Ho long before someone gets killed by the epilepsy beam?

mattjohnsonva · July 2015

I mean seriously guys, have you any idea how dangerous that new resonant beam is? I would like to know who's incredible idea it was to include this in the game? It doesn't matter if it's hitting you, you're using it on someone else or in general PvP, your entire monitor is just a brilliant bright blue/white flash for several seconds. You guys made the borg cube flash more local, but this is a million times worse. I would not be surprised if some poor sod gets an attack from this or at the very least has to stop playing for fear of an attack.

"Various types of seizure can be triggered by flashing or flickering light. These include tonic-clonic, absence, myoclonic and focal seizures. The most common is a tonic-clonic seizure. The seizure(s) will usually happen at the time of, or shortly after, looking at the trigger."

* https://www.epilepsy.org.uk/info/photosensitive-epilepsy

I don't suffer from this but I find it incredibly annoying, in our fleet this beam is banned in pvp.

Cryptic you need to take another look at this before someone is hurt.

angrytarg · July 2015

I don't know how serious this is. I agree with you in principal, but everybody affected by this probably doesn't play fast-paced action videogames with flashy lights anyway. But still, the effects get quite annoying lately. More subtlety would be appreciated, definitely.

stumpfgobs · July 2015

That's why most games have an epilepsy warning in the manual or somewhere else.

solardynamo · July 2015

If the bright lights bother you than just say so, but there's no need to play the epilepsy card in an effort to make a change.

Having been in that community for 15 years I can say photosensitive epilepsy is a factor in a very low number of cases...statistically in this player-base I'd be surprised at more than one person (given that 1 in 100 epileptics has that type). If someone has photosensitive epilepsy, then they generally know about it unless it's the first seizure they've ever had and would probably avoid most games anyway after that point. Anything flashing from 3Hz-60Hz could trigger (that's 3 times per second to 60 times per second) a seizure.

shpoks · July 2015

This game is a nightmare for people suffering from epilepsy, just like most other action-based games I guess. STO used to be much more tame regarding effects, which I liked very much, but couple of years ago the devs became obsessed with pointless glitter and totally over the top visual effects for some reason.

Anyway, I say there should be a warning about this - maybe when you launch the game on the bottom of the black screen with only 'CRYPTIC' in it. Just in case, better safe then sorry.

bobtheyak · July 2015

Epilepsy aside, that resonance beam can cause serious headaches in people who aren't even prone to them.

lucho80 · July 2015

Frankly they need to tone it down. It's an epilepsy danger and it blinds the target with all the ridiculous flashing.

shadowwraith77 · July 2015

Did it look anything like this?

Serious Warning, 3mins. of possible epilepsy if viewed!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIqBAAf2KWk

primar13 · July 2015

Apparently the OP has not been to the FARN System in the Delta Quadrant.... now thats Annoying...

ssbn655 · July 2015

It is annoying especialy if you hit an Iconian ship and they open a solar gate at the same time makes it hard to pick out the gate to target it. It seems turning down bloom effects has little impact on this.

monkeybone13 · July 2015

Destabilizing Resonance Beam

I HATE IT!

I was working on finishing the Delta quadrant episodes the other day and had that 1 patrol mission where you have a borg tac cube and sphere as allies and the Vaadwaur use this on me. I HATE IT!

When used on me the screen goes all bright white for several seconds and there is a very high pitched squeal associated with it. If I recall, hazard emitters can remove the debuff, but even if I use it immediately (or manage to use it right before getting the debuff) I still get hit with a bright flash and loud squeal for a second or 2.

Later I decided to use it myself (not knowing this was the skill the Vaadwaur used in that 1 patrol mission). Each time it pulses the entire screen flashes. I won't be using it anymore.

The visual effects of this skill really need to be reworked and the loud squeal removed before it does cause harm to someone prone to certain things, like what the OP describes.

Who's bright idea was it to make this skill function this way?

legendarylycan · July 2015

monkeybone13 wrote: »

Destabilizing Resonance Beam

I HATE IT!

I was working on finishing the Delta quadrant episodes the other day and had that 1 patrol mission where you have a borg tac cube and sphere as allies and the Vaadwaur use this on me. I HATE IT!

When used on me the screen goes all bright white for several seconds and there is a very high pitched squeal associated with it. If I recall, hazard emitters can remove the debuff, but even if I use it immediately (or manage to use it right before getting the debuff) I still get hit with a bright flash and loud squeal for a second or 2.

Later I decided to use it myself (not knowing this was the skill the Vaadwaur used in that 1 patrol mission). Each time it pulses the entire screen flashes. I won't be using it anymore.

The visual effects of this skill really need to be reworked and the loud squeal removed before it does cause harm to someone prone to certain things, like what the OP describes.

Who's bright idea was it to make this skill function this way?

that is a solar flare, not DRB

seaofsorrows · July 2015

While I certainly hope that nothing like that happens to anyone, ultimately.. people are responsible for their own health. If they have such a medical condition, they shouldn't be playing the game to begin with.

I understand, that they might not yet know they have the condition, but that doesn't shift the burden of responsibility. Ultimately, people are responsible for themselves.

farmallm · July 2015

Most games has a lot of flashing lights and stuff. So those people play at their own risk. Even watching a movie can trigger it. At times it might not be a light. Other factors also causes it.

ovrkyl · July 2015

monkeybone13 wrote: »

Destabilizing Resonance Beam

I HATE IT!

I was working on finishing the Delta quadrant episodes the other day and had that 1 patrol mission where you have a borg tac cube and sphere as allies and the Vaadwaur use this on me. I HATE IT!

When used on me the screen goes all bright white for several seconds and there is a very high pitched squeal associated with it. If I recall, hazard emitters can remove the debuff, but even if I use it immediately (or manage to use it right before getting the debuff) I still get hit with a bright flash and loud squeal for a second or 2.

Later I decided to use it myself (not knowing this was the skill the Vaadwaur used in that 1 patrol mission). Each time it pulses the entire screen flashes. I won't be using it anymore.

The visual effects of this skill really need to be reworked and the loud squeal removed before it does cause harm to someone prone to certain things, like what the OP describes.

Who's bright idea was it to make this skill function this way?

I believe that can also be encountered on ground maps if someone uses a stun grenade on you (colloquially called IRL a "flash bang" for that very reason...visual and auditory overload). I've witnessed it myself, more ground than space, but same annoying effects.

gradii · July 2015

1st officer: "Captain! Shields are down to 12%, our engines are offline,
and there are hull breaches on decks 6, 3, and 14!"

Captain: "Number one, prepare to fire our ultimate weapon."

1st officer: "What would that be sir?"

Captain: "Fire... THE EPILEPSY BEAM!!!"

coupaholic · July 2015

Would the effect be minimised if they lower the graphic settings? Obviously not a perfect solution, but better than nothing.

captainmal3 · July 2015

Regardless of the epilepsy thing, it really needs to be toned down. I wanted to use it on my new ship (more sci slots than my old one) but it's just so incredibly annoying. I hate it when other people I'm teamed with use it too, although it's generally not quite as bad in those cases, simply due to being further away. I have no idea how they put up with it though.

e30ernest · July 2015

I love the skill but not the visual effect that comes with it. I am for a revamp of its visual effect.

meimeitoo · July 2015

I love the DRB effects, btw. Just keep 'em.

angrytarg · July 2015

repetitiveepic wrote: »

Its just the logical progression in obnoxious visual effects since say... the neutronic torpedo?

An that one only uses the biomatter proc effect. A lot of skills and weapons just reuse the same effect with different colours and a bit more flashes, actually.

monkeybone13 · July 2015

shadowfang240 wrote: »

monkeybone13 wrote: »

Destabilizing Resonance Beam

I HATE IT!

I was working on finishing the Delta quadrant episodes the other day and had that 1 patrol mission where you have a borg tac cube and sphere as allies and the Vaadwaur use this on me. I HATE IT!

When used on me the screen goes all bright white for several seconds and there is a very high pitched squeal associated with it. If I recall, hazard emitters can remove the debuff, but even if I use it immediately (or manage to use it right before getting the debuff) I still get hit with a bright flash and loud squeal for a second or 2.

Later I decided to use it myself (not knowing this was the skill the Vaadwaur used in that 1 patrol mission). Each time it pulses the entire screen flashes. I won't be using it anymore.

The visual effects of this skill really need to be reworked and the loud squeal removed before it does cause harm to someone prone to certain things, like what the OP describes.

Who's bright idea was it to make this skill function this way?

that is a solar flare, not DRB

Oh. It's still hard on the eyes and ears.

Still though, I pointed out when using the destabilizing resonance beam myself it does have a bright pulsating flash that fills the screen. It's annoying even if I have the camera zoomed all the way out on a small ship.

monkeybone13 · July 2015

seaofsorrows wrote: »

While I certainly hope that nothing like that happens to anyone, ultimately.. people are responsible for their own health. If they have such a medical condition, they shouldn't be playing the game to begin with.

I understand, that they might not yet know they have the condition, but that doesn't shift the burden of responsibility. Ultimately, people are responsible for themselves.

Seriously? That's like saying somebody who got food poisoning at a restaurant is at fault for eating there, even though they didn't know the food was spoiled. There have been studies and evidence over the course of decades that prove such flashing lights can cause seizures in people, even if they aren't prone to such a thing.

History lesson buddy: even people who don't have photosensitive epilepsy can still be affected by it.

Evidence: In 1997 there was a Pokemon episode that aired in japan that sent hundreds of kids to the hospital due to a massive flashing on the screen. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pokémon_episodes_removed_from_rotation#.22Denn.C5.8D_Senshi_Porygon.22_.28Episode_38.29

Only a small fraction of the 685 children treated were diagnosed with photosensitive epilepsy........Although about 1 in 4,000 people are susceptible to these types of seizures, the number of people affected by this Pokémon episode was unprecedented.

Most of the kids sent to the hospital only had mild symptoms and no long term damage. Only a small fraction were diagnosed with the condition. But that still doesn't change the fact a condition that only affects a small amount of people actually affected a very large number.

legendarylycan · July 2015

monkeybone13 wrote: »

Oh. It's still hard on the eyes and ears.

Still though, I pointed out when using the destabilizing resonance beam myself it does have a bright pulsating flash that fills the screen. It's annoying even if I have the camera zoomed all the way out on a small ship.

i saw someone using it in a tholian alert the other night, and while the effect was fairly intense, it wasn't a flash filling my entire screen, and i was very close to the one using it

shadowwraith77 · July 2015

To me, it is just a bit bright on the eyeballs is all!

a3001 · July 2015

Statistically? Very soon. Probability? Slightly above average.

warmaker001b · July 2015

I need to slot and use this ability more.

themetalstickman · July 2015

shadowwraith77 wrote: »

Did it look anything like this?

Serious Warning, 3mins. of possible epilepsy if viewed!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIqBAAf2KWk

Exactly 1:10. What do ya know, there were five lights after all!

seaofsorrows · July 2015

monkeybone13 wrote: »

Seriously? That's like saying somebody who got food poisoning at a restaurant is at fault for eating there, even though they didn't know the food was spoiled.

Except for the fact that poison food would effect absolutely anyone that consumed it. So unless you can say that the strobe will have an epileptic effect on absolutely anyone that views it, the comparison is invalid.

People that play video games know that flashing visual effects are a common occurrence. People don't eat at restaurants with the understanding that it's likely their food is poisoned. If they did, then yes.. it would be their fault for eating there. Flashing effects is a standard, poisoned food is not.

monkeybone13 wrote: »

History lesson buddy: even people who don't have photosensitive epilepsy can still be affected by it.

Lets keep it civil, I'm not attacking you, just giving my side of the argument. My reply is not intended to provoke hostility, I just don't agree.

I'm not saying that certain precautions don't have to be taken because they do. But saying that the effect is going to harm peoples health is quite a stretch. If you don't like the effect, then fine but it's not THAT extreme. It would be interesting to see the effect you linked in direct comparison to the effect in question from STO. Without seeing them in comparison (which apparently might be dangerous) it's hard to discern how the two effects really compare but judging by the fact that players aren't going to the hospital in droves, I would say it's safe to assume they aren't on the same level.

Either way, if a person has any pre-disposition to these type of disorders then the burden of the precaution is on them. Developers have a basic responsibility to keep these concerns in mind and try to build content that won't be harmful to people that don't suffer these conditions, and I believe they do. The effect in question isn't even close to being as bad as it's being made out and it's not sending anyone to the hospital unless they have another medical condition. What you're doing here is issuing a comparison to an extreme and very rare occurrence and trying to make it look like it's the norm when it's not. Using an extreme situation as a baseline for comparison is a flawed argument.

1 in every 100 people suffer from some form of Epilepsy. Of those that do, only about 5% have any form of photosensitive epilepsy. Is it a concern? Of course, any time you're talking about peoples health, it's a concern.. but we're talking about a very small number of people.

If people don't like the effect, then I understand that, I don't like it either. I would just prefer to see it altered because it's annoying, it seems a stretch to base the request on health concerns. That's all I'm saying.

farmallm · July 2015

I used the beam a few times last night. It does get really flashy. It didn't bother me, but I can see where it could be tone down some.

shadowwraith77 · August 2015

themetalstickman wrote: »

shadowwraith77 wrote: »

Did it look anything like this?

Serious Warning, 3mins. of possible epilepsy if viewed!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIqBAAf2KWk

Exactly 1:10. What do ya know, there were five lights after all!

Don't forget the 2 epilepsy beams!

Ho long before someone gets killed by the epilepsy beam?

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