But now we get this...Hey Johny lets play the iconian arc you know the story cryptic has been preparing us for 5 years almost all mission leading to this moment. Sure says Johny let me bring my Herald Quas Flight Deck Cruiser or my Herald Baltim Heavy Raider or my Herald Vonph Dreadnought Carrier....WAIT WHAT ? You just thrown the mystery, the fear and the soul of iconians and herlads down the toilet. Now they are just some generic cookie cutter enemy, everyone can fly their ships now...even a drunk klingon who had to much blood wine can.
Because fighting Tholians from the bridge of your Widow didn't break immersion
or fighting Elachi with your Monbosh/S'golth didn't break immersion
or fighting Dominion from your Jem'hadar Dreadnought/JHSS didn't break immersion
or fighting Voth from your Bastion/Bulwark didn't break immersion
or fighting Breen from your Theln/Grett/Brekt didn't break immersion
And because your Starfleet/KDF/RR character "exploring" the TRIBBLE outta everyone you meet in that Krenim Imperium warship didn't break immersion
Yeah, it is kind of sad. Makes STO feel more an more like an arcade game than ever. It would have been better to include the tech rather than the actual ships. Much like they did with the Voth ships. That made more sense.
And THIS my friends, is a sensible answer. Stick with Tech, let faction ships get mutated, modified even with parts and visual enhancements (not just skins) reminiscent of the various races (Voth, Undine, Iconian, etc etc). Instead of a Voth ship, how about special "Voth Nacelles" (lockbox item) that you could use instead? Just an example.
Adding parts to ships out of boxes would be fully cool but I don't think the artists will have the time and energy for that so they just do one big ship?
One interesting point that people may have missed is that the ships used by the Heralds are NOT the best tech the Iconians have. Instead these ships were built using the best tech that the Iconians felt that the Heralds could be trusted with.
As a ship collector, I'm actually ecstatic that I have the chance to acquire these ships. Iconian tech would be the crowning jewel in any collection, honestly.
And while I probably will want to fly them around, probably unlock their masteries and whatnot, I know eventually, I'll be keener on flying one of my mainstay faction-specific ships. Maybe have an alternate loadout for them that uses Iconian weaponry and consoles, heh.
What I'm just as thrilled about getting, though, and will probably see more consistent use out of me, are the new ground equipment. The modules, the staff weapons, the outfits..... man, this was a long time coming for me.
I do have my own immersion to consider, and yes even the immersion of others. I can only excuse the use of Iconian ships for so long before I'd start to feel a little silly.
I know my reasoning is probably not the majority. And the fact that the Iconian ships have two specialization seats apiece to them will probably make them mainstays for many, many players. But at least for me, I know I'll more than likely keep going back to faction-specific ships in the long run.
Never thought of that, but it does make sense from a collectors perspective.
For me, when I play any toon, I tend to ignore the existence of other toons for story purposes, so yes, there's a lot of mess around spacedock and I'm sure some people get mad when I pull up in my Dromias, but the way I think, each of us have our own little "reality bubble." We're each our own little universe. I treat it a bit similarly when I write fanfic...though actually, with the toon that has the Dromias, in my story, he still officially flies a Prometheus-class ship and does not exactly captain the Dromias. (The reason I fly the Dromias in game is because unlike most people here, I suck at flying escorts. Badly. I rigged the Dromias into a quasi-sci, and I'm a lot happier with it than the Prometheus.)
Now, when it comes to immersion, my Cardassian has a Galor but as far as I'm concerned, because he's a dual-commissioned exchange officer, he has EVERY possible excuse to have access to that ship. It will be the same if a Cardassian uniform ever comes out...he has every right to that uniform.
True, immersion really does depend on the player and his view, so to each their own i guess and if your dromias suits your play style who am i to argue against it
(snip) But now we get this...Hey Johny lets play the iconian arc you know the story cryptic has been preparing us for 5 years almost all mission leading to this moment. Sure says Johny let me bring my Herald Quas Flight Deck Cruiser or my Herald Baltim Heavy Raider or my Herald Vonph Dreadnought Carrier....WAIT WHAT ? You just thrown the mystery, the fear and the soul of iconians and herlads down the toilet. Now they are just some generic cookie cutter enemy, everyone can fly their ships now...even a drunk klingon who had to much blood wine can. (snip)
This has been going on forever, including the Undine, Dominion, Tholian, Vaadwaur, Voth, Hirogen, and Elachi Lockboxes, and it is only now that you complain?
I think that Klingon isn't the only one who's had too much bloodwine.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
Look: it is perfectly fine for intelligent, telepathic living organisms to act as transportation and combat craft for creatures with whom their creators are fighting a war. Bioships are known for their tolerance and promotion of IDIC culture. What bothers me is that we cannot play an Undine character commanding a Bioship. And when we eventually do get playable Undine we'll have to wait two years for the game to incorporate costume unlocks for them.
(See, that's sarcasm. Did your sarcasm detector pick that up?)
Funny, with players flying Herald ships in sector space, the Heralds will have more presence on the sectors space maps than they ever did during the actual war.
Honestly, there never was immersion in STO from the beginning. Cryptic never took the steps to ensure a logically progressing world and storyline, it always was a free-for-all theme park with loose storyline missions in between. So anyone saying that these ships somehow break immersion has to accept that there never was immersion to begin with.
What I find pitiful, however, is that Cryptic doesn't even pay attention to the stuff they write themselves. Having Iconian starships and weapons casually and readily available, everything the writers now come up with as the next big thread is unbelievable as we now posses the ultimate technology that is undefeatable. Yes, the MU-nonsense and they defeaqted their Iconians but they still use the stock mirror starships and phasers instead of opening rifts and all of that so that's once again just a story bit existing in blogs, not the actual game, another point Cryptic repeatedly drops the ball with.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I don't really know what the fuss is about when it comes to immersion and "canon" things cause its a stupid video game that the developers never cared about keeping real to the source from the very first day so why would it be a big deal now?
I don't really know what the fuss is about when it comes to immersion and "canon" things cause its a stupid video game that the developers never cared about keeping real to the source from the very first day so why would it be a big deal now?
Because it is the only current Star Trek game and bearing the title "Star Trek Online" many players still mourn the expectations they had five years ago or new players might have coming here only to find it's not the game they were looking for. And then they still stick around, because it's the only current game...
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
But now we get this...Hey Johny lets play the iconian arc you know the story cryptic has been preparing us for 5 years almost all mission leading to this moment. Sure says Johny let me bring my Herald Quas Flight Deck Cruiser or my Herald Baltim Heavy Raider or my Herald Vonph Dreadnought Carrier....WAIT WHAT ? You just thrown the mystery, the fear and the soul of iconians and herlads down the toilet. Now they are just some generic cookie cutter enemy, everyone can fly their ships now...even a drunk klingon who had to much blood wine can.
Because fighting Tholians from the bridge of your Widow didn't break immersion
or fighting Elachi with your Monbosh/S'golth didn't break immersion
or fighting Dominion from your Jem'hadar Dreadnought/JHSS didn't break immersion
or fighting Voth from your Bastion/Bulwark didn't break immersion
or fighting Breen from your Theln/Grett/Brekt didn't break immersion
And because your Starfleet/KDF/RR character "exploring" the TRIBBLE outta everyone you meet in that Krenim Imperium warship didn't break immersion
It did so whats your point? Not my fault for complete lack of any lore or logical progression from crpytic. Thing is iconians with heralds are portrayed as the biggest baddest thread. Everything in mission leads to them, EVERYTHING... even your first officer who slips and faceplants on the console causing the selfdestruct...IT WAS ICONIANS FAULT... Take for instance the current message cryptic sent to us, telling us how 5 years lead to this one mission, one immersive mission called midnight...NOW FOR A LIMITED TIME YOU CAN immersive yourself with herald ships...the iconians wont know what hit them muahahahahah...whatever. Your mindset is like hey why are you scared and sad now that a murder happened in your vicinity...murders happen all the time...with that mindset what can we expect from the future of STO and their claim oF "EXPLORATION"...well i know SET PHASER TO KILL..lol i hope not.
[/quote]Tell that dude to get the heck up, the food is burning![/quote]
(snip) But now we get this...Hey Johny lets play the iconian arc you know the story cryptic has been preparing us for 5 years almost all mission leading to this moment. Sure says Johny let me bring my Herald Quas Flight Deck Cruiser or my Herald Baltim Heavy Raider or my Herald Vonph Dreadnought Carrier....WAIT WHAT ? You just thrown the mystery, the fear and the soul of iconians and herlads down the toilet. Now they are just some generic cookie cutter enemy, everyone can fly their ships now...even a drunk klingon who had to much blood wine can. (snip)
This has been going on forever, including the Undine, Dominion, Tholian, Vaadwaur, Voth, Hirogen, and Elachi Lockboxes, and it is only now that you complain?
I think that Klingon isn't the only one who's had too much bloodwine.
I dont drink bloodwine to weak, i only drink cider lol. As said before i complain now because of how big the iconians are portrayed...everyone has a limit (some have 5 beers some 10 and so on...), mine broke now... You know if you add TRIBBLE onto TRIBBLE you get...more TRIBBLE so why continue this bad practice...
mourning something that is like 5 years past isn't that dead horse really really nasty and stinky now? will it come back to life if you beat it savagely? immersion is gone, its time to get rid of the idea completely and move forward in a way that benefits the long life of this game
Also as far as kinky fantasies yes I like women in bikinis. its a guy thing, I think cryptic agrees or they would not have added them to the game. right?
Yeah, it is kind of sad. Makes STO feel more an more like an arcade game than ever. It would have been better to include the tech rather than the actual ships. Much like they did with the Voth ships. That made more sense.
And THIS my friends, is a sensible answer. Stick with Tech, let faction ships get mutated, modified even with parts and visual enhancements (not just skins) reminiscent of the various races (Voth, Undine, Iconian, etc etc). Instead of a Voth ship, how about special "Voth Nacelles" (lockbox item) that you could use instead? Just an example.
I dunno, daring to change the looks of iconic ships usually lands them in even more hot water than it does offering alien hardware.
Remember the fuss over that T6 Excelsior cruiser - even though the original skin was still an option plenty of people shed tears over it's facelift.
Yeah, it is kind of sad. Makes STO feel more an more like an arcade game than ever. It would have been better to include the tech rather than the actual ships. Much like they did with the Voth ships. That made more sense.
And THIS my friends, is a sensible answer. Stick with Tech, let faction ships get mutated, modified even with parts and visual enhancements (not just skins) reminiscent of the various races (Voth, Undine, Iconian, etc etc). Instead of a Voth ship, how about special "Voth Nacelles" (lockbox item) that you could use instead? Just an example.
I dunno, daring to change the looks of iconic ships usually lands them in even more hot water than it does offering alien hardware.
Remember the fuss over that T6 Excelsior cruiser - even though the original skin was still an option plenty of people shed tears over it's facelift.
or they complain it doesn't look like a *insert faction name* ship. remember when dyson ships came out? one of major complains was they did looked look totally alien ships. the fact that it took them a year to add faction textures didn't help.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
I don't really know what the fuss is about when it comes to immersion and "canon" things cause its a stupid video game that the developers never cared about keeping real to the source from the very first day so why would it be a big deal now?
Because it is the only current Star Trek game and bearing the title "Star Trek Online" many players still mourn the expectations they had five years ago or new players might have coming here only to find it's not the game they were looking for. And then they still stick around, because it's the only current game...
Not really sure what people were expecting in an MMO.... Immersion is pretty much at the bottom of the list I'd make.
So the next lock box ships are herald ones. Now to get something straight from the beginning i am totally fine with them being lock box ships. Cryptic needs to earn some money....sad truth is this game currently only stands because of the massive new ship spam sales else it would slowly decay... The thing is this new herald ships break the immersion, break the story and feel of star trek. Some say that already happened when you could fly undine and tholian ship...eh not really while totally alien to the alliance it wasn't so crowded with exotic ships and we could argue that iconians with heralds play a pivotal role in STO so these new ships have a bigger impact.
But now we get this...Hey Johny lets play the iconian arc you know the story cryptic has been preparing us for 5 years almost all mission leading to this moment. Sure says Johny let me bring my Herald Quas Flight Deck Cruiser or my Herald Baltim Heavy Raider or my Herald Vonph Dreadnought Carrier....WAIT WHAT ? You just thrown the mystery, the fear and the soul of iconians and herlads down the toilet. Now they are just some generic cookie cutter enemy, everyone can fly their ships now...even a drunk klingon who had to much blood wine can.
You could say ahhh this is nothing, it doesn't matter at all, but lets think deeper, a lot deeper..... You sure can like both space and ground combat like me but let me throw you out something, there are single and multi player games which have superior combat out there....but HEY ! why are you playing this game then...Simple because it has the star trek feel, the star trek mythos...flying iconic ships, relive the moments similar to the series.....And this lock box thing doesn't help that really. Whats next...a playable Vger...borg lock box.....OW NO. Imagine a scenario were an enlightened, kind federation captain (we will call him Johny again), flies to a colony in need of some supplies....IN A BORG CUBE causing a mass hysteria on the colony and he beams down and says, relax guys its just my new RAD cube check it out its shiny.... Hey Steven beam down the supplies... and then 50 borg drones materialize and star to asimilate the planet...ooops sorry captain wrong cargo...but hey we still got our RAD CUBE..whatever.
Sad thing is this could have been easily avoided, instead of exact looking ships we could have gotten 3 ships... an escort a sci ship and a cruiser or dreadnought or carrier that has the look of the alliance (fed, kling and rom) combined with some herald designs. But we all know why we got same ships, because they were already in game just some tweaking to the already existing models and voila new ships to sell...What does that spell for us if the developer is that lazy...bad things ? (ADMIRALTY SYSTEM...OUCH) for the future content that emphasizes on exploration...WELL I HOPE NOT.
What are your opinions on this matter? Does it bother you or not, and why? Have a nice day.
Since you asked for thoughts and what not OP I'm going to be very blunt with you and straight forward as to how I see it. Keep in mind despite my tone throughout I am not angry or anything of the such, but have dealt with far too many arguments like this.
For the whole immersion thing, it honestly doesn't break the immersion for me at all. Arguments based on immersion are always VERY subjective and are always baseless as they can never be proven or disproven. You as the OP may consider the new Herald stuff as something that breaks immersion where as I don't. I consider those ships as being something that was reverse engineered from what tech we were able to capture during the war. That or perhaps the Iconians gave us some resources to make restitution for their TRIBBLE up. There's a ton of different ways you can spin it story wise to make it fit for yourself. What one person considers immersive or breaking immersion, another person next to him may not. Arguments based on immersion are not valid arguments to bring to the table in a case such as this other than providing opinion. I for example should not be restricted from flying a Herald ship simply because YOU think it breaks YOUR immersion.
Your argument based on immersion was one of the same arguments that was used to try to restrict flying over on WoW. I'll tell you the same thing I told them. This game does not revolve around you and I play this game strictly for myself and to chill with the friends I have made online. I do not owe you any explanation of how I choose to play my toons or why I picked the ship for them I did. I earned the ships and equipment I have by hard work and a little cash in some cases. You're not owed it by me or anyone else to give up the ability to the fly the Herald ships should I obtain one simply because it ruins YOUR immersion. If your ability to play the game is so badly ruined by me choosing to fly a Herald ship instead of a non-iconian ship like yours, then you have more problems than just "ruined immersion." You are not owed it by me or anyone else in this game to fly non-Iconian ships to satisfy YOUR immersion nor should I have to give up the ability to use something simply because you don't like it, when it effects you in literally no way. Further your solution to not liking the Herald ships is already in game, don't fly the ship. I personally am not a fan of the Tal Shiar Adapted ships in game but I'm not out here suggesting they shouldn't be allowed to exist in game.
As to your arguments of science specific, tac specific and so on now. It takes a ton of work to create something in game. especially something that people can use. I myself am a small time modder for older games. For some of the missions I created in older games I have 20 hours+ in just getting the map setup how I wanted. That's not counting the some 15+ hours into setting up the logic and all of those things behind the scenes that make the mission tick. It's much easier for them to just program a ship and give it a versatile and adaptable layout than it is to make multiple versions of the same ship. Yes i agree it would be cool to have sci specific, tac specific, and so on of the Herald ships or whatever other ships you can think of, but I understand why sometimes they don't do it like that.
Overall I feel that you're overreacting to the Herald ships without even giving them a chance. I myself originally was not a fan of the Guardian Cruiser. Once I picked up the ship and actually flew it, now I consider it one of my favorite in game ships.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
But now we get this...Hey Johny lets play the iconian arc you know the story cryptic has been preparing us for 5 years almost all mission leading to this moment. Sure says Johny let me bring my Herald Quas Flight Deck Cruiser or my Herald Baltim Heavy Raider or my Herald Vonph Dreadnought Carrier....WAIT WHAT ? You just thrown the mystery, the fear and the soul of iconians and herlads down the toilet. Now they are just some generic cookie cutter enemy, everyone can fly their ships now...even a drunk klingon who had to much blood wine can.
Because fighting Tholians from the bridge of your Widow didn't break immersion
or fighting Elachi with your Monbosh/S'golth didn't break immersion
or fighting Dominion from your Jem'hadar Dreadnought/JHSS didn't break immersion
or fighting Voth from your Bastion/Bulwark didn't break immersion
or fighting Breen from your Theln/Grett/Brekt didn't break immersion
And because your Starfleet/KDF/RR character "exploring" the TRIBBLE outta everyone you meet in that Krenim Imperium warship didn't break immersion
It did so whats your point? Not my fault for complete lack of any lore or logical progression from crpytic. Thing is iconians with heralds are portrayed as the biggest baddest thread. Everything in mission leads to them, EVERYTHING... even your first officer who slips and faceplants on the console causing the selfdestruct...IT WAS ICONIANS FAULT... Take for instance the current message cryptic sent to us, telling us how 5 years lead to this one mission, one immersive mission called midnight...NOW FOR A LIMITED TIME YOU CAN immersive yourself with herald ships...the iconians wont know what hit them muahahahahah...whatever. Your mindset is like hey why are you scared and sad now that a murder happened in your vicinity...murders happen all the time...with that mindset what can we expect from the future of STO and their claim oF "EXPLORATION"...well i know SET PHASER TO KILL..lol i hope not.
My point is immersion never existed but you wait 5yrs to cry foul over THIS ONE?! Your denial aside, you know that "returning to being explorers" means "SET PHASER TO KILL" as you put it... You will explore the TRIBBLE outta those XXXX and you will like it, and once you're done exploring wether or not they are disruptor/phaser/tetryon/etc resistant and how much it takes to vaporize one, Cryptic will have you explore a dozen patrol missions where you explore how resistant XXXX's ships are.
Only time I'd worry about a ship anymore is if we started getting like Voth Citadel ships or Borg Cubes...then you know the end is near and it's one last milk...hell could call it Delta Enemies Lock Box and include both! R&D Box prize with a 0.00001% chance for your own Voth Fortress!
I was hoping we wouldn't have herald ships, but I always knew that one day.. we would.
As for immersion, I tend to agree with those that say it's up to the individual player. I have 5 characters, 4 of them fly faction appropriate ships and also wear the Faction uniforms (My Feds all wear Odyssey with the correct color/rank, Romulans wear Romulan armor.)
I have one character however that flies a recently won Xindi-Insectoid Olaen Escort Carrier. He's a KDF-Rom, and sure..that's certainly not a very 'Romulan' ship. I just come up with my own story that it's a prototype build by the Romulan Republic and the Klingon Empire using plans stolen in a Marauding attempt on a hidden base that ended up being under Xindi Control. The ship is a prototype design, and I pretty much just ignore other ships of the same type for the purpose of my own story, or just say that there is a small handful of them (the ship isn't that common.)
Overall, it's better to leave it to the player then it is to start trying to restrict other people. Maybe I personally don't think people should be flying Herald ships, but I would never want them taken away from those that want it. I always find it easier to go with the option that doesn't infringe on the way others wish to play the game. If someone wants to go flying around in a Xindi ship, let them. Personally, I love my Xindi ship.. I had to open 3 whole lock boxes to get it! (yeah, I got lucky.) If it works for me, then that's all that matters.. same with others around me.
I'm generally in favor of letting people play what they want to play.
Overall, it's better to leave it to the player then it is to start trying to restrict other people. Maybe I personally don't think people should be flying Herald ships, but I would never want them taken away from those that want it. I always find it easier to go with the option that doesn't infringe on the way others wish to play the game. If someone wants to go flying around in a Xindi ship, let them. Personally, I love my Xindi ship.. I had to open 3 whole lock boxes to get it! (yeah, I got lucky.) If it works for me, then that's all that matters.. same with others around me.
I'm generally in favor of letting people play what they want to play.
1,000,000 times this. I personally am more of a cruiser person. I enjoy flying ships such as the Galor, the Galaxy and Galaxy-x, Odyssey, and other ships like that. This doesn't mean however I don't enjoy zipping around in a Defiant, Temporal Destroyer, or other escort ship from time to time. Simply because I'm a cruiser person however I'm going to demand that everyone else lose the ability to fly escorts and that they must fly cruisers like me. Some people like the D'deridex for example like myself, and others don't. Because they don't like it they don't fly it, and thus everyone is happy. I get to fly it, and others who don't want to don't have to.
When people start saying that something should be removed or not be allowed because it "ruins their immersion" their argument immediately loses all credibility and even further, stinks of entitlement mentality. Like I said above immersion is subjective to the person, and cannot be proven or disproven, thus is a baseless argument to use for having something removed. If their game experience is ruined by me flying a ship they don't like, or playing missions they don't like, they have more problems than just "immersion breaking." If their game is ruined by others not playing the way they like, then they don't need to be on the internet or mmos because they're going to have a rough time.
Restricting the way people play isn't going to get people to keep playing the game and in fact does more to drive them away. Overall we don't need to be removing things or canceling things such as the Herald ships simply because some people used subjective arguments to sooth their entitlement mentality.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
still laughing at people thinking immersion is important when you can make anything from an oompa loompa to Yoda with the alien character generator and throw party balls while squatting on Spocks statue on vulcan
Comments
Because fighting Tholians from the bridge of your Widow didn't break immersion
or fighting Elachi with your Monbosh/S'golth didn't break immersion
or fighting Dominion from your Jem'hadar Dreadnought/JHSS didn't break immersion
or fighting Voth from your Bastion/Bulwark didn't break immersion
or fighting Breen from your Theln/Grett/Brekt didn't break immersion
And because your Starfleet/KDF/RR character "exploring" the TRIBBLE outta everyone you meet in that Krenim Imperium warship didn't break immersion
we have every other ship even uber powerfull iconian ships now so why cant we have token borg ships
And THIS my friends, is a sensible answer. Stick with Tech, let faction ships get mutated, modified even with parts and visual enhancements (not just skins) reminiscent of the various races (Voth, Undine, Iconian, etc etc). Instead of a Voth ship, how about special "Voth Nacelles" (lockbox item) that you could use instead? Just an example.
My character Tsin'xing
Tell that dude to get the heck up, the food is burning!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
This has been going on forever, including the Undine, Dominion, Tholian, Vaadwaur, Voth, Hirogen, and Elachi Lockboxes, and it is only now that you complain?
I think that Klingon isn't the only one who's had too much bloodwine.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
(See, that's sarcasm. Did your sarcasm detector pick that up?)
What I find pitiful, however, is that Cryptic doesn't even pay attention to the stuff they write themselves. Having Iconian starships and weapons casually and readily available, everything the writers now come up with as the next big thread is unbelievable as we now posses the ultimate technology that is undefeatable. Yes, the MU-nonsense and they defeaqted their Iconians but they still use the stock mirror starships and phasers instead of opening rifts and all of that so that's once again just a story bit existing in blogs, not the actual game, another point Cryptic repeatedly drops the ball with.
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Because it is the only current Star Trek game and bearing the title "Star Trek Online" many players still mourn the expectations they had five years ago or new players might have coming here only to find it's not the game they were looking for. And then they still stick around, because it's the only current game...
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It did so whats your point? Not my fault for complete lack of any lore or logical progression from crpytic. Thing is iconians with heralds are portrayed as the biggest baddest thread. Everything in mission leads to them, EVERYTHING... even your first officer who slips and faceplants on the console causing the selfdestruct...IT WAS ICONIANS FAULT... Take for instance the current message cryptic sent to us, telling us how 5 years lead to this one mission, one immersive mission called midnight...NOW FOR A LIMITED TIME YOU CAN immersive yourself with herald ships...the iconians wont know what hit them muahahahahah...whatever. Your mindset is like hey why are you scared and sad now that a murder happened in your vicinity...murders happen all the time...with that mindset what can we expect from the future of STO and their claim oF "EXPLORATION"...well i know SET PHASER TO KILL..lol i hope not.
[/quote]Tell that dude to get the heck up, the food is burning![/quote]
He likes it crispy and crunchy lol.
I dont drink bloodwine to weak, i only drink cider lol. As said before i complain now because of how big the iconians are portrayed...everyone has a limit (some have 5 beers some 10 and so on...), mine broke now... You know if you add TRIBBLE onto TRIBBLE you get...more TRIBBLE so why continue this bad practice...
Ow dont worry i wont take away your kinky fantasies.... Bikini Orions are so immersive har har har...
Also as far as kinky fantasies yes I like women in bikinis. its a guy thing, I think cryptic agrees or they would not have added them to the game. right?
I dunno, daring to change the looks of iconic ships usually lands them in even more hot water than it does offering alien hardware.
Remember the fuss over that T6 Excelsior cruiser - even though the original skin was still an option plenty of people shed tears over it's facelift.
or they complain it doesn't look like a *insert faction name* ship. remember when dyson ships came out? one of major complains was they did looked look totally alien ships. the fact that it took them a year to add faction textures didn't help.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
My character Tsin'xing
Since you asked for thoughts and what not OP I'm going to be very blunt with you and straight forward as to how I see it. Keep in mind despite my tone throughout I am not angry or anything of the such, but have dealt with far too many arguments like this.
For the whole immersion thing, it honestly doesn't break the immersion for me at all. Arguments based on immersion are always VERY subjective and are always baseless as they can never be proven or disproven. You as the OP may consider the new Herald stuff as something that breaks immersion where as I don't. I consider those ships as being something that was reverse engineered from what tech we were able to capture during the war. That or perhaps the Iconians gave us some resources to make restitution for their TRIBBLE up. There's a ton of different ways you can spin it story wise to make it fit for yourself. What one person considers immersive or breaking immersion, another person next to him may not. Arguments based on immersion are not valid arguments to bring to the table in a case such as this other than providing opinion. I for example should not be restricted from flying a Herald ship simply because YOU think it breaks YOUR immersion.
Your argument based on immersion was one of the same arguments that was used to try to restrict flying over on WoW. I'll tell you the same thing I told them. This game does not revolve around you and I play this game strictly for myself and to chill with the friends I have made online. I do not owe you any explanation of how I choose to play my toons or why I picked the ship for them I did. I earned the ships and equipment I have by hard work and a little cash in some cases. You're not owed it by me or anyone else to give up the ability to the fly the Herald ships should I obtain one simply because it ruins YOUR immersion. If your ability to play the game is so badly ruined by me choosing to fly a Herald ship instead of a non-iconian ship like yours, then you have more problems than just "ruined immersion." You are not owed it by me or anyone else in this game to fly non-Iconian ships to satisfy YOUR immersion nor should I have to give up the ability to use something simply because you don't like it, when it effects you in literally no way. Further your solution to not liking the Herald ships is already in game, don't fly the ship. I personally am not a fan of the Tal Shiar Adapted ships in game but I'm not out here suggesting they shouldn't be allowed to exist in game.
As to your arguments of science specific, tac specific and so on now. It takes a ton of work to create something in game. especially something that people can use. I myself am a small time modder for older games. For some of the missions I created in older games I have 20 hours+ in just getting the map setup how I wanted. That's not counting the some 15+ hours into setting up the logic and all of those things behind the scenes that make the mission tick. It's much easier for them to just program a ship and give it a versatile and adaptable layout than it is to make multiple versions of the same ship. Yes i agree it would be cool to have sci specific, tac specific, and so on of the Herald ships or whatever other ships you can think of, but I understand why sometimes they don't do it like that.
Overall I feel that you're overreacting to the Herald ships without even giving them a chance. I myself originally was not a fan of the Guardian Cruiser. Once I picked up the ship and actually flew it, now I consider it one of my favorite in game ships.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
My only answer to the question "Why?"... is "Because - PROFITS."
My point is immersion never existed but you wait 5yrs to cry foul over THIS ONE?! Your denial aside, you know that "returning to being explorers" means "SET PHASER TO KILL" as you put it... You will explore the TRIBBLE outta those XXXX and you will like it, and once you're done exploring wether or not they are disruptor/phaser/tetryon/etc resistant and how much it takes to vaporize one, Cryptic will have you explore a dozen patrol missions where you explore how resistant XXXX's ships are.
Ride out the end of STO in style!
What a false representation it didn't happen like that, it was more like this after seeing the herald lockbox ships.
And having bart in STO forum also broke my immersion...whats next a bart skin in sto...a bart dof...OW THE HUMANITY lol.
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I have seen Homer running around ESD so....
Fleet leader Nova Elite
Fleet Leader House of Nova elite
@ren_larreck
As for immersion, I tend to agree with those that say it's up to the individual player. I have 5 characters, 4 of them fly faction appropriate ships and also wear the Faction uniforms (My Feds all wear Odyssey with the correct color/rank, Romulans wear Romulan armor.)
I have one character however that flies a recently won Xindi-Insectoid Olaen Escort Carrier. He's a KDF-Rom, and sure..that's certainly not a very 'Romulan' ship. I just come up with my own story that it's a prototype build by the Romulan Republic and the Klingon Empire using plans stolen in a Marauding attempt on a hidden base that ended up being under Xindi Control. The ship is a prototype design, and I pretty much just ignore other ships of the same type for the purpose of my own story, or just say that there is a small handful of them (the ship isn't that common.)
Overall, it's better to leave it to the player then it is to start trying to restrict other people. Maybe I personally don't think people should be flying Herald ships, but I would never want them taken away from those that want it. I always find it easier to go with the option that doesn't infringe on the way others wish to play the game. If someone wants to go flying around in a Xindi ship, let them. Personally, I love my Xindi ship.. I had to open 3 whole lock boxes to get it! (yeah, I got lucky.) If it works for me, then that's all that matters.. same with others around me.
I'm generally in favor of letting people play what they want to play.
1,000,000 times this. I personally am more of a cruiser person. I enjoy flying ships such as the Galor, the Galaxy and Galaxy-x, Odyssey, and other ships like that. This doesn't mean however I don't enjoy zipping around in a Defiant, Temporal Destroyer, or other escort ship from time to time. Simply because I'm a cruiser person however I'm going to demand that everyone else lose the ability to fly escorts and that they must fly cruisers like me. Some people like the D'deridex for example like myself, and others don't. Because they don't like it they don't fly it, and thus everyone is happy. I get to fly it, and others who don't want to don't have to.
When people start saying that something should be removed or not be allowed because it "ruins their immersion" their argument immediately loses all credibility and even further, stinks of entitlement mentality. Like I said above immersion is subjective to the person, and cannot be proven or disproven, thus is a baseless argument to use for having something removed. If their game experience is ruined by me flying a ship they don't like, or playing missions they don't like, they have more problems than just "immersion breaking." If their game is ruined by others not playing the way they like, then they don't need to be on the internet or mmos because they're going to have a rough time.
Restricting the way people play isn't going to get people to keep playing the game and in fact does more to drive them away. Overall we don't need to be removing things or canceling things such as the Herald ships simply because some people used subjective arguments to sooth their entitlement mentality.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
LOL.. Your chinese overlord's..PWE, must really love you.