To be fair, the Article states it would be "similar". To give us a frame of reference. Its too early to tell exactly what it will be, and whether or not it is something that I will enjoy.
Well we CAN guarantee one thing about this... no matter what it is or is not, how good it is or is not... once released the forums will be alive with the sounds of butthurt and nerd rage.
To be fair, the Article states it would be "similar". To give us a frame of reference. Its too early to tell exactly what it will be, and whether or not it is something that I will enjoy.
Well we CAN guarantee one thing about this... no matter what it is or is not, how good it is or is not... once released the forums will be alive with the sounds of butthurt and nerd rage.
No doubt. And nothing is funnier than people who are butthurt and nerd raging about other people being butthurt and nerd raging.
I have to admit, it is interesting how so many people didn't seem to read what I said in the OP:
Obviously we don't know the specific details of the system, but the above quote at least lets us know this is "similar" to the duty officer system, rather than having some kind of away team in space. So as a first reaction, do you like the idea of "doffing with ships"?
This poll is *NOT* asking for a final judgement on this system. It is asking for a first reaction to the general idea of a doff-like system using our old ships.
It kind of depends. Worst case scenario (which I don't see happening) is that 'duty ships' (DShips? Dips? Let's go with Dips) would literally just occupy the same roster as our DOffs and their assignments would just be ship-specialized DOff assignments. More likely, I expect a 'copy-paste' of the existing DOff system, which means more virtual paperwork, but more rewards, and I like rewards.
Also, honestly? I kinda like the virtual paperwork. I mean, if it's all STO were, it'd be boring as hell, but taking a few minutes to juggle DOff exchanges before donating them to fleet projects (conceptually giving enlistees and junior officers permanent postings) kinda makes me feel like an administrative flag officer, in the same way sending more experienced junior officers on assignments kind makes me feel like a captain dealing with the administrativa of starship command. If Dipping makes me feel like an admiral dealing with the administrativa of having a command with a scope beyond one ship--before I move on to actually flying my ship and generally 'playing the game' in the usual sense--then I weclome the addition.
It kind of depends. Worst case scenario (which I don't see happening) is that 'duty ships' (DShips? Dips? Let's go with Dips) would literally just occupy the same roster as our DOffs and their assignments would just be ship-specialized DOff assignments.
Um, they've already announced this will be using our unused ships, not some new type of "duty ships". No DOff slot roster, your actual unused ship that you've bought/obtained which occupy your actual ship slots.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
It kind of depends. Worst case scenario (which I don't see happening) is that 'duty ships' (DShips? Dips? Let's go with Dips) would literally just occupy the same roster as our DOffs and their assignments would just be ship-specialized DOff assignments.
Um, they've already announced this will be using our unused ships, not some new type of "duty ships". No DOff slot roster, your actual unused ship that you've bought/obtained which occupy your actual ship slots.
My mistake. The StarTrek.com piece wasn't clear, but the announcement on Arc does say 'inactive ships.' I just hope this doesn't mean I'll have to meaningfully equip an entire fleet's worth of ships...
My mistake. The StarTrek.com piece wasn't clear, but the announcement on Arc does say 'inactive ships.' I just hope this doesn't mean I'll have to meaningfully equip an entire fleet's worth of ships...
Keep in mind, it's also been said that missions will require up to three ships. Typically people are given 11 ships slots.
What are the chances this will be limited to three concurrent missions? What are the chances that ship tier won't come into play? What are the chances that ship class won't come into play? How many people will have multiple Tier 6 ships from all of the classes?
So... just going by the DOff system, in order to eek out anything of worth from the system you might very well be required to buy ship slots and several T6 ships, including some from ship classes you might normally not play ever. And yeah, maybe you'll have to outfit them all on top of it.
Imagine the cost in zen, ec and dilithium...
These are the things such a system can easily imply.
What's hysterical is that even if the worst case scenario isn't even close to true... what are the chances that Cryptic will tell us that in a timely manner? And of course given their history, when they give us information from which one can logically assume the worst, how much do want to bet ever so many of the developers act utterly surprised and confused when people start doing just that.
Cryptic is both terribly bad at PR and never, ever learns... and then just to rub it in, proceeds to blame the customer for it.
My mistake. The StarTrek.com piece wasn't clear, but the announcement on Arc does say 'inactive ships.' I just hope this doesn't mean I'll have to meaningfully equip an entire fleet's worth of ships...
Keep in mind, it's also been said that missions will require up to three ships. Typically people are given 11 ships slots.
What are the chances this will be limited to three concurrent missions?.
does nobody bother to actually read the sto news blog.
"Plan carefully which ships are sent on which assignment in order to meet their requirements and offset various hazards, in an effort to yield great rewards across any of three separate campaigns"
I think its pretty clear that means 3 missions per character, so regardless of how many ship slots you have 3 missions is the maximum number, so no use buying more slots and ships to get more missions.
having a greater number of ships will just give you a larger pool of ships to choose from.
what concerns me most about this is what do we gain for a mission success/crit-success and what do we loose for a fail/crit-fail, is this going to turn in to another 'upgrading style' dil sink lottery.
Post edited by bobbydazlers on
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
does nobody bother to actually read the sto news blog.
"Plan carefully which ships are sent on which assignment in order to meet their requirements and offset various hazards, in an effort to yield great rewards across any of three separate campaigns"
I think its pretty clear that means 3 missions per character, so regardless of how many ship slots you have 3 missions is the maximum number, so no use buying more slots and ships to get more missions.
That's not "pretty clear" at all, and is almost assuredly wrong.
A "campaign" by definition is a series of military operations, not one mission but a group of them aimed at a specific goal. It makes no sense to use that term to describe individual missions, only a collection of related missions. Expect the "campaign" to be a tiered progression system similar to DOffing chains, but more elaborate. Something like we see in Neverwinter's "Adventures" which the Admiralty system appears to be based on, which in turn was based originally on STO's own DOffing system.
does nobody bother to actually read the sto news blog.
"Plan carefully which ships are sent on which assignment in order to meet their requirements and offset various hazards, in an effort to yield great rewards across any of three separate campaigns"
I think its pretty clear that means 3 missions per character, so regardless of how many ship slots you have 3 missions is the maximum number, so no use buying more slots and ships to get more missions.
That's not "pretty clear" at all, and is almost assuredly wrong.
A "campaign" by definition is a series of military operations, not one mission but a group of them aimed at a specific goal. It makes no sense to use that term to describe individual missions, only a collection of related missions. Expect the "campaign" to be a tiered progression system similar to DOffing chains, but more elaborate. Something like we see in Neverwinter's "Adventures" which the Admiralty system appears to be based on, which in turn was based originally on STO's own DOffing system.
Not to disagree, but the truth is it doesn't even matter what the official definition of a word is, only what Cryptic's definition is. And we will just have to see what their version of that word means, in this system.
Not to disagree, but the truth is it doesn't even matter what the official definition of a word is, only what Cryptic's definition is. And we will just have to see what their version of that word means, in this system.
And you honestly believe that Cryptic is announcing the number of missions that can be run concurrently and not instead referring to variety of content in it's initial press release?
And if that were the case you don't think the term "across three separate campaigns" isn't... absurdly awkward?
And you don't think using the term campaign to (incorrectly) describe a single mission, after already establishing the term assignment to do so earlier in the same sentence is a bit odd?
And of course two sentences earlier...
Take command of your inactive starships to complete dangerous assignments and gather exciting rewards, while advancing your influence in the Admiralty campaigns.
... they use the same two terms. Again sending ships on assignments and... what, advancing your influence within those same individual missions you're completing in a one-off timer-based mission?
If you were a betting man... where exactly would you place your money here? Because while playing Devil's advocate is nice and all, Bobby's take on it almost certainly isn't where the smart money is.
I personally like the idea, whatever form it comes in. My satisfaction leven can only go up from the most basic premise of the idea.
Its something new and I like the idea of giving my drydocked ships a breather, regardless of the format it comes in. Plus I assume it comes with various perks and bonuses such as the current DOFF system so Im happy all the way so long as it works
"If this will be our end, then I will have them make SUCH an end as to be worthy of rememberance! Out of torpedos you say?! Find me the ferengi!".
Geko has made a few recent tweets on this subject. Apparently, the ships you are using for the admiralty system aren't *really* the inactive ships in your inventory. Instead, they are something like a doff that represents those ships you own:
I'll be reserving judgement until we get actual details, and further until we see if it is repeatedly nerfed like doffing.
[EDIT] First impression, though... sure, why not?
No, seriously, I want to know what's going to go wrong here.
Will the limited starship options of the KDF (and to a lesser extent Roms) leave players at an inherent disadvantage, or will missions not require or benefit from Tier, Specializations, and/or Science Ships (because we all love those amazing T6 Intel Science Ships the KDF and Roms have... )?
Will you lose boffs or even lock box ships on missions? (Oh... it's a card game with no real relation to our boffs or ships... yay I guess?)
Will we be gaining additional ship slots, and an increase in the maximum that can be purchased? (Assuming you actually get "cards" for the ships you own... or have owned?... rather than having these ship "cards" as mere variant doffs...?)
What will the rewards be, what will be the input requirements, will we have to "fuel" ships with dilithium, etc.?
And so on...
Personally, I'm going to be pessimistic about the whole thing so that whatever shows up should be better than I expected... because I want to like it.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
Sort of like DOffs... so probably pre-generated and distributed with ship purchases.
And yeah, this is obviously a lot more basic than they originally let on.
If you just get a card for owning a ship, and what you've done with that ship doesn't matter one wonders...
Will we even see our ship names on our cards? Are we getting a U.S.S Renown card for the one we have parked in dry dock, or just an "Intrepid Class" for buying a ship? We still do own dismissed ships, so do we get "cards" for those? And if so, where do those names get pulled from? And of course there's probably going to be pictures on the "cards" so without gear that picture isn't going to reflect how our actual ships look since you couldn't, say, see the effects of the borg set on them. And if that isn't reflected, will any customization be reflected? Like if you buy the Command Cruiser bundle and kit-bash something from the Command Cruisers will the "DOff" of the resulting ship reflect that? Or are we just getting generic "Presidio", generic "Geneva" and generic "Concorde" DOffs?
Is this going to reflect our actual ships at all, or just our purchase history from the C-Store?
Because, yeah... this doesn't seem to reflect what was advertised.
I'm going to go out on a speculative limb. Maybe it's going to be a bit like (but not identical to) the hireling adventure system in Neverwinter. Just a thought, with little more than a name and we can really do is guess blindly.
does nobody bother to actually read the sto news blog.
"Plan carefully which ships are sent on which assignment in order to meet their requirements and offset various hazards, in an effort to yield great rewards across any of three separate campaigns"
I think its pretty clear that means 3 missions per character, so regardless of how many ship slots you have 3 missions is the maximum number, so no use buying more slots and ships to get more missions.
That's not "pretty clear" at all, and is almost assuredly wrong.
A "campaign" by definition is a series of military operations, not one mission but a group of them aimed at a specific goal. It makes no sense to use that term to describe individual missions, only a collection of related missions. Expect the "campaign" to be a tiered progression system similar to DOffing chains, but more elaborate. Something like we see in Neverwinter's "Adventures" which the Admiralty system appears to be based on, which in turn was based originally on STO's own DOffing system.
you are correct A "campaign" (singular) by definition is a series of military operations however the words - three separate "campaigns" (plural) clearly points to there being three individual missions at any one time whether some of them be individually part of collection of related missions that you may get at a later time or whether they be stand alone missions or in fact each mission a campaign in it`s own right.
otherwise if you were sending 3 ships on 3 missions (9 ships in total) that are all part of the same campaign then you will only get 1 reward for successfully completing that campaign, not a very good incentive to even bother spending the time it will take you to select the ships you are going to send on this campaign.
Post edited by bobbydazlers on
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
you are correct A "campaign" (singular) by definition is a series of military operations however three separate "campaigns" (plural) clearly points to there being three individual missions at any one time whether some of them be individually part of collection of related missions that you may get at a later time or whether they be stand alone missions.
It doesn't clearly indicate that at all.
Read it again:
Take command of your inactive starships to complete dangerous assignments and gather exciting rewards, while advancing your influence in the Admiralty campaigns. Within this system, each starship is given special traits and stats that must be used to successfully complete assignments. Plan carefully which ships are sent on which assignment in order to meet their requirements and offset various hazards, in an effort to yield great rewards across any of three separate campaigns.
What we know is that there are assignments and doing assignments (read: mission, as this is clearly spelled out to be what you send actual ships on) advances your influence within the campaigns, which yield rewards.
Think Projects feeding into Reputations, or DOff Assignments into Commendations. Admiralty Assignments seem to be the obvious equivalent of Projects or DOff assignments, something you use to advance within and Campaigns which seem to be the obvious equivalent of Reputations or Commendations, where the advancement occurs and through which overarching tiers of rewards are unlocked.
In STO there are seven Reputations, does that mean that you can run seven reputation projects at once? No, you can run two per Reputation, plus an upgrade project so 14-21. There are 12 Commendations in the DOffing system, of which you have access to 11 (since two are faction-exclusive). Does that mean you can run 11 assignments? No, you can run 20 (or 23 with Fleet upgrades).
I've decided to wait until I know more. I refuse to get all warm and fuzzy, or, go off on a public nerd rage, over something mentioned in passing in an advert.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
Doffing for me is spamming 'start assignment' with Pokemon cards when I randomly think of it. They want to do the same with ships then sure, why not. Can't see why it's pegged as a major feature however.
Don't have enough information yet to make an educated conclusion. Will have to wait and see.
No one asked for a conclusion, just a first impression of the idea.
Yeah don't worry there will be more polls for second and third impressions when more info is released, then a conclusion poll for when it's tested on Tribble, then finally, the final, final conclusion poll after season 11 is released...
Retired. I'm now in search for that perfect space anomaly.
It honestly just feels like a lot of Development time spent on DOffing; DOffing with ships won't "feel" any different than the DOffing we already have, and it doesn't actually add much in the way of content. Maybe 5 minutes spent on 10 clicks, then that's it? Pokemon in Space.
Granted, that's just based on what little info we have now. Hopefully that will change.
But I would have much rather have had them spend that time on actually fixing how broken the game is, or at least something that's more than something that's just quick click-click-done.
This poll is *NOT* asking for a final judgement on this system. It is asking for a first reaction to the general idea of a doff-like system using our old ships.
Yeah, but that doesn't really change anything: we still have no clue as to what the new doffing would look like.
Comments
No doubt. And nothing is funnier than people who are butthurt and nerd raging about other people being butthurt and nerd raging.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
PnP Red Box DM & Player (74 - ?). NWN + SoU + HotU (4-03),
NWN Diamond Edition, Neverwinter Nights Complete (NWN + NWN2).
This poll is *NOT* asking for a final judgement on this system. It is asking for a first reaction to the general idea of a doff-like system using our old ships.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Also, honestly? I kinda like the virtual paperwork. I mean, if it's all STO were, it'd be boring as hell, but taking a few minutes to juggle DOff exchanges before donating them to fleet projects (conceptually giving enlistees and junior officers permanent postings) kinda makes me feel like an administrative flag officer, in the same way sending more experienced junior officers on assignments kind makes me feel like a captain dealing with the administrativa of starship command. If Dipping makes me feel like an admiral dealing with the administrativa of having a command with a scope beyond one ship--before I move on to actually flying my ship and generally 'playing the game' in the usual sense--then I weclome the addition.
Um, they've already announced this will be using our unused ships, not some new type of "duty ships". No DOff slot roster, your actual unused ship that you've bought/obtained which occupy your actual ship slots.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
My mistake. The StarTrek.com piece wasn't clear, but the announcement on Arc does say 'inactive ships.' I just hope this doesn't mean I'll have to meaningfully equip an entire fleet's worth of ships...
Keep in mind, it's also been said that missions will require up to three ships. Typically people are given 11 ships slots.
What are the chances this will be limited to three concurrent missions? What are the chances that ship tier won't come into play? What are the chances that ship class won't come into play? How many people will have multiple Tier 6 ships from all of the classes?
So... just going by the DOff system, in order to eek out anything of worth from the system you might very well be required to buy ship slots and several T6 ships, including some from ship classes you might normally not play ever. And yeah, maybe you'll have to outfit them all on top of it.
Imagine the cost in zen, ec and dilithium...
These are the things such a system can easily imply.
What's hysterical is that even if the worst case scenario isn't even close to true... what are the chances that Cryptic will tell us that in a timely manner? And of course given their history, when they give us information from which one can logically assume the worst, how much do want to bet ever so many of the developers act utterly surprised and confused when people start doing just that.
Cryptic is both terribly bad at PR and never, ever learns... and then just to rub it in, proceeds to blame the customer for it.
does nobody bother to actually read the sto news blog.
"Plan carefully which ships are sent on which assignment in order to meet their requirements and offset various hazards, in an effort to yield great rewards across any of three separate campaigns"
I think its pretty clear that means 3 missions per character, so regardless of how many ship slots you have 3 missions is the maximum number, so no use buying more slots and ships to get more missions.
having a greater number of ships will just give you a larger pool of ships to choose from.
what concerns me most about this is what do we gain for a mission success/crit-success and what do we loose for a fail/crit-fail, is this going to turn in to another 'upgrading style' dil sink lottery.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
That's not "pretty clear" at all, and is almost assuredly wrong.
A "campaign" by definition is a series of military operations, not one mission but a group of them aimed at a specific goal. It makes no sense to use that term to describe individual missions, only a collection of related missions. Expect the "campaign" to be a tiered progression system similar to DOffing chains, but more elaborate. Something like we see in Neverwinter's "Adventures" which the Admiralty system appears to be based on, which in turn was based originally on STO's own DOffing system.
Not to disagree, but the truth is it doesn't even matter what the official definition of a word is, only what Cryptic's definition is. And we will just have to see what their version of that word means, in this system.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
And you honestly believe that Cryptic is announcing the number of missions that can be run concurrently and not instead referring to variety of content in it's initial press release?
And if that were the case you don't think the term "across three separate campaigns" isn't... absurdly awkward?
And you don't think using the term campaign to (incorrectly) describe a single mission, after already establishing the term assignment to do so earlier in the same sentence is a bit odd?
And of course two sentences earlier...
... they use the same two terms. Again sending ships on assignments and... what, advancing your influence within those same individual missions you're completing in a one-off timer-based mission?
If you were a betting man... where exactly would you place your money here? Because while playing Devil's advocate is nice and all, Bobby's take on it almost certainly isn't where the smart money is.
We already have a duty officer system. I would rather see something a little more ambitious.
Its something new and I like the idea of giving my drydocked ships a breather, regardless of the format it comes in. Plus I assume it comes with various perks and bonuses such as the current DOFF system so Im happy all the way so long as it works
"If this will be our end, then I will have them make SUCH an end as to be worthy of rememberance! Out of torpedos you say?! Find me the ferengi!".
So that gear or stats of the ship you own do not really matter for the admiralty system...
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
[EDIT] First impression, though... sure, why not?
No, seriously, I want to know what's going to go wrong here.
Personally, I'm going to be pessimistic about the whole thing so that whatever shows up should be better than I expected... because I want to like it.
Sort of like DOffs... so probably pre-generated and distributed with ship purchases.
And yeah, this is obviously a lot more basic than they originally let on.
If you just get a card for owning a ship, and what you've done with that ship doesn't matter one wonders...
Will we even see our ship names on our cards? Are we getting a U.S.S Renown card for the one we have parked in dry dock, or just an "Intrepid Class" for buying a ship? We still do own dismissed ships, so do we get "cards" for those? And if so, where do those names get pulled from? And of course there's probably going to be pictures on the "cards" so without gear that picture isn't going to reflect how our actual ships look since you couldn't, say, see the effects of the borg set on them. And if that isn't reflected, will any customization be reflected? Like if you buy the Command Cruiser bundle and kit-bash something from the Command Cruisers will the "DOff" of the resulting ship reflect that? Or are we just getting generic "Presidio", generic "Geneva" and generic "Concorde" DOffs?
Is this going to reflect our actual ships at all, or just our purchase history from the C-Store?
Because, yeah... this doesn't seem to reflect what was advertised.
No one asked for a conclusion, just a first impression of the idea.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
you are correct A "campaign" (singular) by definition is a series of military operations however the words - three separate "campaigns" (plural) clearly points to there being three individual missions at any one time whether some of them be individually part of collection of related missions that you may get at a later time or whether they be stand alone missions or in fact each mission a campaign in it`s own right.
otherwise if you were sending 3 ships on 3 missions (9 ships in total) that are all part of the same campaign then you will only get 1 reward for successfully completing that campaign, not a very good incentive to even bother spending the time it will take you to select the ships you are going to send on this campaign.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
It doesn't clearly indicate that at all.
Read it again:
What we know is that there are assignments and doing assignments (read: mission, as this is clearly spelled out to be what you send actual ships on) advances your influence within the campaigns, which yield rewards.
Think Projects feeding into Reputations, or DOff Assignments into Commendations. Admiralty Assignments seem to be the obvious equivalent of Projects or DOff assignments, something you use to advance within and Campaigns which seem to be the obvious equivalent of Reputations or Commendations, where the advancement occurs and through which overarching tiers of rewards are unlocked.
In STO there are seven Reputations, does that mean that you can run seven reputation projects at once? No, you can run two per Reputation, plus an upgrade project so 14-21. There are 12 Commendations in the DOffing system, of which you have access to 11 (since two are faction-exclusive). Does that mean you can run 11 assignments? No, you can run 20 (or 23 with Fleet upgrades).
Doffing for me is spamming 'start assignment' with Pokemon cards when I randomly think of it. They want to do the same with ships then sure, why not. Can't see why it's pegged as a major feature however.
Yeah don't worry there will be more polls for second and third impressions when more info is released, then a conclusion poll for when it's tested on Tribble, then finally, the final, final conclusion poll after season 11 is released...
Don't worry, I'm not worried.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Granted, that's just based on what little info we have now. Hopefully that will change.
But I would have much rather have had them spend that time on actually fixing how broken the game is, or at least something that's more than something that's just quick click-click-done.
Yeah, but that doesn't really change anything: we still have no clue as to what the new doffing would look like.