TRIBBLE. A, we now have the Dominion involved. By the Iconians' own admission, that means military victory is possible: "Sphere of Influence" explicitly states the Iconians can't fight us AND the Dominion.
B, there's always the carrot and stick approach, made possible by the Iconians' own failure to clean up their leftovers. Grab a few dozen Omega particles from the Solanae Sphere and threaten to detonate them in the Iconia system. They don't surrender, they're trapped for good: I rather doubt their subspace magic would do them any good with no subspace for several light-years around. Option two, they surrender and start cleaning up the mess they made, and they can have Sela for a chew toy.
Either way, we win.
No, not we win. The Dominion might win. There is no guarantee that the Dominion would be able (or willing) to save the Alpha Quadrant and Beta Quadrant. We have no convenient gateways at our disposal to the Gamma Quadrant, we don't have Transwarp Gates, we just have the Wormhole. A wormhole that provided a critical bottle neck for the Dominion in the Dominion War.
The Iconians can just pop up in the Gamma Quadrant as they see fit, which means the Dominion needs to maintain a strong presence and can't just send gigantic task forces to protect Earth, Vulcan or Qonos. We will probably get some support, but for the Dominion, there aren't any reason to prioritize a Federation or Klingon world over one of its own member worlds.
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i felt the celebration sucked a bit,i mean i just saved the galaxy and only a few officers say thanks.
WHERES MY PARADE WHERE IS THE FEDERATION PRESIDENT, HELL WHERE IS QUINN?
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
i felt the celebration sucked a bit,i mean i just saved the galaxy and only a few officers say thanks.
WHERES MY PARADE WHERE IS THE FEDERATION PRESIDENT, HELL WHERE IS QUINN?
True. Just saved billions of lives. They could of added more towards the celebration.
So the Preservers will not be back. I hope in the future we find a way to bring them back or find another planet with Preservers on them.
There may be hope. The Preserver Archivist said that some of the Preservers were going out to see the galaxy, but MOST were staying on Laenas. Also, it was stated that each Preserver has within their DNA all the knowledge of their race. So there IS a strong probability that the more-advanced-than-Iconians Preservers are still about.
The final battle felt more like a skirmish than an actual invasion with only half a dozen ships or so warping in at any one time. The trip though time was just plain dull and the final resolution as well as the dialogue that came with it felt really forced like a bad fanfic.
I have somewhat enjoyed most of this arc but that final episode just felt phoned in like they just wanted to get it out of the way
Haven't played STO for months by now, but i was bored and curious how Cryptics devs will end the iconian war. (not that i really cared anymore).
So i took my main character, blew away the dust and did some simple missions to get acclimatized again. After that i played "Broken Circle" which was just as i expected, a lot of pew pew but not really interesting. Typical STO writing.
The next mission was much better. I don't want to write a review or talk about things that could be done better/different (in universe). A nice addition where the mission rewards, Tetryon based Weapons and a console!(ignoring the Warp Core:) ) I could finally dig up some Tetryon weapons i barey remembered i made once and put them onto my Exploration Cruiser, really NICE!
The following mission "Midnight" was awesome!
And i really mean that. (Many people who remember my past writings about how un-trekkish STO was will know how skeptical i am against Cryptics War-Trek)
I don't want to go into detaills why i like this mission so much, i think many other people in this thread already did, and i can't add anything new. (man i thought "shoot Sela!!!" so many times during that mission, lol)
I just want to say i'd L.O.V.E. if STO would go more into a Star Trek like direction like indicated in that episode, especially the last part!
I really liked the last statements (at the academy) from Captain Kagran (his statement about honor), Harry Kim and Nog at the end!
Like Harry Kim said, let's be Starfleet officers again!
Greetings to everyone!
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
As soon as they introduced the Krenim in that first Nog mission, I knew from then that this whole Iconian thing was going to be a pre-destination paradox...
When in the past, when I saw those Iconian Federation of Planets guys, I was sure I would not kill them, and over the next few dialogues, I developed a plan: We would take the World Heart and one of the 13 surviving Iconians with us into the future to end the war. All the time when Sela asked what my plan was, I just said "trust me".
And then only 12 survived, and Sela the moron shot... sigh. So we had to take only the World Heart and hope for the best.
No plan survives contact with Sela.
You know, it's a shame this game can never let us truly make decisions as captain.
Because I would've just had my ship beam aboard all the Iconian civilians and Heralds it could hold to take back with us, and it can hold a lot.
When in the past, when I saw those Iconian Federation of Planets guys, I was sure I would not kill them, and over the next few dialogues, I developed a plan: We would take the World Heart and one of the 13 surviving Iconians with us into the future to end the war. All the time when Sela asked what my plan was, I just said "trust me".
And then only 12 survived, and Sela the moron shot... sigh. So we had to take only the World Heart and hope for the best.
No plan survives contact with Sela.
You know, it's a shame this game can never let us truly make decisions as captain.
Because I would've just had my ship beam aboard all the Iconian civilians and Heralds it could hold to take back with us, and it can hold a lot.
I don't know if that would work though remember Iconians don't do well with time travel.
You know, it's a shame this game can never let us truly make decisions as captain.
Because I would've just had my ship beam aboard all the Iconian civilians and Heralds it could hold to take back with us, and it can hold a lot.
Since time-travel rewrites Iconian minds to match the current time, they'd probably go from innocent and nice to try and kill the crew seeing we're at war against them in the present. Except they'd be a bit pathetic without the enhancements the non-time-misplaced Iconians got.
You know, it's a shame this game can never let us truly make decisions as captain.
Because I would've just had my ship beam aboard all the Iconian civilians and Heralds it could hold to take back with us, and it can hold a lot.
Since time-travel rewrites Iconian minds to match the current time, they'd probably go from innocent and nice to try and kill the crew seeing we're at war against them in the present. Except they'd be a bit pathetic without the enhancements the non-time-misplaced Iconians got.
If I recall what Sela said, she said that their memories of the intervening time get erased. When going forward this is really a non-issue, when going back it's a nightmare. Of course taking them forward to the future would mean two sets of Iconians? Perhaps the thing to do would have been clone M'Tara (with her permission) and then bring the clone into the future with you. "I saved the World Heart-and your sister".
That would have been some major leverage.
And L'Miren should have gated down with you to SFA. "I am L'Miren, this is my Significant Other..."
You know, it's a shame this game can never let us truly make decisions as captain.
Because I would've just had my ship beam aboard all the Iconian civilians and Heralds it could hold to take back with us, and it can hold a lot.
Since time-travel rewrites Iconian minds to match the current time, they'd probably go from innocent and nice to try and kill the crew seeing we're at war against them in the present. Except they'd be a bit pathetic without the enhancements the non-time-misplaced Iconians got.
If I recall what Sela said, she said that their memories of the intervening time get erased. When going forward this is really a non-issue, when going back it's a nightmare. Of course taking them forward to the future would mean two sets of Iconians? Perhaps the thing to do would have been clone M'Tara (with her permission) and then bring the clone into the future with you. "I saved the World Heart-and your sister".
That would have been some major leverage.
And L'Miren should have gated down with you to SFA. "I am L'Miren, this is my Significant Other..."
Or they could have brought past M'Tara to the future. If the Iconians do not lose their memories if they travel forward in time.
You know, it's a shame this game can never let us truly make decisions as captain.
Because I would've just had my ship beam aboard all the Iconian civilians and Heralds it could hold to take back with us, and it can hold a lot.
Since time-travel rewrites Iconian minds to match the current time, they'd probably go from innocent and nice to try and kill the crew seeing we're at war against them in the present. Except they'd be a bit pathetic without the enhancements the non-time-misplaced Iconians got.
If I recall what Sela said, she said that their memories of the intervening time get erased. When going forward this is really a non-issue, when going back it's a nightmare. Of course taking them forward to the future would mean two sets of Iconians? Perhaps the thing to do would have been clone M'Tara (with her permission) and then bring the clone into the future with you. "I saved the World Heart-and your sister".
That would have been some major leverage.
And L'Miren should have gated down with you to SFA. "I am L'Miren, this is my Significant Other..."
Or they could have brought past M'Tara to the future. If the Iconians do not lose their memories if they travel forward in time.
That would have been legit as well, ven if they have memory loss it was describd as memories of the intervening time, so effectively for M'Tara would have been like a gate transit (going forward)
best episode of the "war" by far... that said there were still some moments of REALLY TRIBBLE writing and holes you could pilot a borg cube through.... and Sela... why cant I kill her? arrest her? kick her head in so she's unconscious the whole mission?
This times a million. Cryptic really needs to wake up to the idea that this is a role-playing game and that god modding players into horribly awkward positions is the kind of thing that makes people not care about their stories. It was clear almost the entire time on Iconia, that she was going to spill blood no matter what evidence you came across. I would have subdued her considering every other person there with me was on my side, we could have easily overpowered her. It just baffles me that your character could fly up the ranks to grand admiral of the universe within a few years and be so naive towards the galaxies biggest criminal. She is a mass murdering criminal, that escaped from prison, I didn't forget about that. Not only did she murder and torture her own people, she tried to wipe Vulcan off the map, then she murdered several Iconians despite all the evidence showing they were initially a benevolent race; instigating a war that killed billions. She knew exactly what the facts where and didn't care, she chose the dark side and MUST pay the piper. I would like to see an episode where the alliance puts her on trial and sentences her to immediate execution (giving her no dialogue). This is one character that really needs to be put to rest, forever.
She knew exactly what the facts where and didn't care, she chose the dark side and MUST pay the piper. I would like to see an episode where the alliance puts her on trial and sentences her to immediate execution (giving her no dialogue).
The facts were that the Iconians destroyed the Romulan homeworld, and that Sela killed a handful of Iconians. All other so-called 'facts' are interpretations and opinions of people who seem to have already decided that Sela needs to die, regardless of who started the conflict.
It is impossible to determine who started this entire bloodbath. Yet a lot of players here are so inclined to execute Sela, when it still has to be determined that she was actually the cause of the Iconian war. There is a paradox here, I explained it on the first page (edit: of this thread) and since no one can answer that question, no one has the right to determine that everything is Sela's fault and execute her immediately.
As has been pointed out by others as well: the Iconians didn't just try to eliminate the 'treacherous' Romulans. They attacked dozens of species, even those from other dimensions (the Undine). Most of these species had nothing to do with the fact that a handful of Iconians were killed by Sela in the past, yet they were still targeted for extermination by the Iconians. A fact that most people here seem to ignore in their hate for Sela. To blame Sela for the entire war doesn't make any sense at all.
Good luck trying to sentence someone when you're dealing with a paradox. If you want justice, you're going to have to solve that paradox first before you sentence anyone. And given the huge mistakes that were made when the Alliance attempted to grasp the effects of time travel, I don't think anyone can solve the paradox.
It is impossible to determine who started this entire bloodbath. Yet a lot of players here are so inclined to execute Sela, when it still has to be determined that she was actually the cause of the Iconian war.
Sela is on the execution list for a list of crimes she commited against her people and others.
She helped the Tal'Shiar get the power it had, she let the Elachi take Romulans for their transformation process, she might have allowed Taris to play around with Iconian tech to trigger the Hobus supernova, she allowed Hirogen to hunt even other Romulans in Romulan space, and she launched an attack on Vulcan.
I think it's likely that the only other thing she did "achieve" in regards to Iconia was that she made the Iconians extra-pissed of at the Romulans. Maybe taking the World Heart set them on the general war path, but maybe that damage was already done by the fact that a bunch of aliens shot up their homeworld and the Iconian colonies.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
It is impossible to determine who started this entire bloodbath. Yet a lot of players here are so inclined to execute Sela, when it still has to be determined that she was actually the cause of the Iconian war.
Sela is on the execution list for a list of crimes she commited against her people and others.
She helped the Tal'Shiar get the power it had, she let the Elachi take Romulans for their transformation process, she might have allowed Taris to play around with Iconian tech to trigger the Hobus supernova, she allowed Hirogen to hunt even other Romulans in Romulan space, and she launched an attack on Vulcan.
I think it's likely that the only other thing she did "achieve" in regards to Iconia was that she made the Iconians extra-pissed of at the Romulans. Maybe taking the World Heart set them on the general war path, but maybe that damage was already done by the fact that a bunch of aliens shot up their homeworld and the Iconian colonies.
While she probably did little to stop the Tal Shiar, I don't think it was her who allowed the Hirogen to hunt Romulans. The only time we see them together, is in one of the reputation cutscenes. And there you see Ruul and an Hirogen, not Sela.
Sela obviously knew about the Iconians. In the episode on Brea III, she doesn't agree with Hakeev however. She considers Taris a fool and a 'deluded creature' for thinking the Iconians would want to help restore Romulus. I don't think she was on their side.
The episode where she attacked Vulcan always seemed kinda lame to me. It's the same with Nero: 'If I can't have my homeworld intact, none of us will'. I doubt even a Romulan would be crazy enough to do such a thing. Of course it did happen, and therefore it's part of STO canon.
Let's not forget, however, that the attacked failed. She should be kept somewhere where she can't do any harm. But immediately execute her for an assumed role in the Hobus event? There's no logical ground for such a decision since the entire event goes beyond our understanding.
I'm not going to say that Sela isn't a maniak. She obviously is. But there's too many people here who seem to have forgotten that just because Sela triggered something in the past, after having experienced the destruction of her homeworld by the Iconians in the present, doesn't make her responsible for the entire war or even the destruction of Romulus itself.
It is impossible to determine who started this entire bloodbath. Yet a lot of players here are so inclined to execute Sela, when it still has to be determined that she was actually the cause of the Iconian war.
Sela is on the execution list for a list of crimes she commited against her people and others.
She helped the Tal'Shiar get the power it had, she let the Elachi take Romulans for their transformation process, she might have allowed Taris to play around with Iconian tech to trigger the Hobus supernova, she allowed Hirogen to hunt even other Romulans in Romulan space, and she launched an attack on Vulcan.
I think it's likely that the only other thing she did "achieve" in regards to Iconia was that she made the Iconians extra-pissed of at the Romulans. Maybe taking the World Heart set them on the general war path, but maybe that damage was already done by the fact that a bunch of aliens shot up their homeworld and the Iconian colonies.
I do suspect that if Sela hadn't betrayed the Iconians, there would a) be more survivors and b) be no act of treachery marring the kindness of the Other. I'm sure T'Ket would still be a problem but perhaps she'd be reined in more by her sisters.
Game-wise Cryptic can't do that because of the enormous disruption to the timeline that would result in, but I do think Sela has to be punished for all that she has done, and executed as a matter of public safety since the danger of allowing her to live, even incarcerated, is demonstrably FAR too great to be tolerated again.
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Some war, it supposedly went on for years behind the scenes but yawn- we save them. Sela gets no justice, the Iconians go back into hiding, and what happens to the gateways ? They just wink out of existence next season, or what ? Maybe if they're feeling nice in 100k years they'll save Romulus from the Borg.
Only 12 of them and they caused all that turmoil, yawn what a letdown.
An option to stun Sela and say she will be tried for her acts of murder might have been nice. Though honestly I am surprised T'Ket didn't shoot her as T'Ket was armed after all.
It just felt a little... underwhelming and pointless.
I didn't even realise it was the end and then all of a sudden we were at the whole conclusion that could be summed up as "Woops, soz!" and then it's over.
I loved the mission and the ending.. Thought it was quite trekky. Brought us to the brink of extinction. Thought we had no choise but to destroy them. Found out we didnt and then the nice time loop story about Sela. I think its good.
I was a bit uncomfortable with T'ket vowing vengeance and using the word 'Romulan' before she went through the portal. Did T'ket ever know that Sela was a Romulan? Seemed like a slip in the story writing to me. However, overall I thought it was an interesting end.
am finding it hard to like the ending, can someone please answer this question. what was the point for M'Tara to destroy the preserver, when she was their diplomat back in the days? how did she become so revengeful compare to L'Miren and even T'ket. before anyone says T'ket was already like that, the person is mistaking. she became only revengeful when Kahless took her hand off.
"You ask why we give our ships computer normal emotions. Do you really want a warship incapable of loyalty?"
am finding it hard to like the ending, can someone please answer this question. what was the point for M'Tara to destroy the preserver, when she was their diplomat back in the days? how did she become so revengeful compare to L'Miren and even T'ket. before anyone says T'ket was already like that, the person is mistaking. she became only revengeful when Kahless took her hand off.
We might never know, because these Preservers were dead.
We know the Preservers were in the process of giving us something.
My guess would be that the Preservers would have information that could have helped us win a conventional war against them. The Preservers didn't want to give anyone weapons, but it might not have been weapons, or they might think differently if they need to stop the Iconians eradicating some of the many races the Preservers created.
Maybe they could have reverted the physical alterations to the Iconians or Heralds (since they know the original genome) - that wouldn't kill them, but depower them considerably.
Why it was T'Mara specifically that did it - she drew the short straw? I don't think we know much about T'Ket personality and motiviation before House of Pegh, so it is difficult to say whether Khaless changed anything about it.
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am finding it hard to like the ending, can someone please answer this question. what was the point for M'Tara to destroy the preserver, when she was their diplomat back in the days? how did she become so revengeful compare to L'Miren and even T'ket. before anyone says T'ket was already like that, the person is mistaking. she became only revengeful when Kahless took her hand off.
We might never know, because these Preservers were dead.
We know the Preservers were in the process of giving us something.
My guess would be that the Preservers would have information that could have helped us win a conventional war against them. The Preservers didn't want to give anyone weapons, but it might not have been weapons, or they might think differently if they need to stop the Iconians eradicating some of the many races the Preservers created.
Maybe they could have reverted the physical alterations to the Iconians or Heralds (since they know the original genome) - that wouldn't kill them, but depower them considerably.
Why it was T'Mara specifically that did it - she drew the short straw? I don't think we know much about T'Ket personality and motiviation before House of Pegh, so it is difficult to say whether Khaless changed anything about it.
Thank you for your explanation i think i finally understand this whole thing now.
"You ask why we give our ships computer normal emotions. Do you really want a warship incapable of loyalty?"
I liked it, and I like that the devs let open the possibility of more conflicts with the Iconian, there is an iconian dude who didnt believe in the peace thing, so maybe, just maybe he may become a member of the Iconian tal-Shiar (LOL)
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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" (Benjamin Franklin).
Most unexpectedly, this turned into a flame-fest! Closed it goes!. /sigh What flamefestery is this? pwlaughingtrendy
My guess would be that the Preservers would have information that could have helped us win a conventional war against them. The Preservers didn't want to give anyone weapons, but it might not have been weapons, or they might think differently if they need to stop the Iconians eradicating some of the many races the Preservers created.
Maybe they could have reverted the physical alterations to the Iconians or Heralds (since they know the original genome) - that wouldn't kill them, but depower them considerably.
Why it was T'Mara specifically that did it - she drew the short straw? I don't think we know much about T'Ket personality and motiviation before House of Pegh, so it is difficult to say whether Khaless changed anything about it.
Or maybe the Council knew that if T'Ket went there, she'd have overdone it by killing the Preservers gruesomely and painfully, and would have probably tell the tale about how she made her creators suffer for their inaction and weakness. And if L'Miren was sent, she might have not gone through this, preferring to be cautious as always. So, they went for the one who was neither too cruel or too "friendly".
My guess would be that the Preservers would have information that could have helped us win a conventional war against them. The Preservers didn't want to give anyone weapons, but it might not have been weapons, or they might think differently if they need to stop the Iconians eradicating some of the many races the Preservers created.
Maybe they could have reverted the physical alterations to the Iconians or Heralds (since they know the original genome) - that wouldn't kill them, but depower them considerably.
Why it was T'Mara specifically that did it - she drew the short straw? I don't think we know much about T'Ket personality and motiviation before House of Pegh, so it is difficult to say whether Khaless changed anything about it.
Or maybe the Council knew that if T'Ket went there, she'd have overdone it by killing the Preservers gruesomely and painfully, and would have probably tell the tale about how she made her creators suffer for their inaction and weakness. And if L'Miren was sent, she might have not gone through this, preferring to be cautious as always. So, they went for the one who was neither too cruel or too "friendly".
Kinda makes sense since I see M'Tara being the "ego" to T'ket's "id" and L'Miren's "superego". She had T'ket's pride and fury with L'Miren's cautiousness and reason combined into one. Kinda represented both of them. Made her death in "Broken Circle" that much more effective at throwing them out of balance.
Speaking of T'Ket, since this hasn't been answered, since she's still at war with the Alpha and Beta quadrants, how much of a threat does she still command? Out of the stated "billions" of Heralds, how many are hers, and would M'Tara's former Heralds go with her? Even at a maximum sixth of the size it was, the Iconian army is still strong enough to wipe the floor with us, potentially. Then again, L'Miren seemed to think or indicate we could handle T'Ket.
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No, not we win. The Dominion might win. There is no guarantee that the Dominion would be able (or willing) to save the Alpha Quadrant and Beta Quadrant. We have no convenient gateways at our disposal to the Gamma Quadrant, we don't have Transwarp Gates, we just have the Wormhole. A wormhole that provided a critical bottle neck for the Dominion in the Dominion War.
The Iconians can just pop up in the Gamma Quadrant as they see fit, which means the Dominion needs to maintain a strong presence and can't just send gigantic task forces to protect Earth, Vulcan or Qonos. We will probably get some support, but for the Dominion, there aren't any reason to prioritize a Federation or Klingon world over one of its own member worlds.
WHERES MY PARADE WHERE IS THE FEDERATION PRESIDENT, HELL WHERE IS QUINN?
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
True. Just saved billions of lives. They could of added more towards the celebration.
There may be hope. The Preserver Archivist said that some of the Preservers were going out to see the galaxy, but MOST were staying on Laenas. Also, it was stated that each Preserver has within their DNA all the knowledge of their race. So there IS a strong probability that the more-advanced-than-Iconians Preservers are still about.
The final battle felt more like a skirmish than an actual invasion with only half a dozen ships or so warping in at any one time. The trip though time was just plain dull and the final resolution as well as the dialogue that came with it felt really forced like a bad fanfic.
I have somewhat enjoyed most of this arc but that final episode just felt phoned in like they just wanted to get it out of the way
So i took my main character, blew away the dust and did some simple missions to get acclimatized again. After that i played "Broken Circle" which was just as i expected, a lot of pew pew but not really interesting. Typical STO writing.
The next mission was much better. I don't want to write a review or talk about things that could be done better/different (in universe). A nice addition where the mission rewards, Tetryon based Weapons and a console!(ignoring the Warp Core:) ) I could finally dig up some Tetryon weapons i barey remembered i made once and put them onto my Exploration Cruiser, really NICE!
The following mission "Midnight" was awesome!
And i really mean that. (Many people who remember my past writings about how un-trekkish STO was will know how skeptical i am against Cryptics War-Trek)
I don't want to go into detaills why i like this mission so much, i think many other people in this thread already did, and i can't add anything new. (man i thought "shoot Sela!!!" so many times during that mission, lol)
I just want to say i'd L.O.V.E. if STO would go more into a Star Trek like direction like indicated in that episode, especially the last part!
I really liked the last statements (at the academy) from Captain Kagran (his statement about honor), Harry Kim and Nog at the end!
Like Harry Kim said, let's be Starfleet officers again!
Greetings to everyone!
You know, it's a shame this game can never let us truly make decisions as captain.
Because I would've just had my ship beam aboard all the Iconian civilians and Heralds it could hold to take back with us, and it can hold a lot.
I don't know if that would work though remember Iconians don't do well with time travel.
Since time-travel rewrites Iconian minds to match the current time, they'd probably go from innocent and nice to try and kill the crew seeing we're at war against them in the present. Except they'd be a bit pathetic without the enhancements the non-time-misplaced Iconians got.
If I recall what Sela said, she said that their memories of the intervening time get erased. When going forward this is really a non-issue, when going back it's a nightmare. Of course taking them forward to the future would mean two sets of Iconians? Perhaps the thing to do would have been clone M'Tara (with her permission) and then bring the clone into the future with you. "I saved the World Heart-and your sister".
That would have been some major leverage.
And L'Miren should have gated down with you to SFA. "I am L'Miren, this is my Significant Other..."
Or they could have brought past M'Tara to the future. If the Iconians do not lose their memories if they travel forward in time.
That would have been legit as well, ven if they have memory loss it was describd as memories of the intervening time, so effectively for M'Tara would have been like a gate transit (going forward)
This times a million. Cryptic really needs to wake up to the idea that this is a role-playing game and that god modding players into horribly awkward positions is the kind of thing that makes people not care about their stories. It was clear almost the entire time on Iconia, that she was going to spill blood no matter what evidence you came across. I would have subdued her considering every other person there with me was on my side, we could have easily overpowered her. It just baffles me that your character could fly up the ranks to grand admiral of the universe within a few years and be so naive towards the galaxies biggest criminal. She is a mass murdering criminal, that escaped from prison, I didn't forget about that. Not only did she murder and torture her own people, she tried to wipe Vulcan off the map, then she murdered several Iconians despite all the evidence showing they were initially a benevolent race; instigating a war that killed billions. She knew exactly what the facts where and didn't care, she chose the dark side and MUST pay the piper. I would like to see an episode where the alliance puts her on trial and sentences her to immediate execution (giving her no dialogue). This is one character that really needs to be put to rest, forever.
She helped the Tal'Shiar get the power it had, she let the Elachi take Romulans for their transformation process, she might have allowed Taris to play around with Iconian tech to trigger the Hobus supernova, she allowed Hirogen to hunt even other Romulans in Romulan space, and she launched an attack on Vulcan.
I think it's likely that the only other thing she did "achieve" in regards to Iconia was that she made the Iconians extra-pissed of at the Romulans. Maybe taking the World Heart set them on the general war path, but maybe that damage was already done by the fact that a bunch of aliens shot up their homeworld and the Iconian colonies.
While she probably did little to stop the Tal Shiar, I don't think it was her who allowed the Hirogen to hunt Romulans. The only time we see them together, is in one of the reputation cutscenes. And there you see Ruul and an Hirogen, not Sela.
Sela obviously knew about the Iconians. In the episode on Brea III, she doesn't agree with Hakeev however. She considers Taris a fool and a 'deluded creature' for thinking the Iconians would want to help restore Romulus. I don't think she was on their side.
The episode where she attacked Vulcan always seemed kinda lame to me. It's the same with Nero: 'If I can't have my homeworld intact, none of us will'. I doubt even a Romulan would be crazy enough to do such a thing. Of course it did happen, and therefore it's part of STO canon.
Let's not forget, however, that the attacked failed. She should be kept somewhere where she can't do any harm. But immediately execute her for an assumed role in the Hobus event? There's no logical ground for such a decision since the entire event goes beyond our understanding.
I'm not going to say that Sela isn't a maniak. She obviously is. But there's too many people here who seem to have forgotten that just because Sela triggered something in the past, after having experienced the destruction of her homeworld by the Iconians in the present, doesn't make her responsible for the entire war or even the destruction of Romulus itself.
I do suspect that if Sela hadn't betrayed the Iconians, there would a) be more survivors and b) be no act of treachery marring the kindness of the Other. I'm sure T'Ket would still be a problem but perhaps she'd be reined in more by her sisters.
Game-wise Cryptic can't do that because of the enormous disruption to the timeline that would result in, but I do think Sela has to be punished for all that she has done, and executed as a matter of public safety since the danger of allowing her to live, even incarcerated, is demonstrably FAR too great to be tolerated again.
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Only 12 of them and they caused all that turmoil, yawn what a letdown.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
I didn't even realise it was the end and then all of a sudden we were at the whole conclusion that could be summed up as "Woops, soz!" and then it's over.
We know the Preservers were in the process of giving us something.
My guess would be that the Preservers would have information that could have helped us win a conventional war against them. The Preservers didn't want to give anyone weapons, but it might not have been weapons, or they might think differently if they need to stop the Iconians eradicating some of the many races the Preservers created.
Maybe they could have reverted the physical alterations to the Iconians or Heralds (since they know the original genome) - that wouldn't kill them, but depower them considerably.
Why it was T'Mara specifically that did it - she drew the short straw? I don't think we know much about T'Ket personality and motiviation before House of Pegh, so it is difficult to say whether Khaless changed anything about it.
Thank you for your explanation i think i finally understand this whole thing now.
Most unexpectedly, this turned into a flame-fest! Closed it goes!. /sigh What flamefestery is this? pwlaughingtrendy
Kinda makes sense since I see M'Tara being the "ego" to T'ket's "id" and L'Miren's "superego". She had T'ket's pride and fury with L'Miren's cautiousness and reason combined into one. Kinda represented both of them. Made her death in "Broken Circle" that much more effective at throwing them out of balance.
Speaking of T'Ket, since this hasn't been answered, since she's still at war with the Alpha and Beta quadrants, how much of a threat does she still command? Out of the stated "billions" of Heralds, how many are hers, and would M'Tara's former Heralds go with her? Even at a maximum sixth of the size it was, the Iconian army is still strong enough to wipe the floor with us, potentially. Then again, L'Miren seemed to think or indicate we could handle T'Ket.