Seriously? That's like saying somebody who got food poisoning at a restaurant is at fault for eating there, even though they didn't know the food was spoiled.
Except for the fact that poison food would effect absolutely anyone that consumed it. So unless you can say that the strobe will have an epileptic effect on absolutely anyone that views it, the comparison is invalid.
People that play video games know that flashing visual effects are a common occurrence. People don't eat at restaurants with the understanding that it's likely their food is poisoned. If they did, then yes.. it would be their fault for eating there. Flashing effects is a standard, poisoned food is not.
History lesson buddy: even people who don't have photosensitive epilepsy can still be affected by it.
Lets keep it civil, I'm not attacking you, just giving my side of the argument. My reply is not intended to provoke hostility, I just don't agree.
I'm not saying that certain precautions don't have to be taken because they do. But saying that the effect is going to harm peoples health is quite a stretch. If you don't like the effect, then fine but it's not THAT extreme. It would be interesting to see the effect you linked in direct comparison to the effect in question from STO. Without seeing them in comparison (which apparently might be dangerous) it's hard to discern how the two effects really compare but judging by the fact that players aren't going to the hospital in droves, I would say it's safe to assume they aren't on the same level.
Either way, if a person has any pre-disposition to these type of disorders then the burden of the precaution is on them. Developers have a basic responsibility to keep these concerns in mind and try to build content that won't be harmful to people that don't suffer these conditions, and I believe they do. The effect in question isn't even close to being as bad as it's being made out and it's not sending anyone to the hospital unless they have another medical condition. What you're doing here is issuing a comparison to an extreme and very rare occurrence and trying to make it look like it's the norm when it's not. Using an extreme situation as a baseline for comparison is a flawed argument.
1 in every 100 people suffer from some form of Epilepsy. Of those that do, only about 5% have any form of photosensitive epilepsy. Is it a concern? Of course, any time you're talking about peoples health, it's a concern.. but we're talking about a very small number of people.
If people don't like the effect, then I understand that, I don't like it either. I would just prefer to see it altered because it's annoying, it seems a stretch to base the request on health concerns. That's all I'm saying.
Seriously? That's like saying somebody who got food poisoning at a restaurant is at fault for eating there, even though they didn't know the food was spoiled.
Except for the fact that poison food would effect absolutely anyone that consumed it. So unless you can say that the strobe will have an epileptic effect on absolutely anyone that views it, the comparison is invalid.
People that play video games know that flashing visual effects are a common occurrence. People don't eat at restaurants with the understanding that it's likely their food is poisoned. If they did, then yes.. it would be their fault for eating there. Flashing effects is a standard, poisoned food is not.
History lesson buddy: even people who don't have photosensitive epilepsy can still be affected by it.
Lets keep it civil, I'm not attacking you, just giving my side of the argument. My reply is not intended to provoke hostility, I just don't agree.
I'm not saying that certain precautions don't have to be taken because they do. But saying that the effect is going to harm peoples health is quite a stretch. If you don't like the effect, then fine but it's not THAT extreme. It would be interesting to see the effect you linked in direct comparison to the effect in question from STO. Without seeing them in comparison (which apparently might be dangerous) it's hard to discern how the two effects really compare but judging by the fact that players aren't going to the hospital in droves, I would say it's safe to assume they aren't on the same level.
Either way, if a person has any pre-disposition to these type of disorders then the burden of the precaution is on them. Developers have a basic responsibility to keep these concerns in mind and try to build content that won't be harmful to people that don't suffer these conditions, and I believe they do. The effect in question isn't even close to being as bad as it's being made out and it's not sending anyone to the hospital unless they have another medical condition. What you're doing here is issuing a comparison to an extreme and very rare occurrence and trying to make it look like it's the norm when it's not. Using an extreme situation as a baseline for comparison is a flawed argument.
1 in every 100 people suffer from some form of Epilepsy. Of those that do, only about 5% have any form of photosensitive epilepsy. Is it a concern? Of course, any time you're talking about peoples health, it's a concern.. but we're talking about a very small number of people.
If people don't like the effect, then I understand that, I don't like it either. I would just prefer to see it altered because it's annoying, it seems a stretch to base the request on health concerns. That's all I'm saying.
^^ Very well put! Finally someone injecting some sanity into this discussion!
The disco-balls (also referred to as Troll-balls... whatever you know them by) are worse than what has been added recently and no one has reported issues with those.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
While I certainly hope that nothing like that happens to anyone, ultimately.. people are responsible for their own health. If they have such a medical condition, they shouldn't be playing the game to begin with.
I understand, that they might not yet know they have the condition, but that doesn't shift the burden of responsibility. Ultimately, people are responsible for themselves.
Seriously? That's like saying somebody who got food poisoning at a restaurant is at fault for eating there, even though they didn't know the food was spoiled. There have been studies and evidence over the course of decades that prove such flashing lights can cause seizures in people, even if they aren't prone to such a thing.
History lesson buddy: even people who don't have photosensitive epilepsy can still be affected by it.
Only a small fraction of the 685 children treated were diagnosed with photosensitive epilepsy........Although about 1 in 4,000 people are susceptible to these types of seizures, the number of people affected by this Pokémon episode was unprecedented.
Most of the kids sent to the hospital only had mild symptoms and no long term damage. Only a small fraction were diagnosed with the condition. But that still doesn't change the fact a condition that only affects a small amount of people actually affected a very large number.
I've actually seen the full-speed footage from that Pokemon episode and even though it did not cause a seizure, it did cause immediate discomfort that forced me to look away almost immediately. IRL, even LED car lights or Christmas lights can be unpleasant viewing if the strobing frequency is low enough to be visible to the human eye (or the upper limits of the human eye, given that not all people can see the strobing I do).
So it doesn't have to actually cause a seizure for it to be very uncomfortable for some people. (In contrast, the flashbang/solar flare effect doesn't bother me since it's a single flash.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
I'll admit, I do not know much about epilepsy. However, if someone has a problem like that, should they be playing a space combat video game with lots of laser and explosions in the first place?
I'll admit, I do not know much about epilepsy. However, if someone has a problem like that, should they be playing a space combat video game with lots of laser and explosions in the first place?
I can agree if someone is already diagnosed. But it IS possible for this to be the initial trigger for someone with no prior history.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
I'll admit, I do not know much about epilepsy. However, if someone has a problem like that, should they be playing a space combat video game with lots of laser and explosions in the first place?
I can agree if someone is already diagnosed. But it IS possible for this to be the initial trigger for someone with no prior history.
No argument there, but isn't that equally true of a million different video games? What exactly do you suggest video game makers do to warn people who don't even have any idea they have a problem?
I have to look away from the screen sometimes, that beam and white flash hurts my eyes at times
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Odds of a person with severe epilepsy not having it diagnosed before they play a computer game? very low. That's part of why games don't go to a lot of effort there. People with epilepsy bad enough to need medical attention when they have a fit are unlikely to have it go unnoticed that long.
Most games [if not all], list somewhere, that it may cause just such an issue to arrise, so people are forewarned!!!
It's like labeling games similar to medication, in which medications can and may cause severe allergic reactions in certain people!
Yeah, but see the last few posts above yours. How is a warning like that going to help someone who doesn't know they have a problem yet?
How does any warning, help anyone with any problem, if they don't know it can be a problem out of the blue?
It's not like definite warnings, they are considered precautionary warnings for good reason!!!
I agree, which is why this thread seems pointless. If a person *knows* they have a problem, it would be best not to play games like this at all. And if a person *doesn't* know they have a problem, giving them a warning can't really help, because they wouldn't know it applied to them. So...WTH does the OP want Cryptic to do?
I mean seriously guys, have you any idea how dangerous that new resonant beam is? I would like to know who's incredible idea it was to include this in the game? It doesn't matter if it's hitting you, you're using it on someone else or in general PvP, your entire monitor is just a brilliant bright blue/white flash for several seconds. You guys made the borg cube flash more local, but this is a million times worse. I would not be surprised if some poor sod gets an attack from this or at the very least has to stop playing for fear of an attack.
"Various types of seizure can be triggered by flashing or flickering light. These include tonic-clonic, absence, myoclonic and focal seizures. The most common is a tonic-clonic seizure. The seizure(s) will usually happen at the time of, or shortly after, looking at the trigger."
Hmm. Probably the ONLY way for us all to be safe is to shut down ALL video games, ban any food that has EVER caused ANY allergic reaction, stop using cars, drop electricity like a bad idea, get rid all any medication that has side effects, ban alcohol (again), tobacco, caffeine, stairs, fire, the concept of 'edge', ladders, any form of glass, and finally just make everyone crawl on all fours so we cannot trip and hurt ourselves. Also everyone MUST wear a full safety suit at all times. And gloves to avoid blisters from the crawling.
Then JUST MAYBE the panic mongering do-gooders will be satisfied. But probably not.
Here's a tip: People with this condition will contact Cryptic directly if there is a problem. Then Cryptic will fix it. Don't try to help people that haven't asked for your help.
Most games [if not all], list somewhere, that it may cause just such an issue to arrise, so people are forewarned!!!
It's like labeling games similar to medication, in which medications can and may cause severe allergic reactions in certain people!
Yeah, but see the last few posts above yours. How is a warning like that going to help someone who doesn't know they have a problem yet?
How does any warning, help anyone with any problem, if they don't know it can be a problem out of the blue?
It's not like definite warnings, they are considered precautionary warnings for good reason!!!
I agree, which is why this thread seems pointless. If a person *knows* they have a problem, it would be best not to play games like this at all. And if a person *doesn't* know they have a problem, giving them a warning can't really help, because they wouldn't know it applied to them. So...WTH does the OP want Cryptic to do?
I suspect like most posts on this forum it is indeed pointless. My OP was designed to highlight a concern that I and a few others had regarding the over the top effects of this beam. My initial reaction to the beam was annoyance that it basically stopped you playing if you were the recipient of it in pvp, it wasn't much better in PvE either. I have a 34 inch ultra wide screen monitor so perhaps for me the effects are more pronounced than for someone with a typical 24 inch screen, however the dazzling light does actually hurt my eyes and as a sufferer of regular headaches it was not something I welcomed. It then occurred to me that this could possibly instigate a fit with someone who has epilepsy, especially someone who had never had a fit before, it seemed to me that this could be severe enough to trigger an epileptic response and therefore dangerous.
So again I ask, what do you want Cryptic to do? Not use a visual effect that you personally find bothersome? Check with you in the future on any visual effects before going live? And if not checking in with you personally, what measuring stick do you want them to use? Do you have any proposed solution to this issue?
Yeah, several people got hospitalized, but no one really got hurt. Most people who complained of issues from it seemed to have nothing worse than eye-strain induced headaches.
BEHOLD! skip to around 15:00 or 15:30. It's annoying and I can see why people would feel uncomfortable after seeing it.
Most games [if not all], list somewhere, that it may cause just such an issue to arrise, so people are forewarned!!!
It's like labeling games similar to medication, in which medications can and may cause severe allergic reactions in certain people!
Yeah, but see the last few posts above yours. How is a warning like that going to help someone who doesn't know they have a problem yet?
How does any warning, help anyone with any problem, if they don't know it can be a problem out of the blue?
It's not like definite warnings, they are considered precautionary warnings for good reason!!!
I agree, which is why this thread seems pointless. If a person *knows* they have a problem, it would be best not to play games like this at all. And if a person *doesn't* know they have a problem, giving them a warning can't really help, because they wouldn't know it applied to them. So...WTH does the OP want Cryptic to do?
I suspect like most posts on this forum it is indeed pointless. My OP was designed to highlight a concern that I and a few others had regarding the over the top effects of this beam. My initial reaction to the beam was annoyance that it basically stopped you playing if you were the recipient of it in pvp, it wasn't much better in PvE either. I have a 34 inch ultra wide screen monitor so perhaps for me the effects are more pronounced than for someone with a typical 24 inch screen, however the dazzling light does actually hurt my eyes and as a sufferer of regular headaches it was not something I welcomed. It then occurred to me that this could possibly instigate a fit with someone who has epilepsy, especially someone who had never had a fit before, it seemed to me that this could be severe enough to trigger an epileptic response and therefore dangerous.
So again I ask, what do you want Cryptic to do? Not use a visual effect that you personally find bothersome? Check with you in the future on any visual effects before going live? And if not checking in with you personally, what measuring stick do you want them to use? Do you have any proposed solution to this issue?
Before I make my next post, shall I check in with you to see if it's suitable for these forums?
You are free to post whatever you like, and other people(myself included) are equally free to respond. There is no reason to be so sensitive.
Most games [if not all], list somewhere, that it may cause just such an issue to arrise, so people are forewarned!!!
It's like labeling games similar to medication, in which medications can and may cause severe allergic reactions in certain people!
Yeah, but see the last few posts above yours. How is a warning like that going to help someone who doesn't know they have a problem yet?
How does any warning, help anyone with any problem, if they don't know it can be a problem out of the blue?
It's not like definite warnings, they are considered precautionary warnings for good reason!!!
I agree, which is why this thread seems pointless. If a person *knows* they have a problem, it would be best not to play games like this at all. And if a person *doesn't* know they have a problem, giving them a warning can't really help, because they wouldn't know it applied to them. So...WTH does the OP want Cryptic to do?
I suspect like most posts on this forum it is indeed pointless. My OP was designed to highlight a concern that I and a few others had regarding the over the top effects of this beam. My initial reaction to the beam was annoyance that it basically stopped you playing if you were the recipient of it in pvp, it wasn't much better in PvE either. I have a 34 inch ultra wide screen monitor so perhaps for me the effects are more pronounced than for someone with a typical 24 inch screen, however the dazzling light does actually hurt my eyes and as a sufferer of regular headaches it was not something I welcomed. It then occurred to me that this could possibly instigate a fit with someone who has epilepsy, especially someone who had never had a fit before, it seemed to me that this could be severe enough to trigger an epileptic response and therefore dangerous.
So again I ask, what do you want Cryptic to do? Not use a visual effect that you personally find bothersome? Check with you in the future on any visual effects before going live? And if not checking in with you personally, what measuring stick do you want them to use? Do you have any proposed solution to this issue?
To answer your rather snarky question I expect Cryptic to do what other companies do in the real world, show due diligence when designing, implementing and testing their products. To me this is just one more example that the people who make the game don't play the game, something that looks cool off the bat becomes tiresome, bothersome and perhaps even risky after a few exposures. They need to bare in mind that some players may find this not only damned annoying but it may also trigger physiological responses whether that be headaches, eye strain or worse.
you have yet to demonstrate that Cryptic does not properly test things. All you have done is state reasons you dislike the end result.
They should also check from a sales and marketing point of view by asking the question, "what added value am I offering my customers with this or that, and are there any negative impacts with this or that which could affect sales?"
Before I make my next post, shall I check in with you to see if it's suitable for these forums?
Comments
Exactly 1:10. What do ya know, there were five lights after all!
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
Except for the fact that poison food would effect absolutely anyone that consumed it. So unless you can say that the strobe will have an epileptic effect on absolutely anyone that views it, the comparison is invalid.
People that play video games know that flashing visual effects are a common occurrence. People don't eat at restaurants with the understanding that it's likely their food is poisoned. If they did, then yes.. it would be their fault for eating there. Flashing effects is a standard, poisoned food is not.
Lets keep it civil, I'm not attacking you, just giving my side of the argument. My reply is not intended to provoke hostility, I just don't agree.
I'm not saying that certain precautions don't have to be taken because they do. But saying that the effect is going to harm peoples health is quite a stretch. If you don't like the effect, then fine but it's not THAT extreme. It would be interesting to see the effect you linked in direct comparison to the effect in question from STO. Without seeing them in comparison (which apparently might be dangerous) it's hard to discern how the two effects really compare but judging by the fact that players aren't going to the hospital in droves, I would say it's safe to assume they aren't on the same level.
Either way, if a person has any pre-disposition to these type of disorders then the burden of the precaution is on them. Developers have a basic responsibility to keep these concerns in mind and try to build content that won't be harmful to people that don't suffer these conditions, and I believe they do. The effect in question isn't even close to being as bad as it's being made out and it's not sending anyone to the hospital unless they have another medical condition. What you're doing here is issuing a comparison to an extreme and very rare occurrence and trying to make it look like it's the norm when it's not. Using an extreme situation as a baseline for comparison is a flawed argument.
1 in every 100 people suffer from some form of Epilepsy. Of those that do, only about 5% have any form of photosensitive epilepsy. Is it a concern? Of course, any time you're talking about peoples health, it's a concern.. but we're talking about a very small number of people.
If people don't like the effect, then I understand that, I don't like it either. I would just prefer to see it altered because it's annoying, it seems a stretch to base the request on health concerns. That's all I'm saying.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Don't forget the 2 epilepsy beams!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
^^ Very well put! Finally someone injecting some sanity into this discussion!
I've actually seen the full-speed footage from that Pokemon episode and even though it did not cause a seizure, it did cause immediate discomfort that forced me to look away almost immediately. IRL, even LED car lights or Christmas lights can be unpleasant viewing if the strobing frequency is low enough to be visible to the human eye (or the upper limits of the human eye, given that not all people can see the strobing I do).
So it doesn't have to actually cause a seizure for it to be very uncomfortable for some people. (In contrast, the flashbang/solar flare effect doesn't bother me since it's a single flash.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I can agree if someone is already diagnosed. But it IS possible for this to be the initial trigger for someone with no prior history.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
No argument there, but isn't that equally true of a million different video games? What exactly do you suggest video game makers do to warn people who don't even have any idea they have a problem?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
My character Tsin'xing
It's like labeling games similar to medication, in which medications can and may cause severe allergic reactions in certain people!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Yeah, but see the last few posts above yours. How is a warning like that going to help someone who doesn't know they have a problem yet?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
My character Tsin'xing
How does any warning, help anyone with any problem, if they don't know it can be a problem out of the blue?
It's not like definite warnings, they are considered precautionary warnings for good reason!!!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
I agree, which is why this thread seems pointless. If a person *knows* they have a problem, it would be best not to play games like this at all. And if a person *doesn't* know they have a problem, giving them a warning can't really help, because they wouldn't know it applied to them. So...WTH does the OP want Cryptic to do?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
HIlarious...sadly but TRUE
Then JUST MAYBE the panic mongering do-gooders will be satisfied. But probably not.
Here's a tip: People with this condition will contact Cryptic directly if there is a problem. Then Cryptic will fix it. Don't try to help people that haven't asked for your help.
So again I ask, what do you want Cryptic to do? Not use a visual effect that you personally find bothersome? Check with you in the future on any visual effects before going live? And if not checking in with you personally, what measuring stick do you want them to use? Do you have any proposed solution to this issue?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
BEHOLD! skip to around 15:00 or 15:30. It's annoying and I can see why people would feel uncomfortable after seeing it.
My character Tsin'xing
You are free to post whatever you like, and other people(myself included) are equally free to respond. There is no reason to be so sensitive.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
My character Tsin'xing