Herald ships are coming.......hide your immersion!

mementoeden

So the next lock box ships are herald ones. Now to get something straight from the beginning i am totally fine with them being lock box ships. Cryptic needs to earn some money....sad truth is this game currently only stands because of the massive new ship spam sales else it would slowly decay... The thing is this new herald ships break the immersion, break the story and feel of star trek. Some say that already happened when you could fly undine and tholian ship...eh not really while totally alien to the alliance it wasn't so crowded with exotic ships and we could argue that iconians with heralds play a pivotal role in STO so these new ships have a bigger impact.

But now we get this...Hey Johny lets play the iconian arc you know the story cryptic has been preparing us for 5 years almost all mission leading to this moment. Sure says Johny let me bring my Herald Quas Flight Deck Cruiser or my Herald Baltim Heavy Raider or my Herald Vonph Dreadnought Carrier....WAIT WHAT ? You just thrown the mystery, the fear and the soul of iconians and herlads down the toilet. Now they are just some generic cookie cutter enemy, everyone can fly their ships now...even a drunk klingon who had to much blood wine can.

You could say ahhh this is nothing, it doesn't matter at all, but lets think deeper, a lot deeper..... You sure can like both space and ground combat like me but let me throw you out something, there are single and multi player games which have superior combat out there....but HEY ! why are you playing this game then...Simple because it has the star trek feel, the star trek mythos...flying iconic ships, relive the moments similar to the series.....And this lock box thing doesn't help that really. Whats next...a playable Vger...borg lock box.....OW NO. Imagine a scenario were an enlightened, kind federation captain (we will call him Johny again), flies to a colony in need of some supplies....IN A BORG CUBE causing a mass hysteria on the colony and he beams down and says, relax guys its just my new RAD cube check it out its shiny.... Hey Steven beam down the supplies... and then 50 borg drones materialize and star to asimilate the planet...ooops sorry captain wrong cargo...but hey we still got our RAD CUBE..whatever.

Sad thing is this could have been easily avoided, instead of exact looking ships we could have gotten 3 ships... an escort a sci ship and a cruiser or dreadnought or carrier that has the look of the alliance (fed, kling and rom) combined with some herald designs. But we all know why we got same ships, because they were already in game just some tweaking to the already existing models and voila new ships to sell...What does that spell for us if the developer is that lazy...bad things ? (ADMIRALTY SYSTEM...OUCH) for the future content that emphasizes on exploration...WELL I HOPE NOT.

What are your opinions on this matter? Does it bother you or not, and why? Have a nice day.

markhawkman

Heh.... faction-specific stuff is not lock-box. Except the temporal destroyers.

Also these ships are not actual copies of the originals, they're cheap knock-offs built by reverse engineering Herald tech.

karr007

It is not easy problem to solve. It is good thing that the ships are rare, because that way is tolerable. I mean it is not unheard to command captured enemy vessels. I used to fly mirror ships before getting some zen store ships. I adore the ISS Prefix and the yellow skin. If my command battlecruiser can get mirror skin i will fly it that way. I have no doubt that my mirror ship maybe have broken someone sense of star trekkiness, but this is mmo. Stuff like that is not uncommon. So the best answer is - Try to fly what you like, and try not to bother with too much things that the other players are doing. Because flying alien ships is just one of them. What about the ridiculous names or colors? What about the legion of warbirds near ESD? The simple answer it - try to enjoy the game as much as you could and don't nitpick too much.

mickcasanova

Yeah, it is kind of sad. Makes STO feel more an more like an arcade game than ever. It would have been better to include the tech rather than the actual ships. Much like they did with the Voth ships. That made more sense.

gulberat

markhawkman wrote: »

Also these ships are not actual copies of the originals, they're cheap knock-offs built by reverse engineering Herald tech.

That depends on how you read the announcement. I'd read it to say that they reverse-engineered the gate tech, but had done so to use their ships against them.

markhawkman

Uh... we DO have the ability to fly Voth ships.

anazonda

What immersion ?

mementoeden

Both of your comments have some truth in it and i respect them.

To mark: its true that they are reverse engineered but they still look the same visually. I always thought that a race or a faction puts some soul some of their culture in the design of their ships which this lockboxes negate that.

To karr: true there are multiple things in game that could break immersion not only lock box ships although you could argue as romulans being ally its normal to see them..or not

My fear is that the more time it passes the more ridiculous it gets, this time we get same looking ships from the main enemy in the entire game, it does have some impact..still i can and will enjoy the game as you sad you try to see it through either with patience or booze....a lot of booze

gulberat

For me, when I play any toon, I tend to ignore the existence of other toons for story purposes, so yes, there's a lot of mess around spacedock and I'm sure some people get mad when I pull up in my Dromias, but the way I think, each of us have our own little "reality bubble." We're each our own little universe. I treat it a bit similarly when I write fanfic...though actually, with the toon that has the Dromias, in my story, he still officially flies a Prometheus-class ship and does not exactly captain the Dromias. (The reason I fly the Dromias in game is because unlike most people here, I suck at flying escorts. Badly. I rigged the Dromias into a quasi-sci, and I'm a lot happier with it than the Prometheus.)

Now, when it comes to immersion, my Cardassian has a Galor but as far as I'm concerned, because he's a dual-commissioned exchange officer, he has EVERY possible excuse to have access to that ship. It will be the same if a Cardassian uniform ever comes out...he has every right to that uniform.

coupaholic

markhawkman wrote: »

Uh... we DO have the ability to fly Voth ships.

And Tholian. And Undine. And Breen.

anazonda wrote: »

What immersion ?

Indeed.​​

sorceror01

As a ship collector, I'm actually ecstatic that I have the chance to acquire these ships. Iconian tech would be the crowning jewel in any collection, honestly.
And while I probably will want to fly them around, probably unlock their masteries and whatnot, I know eventually, I'll be keener on flying one of my mainstay faction-specific ships. Maybe have an alternate loadout for them that uses Iconian weaponry and consoles, heh.

What I'm just as thrilled about getting, though, and will probably see more consistent use out of me, are the new ground equipment. The modules, the staff weapons, the outfits..... man, this was a long time coming for me.

I do have my own immersion to consider, and yes even the immersion of others. I can only excuse the use of Iconian ships for so long before I'd start to feel a little silly.

I know my reasoning is probably not the majority. And the fact that the Iconian ships have two specialization seats apiece to them will probably make them mainstays for many, many players. But at least for me, I know I'll more than likely keep going back to faction-specific ships in the long run.

mustrumridcully0

This is really an old hat, you know. It was already a problem with the first ever promo/lockbox type ship, the Jem'Hadar, and it got progessively worse. We are already flying Undine ship. I think these are actually more far fetched then flying Herald or Borg ships.

MMOs are not really that well suited to create immersion.
Hundreds of people in weird clothing bunny-hopping across the landscape just will never feel all that immersive.

davefenestrator

I guess it would be a nice feature to be able to hide non-faction ships in shared areas. If you combined that with private grouping instead of PUGs you'd never need to see these ships (and Xindi, Jem'Hadar, etc.) except when you need to PUG an event like Crystalline Catastrophe.

svindal777

anazonda

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

This is really an old hat, you know. It was already a problem with the first ever TOS Connie and it got progessively worse. We are already flying Undine ship. I think these are actually more far fetched then flying Herald or Borg ships.

MMOs are not really that well suited to create immersion.
Hundreds of people in weird clothing bunny-hopping across the landscape just will never feel all that immersive.

Fixed that for ya

gulberat

davefenestrator wrote: »

I guess it would be a nice feature to be able to hide non-faction ships in shared areas. If you combined that with private grouping instead of PUGs you'd never need to see these ships (and Xindi, Jem'Hadar, etc.) except when you need to PUG an event like Crystalline Catastrophe.

I am not sure how that would work out in functional terms. Not only does it sound like a coding nightmare, but where do you draw the line? That could become very arbitrary. What about the person with a Mirror ship who reskinned it to look totally fed? What about the person with an alien-gen Cardassian (which you can't even detect by ANY kind of code) who flies a Cardassian ship? Or other things?

To me, that just doesn't seem feasible.

mementoeden

sorceror01 wrote: »

As a ship collector, I'm actually ecstatic that I have the chance to acquire these ships. Iconian tech would be the crowning jewel in any collection, honestly.
And while I probably will want to fly them around, probably unlock their masteries and whatnot, I know eventually, I'll be keener on flying one of my mainstay faction-specific ships. Maybe have an alternate loadout for them that uses Iconian weaponry and consoles, heh.

What I'm just as thrilled about getting, though, and will probably see more consistent use out of me, are the new ground equipment. The modules, the staff weapons, the outfits..... man, this was a long time coming for me.

I do have my own immersion to consider, and yes even the immersion of others. I can only excuse the use of Iconian ships for so long before I'd start to feel a little silly.

I know my reasoning is probably not the majority. And the fact that the Iconian ships have two specialization seats apiece to them will probably make them mainstays for many, many players. But at least for me, I know I'll more than likely keep going back to faction-specific ships in the long run.

Never thought of that, but it does make sense from a collectors perspective.

gulberat wrote: »

For me, when I play any toon, I tend to ignore the existence of other toons for story purposes, so yes, there's a lot of mess around spacedock and I'm sure some people get mad when I pull up in my Dromias, but the way I think, each of us have our own little "reality bubble." We're each our own little universe. I treat it a bit similarly when I write fanfic...though actually, with the toon that has the Dromias, in my story, he still officially flies a Prometheus-class ship and does not exactly captain the Dromias. (The reason I fly the Dromias in game is because unlike most people here, I suck at flying escorts. Badly. I rigged the Dromias into a quasi-sci, and I'm a lot happier with it than the Prometheus.)

Now, when it comes to immersion, my Cardassian has a Galor but as far as I'm concerned, because he's a dual-commissioned exchange officer, he has EVERY possible excuse to have access to that ship. It will be the same if a Cardassian uniform ever comes out...he has every right to that uniform.

True, immersion really does depend on the player and his view, so to each their own i guess and if your dromias suits your play style who am i to argue against it

svindal777 wrote: »

What a false representation it didn't happen like that, it was more like this after seeing the herald lockbox ships.



And having bart in STO forum also broke my immersion...whats next a bart skin in sto...a bart dof...OW THE HUMANITY lol.

drogyn1701

Immersion is what you make it. Don't just rely on the game to do it for you. Personally I love seeing all the alien ships, I think it enhances immersion. Helps give me the sense that the galaxy is bigger than just the Big Three factions. I love making "RP crews" for these ships. I have Andorians flying the Kumari, aliengen Cardassians flying the Galor, guys in full Voth rep armor flying the Bulwark. For me, these guys are their respective races and I can easily ignore the little faction symbol next to their name. A little imagination goes a long way.

mustrumridcully0

drogyn1701 wrote: »

Immersion is what you make it. Don't just rely on the game to do it for you. Personally I love seeing all the alien ships, I think it enhances immersion. Helps give me the sense that the galaxy is bigger than just the Big Three factions. I love making "RP crews" for these ships. I have Andorians flying the Kumari, aliengen Cardassians flying the Galor, guys in full Voth rep armor flying the Bulwark. For me, these guys are their respective races and I can easily ignore the little faction symbol next to their name. A little imagination goes a long way.

That is also one way to see all those ships - they might be captained by players that in their own view are all Starfleet, KDF or RR officers, but from your view, they could just as well be simply alien visitors that come with their own space ships. The Herald ships might just be representing an Iconian delegation working out details of the cease-fire/peace-treaty, or be send to establish an embassy so we can normalize relations.

gulberat

And similarly, if you see a Galor at DS9, we saw that so often on the show that IMO that should be considered normal traffic, especially in a post-Dominion War era.

farmallm

I'm glad they offer ships for us to use. That way everyone gets to fly something they like. I usually don't get the lock box ships unless they are cheap on the exchange. However I usually get ground gear as they are usually cheap too. As usual I see a couple ground equipment. Now to buy them and use them.

markhawkman

Hehe, ALSO, if you want to emphasize that it's not just another alien ship, you can repaint it. The Sarr Theln looks neat with the Dyson shield.

seriousxeno

Immersion went out of the window with playable Undine ships. Anybody surprised by a Herald box was supremely naive.

sennahcherib

Immersion went out of the window with playable Undine ships

indeed.

personally i don't care about immersion, canon, etc. Heralds/iconians were really so special, i'm just sad to see that the players will be able to use the iconian ships. how I could do gateway to grethor with players who will have the vonph, the quas?? I have decided that when I would be with players who will have these ships in GGA; I would leave the stf (the penalty is not a problem). Vonph, Quas, Baltrim are iconian ships, that's all.

talonxv

Immersion went out the window LOOOOONNGGGG ago.

deleroux

Immersion and integrity take a backseat to milking the cash cow $$$

warmaker001b

Playable Species 8472 Bioships.

The shark was jumped long ago lol

gulberat

sennahcherib wrote: »

Immersion went out of the window with playable Undine ships

indeed.

personally i don't care about immersion, canon, etc. Heralds/iconians were really so special, i'm just sad to see that the players will be able to use the iconian ships. how I could do gateway to grethor with players who will have the vonph, the quas?? I have decided that when I would be with players who will have these ships in GGA; I would leave the stf (the penalty is not a problem). Vonph, Quas, Baltrim are iconian ships, that's all.

I don't think that's right. I may not be getting one of those ships myself, but I don't think that those who do so have done it to personally spite me somehow.

excellentawesome

I don't really care about game immersion whatever that even means like how is back to the future hoverboards and discoballs part of star trek . let the game makers make their own game there are plenty others to play if this stuff really bothers anyone

vonhellsting

I'm just waiting for them to put Q's giant rubber ducky starship in a lock box so that I can hear the sound 50000 fans face palming at once.
But yeah I'm not a big fan of lock box ships it takes the star trek universe and turns it into a theme park.

excellentawesome

if I could afford it I would get all of these, F immersion its a game!