EDIT: We also learned that Kurland is still here XD
I laughed way too much when that happened. I got the sense there were one or two meta references in this episode along those lines that the makers threw in. I forget them now, but I remember thinking when going to the Iconia park.
*******************************************
A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
The one thing I did not like was the line where the Iconian (l'miren or something) basically said oh snap, I remember you now.
To be fair, L'Miren and T'Ket only saw the PC for like 30 seconds in the middle of a group of soldiers that killed M'Tara, 200 millennia after we met the first time, so I can understand their...forgetfulness. And during the war, M'Tara only ever saw the PC in the middle of large groups.
As can I to an extent. She gets a pass for not remembering me personally, but at least remember human and klingon. They remembered Sela and Romulans!
Maybe T'Ket's thirst for vengeance fueled his memory while the others did not remember things so well. He was already close to being "evil" Iconian before the destruction of their homeworld. So maybe he knew who we were, but just did not care to inform the others because he wanted war.
You know, T'Ket calling Sela a Romulan before the species even existed is probably the only glaring inconsistency in the mission people have been pointing out.
But I thought about it a bit, and I have an idea.
The manner T'Ket names Sela, specifically pointing out her treachery (a trait Romulans are rather infamous for), the way her words drip with menace, and then naming her with a word that she supposedly shouldn't know.....
..... makes me wonder if the word "Romulan" isn't somehow actually an Iconian word in and of itself.
The Iconians, being ancient explorers themselves, could have potentially visited Vulcan in the past, maybe even influenced the language a bit while examining the locals. It's already been pointed out that the Iconians have had such a direct influence on other species before. What if the influence over the ancient Vulcans was a bit more subtle?
I dunno, it's a thought. I kinda dig the idea.
If anything, the ending really was more about Sela coming to terms about herself than the end of the Iconian War. Should she have to answer for Hobus? I don't think so. There is the issue as to how the Iconians knew of the Romulans. My speculation is that when Kragan arrived he mentioned the others he was searching out, including--if not specifically--Sela. Who then is responsible for the destruction of Hobus? The answer belongs to a chain of people: Guinan, Picard, Yar, Sela, Kagran...basically everyone who had a hand in allowing Tasha Yar to birth Sela to those who had contact with Sela up to Midnight. Life after Midnight for the Romulans should be the end of the Tal Shiar and the Romulan Republic being the formal and official government of the Romulan people. If anything, Sela should be exiled from New Romulus and perhaps be granted asylum in the Federation. I could see Sela working with Franklin Drake and Section 31. However, she can never really return to being a Romulan Citizen.
The fireworks and celebration seemed a little cheap right at that moment. I mean I know everyone would be happy the war was over, but the treaty was literally signed seconds ago. You are probably the only person (or at least one of the few) that knows about it, and being beamed down right then with fireworks?
In my headcanon that final negotiation abord the Iconian ship was transmitted live all over the quadrants. If you truly want to be left alone you better make sure everyone knows that.
Or another simpler possibility is that Kagran told T'Ket the species of Sela before immediately remembering that they didn't exist at this time when T'Ket and L'Miren asked "What is a Romulan? We have no data on such species" and the General just went "Oh, nevermind, but if you see a annoying pointy-eared, two-eyed alien with outrageous clothes and ridges on her head with 5 more aliens with her, please tell them to find me, thanks."
That often happens in time-travelling stories where one character unconsciously says or does something that exists in their time but not in the one they're currently, like how Sisko tapped his badge in Tribbles and Tribulations to try and communicate.
In all honesty, I disliked the ending. It felt so Anti-Climatic many of us were waiting for an epic fight for over 5 years.
People talk about it feeling like a Trekish ending, with compassion. But yet how many Star Trek Movies ended with an epic battles to resolve the story?
WoK = Death of Khan
ST3 = Death of Kruge
ST5 = "Death of god"
ST6 = Death of Chang
Generations = Death of Soran
First Contact = Death of the Borg Queen
Insurrection = Death of Ru'afo
Nemesis = Death of Shinzon
This is what was expected with the Iconians (especially since this is an MMO). Not, "here's your ball back. Remember me? Let's talk."
Okay so eight movies where the villan died/was killed, against how many tv episodes where conflict was ended by compassion and cooperation? Because there's certainly more than eight of those.
Over all I liked this episode. It went much better than I had both hoped and feared it would. (And apparently my paranoia about Noye was unfounded, I apologise for that). Over all it felt far more like Star Trek than many of the game episodes and it was a nice lead in to the next season.
So this is an episode I won't mind grinding. (Which is good since I want most of the stuff on four different characters, but then that's me )
I was also looking for a epic battle but then I got to thinking. How epic could it have really been. I mean, we got the same old phasers, the same old torpedoes, the same pew pew and boom boom. No matter how you slice it. Cryptic couldn't have made the battle that we imagined with the same old TRIBBLE that were always looking at. They went out the right way, I guess. If they would have tried the battle way, we would have been more disappointed than we are right now.
Well that was anti-climactic...seriously Cryptic, five years and THAT'S how you end it? Shame. For the most part I loved the mission, though I figured out that the player was "The Other" when it was mentioned that we would go back in time. But really!? I pop into the academy to and only a few people and a couple of general conversations are what I get for five years!? WORST ENDING EVER! Give me an entire missions worth of just talking to everyone we dealt with these past five years, ratifying the treaty with the Iconians and a HUGE party, but nope, none of that. LAZY!
Well that was anti-climactic...seriously Cryptic, five years and THAT'S how you end it? Shame. For the most part I loved the mission, though I figured out that the player was "The Other" when it was mentioned that we would go back in time. But really!? I pop into the academy to and only a few people and a couple of general conversations are what I get for five years!? WORST ENDING EVER! Give me an entire missions worth of just talking to everyone we dealt with these past five years, ratifying the treaty with the Iconians and a HUGE party, but nope, none of that. LAZY!
You know, T'Ket calling Sela a Romulan before the species even existed is probably the only glaring inconsistency in the mission people have been pointing out.
But I thought about it a bit, and I have an idea.
The manner T'Ket names Sela, specifically pointing out her treachery (a trait Romulans are rather infamous for), the way her words drip with menace, and then naming her with a word that she supposedly shouldn't know.....
..... makes me wonder if the word "Romulan" isn't somehow actually an Iconian word in and of itself.
The Iconians, being ancient explorers themselves, could have potentially visited Vulcan in the past, maybe even influenced the language a bit while examining the locals. It's already been pointed out that the Iconians have had such a direct influence on other species before. What if the influence over the ancient Vulcans was a bit more subtle?
I dunno, it's a thought. I kinda dig the idea.
I actually find this very interesting, and possible.. what if romulan means traitor in iconian?, that word passed to other lesser species.. like Vaadwaur... foolish??...
At least we didn't have Party Balls at the Academy for the celebration.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I was also looking for a epic battle but then I got to thinking. How epic could it have really been. I mean, we got the same old phasers, the same old torpedoes, the same pew pew and boom boom. No matter how you slice it. Cryptic couldn't have made the battle that we imagined with the same old TRIBBLE that were always looking at. They went out the right way, I guess. If they would have tried the battle way, we would have been more disappointed than we are right now.
They easily could've gotten an epic fight if they thought out of the box. It's a flagship, have it start off coming out of the gate, doing a number on the Alliance ships (1, 2-shotting), then you gather the fleet and attack it, futily. You have somekind of NPC control (that's scripted) and you go "focus on the shield generators" or something like that. All while the time ship is preparing the portal. Then do a classic "head for the portal, NOW!"
Or the flagship appears and you're transported onboard and has to battle T'ket (without the BOFFs) and you survive by solving a puzzle that's the terrain itself. Then you're last minute rescued, just in time to enter the portal (classic Trek style).
Thier lack of imagination and the lack of tools that expands the experience greatly limits them, that's why STO is all about PEW PEW than battle of negotiations.
I liked it. Too many spoilers out already so I will not add to them. But as with the revamp of the KDF Tutorial, the Devs showed what they can do when pointed in the right direction and given the proper guidance. Not quite the ending I expected. And it does play to some very over used themes and ideas. However, this is not always a bad thing. It was fun and enjoyable to play and for a wonder, it did not go buggy or laggy on me. Other players apparently had the usual FE experience with lockups and lag and bugs though.
To borrow a phrase from one of my favorite films, "Not too bad. Not too bad at all."
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
If anything, the ending really was more about Sela coming to terms about herself than the end of the Iconian War.
I think this really just shines a light on what STO as a whole is about. For as much cannon fodder as we put down it's really about the people, not the battles.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Cryptic has drawn up so many questionable moral decisions throughout this storyline... I was SO satisfying to see them assert a good ol' ENDS DON'T JUSTIFY MEANS moral decision to save the day.
Love it. This is a major victory for the good guys!
I enjoyed the episode - (the Republic perspective is the only one I've played, but seen Fed) - we work to break the cycle of violence, time travel isn't a magic button, exactly, nice voice acting, we got to see the flagships, and even Kurland was here. I approve of how they structured it morally as well, and I liked the ancient architecture.
Fate - protects fools, small children, and ships named Enterprise Will Riker
Member Access Denied Armada!
My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
1. THIS is how you write Klingons. DO THIS MORE!
2. Episode felt waaaay too James Cameron's Avatar-ish to me
3. Dev drops and special nods in this episode were kind of awesome.
We don't want what the Feds have. We want the equivalent. We want fairer treatment. Concern, desire, greed to some extent, and passionate belief that the enough people would buy KDF items to make it worth Cryptic's while.
In all honesty, I disliked the ending. It felt so Anti-Climatic many of us were waiting for an epic fight for over 5 years.
The Iconian arc is like the classic movie Brazil.
It doesn't give the audience the climax they're accustomed to. In fact it does the opposite and makes a MUCH better point in doing it (which you only really see in the last minute or two of its run-time).
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
The arc has been nice except for some lack of immersion with patrols and such, but this final episode was especially good. A nice trek themed ending that utilizes that 700 mil ec ship for something so it didn't feel like a complete waste. ;P
I enjoyed the art and story very much, although all the destruction and chaos still exists including the death of M'tara so the question is what will be left to rebuild? And perhaps more interestingly, will we encounter the Iconians again and if so how will they have reverted/changed? Oh and there is the T'ket thing which I feel is only to make the STF missions still make sense for new players.
best episode of the "war" by far... that said there were still some moments of REALLY TRIBBLE writing and holes you could pilot a borg cube through.... and Sela... why cant I kill her? arrest her? kick her head in so she's unconscious the whole mission?
oh and a special kudos to the devs.... that was a perfect 'kurland here' troll I nearly lost my ship cause I was laughing too much
This final ep made up for the dissapointing past few eps... wraps up things in a pretty Star Trek way... the ending feels like a nice segway into what is proposed for Season 11... taking things back to Star Trek roots of exploration, diplomacy, acts of compassion, morality, than just pew pew pew.
For my criticism of the ep... the way they shoehorned the Dominion at the last minute before going to their main destination... c'mon son. At least demo those new jem'hadar ships
You must read this post with Frieza's voice in your head.
200,000 years in the past and everybody, including the aliens whoms species are long extinct, speak English 198,500 years(give or take) before it's even created?! Am I the only one who noticed this?!
And if you can't detect the sarcasm in this post, spout something Kagran blahblahblah, Iconians are blahblahblah or anything to that effect, I'm going to blow your planet up.
The next question is, was that sarcasm?
the ending of the iconian war was a bit of a anti climax i was hoping we were not going to go back to the past and we would defeat the iconians in the present in a proper battle but thats just me what do did you guys think was it what you expected
if not want would have been a better ending
A few things have to be considered here.
First, this was a good episode. It has the exploration factor that must be demanded for a Trek game. I got that warm "first contact" feeling that I've wanted while playing this game. Talking to the ancient Iconians was interesting and enjoyable. The map was beautiful and fun to "explore."
Second, this entire season (before this episode) is a borderline disaster. It's generally uninteresting and playing through the episodes without reading the blogs makes you feel like you're jumping from one point to another with no rhyme or reason. At least this episode does a good job cleaning things up and tying up loose ends. Hell, they even gave a reason for Iconian queues to still be around with T'ket being unfazed.
Third, really? Win a proper battle? The Iconians are supposed to be invincible and you want to see them beaten in a straight up fight? It was clear that this would not happen. I was concerned because the buildup to this mission was eerily similar to the ending of Mass Effect 3. But the manner in which things end was generally clean despite being a little too optimistic for my taste.
All in all, I liked this episode, but I dislike the Iconian War story arc as a whole. Hopefully, we'll get back to basics in Season 11.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
Comments
I laughed way too much when that happened. I got the sense there were one or two meta references in this episode along those lines that the makers threw in. I forget them now, but I remember thinking when going to the Iconia park.
A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
As can I to an extent. She gets a pass for not remembering me personally, but at least remember human and klingon. They remembered Sela and Romulans!
Maybe T'Ket's thirst for vengeance fueled his memory while the others did not remember things so well. He was already close to being "evil" Iconian before the destruction of their homeworld. So maybe he knew who we were, but just did not care to inform the others because he wanted war.
But I thought about it a bit, and I have an idea.
The manner T'Ket names Sela, specifically pointing out her treachery (a trait Romulans are rather infamous for), the way her words drip with menace, and then naming her with a word that she supposedly shouldn't know.....
..... makes me wonder if the word "Romulan" isn't somehow actually an Iconian word in and of itself.
The Iconians, being ancient explorers themselves, could have potentially visited Vulcan in the past, maybe even influenced the language a bit while examining the locals. It's already been pointed out that the Iconians have had such a direct influence on other species before. What if the influence over the ancient Vulcans was a bit more subtle?
I dunno, it's a thought. I kinda dig the idea.
I originally went in thinking it was going to be pretty bad, but it wasn't and made a lot of sense.
The twist's were really good; some of the best writing from Cryptic.
That often happens in time-travelling stories where one character unconsciously says or does something that exists in their time but not in the one they're currently, like how Sisko tapped his badge in Tribbles and Tribulations to try and communicate.
I was also looking for a epic battle but then I got to thinking. How epic could it have really been. I mean, we got the same old phasers, the same old torpedoes, the same pew pew and boom boom. No matter how you slice it. Cryptic couldn't have made the battle that we imagined with the same old TRIBBLE that were always looking at. They went out the right way, I guess. If they would have tried the battle way, we would have been more disappointed than we are right now.
But there were fireworks
I actually find this very interesting, and possible.. what if romulan means traitor in iconian?, that word passed to other lesser species.. like Vaadwaur... foolish??...
Also, Kurland is here...
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
They easily could've gotten an epic fight if they thought out of the box. It's a flagship, have it start off coming out of the gate, doing a number on the Alliance ships (1, 2-shotting), then you gather the fleet and attack it, futily. You have somekind of NPC control (that's scripted) and you go "focus on the shield generators" or something like that. All while the time ship is preparing the portal. Then do a classic "head for the portal, NOW!"
Or the flagship appears and you're transported onboard and has to battle T'ket (without the BOFFs) and you survive by solving a puzzle that's the terrain itself. Then you're last minute rescued, just in time to enter the portal (classic Trek style).
Thier lack of imagination and the lack of tools that expands the experience greatly limits them, that's why STO is all about PEW PEW than battle of negotiations.
To borrow a phrase from one of my favorite films, "Not too bad. Not too bad at all."
I think this really just shines a light on what STO as a whole is about. For as much cannon fodder as we put down it's really about the people, not the battles.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Kagran wants you to hug an Iconian .
If you're so inclined , hug an Iconian .
If you or your character are not very interested in hugging an Iconian, you're screwed .
p.s. don't smoke what Kagran's smoking .
Love it. This is a major victory for the good guys!
Member Access Denied Armada!
My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
1. THIS is how you write Klingons. DO THIS MORE!
2. Episode felt waaaay too James Cameron's Avatar-ish to me
3. Dev drops and special nods in this episode were kind of awesome.
The Iconian arc is like the classic movie Brazil.
It doesn't give the audience the climax they're accustomed to. In fact it does the opposite and makes a MUCH better point in doing it (which you only really see in the last minute or two of its run-time).
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
I enjoyed the art and story very much, although all the destruction and chaos still exists including the death of M'tara so the question is what will be left to rebuild? And perhaps more interestingly, will we encounter the Iconians again and if so how will they have reverted/changed? Oh and there is the T'ket thing which I feel is only to make the STF missions still make sense for new players.
oh and a special kudos to the devs.... that was a perfect 'kurland here' troll
Thanks for the lol.
200,000 years in the past and everybody, including the aliens whoms species are long extinct, speak English 198,500 years(give or take) before it's even created?! Am I the only one who noticed this?!
The next question is, was that sarcasm?
First, this was a good episode. It has the exploration factor that must be demanded for a Trek game. I got that warm "first contact" feeling that I've wanted while playing this game. Talking to the ancient Iconians was interesting and enjoyable. The map was beautiful and fun to "explore."
Second, this entire season (before this episode) is a borderline disaster. It's generally uninteresting and playing through the episodes without reading the blogs makes you feel like you're jumping from one point to another with no rhyme or reason. At least this episode does a good job cleaning things up and tying up loose ends. Hell, they even gave a reason for Iconian queues to still be around with T'ket being unfazed.
Third, really? Win a proper battle? The Iconians are supposed to be invincible and you want to see them beaten in a straight up fight? It was clear that this would not happen. I was concerned because the buildup to this mission was eerily similar to the ending of Mass Effect 3. But the manner in which things end was generally clean despite being a little too optimistic for my taste.
All in all, I liked this episode, but I dislike the Iconian War story arc as a whole. Hopefully, we'll get back to basics in Season 11.