My question is: Will someone from a small Fleet with only a Tier 2 Shipyard be able to buy a Tier 4 ship if their Alpha or Beta above them has a Tier 4 or above shipyard?
My friends and I started our own fleet because we didn't want to deal with a massive group of strangers. So the new system addresses that by....asking us to deal with a massive group of strangers.
From what I understand, you need to interact only ONCE with only ONE leader of ONE Beta fleet to get invited as Gamma fleet. After that, just make sure that your projects are open for donations. No need to actually hang out with members of other fleets in Armada.
What do veteran player who already has enough Fleet marks get from Armada's? I am a little worried there will be little to no worth while content for veteran player's.
Gamma Sigma Command is a small fleet and we are looking to join with a bigger fleet for this anyone interested can you please send me a IM in game or on here and I will message you back
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
One thing I noticed reading through this thread is that so many have forgotten that no fleet is obligated to join an armada. Most of the complaints can be answered simply by the phrase, "don't join an armada."
If you want the benefits, join... If not, don't...
I've got very small fleets on both the FED and KDF side. We'll be looking for a simple armada to join as a gamma fleet on both sides hoping to speed up the process of getting to higher tiers, with the hope of branching off on our own when we get to a comfortable spot... if anyone is recruiting gamma fleets, pm me!
CM
"Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure science." - Edwin Hubble
How about just lowering the damn resource requirements?
Your competitors, SWTOR and ESO, are drastically reducing, within one case removing, the grinding systems.
STO is falling behind.
I am now a f2p-subcriber-expansion buyer over at SWTOR. I use to be a mini-whale f2p player in STO. I jumped ship because of Cryptic's decisions to: impliment long timegates, increase resource requirements, increase xp requirements (level 55 to 60), nerf rewards, make t5 content obsolete, etc... I don't understand why people allow themselves to be abused.
I am hoping Cryptic will see the light; thus, they will remember STO was supposed be a story driven rpg.
My question is: Will someone from a small Fleet with only a Tier 2 Shipyard be able to buy a Tier 4 ship if their Alpha or Beta above them has a Tier 4 or above shipyard?
I believe the answer is no. The only thing the small fleet gets is a reduced dilithium requirement for projects and the sad dream that the larger fleet will fill all your projects with doffs and dilithium.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
How about just lowering the damn resource requirements?
plenty of us managed to meet the resource requirements. just because it wasnt a priority for you, thats no excuse to give you a big discount.
Not backing the point of getting a discount, but I don't think it's accurate to assume it wasn't a priority for everybody in a small fleet. I have spent literally several hundred bucks buying dilithium for my small fleets projects. And I've spent countless hours grinding fleet marks and EC to fill all requirements. I sacrifice a lot of both time and also advanced gear for toons in favour of filling fleet projects. Yet I'm pretty much the sole contributor so progress is slow when you're filling things designed for upto 500 people to fill.
Like I say, I'm not backing the idea of a discount, I'm actually really looking forward to the armada idea. But you shouldn't confuse small fleets being slower to progress with a lack of interest or priority.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
its a mistake to assume that fleet members contribute doffs and dil even in a large fleet. the notion that 499 more members equates to you doing 1/500th of the donations is a myth.
the single defining characteristic i have found in the majority of high tiered fleets its the leaders capacity to take ownership of projects and get them into cd.
its a mistake to assume that fleet members contribute doffs and dil even in a large fleet. the notion that 499 more members equates to you doing 1/500th of the donations is a myth.
the single defining characteristic i have found in the majority of high tiered fleets its the leaders capacity to take ownership of projects and get them into cd.
I don't make that assumption at all. My KDF toons are all part of a large fleet and I know very well which contributions actually get filled by users. But still, any contribution is better than no contribution.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
From the article: Fleets will be able to control which projects other Fleets are allowed to donate to, and will be able to control both what resources their Fleet members can donate to other Fleets and what resources other Fleets can donate to them.
^ My initial impression is that this really sucks. Need more details on which fleet controls donations to which projects.
The fleet with the projects to be donated to, controls which fleets can donate. [I.E.: Beta Fleet has a Project that requires Dilithium, Fleet marks, and Stem bolts. They allow everyone to donate Dilithium, but only allow the Alpha fleet to Donate Stembolts, and only allow the Gamma Fleet to Donate fleet marks. however, within the beta fleet itself, things remain unchanged as to how they are now.]
Seems to me that the most meaningful projects for higher tier fleets in the armada to contribute to will be the ones that grow a lower tiered fleets' Starbase directly, ie; base upgrade project; Shipyard/Com Array/Industrial Rep & their upgrade projects.
Fleet holdings (Embassy; Dilithium Mine; Spire) at this point do not increase a fleets 'level', or is this going to change?
So if the above is true, lower tiered fleets should mainly expect (or hope) that projects such as "Practice Tactical Exercises", "Engineering Construction Projects" and "Theoretical Modeling Projects" may be filled by others. This way only Dilithium needed will be for the various upgrade projects, which will likely take the longest to fill.
Once all fleets in the armada are level 20, then excess resources could be distributed to the various fleets holdings that are lacking. But at that point, other than fleet credit generation, there is no benefit to the armada.
Something you seriously need to implement (read: copy and paste) from Neverwinter's guild rosters are the two separate columns for toon name & handle. It would make promotions of more then one toon belonging to the same player much easier. It would be great if we could get separate totals for how many toons and accounts we have. Just like in Neverwinter.
My friends and I started our own fleet because we didn't want to deal with a massive group of strangers. So the new system addresses that by....asking us to deal with a massive group of strangers.
I don't think that armadas are mandatory. I do wonder if certain holdings will be only for armadas (more than one fleet.)
My friends and I started our own fleet because we didn't want to deal with a massive group of strangers. So the new system addresses that by....asking us to deal with a massive group of strangers.
I don't think that armadas are mandatory. I do wonder if certain holdings will be only for armadas (more than one fleet.)
They're probably the only pass we're getting at an attempt to reconcile the resource gap between large and small fleets, so sure, they're not mandatory...Unless you want your small fleet to ever actually see any progress.
How about just lowering the damn resource requirements?
plenty of us managed to meet the resource requirements. just because it wasnt a priority for you, thats no excuse to give you a big discount.
TRIBBLE. YOU. I broke my back trying to make progress for my friends in our small fleet, and they were constantly torn between guilt at not contributing more and frustration at not being able to spend resources on their own rep and gear. That system drove most of my fleet out of the game entirely, and cryptic's design strategies did the rest. I am now the only person left that even tries to play this game regularly, and it is frustrating and heartbreaking. So don't you dare come in here and act like you've got some leg up on us in the effort department just because you happen to be part of a larger fleet that never had to deal with that TRIBBLE.
Fleet projects in this game rapidly become depressing and frustrating for small fleets. That's a -fact-.
The fleet system in this game is a massive painful grind. Sure, we can give up on the idea of ever having T5 resources, but that's a really TRIBBLE way to design a game that's -presumably- supposed to be a place where groups of friends and Trek fans can come together to enjoy their favorite sci-fi universe. "Oh, sorry, you don't value large groups over close friends enough, no aquarius for you!" "Oh, you want Yellowstone runabouts? Sorry, bite me, your fleet's too small!"
This isn't some real-world situation where it takes actual stuff to build things. Dilithium is not a finite resource that is physically necessary for the construction of a thing. It's a fictional content-reward in a videogame with a required quantity that boils down to a number that a dev MADE UP. The devs made a conscious decision to gate fleet unlocks outside of the range of small fleets, and some of us happen to think that's a crappy exclusionary design decision. And apparently SO DO THEY, because they keep at least acting like they're trying to remedy the situation, even though every attempt I've seen thus far has just made the situation worse. (coughcoughdilithiumminecough)
My friends and I started our own fleet because we didn't want to deal with a massive group of strangers. So the new system addresses that by....asking us to deal with a massive group of strangers.
I don't think that armadas are mandatory. I do wonder if certain holdings will be only for armadas (more than one fleet.)
Roughly my take on this issue is its got many loopholes for exploitation as well as because massive groups of strangers who will hack each other to bits just to get their grindfests done.
I will say this thought its sort of like a final push to collect as much money as they can before this game just goes up as another one of PWE's games where its left running but not developed any further. Which given how long the game has been around its sort a dinosaur being that most games either have gone into sequels or modified enough that it puts this game atleast a generation behind most mmorpgs out there.
The nicest way I can ever put my personal views or feelings towards cryptic though. Their original publlisher and "Cryptic" they were trying to both get into an industry that they didn't really understand. Although looking back and to the present they would be a very good company in the facebook game market but as far as mmorpgs they don't have the momentum to keep up. These grindfests don't do them justice but in markets where their current publisher is from that is what kind of games players like to play. I just have to distance myself from a grindfest in which what I am grinding for is going to be useless guaranteed within 12 months from its release and the fact that the kinds of content from the KDF player I am that only recently the negh'var after almost half a decade of waiting for finally arrived but as burnt out on this game as I am I can't even stomach grinding one character up to get the mastery trait from it lol. As well if one character is out of bounds what is 20+ KDF characters going to do if you have to do every ship per character. The grindfest rabbit hole designing seems to have gone too far off the deep end to relate to the players it seems and I can already see 10+ ways people are going to exploit this armada thing. Then on top of that as much work(in a video game yeah) for fleets that grinded it out they are not really going to be willing to give freebies out to possibly fleets that destroy their gameplay by afking thru reps and such.
Yeah biggest wall of text yet but in the end it feels like 100 cooks in a small kitchen throwing pots and pans at each other while shelling money out to the owner of the kitchen while trying to not get thumped in the head seeing stars like on cartoon.
Edit: also reminds me of some games that coming up in content soon will be addressing their first installment of guilds/fleets lol now I know why they put any effort into this lol.
I plan on putting our small fleets into armadas as gamma fleets. If no one else donates to our projects to help advance the fleet, then we're no worse off than before. If we get random donations, then the help will be greatly appreciated...
CM
"Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure science." - Edwin Hubble
TRIBBLE. YOU. I broke my back trying to make progress for my friends in our small fleet, and they were constantly torn between guilt at not contributing more and frustration at not being able to spend resources on their own rep and gear. That system drove most of my fleet out of the game entirely, and cryptic's design strategies did the rest. I am now the only person left that even tries to play this game regularly, and it is frustrating and heartbreaking. So don't you dare come in here and act like you've got some leg up on us in the effort department just because you happen to be part of a larger fleet that never had to deal with that TRIBBLE.
Fleet projects in this game rapidly become depressing and frustrating for small fleets. That's a -fact-.
not every fleet that levels is a 'large fleet'. in fact, some are exceedingly small. i can think of two that are solo fleets, in fact.
in case it isnt already evident, it takes a bit of effort to level a fleet, and if you arent willing to put in that effort... not every fleet deserves to hit t5.
Is fleet level being determined differently on Tribble?
Per Cryptic: "All Fleets in an Armada will receive bonuses that increase based on the total Fleet level of all Fleets in the Armada."
If the bonuses are based on Armada Level (which is sum of all the Fleet Levels of the alpha, beta, gamma fleets) then can we get a breakdown for how fleet level is determined? On Holodeck, max level is 20 (which comes only from upgrading starbase/shipyard/fabricator/comm array up to the 5 tiers -- no credit for embassy, mine, or spire), but I'm seeing fleets with completed everything (incl. Research Lab) at level 29 -- I find it hard to believe the Research Lab alone is worth 9 unless they have yet to make embassy/mine/spire each worth 9 to max as well, so I'm expecting these are recalculated someway.
I see a lot of discussion between small fleets vs large fleets.How does one define the size of a fleet? I assume it is based on the number of players in a fleet. My fleet started with 3 members, and we got it to T5. It took a lot of resources, but we did it. Cryptic did not put an overdue burden on my fleet just because our roster lacked depth.
At the current time we are going to sit back, and watch how the Armada system develops and go from there.
How about just lowering the resource requirements for both small and large fleets? "Star Trek: Online" is a video game; thus, the mechanics should not reflect a real world market. Are people playing a video game, or are they playing a real stock exchange? Video games are about 'escaping reality'; therefore, the addition of real world mechanics defeats the game's purpose.
Something to think about: Once the goal becomes about unlocking rewards, rather than earning them directly, "Star Trek: Online" will no longer be a form of entertainment. Name one piece of MACO or Omega ground/space gear that you can get from completing a mission story? How about the Delta or Iconian rep gear? Players should be getting these unique rewards for completing missions, tasks, etc... We should not be filling buckets to obtain unique items.
Fleet and reputation systems are signs of a creativity problem.
Also, the conversation should not be about 'small versus large fleets'. If you stand back for a moment, you will realize that Cryptic is the problem. Cryptic created the whole 'us versus them' issue.
Is fleet level being determined differently on Tribble?
Per Cryptic: "All Fleets in an Armada will receive bonuses that increase based on the total Fleet level of all Fleets in the Armada."
If the bonuses are based on Armada Level (which is sum of all the Fleet Levels of the alpha, beta, gamma fleets) then can we get a breakdown for how fleet level is determined? On Holodeck, max level is 20 (which comes only from upgrading starbase/shipyard/fabricator/comm array up to the 5 tiers -- no credit for embassy, mine, or spire), but I'm seeing fleets with completed everything (incl. Research Lab) at level 29 -- I find it hard to believe the Research Lab alone is worth 9 unless they have yet to make embassy/mine/spire each worth 9 to max as well, so I'm expecting these are recalculated someway.
borticus had this to say on reddit:
Every Holding Tier, including Subtracks = 1 Starbase Level
If you have a T3 Shipyard (Tac), a T5 Fabricator (Eng), and T2 in both Embassy subtracks, that's a total of 12 Starbase Levels.
It's not a linear progression, but rather the culmination of your total number of Holding Tiers.
My query would be are there any large fleets left that still actually play the game? I know most of mine died with the announcements and release of season 7 and DR. So basically they are adding even more grind with people dropping out of the playerbase like moth to the flame.
Comments
Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
From what I understand, you need to interact only ONCE with only ONE leader of ONE Beta fleet to get invited as Gamma fleet. After that, just make sure that your projects are open for donations. No need to actually hang out with members of other fleets in Armada.
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
If you want the benefits, join... If not, don't...
I've got very small fleets on both the FED and KDF side. We'll be looking for a simple armada to join as a gamma fleet on both sides hoping to speed up the process of getting to higher tiers, with the hope of branching off on our own when we get to a comfortable spot... if anyone is recruiting gamma fleets, pm me!
CM
How about just lowering the damn resource requirements?
Your competitors, SWTOR and ESO, are drastically reducing, within one case removing, the grinding systems.
STO is falling behind.
I am now a f2p-subcriber-expansion buyer over at SWTOR. I use to be a mini-whale f2p player in STO. I jumped ship because of Cryptic's decisions to: impliment long timegates, increase resource requirements, increase xp requirements (level 55 to 60), nerf rewards, make t5 content obsolete, etc... I don't understand why people allow themselves to be abused.
I am hoping Cryptic will see the light; thus, they will remember STO was supposed be a story driven rpg.
I believe the answer is no. The only thing the small fleet gets is a reduced dilithium requirement for projects and the sad dream that the larger fleet will fill all your projects with doffs and dilithium.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
plenty of us managed to meet the resource requirements. just because it wasnt a priority for you, thats no excuse to give you a big discount.
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Not backing the point of getting a discount, but I don't think it's accurate to assume it wasn't a priority for everybody in a small fleet. I have spent literally several hundred bucks buying dilithium for my small fleets projects. And I've spent countless hours grinding fleet marks and EC to fill all requirements. I sacrifice a lot of both time and also advanced gear for toons in favour of filling fleet projects. Yet I'm pretty much the sole contributor so progress is slow when you're filling things designed for upto 500 people to fill.
Like I say, I'm not backing the idea of a discount, I'm actually really looking forward to the armada idea. But you shouldn't confuse small fleets being slower to progress with a lack of interest or priority.
the single defining characteristic i have found in the majority of high tiered fleets its the leaders capacity to take ownership of projects and get them into cd.
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I don't make that assumption at all. My KDF toons are all part of a large fleet and I know very well which contributions actually get filled by users. But still, any contribution is better than no contribution.
The fleet with the projects to be donated to, controls which fleets can donate. [I.E.: Beta Fleet has a Project that requires Dilithium, Fleet marks, and Stem bolts. They allow everyone to donate Dilithium, but only allow the Alpha fleet to Donate Stembolts, and only allow the Gamma Fleet to Donate fleet marks. however, within the beta fleet itself, things remain unchanged as to how they are now.]
Fleet holdings (Embassy; Dilithium Mine; Spire) at this point do not increase a fleets 'level', or is this going to change?
So if the above is true, lower tiered fleets should mainly expect (or hope) that projects such as "Practice Tactical Exercises", "Engineering Construction Projects" and "Theoretical Modeling Projects" may be filled by others. This way only Dilithium needed will be for the various upgrade projects, which will likely take the longest to fill.
Once all fleets in the armada are level 20, then excess resources could be distributed to the various fleets holdings that are lacking. But at that point, other than fleet credit generation, there is no benefit to the armada.
Am I off base here?
Recruitment: Neverwinter Online (spotlight)(wiki) - Star Trek Online Federation - Star Trek Online Klingon - Star Trek Online Romulan - Champions Online
Guild FAQs: Neverwinter FAQ - Star Trek FAQ - Champions FAQ ..........Facebook: Mattachine Guild
I don't think that armadas are mandatory. I do wonder if certain holdings will be only for armadas (more than one fleet.)
Hah, good catch!
There's also a certain TOS feel about some pieces of it, especially in the corridor image.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
They're probably the only pass we're getting at an attempt to reconcile the resource gap between large and small fleets, so sure, they're not mandatory...Unless you want your small fleet to ever actually see any progress.
TRIBBLE. YOU. I broke my back trying to make progress for my friends in our small fleet, and they were constantly torn between guilt at not contributing more and frustration at not being able to spend resources on their own rep and gear. That system drove most of my fleet out of the game entirely, and cryptic's design strategies did the rest. I am now the only person left that even tries to play this game regularly, and it is frustrating and heartbreaking. So don't you dare come in here and act like you've got some leg up on us in the effort department just because you happen to be part of a larger fleet that never had to deal with that TRIBBLE.
Fleet projects in this game rapidly become depressing and frustrating for small fleets. That's a -fact-.
The fleet system in this game is a massive painful grind. Sure, we can give up on the idea of ever having T5 resources, but that's a really TRIBBLE way to design a game that's -presumably- supposed to be a place where groups of friends and Trek fans can come together to enjoy their favorite sci-fi universe. "Oh, sorry, you don't value large groups over close friends enough, no aquarius for you!" "Oh, you want Yellowstone runabouts? Sorry, bite me, your fleet's too small!"
This isn't some real-world situation where it takes actual stuff to build things. Dilithium is not a finite resource that is physically necessary for the construction of a thing. It's a fictional content-reward in a videogame with a required quantity that boils down to a number that a dev MADE UP. The devs made a conscious decision to gate fleet unlocks outside of the range of small fleets, and some of us happen to think that's a crappy exclusionary design decision. And apparently SO DO THEY, because they keep at least acting like they're trying to remedy the situation, even though every attempt I've seen thus far has just made the situation worse. (coughcoughdilithiumminecough)
Roughly my take on this issue is its got many loopholes for exploitation as well as because massive groups of strangers who will hack each other to bits just to get their grindfests done.
I will say this thought its sort of like a final push to collect as much money as they can before this game just goes up as another one of PWE's games where its left running but not developed any further. Which given how long the game has been around its sort a dinosaur being that most games either have gone into sequels or modified enough that it puts this game atleast a generation behind most mmorpgs out there.
The nicest way I can ever put my personal views or feelings towards cryptic though. Their original publlisher and "Cryptic" they were trying to both get into an industry that they didn't really understand. Although looking back and to the present they would be a very good company in the facebook game market but as far as mmorpgs they don't have the momentum to keep up. These grindfests don't do them justice but in markets where their current publisher is from that is what kind of games players like to play. I just have to distance myself from a grindfest in which what I am grinding for is going to be useless guaranteed within 12 months from its release and the fact that the kinds of content from the KDF player I am that only recently the negh'var after almost half a decade of waiting for finally arrived but as burnt out on this game as I am I can't even stomach grinding one character up to get the mastery trait from it lol. As well if one character is out of bounds what is 20+ KDF characters going to do if you have to do every ship per character. The grindfest rabbit hole designing seems to have gone too far off the deep end to relate to the players it seems and I can already see 10+ ways people are going to exploit this armada thing. Then on top of that as much work(in a video game yeah) for fleets that grinded it out they are not really going to be willing to give freebies out to possibly fleets that destroy their gameplay by afking thru reps and such.
Yeah biggest wall of text yet but in the end it feels like 100 cooks in a small kitchen throwing pots and pans at each other while shelling money out to the owner of the kitchen while trying to not get thumped in the head seeing stars like on cartoon.
Edit: also reminds me of some games that coming up in content soon will be addressing their first installment of guilds/fleets lol now I know why they put any effort into this lol.
CM
not every fleet that levels is a 'large fleet'. in fact, some are exceedingly small. i can think of two that are solo fleets, in fact.
in case it isnt already evident, it takes a bit of effort to level a fleet, and if you arent willing to put in that effort... not every fleet deserves to hit t5.
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Per Cryptic: "All Fleets in an Armada will receive bonuses that increase based on the total Fleet level of all Fleets in the Armada."
If the bonuses are based on Armada Level (which is sum of all the Fleet Levels of the alpha, beta, gamma fleets) then can we get a breakdown for how fleet level is determined? On Holodeck, max level is 20 (which comes only from upgrading starbase/shipyard/fabricator/comm array up to the 5 tiers -- no credit for embassy, mine, or spire), but I'm seeing fleets with completed everything (incl. Research Lab) at level 29 -- I find it hard to believe the Research Lab alone is worth 9 unless they have yet to make embassy/mine/spire each worth 9 to max as well, so I'm expecting these are recalculated someway.
My STOwiki page | Reachable in-game @PhyrexianHero
Fed Armada: Section 31 (level 730, 2700+ members)
KDF Armada: Klingon Intelligence (level 699, 2100+ members)
At the current time we are going to sit back, and watch how the Armada system develops and go from there.
Something to think about: Once the goal becomes about unlocking rewards, rather than earning them directly, "Star Trek: Online" will no longer be a form of entertainment. Name one piece of MACO or Omega ground/space gear that you can get from completing a mission story? How about the Delta or Iconian rep gear? Players should be getting these unique rewards for completing missions, tasks, etc... We should not be filling buckets to obtain unique items.
Fleet and reputation systems are signs of a creativity problem.
Also, the conversation should not be about 'small versus large fleets'. If you stand back for a moment, you will realize that Cryptic is the problem. Cryptic created the whole 'us versus them' issue.
CBS has to stand up and get involved.
Why would a franchise want their fanbase divided?
borticus had this to say on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/3c43j1/star_base_levels_question/
...which makes no sense tbh.
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My character Tsin'xing
Fleet A: 20
Fleet B: 12
Then the Armada level is 32