I liked the ending found it nice, though had hoped it might have been someone else, or even the Klingon that came with us that was the "other" which saved them. Which it kinda was he was the voice of reason in a way. I also like that we might see a seperation/civil war type arc with the Iconians between the remaining Iconians over how they will proceed. Which could lead into arcs an episodes in which T'ket is a long term villian/enemy of the kdf/roms/feds either till we change her mind (a very long and poor posibility) or we finnally kill her which is unlikely as they now know we are a force to be reckoned with an not underestimated. She might even ally with some fo the renegade Iconians an use the shadows an sevators to seek dominating the quads again later on.
You must read this post with Frieza's voice in your head.
200,000 years in the past and everybody, including the aliens whoms species are long extinct, speak English 198,500 years(give or take) before it's even created?! Am I the only one who noticed this?!
And if you can't detect the sarcasm in this post, spout something Kagran blahblahblah, Iconians are blahblahblah or anything to that effect, I'm going to blow your planet up.
The next question is, was that sarcasm?
What part of 'their language is already in the Universal Translators because they exist in our own time and have deciphered their language and writings so the UT presents it in English' did you miss!?
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
You must read this post with Frieza's voice in your head.
200,000 years in the past and everybody, including the aliens whoms species are long extinct, speak English 198,500 years(give or take) before it's even created?! Am I the only one who noticed this?!
And if you can't detect the sarcasm in this post, spout something Kagran blahblahblah, Iconians are blahblahblah or anything to that effect, I'm going to blow your planet up.
The next question is, was that sarcasm?
What part of 'their language is already in the Universal Translators because they exist in our own time and have deciphered their language and writings so the UT presents it in English' did you miss!?
*blows up leem's planet*
What's to say modern Iconian is the same as ancient Iconian?
You must read this post with Frieza's voice in your head.
200,000 years in the past and everybody, including the aliens whoms species are long extinct, speak English 198,500 years(give or take) before it's even created?! Am I the only one who noticed this?!
And if you can't detect the sarcasm in this post, spout something Kagran blahblahblah, Iconians are blahblahblah or anything to that effect, I'm going to blow your planet up.
The next question is, was that sarcasm?
What part of 'their language is already in the Universal Translators because they exist in our own time and have deciphered their language and writings so the UT presents it in English' did you miss!?
*blows up leem's planet*
What's to say modern Iconian is the same as ancient Iconian?
Because it's literally the same Iconians speaking it.
Kagaran just showed the most honor I've seen from a Klingon since Worf.
After holding the idiot ball through the whole game, it was the least he could do. MAYBE the Klingons have a chance to evolve if he can actually do as he promised.
Of course remember that per ENT, the Klingons have (probably) a century or so of independence left before becoming members of the Federation. It may be that in enough time they will realize that the "old ways" are quite simply unsustainable if they want to survive.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
This was one of the first episodes in a long time that I actually enjoyed. But, and I haven’t seen this discussed yet, there is an glaring issue with the timeship.
Why did the timeship have to come to the battle of Sol? I mean, earth orbit is hundreds of light years from iconia. If it was able to make the time portal go directly from Earth > Iconia, why did it have t enter the battle? It could have done it next to the time station, in orbit of DS9, in the gamma quadrant, from inside the solonae sphere, any number of much safer places. Why did it have to do it in earth orbit? this was not sufficiently explained.
We could have had the battle for Sol, then the player has to warp to another location to actually use the time portal, the whole thing in earth orbit a distraction, etc.
This was one of the first episodes in a long time that I actually enjoyed. But, and I haven’t seen this discussed yet, there is an glaring issue with the timeship.
Why did the timeship have to come to the battle of Sol? I mean, earth orbit is hundreds of light years from iconia. If it was able to make the time portal go directly from Earth > Iconia, why did it have t enter the battle? It could have done it next to the time station, in orbit of DS9, in the gamma quadrant, from inside the solonae sphere, any number of much safer places. Why did it have to do it in earth orbit? this was not sufficiently explained.
We could have had the battle for Sol, then the player has to warp to another location to actually use the time portal, the whole thing in earth orbit a distraction, etc.
I mean i liked the episode, but that bothered me
Same thing the Borg did in first contact. To paraphrase the Lord Plinkett, they had the most devastating weapon ever. A time weapon. But they chose to fly it to Earth, where an entire fleet was waiting to fire phasers and photons at it. Why not go back in time literally anywhere else, and then go to Earth. I don't think the International Space Station would have been up for the challenge.
Well, I think it would have been more dangerous to have it linger around almost alone, somewhere, especially with Gate Technology...
So instead they brought it to where most/all Alliance Ships were to be able to actually protect it, even it if was the Battle of Sol.
And probably the Iconians would not think that the "End-Weapon" would be brought directly there.
Kagran just showed the most honor I've seen from a Klingon since Worf.
Still, I don't get it how the Klingon with least Klingon-ish attitude ended up as allied supreme commander. Either he's a politician and not a warrior, or more probably he was specifically requested by the Federation ("ok, we agree to give command to a Klingon, but we choose which one"). Most Klingons in command positions we met so far are like Koren ("we come in war, shoot to kill"), not anything like Kagran.
EDIT: We also learned that Kurland is still here XD
I laughed way too much when that happened. I got the sense there were one or two meta references in this episode along those lines that the makers threw in. I forget them now, but I remember thinking when going to the Iconia park.
i was so expecting some one too ask where sulu was during the battle. i am disappointed no one did
Why did T'Ket call Sela a "Romulan" and vow to get revenge on the Romulan people if we were 200,000 years in the past and the Romulans didn't even exist until after the Sundering, which only took place about 2,000 years ago?
The only thing that would have made sense (and would be extremely easy to achieve) was if, while shooting at them, Sela yelled something like "This is for Romulus, and for all the Romulans you murdered". T'ket would easily remember those words. But the way it went, T'ket calling Sela a "Romulan" comes out of nowhere.
Why did T'Ket call Sela a "Romulan" and vow to get revenge on the Romulan people if we were 200,000 years in the past and the Romulans didn't even exist until after the Sundering, which only took place about 2,000 years ago?
The only thing that would have made sense (and would be extremely easy to achieve) was if, while shooting at them, Sela yelled something like "This is for Romulus, and for all the Romulans you murdered". T'ket would easily remember those words. But the way it went, T'ket calling Sela a "Romulan" comes out of nowhere.
Did anyone else facepalm when Sela goes on a shooting rampage at the Iconian gate ? I figured my toon would step in and stop her fairly quickly, but she just... kept... on... shooting like a maniac, at one point I thought, "omg, is someone going to step in here...?" (seemed like it went on way too long) finally after taking down a bunch of fleeing Iconians, KAGRAN of all people (a Klingon) steps in to stop her ! That surprised me big time ! I thought I would be the one to stop her !
Anyway I did enjoy the episode a lot, except that little moment that seemed to go on way too long.
As for the Iconians knowing who Romulans were.. well that could be remedied with your suggestion.
The ending was good, but I nearly put my fist through the screen when the time travel plan was mentioned. At this point I've already been back in time more often than Kirk and that was without using any of my three timeships. Can anyone tell me why we bothered with that Krenim boondoggle in the first place?
The Iconia map was excellent despite it probably being single use, and the Iconians themselves must have pretty impressive tech if they cured Kagran of his idiot syndrome.
"Thanks for getting our ball back mister. Mum's calling us now, we need to go home."
The very end felt rushed to me, and I can't say I liked the firework display at the academy. I would have preferred a more somber scene like that of the end of the Dominion war. Tallying the losses, picking through wreckage for pods or survivors. Something to make me think "damn, we were lucky to survive that."
"Thanks for getting our ball back mister. Mum's calling us now, we need to go home."
The very end felt rushed to me, and I can't say I liked the firework display at the academy. I would have preferred a more somber scene like that of the end of the Dominion war. Tallying the losses, picking through wreckage for pods or survivors. Something to make me think "damn, we were lucky to survive that."
That was very weird. The war ended seconds ago, ships are crippled and possibly going critical, ESD is a burning wreck, people by the tens of thousands are likely dead. But we have fireworks!
The episode was nice, but deeply flawed. The iconians had to do this war to avoid the a time paradox. Did they have to create the Hobus incident? Sure, they did, without it there would be no Romulan Republic, no captain Jarok...so on. No messing around with the Undine, the borg would rule Romulus, kill you when you TRIBBLE M'tara, no one to go back in time to be The Other, destroy the Fed 100.000 years ago, no The Other. They had one chance, play along and hope you don't listen to Sela. And when you (the tune) say at the end, this war was not suposed to happen...really? think about it, why did you go back in time..... and "now i remeber you" Yeah, they remember Sela being a romulan, but not your tune.... really?
"Thanks for getting our ball back mister. Mum's calling us now, we need to go home."
The very end felt rushed to me, and I can't say I liked the firework display at the academy. I would have preferred a more somber scene like that of the end of the Dominion war. Tallying the losses, picking through wreckage for pods or survivors. Something to make me think "damn, we were lucky to survive that."
Yep, the "party" was too fast to happen, considering that 10 minutes ago ships and people were still burning and blowing up all around the Earth.
That part requires a rewrite (it would be easy to do so, it's just the last part, remove fireworks, add some escape pods entering atmosphere, and tone the mood down a bit, maybe add a cutscene in orbit with surviving ships that assist damaged ships from different species). It's too overjoyous considering all the losses, we didn't win an interstellar football championship, we just barely survived a devastating war.
"Thanks for getting our ball back mister. Mum's calling us now, we need to go home."
The very end felt rushed to me, and I can't say I liked the firework display at the academy. I would have preferred a more somber scene like that of the end of the Dominion war. Tallying the losses, picking through wreckage for pods or survivors. Something to make me think "damn, we were lucky to survive that."
That was very weird. The war ended seconds ago, ships are crippled and possibly going critical, ESD is a burning wreck, people by the tens of thousands are likely dead. But we have fireworks!
Actually, ESD was one thing that had me scratching my head. It wasn't even remotely as badly damaged as it was in 'Surface Tension' - I guess the evacuation etc could have been a result of Herald's 'porting' onto the station, but that was never stated (not that I saw, anyway).
I mean, ESD was blasted into three seperate pieces in Surface Tension....
New ESD is a lot more durable then the Old ESD, according to the fictional tooltip I just made up, the new incarnation of ESD has; +30 Structural Integrity, +30 Armor Plating, +30 Shield Emitters and +20 All Damage Resist. :P
That's what I told myself while thinking the same thing
I honestly hope we get a proper end scene later. I mean, there is a limited amount of stuff they can cram in an episode.
But it would be cool if we could get a treaty signing with the Iconians, a memorial for the fallen, and a proper party.
Same thing the Borg did in first contact. To paraphrase the Lord Plinkett, they had the most devastating weapon ever. A time weapon. But they chose to fly it to Earth, where an entire fleet was waiting to fire phasers and photons at it. Why not go back in time literally anywhere else, and then go to Earth. I don't think the International Space Station would have been up for the challenge.
Well in First contact it was implied they could only move back in time and not in space. And probably it was a one shot thing.
Of course next year they filmed the Annorax episode which was much more sophisticated. Annorax operated his ship out of space-time so basically everything (space, location and time) was meaningless for him.
You know, T'Ket calling Sela a Romulan before the species even existed is probably the only glaring inconsistency in the mission people have been pointing out.
But I thought about it a bit, and I have an idea.
The manner T'Ket names Sela, specifically pointing out her treachery (a trait Romulans are rather infamous for), the way her words drip with menace, and then naming her with a word that she supposedly shouldn't know.....
..... makes me wonder if the word "Romulan" isn't somehow actually an Iconian word in and of itself.
The Iconians, being ancient explorers themselves, could have potentially visited Vulcan in the past, maybe even influenced the language a bit while examining the locals. It's already been pointed out that the Iconians have had such a direct influence on other species before. What if the influence over the ancient Vulcans was a bit more subtle?
I dunno, it's a thought. I kinda dig the idea.
"Romulan" is derived from "Romulus" which is a name from ancient human mythology. "Rihannsu" (the Romulans' name for themselves and their old homeworld) might be Iconian in origin but "Romulan" wouldn't be.
"Thanks for getting our ball back mister. Mum's calling us now, we need to go home."
The very end felt rushed to me, and I can't say I liked the firework display at the academy. I would have preferred a more somber scene like that of the end of the Dominion war. Tallying the losses, picking through wreckage for pods or survivors. Something to make me think "damn, we were lucky to survive that."
Yep, the "party" was too fast to happen, considering that 10 minutes ago ships and people were still burning and blowing up all around the Earth.
To be fair, those few seconds/minutes were from the player's perspective behind the proverbial fourth wall. We do not know (because, alas, we were never told) how much time passed between the scene on the Iconian bridge and the final scene at the Academy. All we know is that, at some point in between, the player's allies all had to sign off on the treaty ending the war (something the player's toon mentions in dialogue but we never got to see), so that had to account for some missing time.
As for the fireworks, the fireworks show at Voyager's homecoming-that-never-happened in "Endgame" was much bigger than the piddly little display we got here. Maybe they decided they wanted to do some kind of token celebration but not a huge one.
Same thing the Borg did in first contact. To paraphrase the Lord Plinkett, they had the most devastating weapon ever. A time weapon. But they chose to fly it to Earth, where an entire fleet was waiting to fire phasers and photons at it. Why not go back in time literally anywhere else, and then go to Earth. I don't think the International Space Station would have been up for the challenge.
In First Contact, I got the impression that time travel was their Plan B; otherwise they could have indeed done it while still in Delta Quadrant.
As for this mission, remember that the timeship still had to be within a fairly short range of its target in order to fire. Since the targets in this case - the player and a few friends - were at Earth making the Feds' last stand, that's where the timeship had to be too.
All that said, I do believe Cryptic has telegraphed some of the plot points for Season 11. We know there's supposed to be a new planet as an adventure zone; the ending of "Midnight" suggests that's going to be Iconia, rebuilt using the World Heart. Though they originally said not to bother them for another thousand years or so, presumably something's going to go wrong, leading the Iconians to reach out to their "Other" (i.e. the player) for assistance. That's also probably why they left T'Ket as a menace, not so much to justify the existing queues (as others have suggested) as to provide fodder for future storylines and queues.
Even a few missions or such in which you fly around the sol system an earth seeking out pods an scanning wrackage would be nice to give some feel of a long war an unsure battle that took its tole on your forces. Maybe have some ship wrackages an such hanging around earth's orbit, and periodic shotting stars (actually wrackage falling into the atmoshere) that shot thru the sky for awhile. Could make it that you can do options missions to help remove wrackage from the orbits of several of the main hub worlds even as well, with others being for bringing relief to the war-torn an battered worlds around the quads. I think that would be actually really be nice an give a feel of the war coming to an end an reconstruction starting, also a feel of how torn the quad was from the war by how much help is needed, if you made the rewards for such mission worth while good mark amounts an dil they could be very popular.
I honestly hope we get a proper end scene later. I mean, there is a limited amount of stuff they can cram in an episode.
But it would be cool if we could get a treaty signing with the Iconians, a memorial for the fallen, and a proper party.
L'Mirren already told us that they won't sign a treaty. They just want to go home and be left alone for a few thousand years.
What I would like after this is another blog detailing how much exactly we have lost. A final butcher's bill, basically.
@mustrumridcully0: So, because the Iconians said, "Oops, my bad," we're suddenly supposed to forgive and forget? I will remind you that despite Odo’s act of compassion the female Changeling still served 34 years in prison for crimes against sentience.
No. Regardless of their motives the Iconians have billions of innocent lives on their hands, people that never considered raising a hand against them in their lives. No free passes for mass murder. Now, if they want to pay their debt to society by using the Heralds to rebuild the galaxy and by stopping T’Ket for us, that's one thing. But let's not forget that there IS a debt.
As for Sela? She gets the firing squad. She's been nothing but trouble for the galaxy since she was four gorram years old.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
To be fair, those few seconds/minutes were from the player's perspective behind the proverbial fourth wall. We do not know (because, alas, we were never told) how much time passed between the scene on the Iconian bridge and the final scene at the Academy. All we know is that, at some point in between, the player's allies all had to sign off on the treaty ending the war (something the player's toon mentions in dialogue but we never got to see), so that had to account for some missing time.
We do know, because at the end of the scene on the Iconian bridge, we "poof" out by Iconian gate unexpectedly, not by our usual means (teleport). When we appear in the Academy, i don't remember if we "poof" in with the same FX, but still it is evident (looking around puzzled) that we have no clue where we are and what are we doing there. So the two events seem directly connected. If time had actually passed, the whole scene is terribly designed (there should be an explanatory cutscene in the middle).
Comments
IKR?
Kagaran just showed the most honor I've seen from a Klingon since Worf.
What part of 'their language is already in the Universal Translators because they exist in our own time and have deciphered their language and writings so the UT presents it in English' did you miss!?
What's to say modern Iconian is the same as ancient Iconian?
My character Tsin'xing
Because it's literally the same Iconians speaking it.
After holding the idiot ball through the whole game, it was the least he could do. MAYBE the Klingons have a chance to evolve if he can actually do as he promised.
Of course remember that per ENT, the Klingons have (probably) a century or so of independence left before becoming members of the Federation. It may be that in enough time they will realize that the "old ways" are quite simply unsustainable if they want to survive.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Why did the timeship have to come to the battle of Sol? I mean, earth orbit is hundreds of light years from iconia. If it was able to make the time portal go directly from Earth > Iconia, why did it have t enter the battle? It could have done it next to the time station, in orbit of DS9, in the gamma quadrant, from inside the solonae sphere, any number of much safer places. Why did it have to do it in earth orbit? this was not sufficiently explained.
We could have had the battle for Sol, then the player has to warp to another location to actually use the time portal, the whole thing in earth orbit a distraction, etc.
I mean i liked the episode, but that bothered me
Same thing the Borg did in first contact. To paraphrase the Lord Plinkett, they had the most devastating weapon ever. A time weapon. But they chose to fly it to Earth, where an entire fleet was waiting to fire phasers and photons at it. Why not go back in time literally anywhere else, and then go to Earth. I don't think the International Space Station would have been up for the challenge.
So instead they brought it to where most/all Alliance Ships were to be able to actually protect it, even it if was the Battle of Sol.
And probably the Iconians would not think that the "End-Weapon" would be brought directly there.
Still, I don't get it how the Klingon with least Klingon-ish attitude ended up as allied supreme commander. Either he's a politician and not a warrior, or more probably he was specifically requested by the Federation ("ok, we agree to give command to a Klingon, but we choose which one"). Most Klingons in command positions we met so far are like Koren ("we come in war, shoot to kill"), not anything like Kagran.
i was so expecting some one too ask where sulu was during the battle. i am disappointed no one did
The only thing that would have made sense (and would be extremely easy to achieve) was if, while shooting at them, Sela yelled something like "This is for Romulus, and for all the Romulans you murdered". T'ket would easily remember those words. But the way it went, T'ket calling Sela a "Romulan" comes out of nowhere.
As for the Iconians knowing who Romulans were.. well that could be remedied with your suggestion.
The Iconia map was excellent despite it probably being single use, and the Iconians themselves must have pretty impressive tech if they cured Kagran of his idiot syndrome.
The very end felt rushed to me, and I can't say I liked the firework display at the academy. I would have preferred a more somber scene like that of the end of the Dominion war. Tallying the losses, picking through wreckage for pods or survivors. Something to make me think "damn, we were lucky to survive that."
That was very weird. The war ended seconds ago, ships are crippled and possibly going critical, ESD is a burning wreck, people by the tens of thousands are likely dead. But we have fireworks!
Yep, the "party" was too fast to happen, considering that 10 minutes ago ships and people were still burning and blowing up all around the Earth.
That part requires a rewrite (it would be easy to do so, it's just the last part, remove fireworks, add some escape pods entering atmosphere, and tone the mood down a bit, maybe add a cutscene in orbit with surviving ships that assist damaged ships from different species). It's too overjoyous considering all the losses, we didn't win an interstellar football championship, we just barely survived a devastating war.
New ESD is a lot more durable then the Old ESD, according to the fictional tooltip I just made up, the new incarnation of ESD has; +30 Structural Integrity, +30 Armor Plating, +30 Shield Emitters and +20 All Damage Resist. :P
That's what I told myself while thinking the same thing
But it would be cool if we could get a treaty signing with the Iconians, a memorial for the fallen, and a proper party.
Well in First contact it was implied they could only move back in time and not in space. And probably it was a one shot thing.
Of course next year they filmed the Annorax episode which was much more sophisticated. Annorax operated his ship out of space-time so basically everything (space, location and time) was meaningless for him.
"Romulan" is derived from "Romulus" which is a name from ancient human mythology. "Rihannsu" (the Romulans' name for themselves and their old homeworld) might be Iconian in origin but "Romulan" wouldn't be.
To be fair, those few seconds/minutes were from the player's perspective behind the proverbial fourth wall. We do not know (because, alas, we were never told) how much time passed between the scene on the Iconian bridge and the final scene at the Academy. All we know is that, at some point in between, the player's allies all had to sign off on the treaty ending the war (something the player's toon mentions in dialogue but we never got to see), so that had to account for some missing time.
As for the fireworks, the fireworks show at Voyager's homecoming-that-never-happened in "Endgame" was much bigger than the piddly little display we got here. Maybe they decided they wanted to do some kind of token celebration but not a huge one.
In First Contact, I got the impression that time travel was their Plan B; otherwise they could have indeed done it while still in Delta Quadrant.
As for this mission, remember that the timeship still had to be within a fairly short range of its target in order to fire. Since the targets in this case - the player and a few friends - were at Earth making the Feds' last stand, that's where the timeship had to be too.
All that said, I do believe Cryptic has telegraphed some of the plot points for Season 11. We know there's supposed to be a new planet as an adventure zone; the ending of "Midnight" suggests that's going to be Iconia, rebuilt using the World Heart. Though they originally said not to bother them for another thousand years or so, presumably something's going to go wrong, leading the Iconians to reach out to their "Other" (i.e. the player) for assistance. That's also probably why they left T'Ket as a menace, not so much to justify the existing queues (as others have suggested) as to provide fodder for future storylines and queues.
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What I would like after this is another blog detailing how much exactly we have lost. A final butcher's bill, basically.
No. Regardless of their motives the Iconians have billions of innocent lives on their hands, people that never considered raising a hand against them in their lives. No free passes for mass murder. Now, if they want to pay their debt to society by using the Heralds to rebuild the galaxy and by stopping T’Ket for us, that's one thing. But let's not forget that there IS a debt.
As for Sela? She gets the firing squad. She's been nothing but trouble for the galaxy since she was four gorram years old.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
We do know, because at the end of the scene on the Iconian bridge, we "poof" out by Iconian gate unexpectedly, not by our usual means (teleport). When we appear in the Academy, i don't remember if we "poof" in with the same FX, but still it is evident (looking around puzzled) that we have no clue where we are and what are we doing there. So the two events seem directly connected. If time had actually passed, the whole scene is terribly designed (there should be an explanatory cutscene in the middle).