Would be nice. Many fed fleets have a kdf step child to park their toons in, most of them are barren and half dead since it really is just "a thing" that's there. But such fleets would benefit greatly from the cross faction armada and maybe would make the the kdf toons as a whole more attractive since they'd gain some serious support in terms of holding advancement and gear availability.
While I can see that people might hate it for the sake of diversity but let's be honest, faction diversity was killed when they put the first leech in the box. Ever since, it started to matter less with every update. Shared FEs, carbon copy ships, the whole endgame in general, etc.
Srsly there's only a handful things left and those won't be ruined by just the fleet alliances. Boff traits, ships traits ('till the box drops), antimatter vs. singularity core, rom battlecloak and that's were the list ends and that won't change just because we can shop in a red & blue fleet store.
They have mentioned that it's not possible at the monent bacause of technical issues but want to look into it.
Keeping my fingers crossed that it was more than just the usual fancy talk.
It's not mandatory. So why not? If it helps small fleets group their various arms together then it should be implemented. The stubborn targs who don't like it can stay in their own KDF armadas. Same with the purist Fed fleets.
Still not seeing an actual response to "what are you afraid of?" Why is it a bad thing to be able to fund a KDF fleet with Fed toons?
ive explained it numerous times over multiple threads; kdf starbases are for kdf fleets and kdf players. allowing feds to nationbuild kdf-side from their fed toon is so far down the slippery slope there is no going back.
no. i strongly believe that you dont deserve to level a starbase in a faction you dont even play.
want a t5 kdf starbase? log in and play kdf. its that simple.
Levelling a KDF Starbase is not something for people that don't play KDF in the first place. If I didn't play KDF, I would not care one bit what happens with KDF starbases.
People that want to level a KDF starbase are per se KDF players.
if youre playing kdf so much, why do you need to donate to your kdf fleet from a fed toon?
thats what i thought.
Still not seeing an actual response to "what are you afraid of?" Why is it a bad thing to be able to fund a KDF fleet with Fed toons?
ive explained it numerous times over multiple threads; kdf starbases are for kdf fleets and kdf players. allowing feds to nationbuild kdf-side from their fed toon is so far down the slippery slope there is no going back.
no. i strongly believe that you dont deserve to level a starbase in a faction you dont even play.
want a t5 kdf starbase? log in and play kdf. its that simple.
Levelling a KDF Starbase is not something for people that don't play KDF in the first place. If I didn't play KDF, I would not care one bit what happens with KDF starbases.
People that want to level a KDF starbase are per se KDF players.
if youre playing kdf so much, why do you need to donate to your kdf fleet from a fed toon?
thats what i thought.
I play all 3 factions, and I am completely unwilling to devote all my time to a particular faction. In fact, i am even unwiling to devote it to a single character on any given day.
I am part of two fleets, one KDF, and one FED. The Fed fleet is maxed out, the KDF fleet isn't. Any resources I make on that account would be spend on the KDF fleet, but I can't, because there is a faction barrier. Would be neat if that were to go away.
Of course, knowing that my KDF fleet is behind and I won't have access to certain fleet holding perks, every time I create a new character I have to think whether I go lazy and just pick the convenient option of making it a Fed character. Particularly a thing for my Romulan characters. I figure a lot of people face the same question, and the result is what we already have - considerably more people choose Fed over KDF.
But hey, maybe you like the KDF faction to see as the worse option for most players, to keep in your little Elite Faction.
But then don't complain if Cryptic doesn't want to make a KDF Science Vessel or other KDF-focused content. Don't argue with "If they just would build, they'd come", because you don't even want to allow players ways to "build" so they can come.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Still not seeing an actual response to "what are you afraid of?" Why is it a bad thing to be able to fund a KDF fleet with Fed toons?
ive explained it numerous times over multiple threads; kdf starbases are for kdf fleets and kdf players. allowing feds to nationbuild kdf-side from their fed toon is so far down the slippery slope there is no going back.
no. i strongly believe that you dont deserve to level a starbase in a faction you dont even play.
want a t5 kdf starbase? log in and play kdf. its that simple.
Levelling a KDF Starbase is not something for people that don't play KDF in the first place. If I didn't play KDF, I would not care one bit what happens with KDF starbases.
People that want to level a KDF starbase are per se KDF players.
if youre playing kdf so much, why do you need to donate to your kdf fleet from a fed toon?
thats what i thought.
I play all 3 factions, and I am completely unwilling to devote all my time to a particular faction. In fact, i am even unwiling to devote it to a single character on any given day.
I am part of two fleets, one KDF, and one FED. The Fed fleet is maxed out, the KDF fleet isn't. Any resources I make on that account would be spend on the KDF fleet, but I can't, because there is a faction barrier. Would be neat if that were to go away.
Of course, knowing that my KDF fleet is behind and I won't have access to certain fleet holding perks, every time I create a new character I have to think whether I go lazy and just pick the convenient option of making it a Fed character. Particularly a thing for my Romulan characters. I figure a lot of people face the same question, and the result is what we already have - considerably more people choose Fed over KDF.
But hey, maybe you like the KDF faction to see as the worse option for most players, to keep in your little Elite Faction.
But then don't complain if Cryptic doesn't want to make a KDF Science Vessel or other KDF-focused content. Don't argue with "If they just would build, they'd come", because you don't even want to allow players ways to "build" so they can come.
lack of access to kdf holdings is not a good excuse. we have been giving away access for years. even the ever prevalent NoP public service was born kdf-side as NoP is a kdf fleet. saying you have no access is fooling nobody.
there are already t5 kdf fleets, and the reason so many people are still playing fed is because... theyd rather play fed. donating a kdf starbase to feds isnt going to make them any more likely to drag out their contraband alt and level rep, r&d, specpoints, commendations, upgrade all their gear, and so on. i doubt anyone kdf-side believes this is an altruistic effort on the part of feds to help the kdf lol
youre spending the majority of your time fed-side and have heaps of marks and whatnot fed-side, so hey. donate them to a small fed fleet that needs the help. the kdf is capable of taking care of our own. feds have taken too much already, and i dont think i can stomach seeing them rewarded with kdf starbases for all the time they spend playing as a fed.
lack of access to kdf holdings is not a good excuse. we have been giving away access for years. even the ever prevalent NoP public service was born kdf-side as NoP is a kdf fleet. saying you have no access is fooling nobody.
there are already t5 kdf fleets, and the reason so many people are still playing fed is because... theyd rather play fed. donating a kdf starbase to feds isnt going to make them any more likely to drag out their contraband alt and level rep, r&d, specpoints, commendations, upgrade all their gear, and so on. i doubt anyone kdf-side believes this is an altruistic effort on the part of feds to help the kdf lol
youre spending the majority of your time fed-side and have heaps of marks and whatnot fed-side, so hey. donate them to a small fed fleet that needs the help. the kdf is capable of taking care of our own. feds have taken too much already, and i dont think i can stomach seeing them rewarded with kdf starbases for all the time they spend playing as a fed.
Dude, stop. At this point you're either not even bothering to listen or you plainly do not care. Neither bodes well for your pretensions of altruism.
Dude, stop. At this point you're either not even bothering to listen or you plainly do not care. Neither bodes well for your pretensions of altruism.
im listening, and this is what i am hearing:
'i play kdf HEAPS, but in order for my kdf fleet to level up i need to do my donating from my fed'
'im romulan, and that means i need to donate to our kdf fleet as a fed'
'i am the highest ranked admiral in the fleet STARFLEET MACO ELITE FORCE BATTLEGROUP SIGMA, and we really need this so we can level our kdf dil-farming mule fleet to t5'
'even though the access channel founded kdf-side has 11,000 members and gives away kdf shipyard/holdings access, my kdf that i love and play so much doesnt have access so i need to use my rarely played fed to do all the donating from fedside and stuff'
if you need to do your grinding fed-side to advance your kdf starbase, you arent a kdf fleet. kdf starbases are for kdf fleets...
if you need to do your grinding fed-side to advance your kdf fleet, you arent a kdf fleet. kdf starbases are for kdf fleets...
... and have been donated to with fed earned Doffs and Dil for years so where is your problem?
fed earned dil hey
i think ive made it pretty clear what my problem with this proposal is. fed greed knows no bounds. youre actually wanting to tier up kdf fleets from fed-side. thats my problem.
Dude, stop. At this point you're either not even bothering to listen or you plainly do not care. Neither bodes well for your pretensions of altruism.
im listening, and this is what i am hearing:
'i play kdf HEAPS, but in order for my kdf fleet to level up i need to do my donating from my fed'
'im romulan, and that means i need to donate to our kdf fleet as a fed'
'i am the highest ranked admiral in the fleet STARFLEET MACO ELITE FORCE BATTLEGROUP SIGMA, and we really need this so we can level our kdf dil-farming mule fleet to t5'
'even though the access channel founded kdf-side has 11,000 members and gives away kdf shipyard/holdings access, my kdf that i love and play so much doesnt have access so i need to use my rarely played fed to do all the donating from fedside and stuff'
if you need to do your grinding fed-side to advance your kdf fleet, you arent a kdf fleet. kdf starbases are for kdf fleets...
Tal'Diann is a KDF-allied Romulan Republic fleet. Tal-Diann is a Fed-allied Romulan Republic fleet. Tal'Diann is, as I have already stated, SEVEN LEVELS HIGHER than Tal-Diann. Wanna try that listening thing again?
And I still find your "Free T5 Starbase Access for All" to be more likely to stifle the leveling of other KDF-side fleets than encourage it. As I pointed out previously, the amount of fleet credits it takes to buy anything is not comparable to the amount of fleet credits which are earned in the process of leveling a fleet. You are also surely aware that NoP has a reputation that discourages some from wanting to make use of their facilities, whether that reputation be earned or not.
lack of access to kdf holdings is not a good excuse. we have been giving away access for years. even the ever prevalent NoP public service was born kdf-side as NoP is a kdf fleet. [/quote]
I think something like NoP is awesome and a sign of good community building. But it's not a solution that I wil pick for myself. I want the ability to go to my own fleet, not require someone else's invite to their fleet.
And do you make identify checks to verify that no known Fed-Primaries request your service?
quote]
youre spending the majority of your time fed-side and have heaps of marks and whatnot fed-side, so hey. donate them to a small fed fleet that needs the help.
[/QUOTE]
Well, actually I hope that rich Feddies just dump a lot of resources on "my" KDF fleet, because I don't have much in way of fleet marks, but the ones I got, I definitely would prefer to see used on my* KDF fleet, than some other fleet.
*) my is such a strong word. It's just the fleet I am member of, I don't own it.
the kdf is capable of taking care of our own.
Small Fleets regardless of faction don't have it that easy.
And are you not bsically arguing out of pride here? But you expect that everyone will just accept a fleet like NoP providing charity?
With the Armada system, we have a clear mechanic on how to share among fleets. People that lack resources to build their Fleet Holdings can recieve them from players that lack ways to earn Fleet Credits.
feds have taken too much already, and i dont think i can stomach seeing them rewarded with kdf starbases for all the time they spend playing as a fed.
This topic is still not about giving Feds access to KDF Starbases. It's about people to be able to build Armadas across factions. I don't need, require or want access to KDF starbases, and my Yes to Cross-Faction Armada is not linked to cross-faction starbase access, and in fact, I'd argue against it.
Cross-Faction Armadas does not have to mean cross-faction Starbase and Starbase Store access.
In the original Armada thread borticus asked whether it would be fair if people would not have access to the other faction's starbase but still would be left pumping resources into them, and my answer to that is: Yes, that's totally fine.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Tal'Diann is a KDF-allied Romulan Republic fleet. Tal-Diann is a Fed-allied Romulan Republic fleet. Tal'Diann is, as I have already stated, SEVEN LEVELS HIGHER than Tal-Diann. Wanna try that listening thing again?
what is the significance of that? your org obviously prefers to play fed-side, and your starbase development reflects that... as it should.
beautiful had an even greater disparity. we had finished our second t5 kdf fleet before the fed fleet was even t4. did we take to the forum and rally for some sort of mechanic to balance our fleets for us? no, we accepted the fact that we were primarily kdf, bit the bullet, logged in fed, and did what we needed to do to advance the fleet. why do you deserve special consideration?
Tal'Diann is a KDF-allied Romulan Republic fleet. Tal-Diann is a Fed-allied Romulan Republic fleet. Tal'Diann is, as I have already stated, SEVEN LEVELS HIGHER than Tal-Diann. Wanna try that listening thing again?
what is the significance of that? your org obviously prefers to play fed-side, and your starbase development reflects that... as it should.
beautiful had an even greater disparity. we had finished our second t5 kdf fleet before the fed fleet was even t4. did we take to the forum and rally for some sort of mechanic to balance our fleets for us? no, we accepted the fact that we were primarily kdf, bit the bullet, logged in fed, and did what we needed to do to advance the fleet. why do you deserve special consideration?
You're not listening. Our KDF-allied RRF fleet is 7 levels higher than our Fed-allied RRF fleet. Obviously, we've been playing quite a lot on KDF-side. We also had an Academy fleet allied with the KDF before we made our Fed-allied fleet (the Academy is still in existence and about the same level as the Fed-allied fleet). We made our KDF-allied fleets first, and our main KDF-allied fleet is the higher level one of the bunch.
Nobody is asking for special consideration (and even if you did walk 50 miles in the snow with no shoes uphill both ways going to/coming from school, progress does not require everyone else to do likewise). We have a new mechanic coming down the pipeline, and my aim is, as it has been since LoR came out, to promote more equity for the RRF, hence I'm asking for this. Because, ultimately, we are not KDF or Fed. We're RRF. And we're tired of being treated as third-class citizens.
You still haven't addressed the point I've made twice now, about how little it costs to buy stuff from fleet stores vs how much it costs to level a fleet, nor why anyone with free access to a maxed-out fleet would bother to level their own fleet. "Oh, go look at thread and see testimonies." You ask me to trust anecdotal evidence? Seriously? This is not a court of law, where witness testimony counts for something. I'm asking for logic, not anecdotes.
If they can figure out how to do it on the tech side, then I really don't see why not. At endgame, we're all allied anyway. I think the best way to resolve the FED/KDF issue would be to allow map sharing on all Fleet Holdings with the exception of the Starbases. We're pretty much a joint force in all of those Holding locations anyway. All of the goodies in those locations are also pretty generic/not Faction specific. Keep the Starbases proper as Faction exclusive, even as far as donations are concerned, if you like, but make the rest cross-faction.
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As far as I'm concerned, more options are better. Desegregate the factions. If someone wants to integrate only with their own faction, the system would accommodate that choice. If someone wants to integrate for RP reasons, sure, do so. If someone wants mingle freely with any faction, who's to say they're wrong? At this point most of this thread is just claims that everyone else's reasons for wanting integration or segregation aren't good enough.
At this point most of this thread is just claims that everyone else's reasons for wanting integration or segregation aren't good enough.
That's how it already was in another thread when I started this thread to let the people express their opinions by means of a poll, rather than domination of that thread by the hysterical paranoia of the leader of a certain fleet who feels his fleet's elite status is somehow threatened by the idea of integration, and cloaks it in "nationalistic" language. And for the record, I'm fine with Yes, either way (everybody or RRF only, since "everybody" would include "RRF"), but since some in the other thread seemed to support the idea only for RRF, and since my own interest in the whole thing anyway is for the RRF, I added that option and voted that way myself.
The dev's have said that this feature won't be in the Armada system when it is first introduced. Though it's not out of the question for some time in the future. Time will tell.
I am not speaking for them, just relaying other comments I have seen from the Dev's.
The dev's have said that this feature won't be in the Armada system when it is first introduced. Though it's not out of the question for some time in the future. Time will tell.
I am not speaking for them, just relaying other comments I have seen from the Dev's.
Yes, that's a comment included in the original news article. It's also not the question. The question is "Would you like for it to be faction-restricted, limited cross-faction, or cross-faction?"
Definitely yes, we are all brothers and sisters in war against Iconians after all. If you are saving costs on coding faction differences in storyline then do it the end, allow us to create cross-faction armadas! (And finish completely romulan faction while you are at it)
Im not gonna bother back reading all of tehbubbaloo's hysterics... basically what I get is he/she/it is spazoid over feds/fed-roms being allowed on his klinky base right?
So... at what point did allowing people to contribute to fleet projects across both factions become 'beam over to my starbase'??? Or did I miss a feature of the armada system? I admit I didn't pour over it line by line drooling like some have. It was more an 'ok that sounds cool' skimming
Im not gonna bother back reading all of tehbubbaloo's hysterics... basically what I get is he/she/it is spazoid over feds/fed-roms being allowed on his klinky base right?
So... at what point did allowing people to contribute to fleet projects across both factions become 'beam over to my starbase'??? Or did I miss a feature of the armada system? I admit I didn't pour over it line by line drooling like some have. It was more an 'ok that sounds cool' skimming
if you think cross-faction base invites are are what i have been posting about, its pretty obvious that even saying you 'skimmed' would be generous.
You're not listening. Our KDF-allied RRF fleet is 7 levels higher than our Fed-allied RRF fleet. Obviously, we've been playing quite a lot on KDF-side. We also had an Academy fleet allied with the KDF before we made our Fed-allied fleet (the Academy is still in existence and about the same level as the Fed-allied fleet). We made our KDF-allied fleets first, and our main KDF-allied fleet is the higher level one of the bunch.
oh. well why did you give each fleet a nearly identical name?
this doesnt change my opinion though.
Nobody is asking for special consideration (and even if you did walk 50 miles in the snow with no shoes uphill both ways going to/coming from school, progress does not require everyone else to do likewise). We have a new mechanic coming down the pipeline, and my aim is, as it has been since LoR came out, to promote more equity for the RRF, hence I'm asking for this. Because, ultimately, we are not KDF or Fed. We're RRF. And we're tired of being treated as third-class citizens.
if a fleet is primarily focused in faction B, then their starbase progression should reflect that. i dont see why anyone should be afforded the ability to facilitate cross-faction donations based on their toons race... just do like the rest of us and accept that one starbase will always finish before the other.
the worst thing that can come out of cross-faction armadas is a scenario that sees scores of new t5 kdf starbases built by feds and populated by their doffing alts. the player that chooses kdf thus enters into a world where all kdf fleets look active and are advertised as active, yet are virtual ghost towns. as it stands today, if a player sees a t4 or t5 kdf kdf fleet, he can be assured he is getting whats advertised on the tin.
cross-faction donations may be great for a fed fleet. the get fleet credit sources and the opportunity to brag about having a t5 kdf starbase... but its so bad for the kdf faction.
You still haven't addressed the point I've made twice now, about how little it costs to buy stuff from fleet stores vs how much it costs to level a fleet, nor why anyone with free access to a maxed-out fleet would bother to level their own fleet. "Oh, go look at thread and see testimonies." You ask me to trust anecdotal evidence? Seriously? This is not a court of law, where witness testimony counts for something. I'm asking for logic, not anecdotes.
the logic of the argument has been posted numerous times, and lacking access to cryptics metrics, anecdotal evidence is all anyone can provide. but lets look at just a couple of facts, and then extrapolate from there:
1. members need fleet credit to spend at higher holdings
2. members need provisions to spend at higher holdings
3. credits and provisions are generated at their own fleet.
members will actually work harder to generate credit and provisions if they know they have something to spend it on. this has made itself clear for two years of base-inviting. if there was no system to allow members of lower-tiered fleets to gain holding access, i have no doubt members would leave those fleets in droves looking for higher tiered holdings. ive seen it happen before.
youre also downplaying the amount of credit needed to fully kit out a toon. dont look merely at ship consoles and the like. also look at the credit costs associated with less obvious purchases like doffs, active doff roster spots, uniforms, active doff project slots, etc.
then lets look at some 'anecdotal' testimonials from the small fleets themselves:
At first, I thought as other non-T5 fleet leaders do.. I hope my members dont learn about this... it will only extend our march to T5 (Currently T4, and halfway to T5). Then, on the KDF side (T2)... I saw some fleet members leave... because they needed/wanted better equipment. I broke my silence, and told these members that they could go to NOPPS... and get their equipment with out leaving ... they were ecstatic... actually increased their donations because they needed more Fleet Credit, did their shopping... and were happy they didn't need to leave the fleet. Key point... Donations went UP. So, we have shifted the focus of the KDF fleet on military track, and provisioning for science and engineering. Projects are getting filled faster, because they no longer look at it as a waste of time, or that their goal is so far away that it is not worth the grind. (I.e. really, a small fleet grinding out to T5 Eng (Elite Weapons) is a LOOOOOOONNNNNNGGGGG and expensive way to go for the little extra umph provided by the elite weapons (and would cost the individual player much more than the large fleet member).
My opinion has changed... not only do I promote the NOPPS channel... I help out where I can (T3 Mine and T3 embassy)... pay it forward if you will. I shifted the development of my base(s) to match this new reality... I can focus on one track, and provision for the fleet needs... yes... they need to "travel" to another base to get the advanced equipment.. but they get it, and return...
To the fleets involved in this venture... thank you... thank you for removing the disadvantage being placed on small fleets. If anything, you have breathed new life into them.
As a part owner and an admin to the DPS channel community. I think I can speak for many of the official DPS channel team when I say we fully support NoP Public Service. I, myself also offer tuffli/celll ship access as much as I can to help out. I urge many to do the same. Keep this channel alive. It keeps many of us geared to the nines for DPS and PVP
This channel is one of the last of the redeeming qualities of STO. Genuine, helpful and good natured players helping one another. if people like this ran STO, we would have a much more player-friendly game.
Anyways, Happy Holidays to all those great people who help out on NoP!!! You all give a lot of assistance to many people and its very much appreciated.
A starbase means nothing, the gear you have yeah, but if you are close with your fleetmates it makes it all worth the while and keeping the small fleets together.
Thanks again to those that created this channel.
anyway, this thread is supposedly about cross-faction armadas, not NoP Public Service hey
I get the impression that player fleets rather push segregation of the general playerbase. Some of you take stuff way too seriously.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
If so, combination of resources wouldn't be the issue it is right now.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
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While I can see that people might hate it for the sake of diversity but let's be honest, faction diversity was killed when they put the first leech in the box. Ever since, it started to matter less with every update. Shared FEs, carbon copy ships, the whole endgame in general, etc.
Srsly there's only a handful things left and those won't be ruined by just the fleet alliances. Boff traits, ships traits ('till the box drops), antimatter vs. singularity core, rom battlecloak and that's were the list ends and that won't change just because we can shop in a red & blue fleet store.
They have mentioned that it's not possible at the monent bacause of technical issues but want to look into it.
Keeping my fingers crossed that it was more than just the usual fancy talk.
if youre playing kdf so much, why do you need to donate to your kdf fleet from a fed toon?
thats what i thought.
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I am part of two fleets, one KDF, and one FED. The Fed fleet is maxed out, the KDF fleet isn't. Any resources I make on that account would be spend on the KDF fleet, but I can't, because there is a faction barrier. Would be neat if that were to go away.
Of course, knowing that my KDF fleet is behind and I won't have access to certain fleet holding perks, every time I create a new character I have to think whether I go lazy and just pick the convenient option of making it a Fed character. Particularly a thing for my Romulan characters. I figure a lot of people face the same question, and the result is what we already have - considerably more people choose Fed over KDF.
But hey, maybe you like the KDF faction to see as the worse option for most players, to keep in your little Elite Faction.
But then don't complain if Cryptic doesn't want to make a KDF Science Vessel or other KDF-focused content. Don't argue with "If they just would build, they'd come", because you don't even want to allow players ways to "build" so they can come.
lack of access to kdf holdings is not a good excuse. we have been giving away access for years. even the ever prevalent NoP public service was born kdf-side as NoP is a kdf fleet. saying you have no access is fooling nobody.
there are already t5 kdf fleets, and the reason so many people are still playing fed is because... theyd rather play fed. donating a kdf starbase to feds isnt going to make them any more likely to drag out their contraband alt and level rep, r&d, specpoints, commendations, upgrade all their gear, and so on. i doubt anyone kdf-side believes this is an altruistic effort on the part of feds to help the kdf lol
youre spending the majority of your time fed-side and have heaps of marks and whatnot fed-side, so hey. donate them to a small fed fleet that needs the help. the kdf is capable of taking care of our own. feds have taken too much already, and i dont think i can stomach seeing them rewarded with kdf starbases for all the time they spend playing as a fed.
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Dude, stop. At this point you're either not even bothering to listen or you plainly do not care. Neither bodes well for your pretensions of altruism.
'i play kdf HEAPS, but in order for my kdf fleet to level up i need to do my donating from my fed'
'im romulan, and that means i need to donate to our kdf fleet as a fed'
'i am the highest ranked admiral in the fleet STARFLEET MACO ELITE FORCE BATTLEGROUP SIGMA, and we really need this so we can level our kdf dil-farming mule fleet to t5'
'even though the access channel founded kdf-side has 11,000 members and gives away kdf shipyard/holdings access, my kdf that i love and play so much doesnt have access so i need to use my rarely played fed to do all the donating from fedside and stuff'
if you need to do your grinding fed-side to advance your kdf starbase, you arent a kdf fleet. kdf starbases are for kdf fleets...
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... and have been donated to with fed earned Doffs and Dil for years so where is your problem?
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i think ive made it pretty clear what my problem with this proposal is. fed greed knows no bounds. youre actually wanting to tier up kdf fleets from fed-side. thats my problem.
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Tal'Diann is a KDF-allied Romulan Republic fleet. Tal-Diann is a Fed-allied Romulan Republic fleet. Tal'Diann is, as I have already stated, SEVEN LEVELS HIGHER than Tal-Diann. Wanna try that listening thing again?
And I still find your "Free T5 Starbase Access for All" to be more likely to stifle the leveling of other KDF-side fleets than encourage it. As I pointed out previously, the amount of fleet credits it takes to buy anything is not comparable to the amount of fleet credits which are earned in the process of leveling a fleet. You are also surely aware that NoP has a reputation that discourages some from wanting to make use of their facilities, whether that reputation be earned or not.
lack of access to kdf holdings is not a good excuse. we have been giving away access for years. even the ever prevalent NoP public service was born kdf-side as NoP is a kdf fleet. [/quote]
I think something like NoP is awesome and a sign of good community building. But it's not a solution that I wil pick for myself. I want the ability to go to my own fleet, not require someone else's invite to their fleet.
And do you make identify checks to verify that no known Fed-Primaries request your service?
quote]
youre spending the majority of your time fed-side and have heaps of marks and whatnot fed-side, so hey. donate them to a small fed fleet that needs the help.
[/QUOTE]
Well, actually I hope that rich Feddies just dump a lot of resources on "my" KDF fleet, because I don't have much in way of fleet marks, but the ones I got, I definitely would prefer to see used on my* KDF fleet, than some other fleet.
*) my is such a strong word. It's just the fleet I am member of, I don't own it.
Small Fleets regardless of faction don't have it that easy.
And are you not bsically arguing out of pride here? But you expect that everyone will just accept a fleet like NoP providing charity?
With the Armada system, we have a clear mechanic on how to share among fleets. People that lack resources to build their Fleet Holdings can recieve them from players that lack ways to earn Fleet Credits.
This topic is still not about giving Feds access to KDF Starbases. It's about people to be able to build Armadas across factions. I don't need, require or want access to KDF starbases, and my Yes to Cross-Faction Armada is not linked to cross-faction starbase access, and in fact, I'd argue against it.
Cross-Faction Armadas does not have to mean cross-faction Starbase and Starbase Store access.
In the original Armada thread borticus asked whether it would be fair if people would not have access to the other faction's starbase but still would be left pumping resources into them, and my answer to that is: Yes, that's totally fine.
beautiful had an even greater disparity. we had finished our second t5 kdf fleet before the fed fleet was even t4. did we take to the forum and rally for some sort of mechanic to balance our fleets for us? no, we accepted the fact that we were primarily kdf, bit the bullet, logged in fed, and did what we needed to do to advance the fleet. why do you deserve special consideration?
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You're not listening. Our KDF-allied RRF fleet is 7 levels higher than our Fed-allied RRF fleet. Obviously, we've been playing quite a lot on KDF-side. We also had an Academy fleet allied with the KDF before we made our Fed-allied fleet (the Academy is still in existence and about the same level as the Fed-allied fleet). We made our KDF-allied fleets first, and our main KDF-allied fleet is the higher level one of the bunch.
Nobody is asking for special consideration (and even if you did walk 50 miles in the snow with no shoes uphill both ways going to/coming from school, progress does not require everyone else to do likewise). We have a new mechanic coming down the pipeline, and my aim is, as it has been since LoR came out, to promote more equity for the RRF, hence I'm asking for this. Because, ultimately, we are not KDF or Fed. We're RRF. And we're tired of being treated as third-class citizens.
You still haven't addressed the point I've made twice now, about how little it costs to buy stuff from fleet stores vs how much it costs to level a fleet, nor why anyone with free access to a maxed-out fleet would bother to level their own fleet. "Oh, go look at thread and see testimonies." You ask me to trust anecdotal evidence? Seriously? This is not a court of law, where witness testimony counts for something. I'm asking for logic, not anecdotes.
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As far as I'm concerned, more options are better. Desegregate the factions. If someone wants to integrate only with their own faction, the system would accommodate that choice. If someone wants to integrate for RP reasons, sure, do so. If someone wants mingle freely with any faction, who's to say they're wrong? At this point most of this thread is just claims that everyone else's reasons for wanting integration or segregation aren't good enough.
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That's how it already was in another thread when I started this thread to let the people express their opinions by means of a poll, rather than domination of that thread by the hysterical paranoia of the leader of a certain fleet who feels his fleet's elite status is somehow threatened by the idea of integration, and cloaks it in "nationalistic" language. And for the record, I'm fine with Yes, either way (everybody or RRF only, since "everybody" would include "RRF"), but since some in the other thread seemed to support the idea only for RRF, and since my own interest in the whole thing anyway is for the RRF, I added that option and voted that way myself.
I am not speaking for them, just relaying other comments I have seen from the Dev's.
Yes, that's a comment included in the original news article. It's also not the question. The question is "Would you like for it to be faction-restricted, limited cross-faction, or cross-faction?"
So... at what point did allowing people to contribute to fleet projects across both factions become 'beam over to my starbase'??? Or did I miss a feature of the armada system? I admit I didn't pour over it line by line drooling like some have. It was more an 'ok that sounds cool' skimming
It never did, except in the imaginings (or rhetoric) of some few.
oh. well why did you give each fleet a nearly identical name?
this doesnt change my opinion though.
if a fleet is primarily focused in faction B, then their starbase progression should reflect that. i dont see why anyone should be afforded the ability to facilitate cross-faction donations based on their toons race... just do like the rest of us and accept that one starbase will always finish before the other.
the worst thing that can come out of cross-faction armadas is a scenario that sees scores of new t5 kdf starbases built by feds and populated by their doffing alts. the player that chooses kdf thus enters into a world where all kdf fleets look active and are advertised as active, yet are virtual ghost towns. as it stands today, if a player sees a t4 or t5 kdf kdf fleet, he can be assured he is getting whats advertised on the tin.
cross-faction donations may be great for a fed fleet. the get fleet credit sources and the opportunity to brag about having a t5 kdf starbase... but its so bad for the kdf faction.
the logic of the argument has been posted numerous times, and lacking access to cryptics metrics, anecdotal evidence is all anyone can provide. but lets look at just a couple of facts, and then extrapolate from there:
1. members need fleet credit to spend at higher holdings
2. members need provisions to spend at higher holdings
3. credits and provisions are generated at their own fleet.
members will actually work harder to generate credit and provisions if they know they have something to spend it on. this has made itself clear for two years of base-inviting. if there was no system to allow members of lower-tiered fleets to gain holding access, i have no doubt members would leave those fleets in droves looking for higher tiered holdings. ive seen it happen before.
youre also downplaying the amount of credit needed to fully kit out a toon. dont look merely at ship consoles and the like. also look at the credit costs associated with less obvious purchases like doffs, active doff roster spots, uniforms, active doff project slots, etc.
then lets look at some 'anecdotal' testimonials from the small fleets themselves:
anyway, this thread is supposedly about cross-faction armadas, not NoP Public Service hey
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