So guess what, tehbubbaloo? Multifaction fleet networks are already a thing. Cross-faction armadas would just give us an extra feature to use. My Feds and Fed Rom in Strike Team Alpha have all kinds of stuff they could donate to House of Alphas to help the currently T1 fleet make rent, stuff I can barely use in STA because we've got 400-some-odd members all competing to earn fleet credits.
What are you afraid is going to happen? It's not like we're asking to put elite fleet disruptors on our Feds.
obviously cross-faction multifleet networks already exist. beautiful is one in itself. what we arent demanding is the ability to play one faction while nation-building the other.
So far, you're the only person who seems to think that's what people are asking for.
How, exactly, does that help small fleets? It helps members of small fleets, yes (I myself have benefitted from personal friendship with members of maxed-out fleets, not the "Free T5 Starbase access for all!" fleets). But if they don't have to work to help build their own fleets, and can simply go to someone in a maxed-out fleet to get the stuff they want, what incentive do they have to contribute to their own fleet?
it helps small fleets by disincentivizing their members from leaving the fleet. small fleet members are able to kit themselves out without needing to abandon the fleet in search of higher tiered holdings. they contribute to their own small fleet in order to generate fleet credit to be spent in higher tiered stores. its a huge win for small fleets.
That's a nice theory, but one which ignores the reality of how little fleet credits it takes to get fleet gear, and how many are required to level a fleet. Trickle-down economics, almost, which is a lie in the fog.
its been proven out over two years of NoP invites. go see the small fleet-leader testimonials in the thread for yourself. if the base-invites werent available, people would simply leave the small fleets and join the fleets with the holdings.
Considering most my characters belong to The Rising Dawn or The Rising Night, sister alliances that have a shared alliance channel and most of our user base has characters in both, the argument that separation is for "uniqueness" or "diversity" is bulldung and anyone spewing it is either an idiot or lying to himself/herself. My 2 alts in a rom(fed) only fleet have also watched it grind up to finish most t3 projects largely on the backs of 4 of its members, if the rom(klink) alts could contribute further to our projects we would probably be closer to starting t5. There is no GOOD reason to deny cross faction alliance contribution anymore.
To quote Khan, "We're one big happy fleet." this is all STO is anymore, even the dialogue options we're given are all written like were politically correct, happy little pajama navy drones.
M. Night should make a sequel to The Happening...The Entitling. Cause it's hard not to picture it as some part of overall immune response from the planet to the threat posed by humans.
All factions under one roof. Share and share alike.
Become the kind of person Mr. Rogers wanted you to be.
Mr. Rogers wanted folks to be neighborly, he didn't want them under his roof. Neighbors...separate roofs...
Okay. All factions under one neighborhood. Where they share and are friendly to one another and do their best to help each other out.
Not by building 10 foot tall concrete privacy fences with barbed wire and complaining about how the house across the street gets preferential treatment.
no. i strongly believe that you dont deserve to level a starbase in a faction you dont even play.
want a t5 kdf starbase? log in and play kdf. its that simple.
Levelling a KDF Starbase is not something for people that don't play KDF in the first place. If I didn't play KDF, I would not care one bit what happens with KDF starbases.
People that want to level a KDF starbase are per se KDF players.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Quite frankly the Starfleet/KDF divide has been meaningless in this game since the Klingon War arc ended. Barring "The Tribble with Klingons", literally ever single time after that where the two sides meet, they're working together against common foes.
Yes, this in it entirety. People have been asking for this for as long as I can remember. And personally I don't why cryptic doesn't resolve this issue once and for all. Hell I've been running missions along side members from our KDF sister fleet for a the last few days by jumping in the random queues and coordinating via voice chat to make sure we get into the same map/team. So why cant we cross faction team?
This is not a blending of the factions, it is a ease of restrictions with teaming and fleeting. With protogoth as one of the proposers of this idea, I am sure that this will still keep the three (probably four, by next year) factions, as distinct from each other as they have ever been.
Well Klingons can already go to a Bajoran station built by Cardassians and administered by Starfleet (DS9). Klingons can be invited to Starfleet/Republic starship bridges (and vice versa), and then there's the little known fact that players with Diplomacy/Maurading level 4 can visit Qo'nos as a Fed and ESD as a Klingon...
What more harm could be done by allowing cross-faction fleet base invites?
Edit: In my personal opinion, I believe that KDF/Fed/Rom cross-faction armadas should only be possible if the leaders of all the fleets have completed "Surface Tension" which would make the whole cross-faction armada thing make sense from a plot point of view. But I realize that implementing such a restriction would be needlessly complicated, so... Nevermind.
Doesn't D'Tan, in that choose your alliance mission, remind the Romulan player that they are supposed to be Romulans first, members of their chosen ally second?
Well, the way the game plays, they are members of their alliance first, and Romulans second (except when it comes to ship selection, or use of the "exclusive" Romulan DOffs and accessing SRO-laden BOffs) when they're first (and only)...
Cross Factions fleets would allow D'Tan's statement to ring even more true. If Feddies and Klinks wind up being closer because of it, well, it's another thing to thank the Republic for...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
So guess what, tehbubbaloo? Multifaction fleet networks are already a thing. Cross-faction armadas would just give us an extra feature to use. My Feds and Fed Rom in Strike Team Alpha have all kinds of stuff they could donate to House of Alphas to help the currently T1 fleet make rent, stuff I can barely use in STA because we've got 400-some-odd members all competing to earn fleet credits.
What are you afraid is going to happen? It's not like we're asking to put elite fleet disruptors on our Feds.
obviously cross-faction multifleet networks already exist. beautiful is one in itself. what we arent demanding is the ability to play one faction while nation-building the other.
Still not seeing an actual response to "what are you afraid of?" Why is it a bad thing to be able to fund a KDF fleet with Fed toons?
I have a Romulan toon and agree that we need to be able to have cross-faction armadas, but one thing we need to realize is that they may not be able to without working out some serous quirks in the existing system. I hope they release this soon, but we may not be able to have cross-faction armadas for some time...
"Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure science." - Edwin Hubble
I have a Romulan toon and agree that we need to be able to have cross-faction armadas, but one thing we need to realize is that they may not be able to without working out some serous quirks in the existing system. I hope they release this soon, but we may not be able to have cross-faction armadas for some time...
I waited a few years to be able to play a Romulan to begin with, I think I'm patient enough to wait for cross-faction armadas and cross-faction teaming.
I'd rather have those features eventually rather than never, if given the option. Not my ideal situation, but you have to take what you can get with Cryptic sometimes.
Things being as they are, why should the KDF people stand by while Feds and Fed-aligned Romulus have access to KDF fleet holdings? Let's be realistic here. The main reason is the acquisition of Fleet Credits.
It's bad enough that Cryptic has made accessible, many of the things that made the KDF appealing (i.e. Plasmonic Leech consoles among other things) through lockboxes. But now, some people are proposing cross-faction Starbase access. Sorry, but enough is enough.
Yea, it is a matter of principle that people don't want others' hands in their cookie jar. I am one of those people. I also support the argument that since we are one big, happy KDF/Rom/Fed alliance, maybe we should at least have cross-faction teams instead of segregated STFs. But I also belive that there should still be some separation among the factions, if anything, for the simple fact that there needs to be diversity and an incentive to play characters of another faction. Breaking down barriers such as what is being proposed will, IMO, dilute that diversity to the point where all we have to choose from is Federation... and not everyone wants to play just on the Federation side of things.
But if this happens, what's the point of even rolling a KDF anymore? The Feds already have most of what made the KDF unique. It has to stop somewhere.
-AoP- Warrior's Blood (KDF Armada) / -AoP- Qu' raD qulbo'Degh / -AoP- ProjectPhoenix Join Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010
Fleets are a purely game community feature. They have no relevance or impact on the game plot, factions or lore. So honestly I think such counter arguments are moot points. The Fed/KDF war, which barely happened to begin with, is over and has been for every Captain since level 20 something.
The factions will retain their uniqueness since we're not swapping ships or gear or anything else, just resources. In fact such a system could convince more people to play KDF since the extra support would have them on equal footing.
Things being as they are, why should the KDF people stand by while Feds and Fed-aligned Romulus have access to KDF fleet holdings? Let's be realistic here. The main reason is the acquisition of Fleet Credits.
It's bad enough that Cryptic has made accessible, many of the things that made the KDF appealing (i.e. Plasmonic Leech consoles among other things) through lockboxes. But now, some people are proposing cross-faction Starbase access. Sorry, but enough is enough.
I don't want cross-faction starbase access, I want cross-faction Armadas. A way for people to support KDF
fleets build their starbase up, so that anyone coming to the KDF has readily available maxed out fleets.
I do not require access to the actual starbase facilities from the other faction. I think that would be dumb. I mean, I could see a point in visiting them or something like that for roleplay, but using the stores there to get cross-faction gear. Meh. Not needed.
If I currently make a new Fed Toon, I can have him join the Fed Fleet I am usually part of and have quick access to all kinds of Fed fleet gear. If I make a KDF toon, I can join the KDF FLeet I am usually part of and... have not acess to all kinds of KDF fleet gear, because the fleet's starbase is still a WIP. I imagine that a lot of people in a situation like this decide that a new KDF character is not very convenient. But that just excerbates the problem, because without KDF characters spending resources on the KDF fleet, it won't get better, but that means the chances of new KDF characters being created and played is low.
It would finally be breaking the cycle if existing Fed characters can dump their resources on a KDF fleet in the armada, advance the fleet's holding and make the experience on any KDF characters much more pleasant.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Fleets are a purely game community feature. They have no relevance or impact on the game plot, factions or lore. So honestly I think such counter arguments are moot points. The Fed/KDF war, which barely happened to begin with, is over and has been for every Captain since level 20 something.
The factions will retain their uniqueness since we're not swapping ships or gear or anything else, just resources. In fact such a system could convince more people to play KDF since the extra support would have them on equal footing.
Exactly.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Still left in awe about people creating racially pure ships, etc. Thus is supposed to be 25th Century, we are beyond all that. Doesn't IDIC mean something in this game. Remember the Intrepid from 'The Immunity Syndrome'; how did that work out with an all Vulcan crew?
Remember that the Organians stated that the Klingons and Federation would become 'fast friends'. Some here could use a dose of that.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
At the same time, and any new player who comes in wouldn't realize the war is over as they would still be battling "fleet mates"all the way through lvl 30... Confusing? Possibly...
CM
"Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure science." - Edwin Hubble
Still left in awe about people creating racially pure ships, etc. Thus is supposed to be 25th Century, we are beyond all that. Doesn't IDIC mean something in this game. Remember the Intrepid from 'The Immunity Syndrome'; how did that work out with an all Vulcan crew?
Remember that the Organians stated that the Klingons and Federation would become 'fast friends'. Some here could use a dose of that.
Funny how the Organians were completely wrong about that. It took barely fifty years after the Khitomer Accords were signed the first time around for the two sides to be on the brink of war again, a war only averted by the loss of an Enterprise to stop the Romulans taking advantage of the chaos. Barely 30 years later the Klingons go off half-cocked on a newly democratic Cardassia and expect the Federation to just accept their wild-TRIBBLE claims of changeling infiltration at face value, and throw a huge tantrum when the Federation Council tells them to knock it off. Same d*mn thing happens 40 years later with the Gorn, and while they were actually right about the infiltration that time, notice how it conveniently gave them exactly what they'd wanted for the preceding twenty or so years before they even knew the Undine were around: conquest of the Gorn.
Fast friends? Only really seeing it from the House of Mogh and the House of Martok, which not coincidentally are the only two houses that don't act like drunken thugs picking unnecessary fights for their personal "honor" all the time. I give the current alliance 30 years, tops, before those petaQpu' quvbe' start causing trouble again. Maybe by that time we'll have a Federation that has the guts to put them out of their misery already.
But cross-faction armadas have nothing to do with all of that, and at the rate Cryptic advances its in-game calendar I doubt STO's still going to be around at that point (not in its current form anyway). Fleets are purely for player benefit and don't have anything to do with the game story. If "Fleet Alert" required you to be teamed only with fleeties, that'd be a counterargument, but it doesn't.
Breaking down barriers such as what is being proposed will, IMO, dilute that diversity to the point where all we have to choose from is Federation... and not everyone wants to play just on the Federation side of things.
Have you played recent content? We're already at the point we all play from the federation perspective, there is nothing unique about the factions now, *infernal place* they've even cut down/eliminated npc comments about your faction or faction specific replies. That boat done sailed bro.
Yes allow cross faction fleets. No, do not force the single top rank player to be Romulan Republic.
Yes DO grant a bonus of some sort if one of the top rank characters is RRF.
The Republic does hold a leading role in the delta quadrant/dyson areas, and that could be recognized but it should NOT become a major restriction concerning armadas.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Yes to cross faction armadas teaming and fleet chats, No to cross faction starbase access. Although the only things worth getting there are the consoles and there available to everyone anyway.
The universe is driven by the complex interaction between three ingredients: matter, energy, and enlightened self-interest. G'Kar
I believe that to be effective, the mechanics question of permitting cross-faction access to starbases and the Fleet Armada system needs to be resolved.
I don't expect FED Captains to have access to the stores of KDF-specific offerings. Nor do I expect KDF Captains to have access to FED-specific store offerings. AFAIK, this is what prevents treating the starbases as social maps at the bare minimum. Which, IMO, has always been a problem for the game.
What I do expect is for Captains to be free to contribute toward Fleet projects regardless of the fleet faction. Which is, as I understood it, the primary point of the Armada system.
(/\) Exploring Star Trek Online Since July 2008 (/\)
Comments
So far, you're the only person who seems to think that's what people are asking for.
That's a nice theory, but one which ignores the reality of how little fleet credits it takes to get fleet gear, and how many are required to level a fleet. Trickle-down economics, almost, which is a lie in the fog.
free jkname
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
To quote Khan, "We're one big happy fleet." this is all STO is anymore, even the dialogue options we're given are all written like were politically correct, happy little pajama navy drones.
Become the kind of person Mr. Rogers wanted you to be.
Mr. Rogers wanted folks to be neighborly, he didn't want them under his roof. Neighbors...separate roofs...
Okay. All factions under one neighborhood. Where they share and are friendly to one another and do their best to help each other out.
Not by building 10 foot tall concrete privacy fences with barbed wire and complaining about how the house across the street gets preferential treatment.
Levelling a KDF Starbase is not something for people that don't play KDF in the first place. If I didn't play KDF, I would not care one bit what happens with KDF starbases.
People that want to level a KDF starbase are per se KDF players.
Yes, this in it entirety. People have been asking for this for as long as I can remember. And personally I don't why cryptic doesn't resolve this issue once and for all. Hell I've been running missions along side members from our KDF sister fleet for a the last few days by jumping in the random queues and coordinating via voice chat to make sure we get into the same map/team. So why cant we cross faction team?
Tal'Shiar/Reman Resistance/Romulan Nemesis uniform, pls.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7403/13262502435_5604548f2c_o.png
But, I don't believe that should mean each faction can fly one another's ships.
What more harm could be done by allowing cross-faction fleet base invites?
Edit: In my personal opinion, I believe that KDF/Fed/Rom cross-faction armadas should only be possible if the leaders of all the fleets have completed "Surface Tension" which would make the whole cross-faction armada thing make sense from a plot point of view. But I realize that implementing such a restriction would be needlessly complicated, so... Nevermind.
Well, the way the game plays, they are members of their alliance first, and Romulans second (except when it comes to ship selection, or use of the "exclusive" Romulan DOffs and accessing SRO-laden BOffs) when they're first (and only)...
Cross Factions fleets would allow D'Tan's statement to ring even more true. If Feddies and Klinks wind up being closer because of it, well, it's another thing to thank the Republic for...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Still not seeing an actual response to "what are you afraid of?" Why is it a bad thing to be able to fund a KDF fleet with Fed toons?
I waited a few years to be able to play a Romulan to begin with, I think I'm patient enough to wait for cross-faction armadas and cross-faction teaming.
I'd rather have those features eventually rather than never, if given the option. Not my ideal situation, but you have to take what you can get with Cryptic sometimes.
It's bad enough that Cryptic has made accessible, many of the things that made the KDF appealing (i.e. Plasmonic Leech consoles among other things) through lockboxes. But now, some people are proposing cross-faction Starbase access. Sorry, but enough is enough.
Yea, it is a matter of principle that people don't want others' hands in their cookie jar. I am one of those people. I also support the argument that since we are one big, happy KDF/Rom/Fed alliance, maybe we should at least have cross-faction teams instead of segregated STFs. But I also belive that there should still be some separation among the factions, if anything, for the simple fact that there needs to be diversity and an incentive to play characters of another faction. Breaking down barriers such as what is being proposed will, IMO, dilute that diversity to the point where all we have to choose from is Federation... and not everyone wants to play just on the Federation side of things.
But if this happens, what's the point of even rolling a KDF anymore? The Feds already have most of what made the KDF unique. It has to stop somewhere.
Join Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010
The factions will retain their uniqueness since we're not swapping ships or gear or anything else, just resources. In fact such a system could convince more people to play KDF since the extra support would have them on equal footing.
fleets build their starbase up, so that anyone coming to the KDF has readily available maxed out fleets.
I do not require access to the actual starbase facilities from the other faction. I think that would be dumb. I mean, I could see a point in visiting them or something like that for roleplay, but using the stores there to get cross-faction gear. Meh. Not needed.
If I currently make a new Fed Toon, I can have him join the Fed Fleet I am usually part of and have quick access to all kinds of Fed fleet gear. If I make a KDF toon, I can join the KDF FLeet I am usually part of and... have not acess to all kinds of KDF fleet gear, because the fleet's starbase is still a WIP. I imagine that a lot of people in a situation like this decide that a new KDF character is not very convenient. But that just excerbates the problem, because without KDF characters spending resources on the KDF fleet, it won't get better, but that means the chances of new KDF characters being created and played is low.
It would finally be breaking the cycle if existing Fed characters can dump their resources on a KDF fleet in the armada, advance the fleet's holding and make the experience on any KDF characters much more pleasant.
Exactly.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Remember that the Organians stated that the Klingons and Federation would become 'fast friends'. Some here could use a dose of that.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
"Let them eat static!"
CM
Funny how the Organians were completely wrong about that. It took barely fifty years after the Khitomer Accords were signed the first time around for the two sides to be on the brink of war again, a war only averted by the loss of an Enterprise to stop the Romulans taking advantage of the chaos. Barely 30 years later the Klingons go off half-cocked on a newly democratic Cardassia and expect the Federation to just accept their wild-TRIBBLE claims of changeling infiltration at face value, and throw a huge tantrum when the Federation Council tells them to knock it off. Same d*mn thing happens 40 years later with the Gorn, and while they were actually right about the infiltration that time, notice how it conveniently gave them exactly what they'd wanted for the preceding twenty or so years before they even knew the Undine were around: conquest of the Gorn.
Fast friends? Only really seeing it from the House of Mogh and the House of Martok, which not coincidentally are the only two houses that don't act like drunken thugs picking unnecessary fights for their personal "honor" all the time. I give the current alliance 30 years, tops, before those petaQpu' quvbe' start causing trouble again. Maybe by that time we'll have a Federation that has the guts to put them out of their misery already.
But cross-faction armadas have nothing to do with all of that, and at the rate Cryptic advances its in-game calendar I doubt STO's still going to be around at that point (not in its current form anyway). Fleets are purely for player benefit and don't have anything to do with the game story. If "Fleet Alert" required you to be teamed only with fleeties, that'd be a counterargument, but it doesn't.
Yes DO grant a bonus of some sort if one of the top rank characters is RRF.
The Republic does hold a leading role in the delta quadrant/dyson areas, and that could be recognized but it should NOT become a major restriction concerning armadas.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
I don't expect FED Captains to have access to the stores of KDF-specific offerings. Nor do I expect KDF Captains to have access to FED-specific store offerings. AFAIK, this is what prevents treating the starbases as social maps at the bare minimum. Which, IMO, has always been a problem for the game.
What I do expect is for Captains to be free to contribute toward Fleet projects regardless of the fleet faction. Which is, as I understood it, the primary point of the Armada system.