the cover of cloak anyway.
    And only a coward would hide behind one, and use it to ambush the noble.

    Feds don't need cloak, and it has no place within the honourable Federation. Where we show our faces to our enemies.

    My phantom says otherwise. :D

    I was being a little sarcastic. I got one as well - There goes my honour.

    Well as it was said in the "Longest Day." "Only two types of people gonna stay on this beach. Those that are dead, and those that are gonna be dead!"

    I'd rather be un noticed and alive than dead.
    afMSv4g.jpg
    Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!

    http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
  • taylor1701dtaylor1701d Member Posts: 3,099 Arc User
    No species with honour would slink around under the cover of cloak anyway.
    And only a coward would hide behind one, and use it to ambush the noble.

    Feds don't need cloak, and it has no place within the honourable Federation. Where we show our faces to our enemies.
    <KDF>
    Pfffft! Talk to us about honor when we're teabagging your smoking corpse.
    </KDF>




    (in-game only, of course!)

    Who goes around teabagging dead corpses ?
    The dishounorable kind.

    :wink:
    :smiley:

    But I like your enthusiasm.

    [img][/img]OD5urLn.jpg
  • skyranger1414skyranger1414 Member Posts: 1,785 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    All this talk about cloaks is pointless. Cloaks aren´t even weighted when Cryptic figures out ships stats, They just add it on kdf and rom ships as freebies. In PVP they can be devastating, but in PVE they´re actually detrimental to use beyond the initial decloak boost.
  • ssbn655ssbn655 Member Posts: 1,894 Arc User
    nikephorus wrote: »
    Honestly, all escorts should have gotten the pilot abilities. As it is right now no escorts match the pilot ships. It's basically pointless to get those other escorts unless you're a fan any really like the way they look.

    Seriously? Ok gee with pilot skill tree you get the rock and roll pretty much the same thing pilot ships have and with the terran rep system you get the micro torps that pilot escorts have so whats your beef? Oh yean escorts are less squishy then the pilot ships.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    ssbn655 wrote: »
    nikephorus wrote: »
    Honestly, all escorts should have gotten the pilot abilities. As it is right now no escorts match the pilot ships. It's basically pointless to get those other escorts unless you're a fan any really like the way they look.

    Seriously? Ok gee with pilot skill tree you get the rock and roll pretty much the same thing pilot ships have and with the terran rep system you get the micro torps that pilot escorts have so whats your beef? Oh yean escorts are less squishy then the pilot ships.

    Rock & Roll is very different from what the Pilot ships have. Sure, it might give a short damage immunity, but it doesn't allow you to rapidly reposition your ship. And it doesn't look anywhere close as cool.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • chipg7chipg7 Member Posts: 1,577 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    LOL, Feds still angry about their unrealistic expectations that they're demanding the B'Rel shouldn't get an Enhanced Battle Cloak. THE B'REL OF ALL THINGS!

    :D

    You guys keep thrashing around wildly in the water. It's entertaining to watch.

    The Romulans and Klingons spend their time making popcorn, to watch the Feds spend their time making demands :tongue:

    I'll say it again - nothing about the T6 Defiant's stats should have been a surprise to anyone.
  • trillbuffettrillbuffet Member Posts: 861 Arc User
    Yeah you can't bend over any further to appease fed players who actually care about pvp. First off pvp died a long time ago so its not even existent. On the other hand over time they have given these feds tons and tons of ways to counter the b'rel but its still not enough for them. The enhanced battle cloak itself is poorly designed to the point that if it shoots at anything its just a defenseless target gift wrapped without having to use any tactics although once in awhile they will do something where it might be fun to play b'rel for a week or so and then they will nerf whatever advantage it had even in pve lol.

    Only way to get them to change is vote with your wallet.
  • kayajaykayajay Member Posts: 1,990 Arc User
    talonxv wrote: »
    LOL, Feds still angry about their unrealistic expectations that they're demanding the B'Rel shouldn't get an Enhanced Battle Cloak. THE B'REL OF ALL THINGS!

    :D

    You guys keep thrashing around wildly in the water. It's entertaining to watch.

    Don't want the battlecloak, I want the PHASE CLOAK B)

    Imagine if in Voyager's "Basics", they'd used that.

    The convention only agreed not to develop cloaking technology, the Pegasus and that admiral already had. The Federation agreed not to use cloaking technology, but for Voyager...I'm sure designs for the phasing cloak were in its computer and being in the Delta Quadrant, who would have given a flying proverbial?
Sign In or Register to comment.