Or, alternately, everyone knows, because at no point in any series after Enterprise do we see Orions using their phremones on people. The only time one was, Vinaz wasn't even real Orion. Just a Talosian illusion made for Captain Pike
The R.R.W and I.R.W. prefix should be available for all Romulan ships, even shuttles. There's no logical reason to with hold them.
While I agree with the sentiment, I do have one minor nitpick:
The W in I.R.W. and R.R.W. stands for Warbird. As shuttles are not warbirds - they are (wait for it) shuttles - there shouldn't even be a prefix AT ALL for them.
Otherwise, I fully support both prefixes for all Romulan Warbirds. Prizes are often taken in war, and that can work either way. Salvage and espionage happen, too.
I think Cryptic's stance on the issue is pretty clear now. Every T6 release after the Intel warbirds, up to and including the most recent Morrigu drop, has been RRW only.
1. It is likely, in my opinion, that the Star Empire only had the resources to develop, and only has the resources to construct one class of T6 warbird (Faeht).
2. It seems a bit arbitrary to me, to think that the Star Empire would not develop similar technology, to that of the Republic, after a time, even with limited resources.
1. It is likely, in my opinion, that the Star Empire only had the resources to develop, and only has the resources to construct one class of T6 warbird (Faeht).
2. It seems a bit arbitrary to me, to think that the Star Empire would not develop similar technology, to that of the Republic, after a time, even with limited resources.
It is arbitrary, but that doesn't make it an Empire design. It's pretty clearly Republic. It says so in the ingame shipyard description.
Given the fact there's no Star Empire faction, I don't see why I.R.W. is available at all.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Given the fact there's no Star Empire faction, I don't see why I.R.W. is available at all.
the faction exists, its just not a player faction. And most of the warbirds the republic had at the beginning were repurposed imperial vessels
Along with many other factions we can use prefixes for that we can't play as -or are actively at war with, like with the mirror Federation.
It just doesn't make any sense why the D'D should be excluded from the IRW club when there are much more bizarre ships and prefixes out there in relation to STO's storyline that one can use.
Despite all our best efforts, the outbreak of plague zombies on the colony world of Thread 2031 has progressed beyond our ability to contain it. I have managed to evacuate all remaining Starfleet personnel on the surface, and what remains of the civilian population. However, there remain a great many personal craft on the planet's surface. These creatures have shown a limited, but malevolent intelligence. Therefore, pursuant to Starfleet Regulations, I am executing General Order 24.
Though I have no serious objection to IRW on a T6 warbird of any sort, and even less on a canon ship, Do the Imperials really put that much effort into improving the ships they have? Do they have the imagination that it takes to come up with those splendid command and pilot warbirds? Don't they prefer to just take a big chunk of borg ship, mold it into something even more hideous, slap an Imperial raptor logo on the side of the hull and call it theirs? (Stargate reference intended)
Kyrrock- Cryptic doesn't tend to put nearly as much effort into expanding npc faction ship lines as they do player faction ones, so their fleets tend to remain rather stagnant in composition.
At any rate, the current level of technology available to the Star Empire at this point is pretty much irrelevant thanks to a considerable number of precedents make it mind boggling that Cryptic would draw the line here if that were the case.
This is a game afterall that lets you pit a Constellation class against a Nebula class on equal footing (both available at T5.5 U)
To say nothing of the Enterprise era ships available at T5.5 U.
And for those who want to bar the IRW prefix from it for lore reasons- we already have the T6 Intel ship which is explicitly Republic built and can use the IRW prefix. We also have fleetgrade ships-which also are not Imperial made and yet can use the Imperial prefix.
As I see it, prefixes are for RPrs who want to think of their ship as being part of a faction other than Starfleet/KDF/Republic military. Think of it-what sense would it make for a ship to be flying the ISS prefix if one went solely by the storyline?
In that way, it's similar to how ship skins are utilized in game. Of course it doesn't make any sense whatsoever to have a constellation (or even a Cheyenne) class go toe-to-toe with a Nebula. Reasonably the higher tier versions would be locked to using the 2409 hulls like the Dakota or Stargazer, but Cryptic gave the Constellation and Cheyenne skins for folks who would like to use 'classic' skins instead of Cryptic-designed hulls.
Same thing with the D'Khellra. It's flat out defined as being a separate ship from the D'D, yet allows the use of of the D'D skin, despite that being a different ship. Yet one curiously never hears anyone asking to remove the D'D skin options from the D'Khellra. Double standard, IMO.
Seriously. This thread died a while ago. The issue was talked to death. Let it go. People can't have ISS on any ship they want either.
And yet here you are, continuing to post your own opinion on the matter. Over and over and over. Pot, Kettle. If you feel like there's nothing of value left for you to contribute to the thread, then don't post.
It's still relevant as long as there are players who want that Prefix on their ships and can't get it, as much as I'm sure you'd like all dissent to your opinion to cease. Threads such as this keep Cryptic aware of the issues that might concern the community.
Point with the ISS prefix being that it's equally absurd to be flying under the flag of the Mirror Federation going by this game's storyline. But it's in there as an option because the ability to fly mirror universe ships appeals to trek fans for obvious reasons. The appeal of flying a Romulan Star Empire D'deridex should likewise be obvious.
Though I have no serious objection to IRW on a T6 warbird of any sort, and even less on a canon ship, Do the Imperials really put that much effort into improving the ships they have? Do they have the imagination that it takes to come up with those splendid command and pilot warbirds? Don't they prefer to just take a big chunk of borg ship, mold it into something even more hideous, slap an Imperial raptor logo on the side of the hull and call it theirs? (Stargate reference intended)
from an rp perspective they dont have to.. they can use a PADD, ha.ck republic mainframes, and download full blueprints and technical data... I mean if it can ha.ck BORG tech in orbit....
Speaking of this whole thing, I personally see no reason for the I.R.W. to not be available to all Romulan ships. They get so little as it is, throw them this bone ffs! On a semi related note, for some reason my KDF Qib and Fleet Qib both came out of the box with the R.R.W. prefix, and I never bothered to change them, I find it kind of funny that they did that.
ruff, meow, moo, whatever.... *shrug* [ Still Waiting for a Shiny New T6 Romulan Science Ship to Command ]
And yet here you are, continuing to post your own opinion on the matter. Over and over and over. Pot, Kettle. If you feel like there's nothing of value left for you to contribute to the thread, then don't post.
There is no pot-kettle. Any preception that nothing of value is there to be added is your own desire to suppress dissent, which you project onto others. My point is that there is little to be said that has not been said several times already. The validity of the point has not been refuted.
And yet here you are, continuing to post your own opinion on the matter. Over and over and over. Pot, Kettle. If you feel like there's nothing of value left for you to contribute to the thread, then don't post.
There is no pot-kettle. Any preception that nothing of value is there to be added is your own desire to suppress dissent, which you project onto others. My point is that there is little to be said that has not been said several times already. The validity of ha pointhas not been refuted.
I have no intention of ending my quest for full-faction status for the RRF. And each time Cryptic adds something to the game which could be tweaked so as to facilitate that, I intend to explain how it could be done. Thus, new arguments for that are possible. In addition, this is how Socratic dialectic works. You offer a definition, it gets rejected, you improve on your definition or offer an alternative definition, the process continues.
Further, if we were to stop petitioning for full-faction status for the RRF, Cryptic might assume we have finally resigned ourselves to the status quo.
Granted, I believe that the two (and only two) T6 warbirds which can be assigned the IRW prefix are examples of something which was not intended (exactly as the QIb and Mat'ha come out of the box with RRW on them, which was clearly not intended, but which cannot be retained if the player attempts to rename the ships), and yet, Cryptic has done nothing to remove that option. Of course, this could be another example of their infamous neglect of an issue until they get around to again going over something in which the issue is found, but it is still a precedent.
I don't like the fact that I can't put OSS on all of the ships my two Orions have. I see no reason why we should not be able to use OSS on any ship an Orion character has, nor ISS on any ship a Fed character has, nor VSS on any ship a Vulcan character has, and the list goes on. The inclusion of these alternate prefixes was never intended as anything other than a means of facilitating RP, and while they are hardly necessary from the PoV of game mechanics, they do help to make the environment more user-friendly.
And as I stated previously, if IRW were allowed on any warbird, we could finally lay to rest the assertion that has been made by some RSE/Tal'Shiar supporters that the reason we see so many more warbirds with RRW than IRW is simply because most T6 ships cannot use IRW, because we would still see so many more with a Republic registry prefix and could again hold that up as evidence of the reality that more Romulan/Reman players support the Republic than the Star Empire.
And again, if "ahr'Lleiset mnhei'sahe mnei" is to be more than a saying, we must walk the walk as well as talk the talk. If these yahoos want to go around representing the enormous PHAIL which is the RSE, let them. Then we can point and laugh at them (and more easily identify them for our military campaign to defeat the RSE and liberate its citizens).
And yet here you are, continuing to post your own opinion on the matter. Over and over and over. Pot, Kettle. If you feel like there's nothing of value left for you to contribute to the thread, then don't post.
There is no pot-kettle. Any preception that nothing of value is there to be added is your own desire to suppress dissent, which you project onto others. My point is that there is little to be said that has not been said several times already. The validity of the point has not been refuted.
'Suppress dissent'? That's a profound lack of self awareness there, considering your only contributions to this thread this past page have amounted to repeatedly trying to quash discussion on the subject.
And again, if issues like this are felt strongly by the community, we should let Cryptic know! This is in the 'Feedback' part of the forums, after all.
I agree with Protogoth of course, prefixes are purely for RP purposes, otherwise we wouldn't even have the option of changing them. Furthermore, I think that's a situation that applies to uniforms and many ship skins.
IMO in an ideal situation prefixes would be character-wide unlocks. So an Orion character would be able to use the O.S.S. prefix on non-Orion ships which are not exactly plentiful at endgame at the moment. Likewise, gettign a mirror universe ship should unlock the ISS prefix for players. (which would be particularly nice since mirror ships can't be upgraded even to T5U).
Suppress dissent was your own words. Any lack of awareness is your own. I provided reasons why I think it wouldn't happen, and my main cause of actual anger was in relation to the poster who seemed to believe that because (according to him) he spent some money, that his opinion was more valid than anyone elses.
My personal opinion (Which seems to be mostly born out by available evidence) Is that the adding of the IRW prefix to the T6 Intel warbirds was a mistake on Cryptic's part, that they never intended to do so. I also believe that, given the amount of groaning some devs have uttered simply regarding adding the Lleiset interior to the Scimitar bridge (Among other things) that this has about as much chance of happening as New Romulus does of being updated.
That said, my point is not suppressing dissent (Your victim playing aside). Its merely to point out that this has already been discussed to death, and most ended up agreeing that it was okay.
Suppress dissent was your own words. Any lack of awareness is your own. I provided reasons why I think it wouldn't happen, and my main cause of actual anger was in relation to the poster who seemed to believe that because (according to him) he spent some money, that his opinion was more valid than anyone elses.
Also your words. Yet I'm not the one trying to shut down any discussion on the topic.
My personal opinion (Which seems to be mostly born out by available evidence) Is that the adding of the IRW prefix to the T6 Intel warbirds was a mistake on Cryptic's part, that they never intended to do so. I also believe that, given the amount of groaning some devs have uttered simply regarding adding the Lleiset interior to the Scimitar bridge (Among other things) that this has about as much chance of happening as New Romulus does of being updated.
And what exactly indicates that it was a 'mistake' that it was included? absolutely nothing. And even if it turned out to be the case, than that would indicate a bit of a double standard as far as Prefixes go, which is a perfectly valid target of criticism. If anything, Cryptic dragging their feet in regards to things like the Lleiset interior (or so many other issues the community has) is indicative of a degree of laziness and/or slipshod work. Much more likely I think that Cryptic is just doing the bare minimum work in regard to Republic content, and can't be bothered to
That said, my point is not suppressing dissent (Your victim playing aside). Its merely to point out that this has already been discussed to death, and most ended up agreeing that it was okay.
Funny, it has that effect. As Protogoth pointed out, the moment we stop talking about these issues we pretty much preclude any possibility of ever getting the issues we want to see addressed, addressed.
So you want discussion on this topic-where opinion has pretty reliably swayed against your position-to be shut down, which has the side effect of ensuring that the status quo is maintained and nobody gets to question it. Yeah, that sounds like trying to shut down dissent to me.
Now I'd be interested to hear how you could conceivably claim that the opposite position-that discussion remain open could possibly be construed as suppressing dissent.
So you want discussion on this topic-where opinion has pretty reliably swayed against your position-to be shut down, which has the side effect of ensuring that the status quo is maintained and nobody gets to question it. Yeah, that sounds like trying to shut down dissent to me.
Attributing such a motive to her is a mistake. That was not her intention.
So you want discussion on this topic-where opinion has pretty reliably swayed against your position-to be shut down, which has the side effect of ensuring that the status quo is maintained and nobody gets to question it. Yeah, that sounds like trying to shut down dissent to me.
Attributing such a motive to her is a mistake. That was not her intention.
If it isn't, then I apologize. It certainly doesn't come across that way.
c'mon people even protogoth admitted there was no good reason to deny the IRW prefix. Can't we just let it rest there?
Let no dead horse go unbeaten!
^sto forum rule #2
This is exactly my point. I'm not trying to shut down anything. Just pointing out that this is a dead horse being beaten. There are so many more important things to request than use of a prefix. Though as an idea, perhaps request the ability to buy prefixes for Zen, like with the NX prefix.
Comments
Enterprise... trolling Trek cannon since ep1
While I agree with the sentiment, I do have one minor nitpick:
The W in I.R.W. and R.R.W. stands for Warbird. As shuttles are not warbirds - they are (wait for it) shuttles - there shouldn't even be a prefix AT ALL for them.
Otherwise, I fully support both prefixes for all Romulan Warbirds. Prizes are often taken in war, and that can work either way. Salvage and espionage happen, too.
2. It seems a bit arbitrary to me, to think that the Star Empire would not develop similar technology, to that of the Republic, after a time, even with limited resources.
Tal'Shiar/Reman Resistance/Romulan Nemesis uniform, pls.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7403/13262502435_5604548f2c_o.png
It is arbitrary, but that doesn't make it an Empire design. It's pretty clearly Republic. It says so in the ingame shipyard description.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
the faction exists, its just not a player faction. And most of the warbirds the republic had at the beginning were repurposed imperial vessels
Let no dead horse go unbeaten!
Along with many other factions we can use prefixes for that we can't play as -or are actively at war with, like with the mirror Federation.
It just doesn't make any sense why the D'D should be excluded from the IRW club when there are much more bizarre ships and prefixes out there in relation to STO's storyline that one can use.
Despite all our best efforts, the outbreak of plague zombies on the colony world of Thread 2031 has progressed beyond our ability to contain it. I have managed to evacuate all remaining Starfleet personnel on the surface, and what remains of the civilian population. However, there remain a great many personal craft on the planet's surface. These creatures have shown a limited, but malevolent intelligence. Therefore, pursuant to Starfleet Regulations, I am executing General Order 24.
At any rate, the current level of technology available to the Star Empire at this point is pretty much irrelevant thanks to a considerable number of precedents make it mind boggling that Cryptic would draw the line here if that were the case.
This is a game afterall that lets you pit a Constellation class against a Nebula class on equal footing (both available at T5.5 U)
To say nothing of the Enterprise era ships available at T5.5 U.
And for those who want to bar the IRW prefix from it for lore reasons- we already have the T6 Intel ship which is explicitly Republic built and can use the IRW prefix. We also have fleetgrade ships-which also are not Imperial made and yet can use the Imperial prefix.
As I see it, prefixes are for RPrs who want to think of their ship as being part of a faction other than Starfleet/KDF/Republic military. Think of it-what sense would it make for a ship to be flying the ISS prefix if one went solely by the storyline?
In that way, it's similar to how ship skins are utilized in game. Of course it doesn't make any sense whatsoever to have a constellation (or even a Cheyenne) class go toe-to-toe with a Nebula. Reasonably the higher tier versions would be locked to using the 2409 hulls like the Dakota or Stargazer, but Cryptic gave the Constellation and Cheyenne skins for folks who would like to use 'classic' skins instead of Cryptic-designed hulls.
Same thing with the D'Khellra. It's flat out defined as being a separate ship from the D'D, yet allows the use of of the D'D skin, despite that being a different ship. Yet one curiously never hears anyone asking to remove the D'D skin options from the D'Khellra. Double standard, IMO.
And yet here you are, continuing to post your own opinion on the matter. Over and over and over. Pot, Kettle. If you feel like there's nothing of value left for you to contribute to the thread, then don't post.
It's still relevant as long as there are players who want that Prefix on their ships and can't get it, as much as I'm sure you'd like all dissent to your opinion to cease. Threads such as this keep Cryptic aware of the issues that might concern the community.
Point with the ISS prefix being that it's equally absurd to be flying under the flag of the Mirror Federation going by this game's storyline. But it's in there as an option because the ability to fly mirror universe ships appeals to trek fans for obvious reasons. The appeal of flying a Romulan Star Empire D'deridex should likewise be obvious.
from an rp perspective they dont have to.. they can use a PADD, ha.ck republic mainframes, and download full blueprints and technical data... I mean if it can ha.ck BORG tech in orbit....
[ Still Waiting for a Shiny New T6 Romulan Science Ship to Command ]
I have no intention of ending my quest for full-faction status for the RRF. And each time Cryptic adds something to the game which could be tweaked so as to facilitate that, I intend to explain how it could be done. Thus, new arguments for that are possible. In addition, this is how Socratic dialectic works. You offer a definition, it gets rejected, you improve on your definition or offer an alternative definition, the process continues.
Further, if we were to stop petitioning for full-faction status for the RRF, Cryptic might assume we have finally resigned ourselves to the status quo.
Granted, I believe that the two (and only two) T6 warbirds which can be assigned the IRW prefix are examples of something which was not intended (exactly as the QIb and Mat'ha come out of the box with RRW on them, which was clearly not intended, but which cannot be retained if the player attempts to rename the ships), and yet, Cryptic has done nothing to remove that option. Of course, this could be another example of their infamous neglect of an issue until they get around to again going over something in which the issue is found, but it is still a precedent.
I don't like the fact that I can't put OSS on all of the ships my two Orions have. I see no reason why we should not be able to use OSS on any ship an Orion character has, nor ISS on any ship a Fed character has, nor VSS on any ship a Vulcan character has, and the list goes on. The inclusion of these alternate prefixes was never intended as anything other than a means of facilitating RP, and while they are hardly necessary from the PoV of game mechanics, they do help to make the environment more user-friendly.
And as I stated previously, if IRW were allowed on any warbird, we could finally lay to rest the assertion that has been made by some RSE/Tal'Shiar supporters that the reason we see so many more warbirds with RRW than IRW is simply because most T6 ships cannot use IRW, because we would still see so many more with a Republic registry prefix and could again hold that up as evidence of the reality that more Romulan/Reman players support the Republic than the Star Empire.
And again, if "ahr'Lleiset mnhei'sahe mnei" is to be more than a saying, we must walk the walk as well as talk the talk. If these yahoos want to go around representing the enormous PHAIL which is the RSE, let them. Then we can point and laugh at them (and more easily identify them for our military campaign to defeat the RSE and liberate its citizens).
My personal opinion (Which seems to be mostly born out by available evidence) Is that the adding of the IRW prefix to the T6 Intel warbirds was a mistake on Cryptic's part, that they never intended to do so. I also believe that, given the amount of groaning some devs have uttered simply regarding adding the Lleiset interior to the Scimitar bridge (Among other things) that this has about as much chance of happening as New Romulus does of being updated.
That said, my point is not suppressing dissent (Your victim playing aside). Its merely to point out that this has already been discussed to death, and most ended up agreeing that it was okay.
Also your words. Yet I'm not the one trying to shut down any discussion on the topic.
And what exactly indicates that it was a 'mistake' that it was included? absolutely nothing. And even if it turned out to be the case, than that would indicate a bit of a double standard as far as Prefixes go, which is a perfectly valid target of criticism. If anything, Cryptic dragging their feet in regards to things like the Lleiset interior (or so many other issues the community has) is indicative of a degree of laziness and/or slipshod work. Much more likely I think that Cryptic is just doing the bare minimum work in regard to Republic content, and can't be bothered to
Funny, it has that effect. As Protogoth pointed out, the moment we stop talking about these issues we pretty much preclude any possibility of ever getting the issues we want to see addressed, addressed.
So you want discussion on this topic-where opinion has pretty reliably swayed against your position-to be shut down, which has the side effect of ensuring that the status quo is maintained and nobody gets to question it. Yeah, that sounds like trying to shut down dissent to me.
Now I'd be interested to hear how you could conceivably claim that the opposite position-that discussion remain open could possibly be construed as suppressing dissent.
Attributing such a motive to her is a mistake. That was not her intention.
If it isn't, then I apologize. It certainly doesn't come across that way.
^sto forum rule #2
This is exactly my point. I'm not trying to shut down anything. Just pointing out that this is a dead horse being beaten. There are so many more important things to request than use of a prefix. Though as an idea, perhaps request the ability to buy prefixes for Zen, like with the NX prefix.
So.....carry on.