I see LGBT fleet members all over the place in this game and I know there are hetero women who play. And, not all LGBT players are in LGBT fleets.
Some like to assume that the only demographic is youngish hetero guys. It's not. And, it's a self-fulfilling thing to make a product that appeals to a certain demographic and then claim that there's no reason to broaden it because it wouldn't be popular with the shortchanged demographic.
And, as far as development cost goes... Look at how much better the rear of the regular EV suits look on guys than most uniforms do. It's not like it's terribly difficult and requires a new engine to make some improvements.
And I agree with you. I am not part of LGBT minority myself, as I discard genders (mainly the societal baggage around them) in general, and I feel that appealing to much broader spectrum of people would be a nice thing to do. Hopefully, we've made our point here...
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
I don't know, I am the opposite. I embrace gender. (not gender stereotypes, however)
But, from the way you people talk, as far as making characters, you should really play the Sims, LOL. Could spend half a day+ just making a character, fine-tuning how he or she looks.
And honestly, I wish this game would take a page or three, from Sims3, on what you can accomplish with character models, hair, and clothing.
As far as adding stuff, for more variety, heck, if it's well done (or at least reasonably well done), that's never a bad thing.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
I don't know, I am the opposite. I embrace gender. (not gender stereotypes, however)
But, from the way you people talk, as far as making characters, you should really play the Sims, LOL. Could spend half a day+ just making a character, fine-tuning how he or she looks.
And honestly, I wish this game would take a page or three, from Sims3, on what you can accomplish with character models, hair, and clothing.
As far as adding stuff, for more variety, heck, if it's well done (or at least reasonably well done), that's never a bad thing.
Well, if the character creator was done well, with variety for males and females alike, you'd not need topics like that. And, fine-tuning a character does not even take that long, if you have an idea what you want it to look like. And, some people simply see that in a RPG game, you should have variety... there's nothing wrong about that.
PS: Sims suck, I prefer more.. action paced games, let alone playing a game simulating real life, no matter how silly, that's just... zzzZZzzz fest. :P
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
Well, if the character creator was done well, with variety for males and females alike, you'd not need topics like that. And, fine-tuning a character does not even take that long, if you have an idea what you want it to look like. And, some people simply see that in a RPG game, you should have variety... there's nothing wrong about that.
PS: Sims suck, I prefer more.. action paced games, let alone playing a game simulating real life, no matter how silly, that's just... zzzZZzzz fest. :P
Lol, well, I have fun with the Sims games. Something different every now & again.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
Men with curves exist outside of football body types and outside of football clothes. There are plenty of skinny young guys with them, and swimmers in particular. Ballet dancers are gigantic, and figure skaters also tend to be on the large side. Gymnasts are also curved all over.
It's not about "curves", it's about structure of the outfit and how it fits the shape of the body. I'm sure that many of the booties of the men in-game are quite gorgeous. But I feel that their pants just aren't designed to feature that.
It depends a great deal on the person. Many women are flat back there, especially Japanese. And, "normally" is not really the target. We're talking about body sliders that are supposed to encompass aliens, space travel -- lots of diversity.
Agreed, there are lots of different sizes and shapes of species possible in the Trekverse. Many not possible with the character creator, unfortunately. But the way the outfits hug the buttocks does not have anything to do with the person's shape.
That includes athletic men who have curves and slim men who have them. Some men are quite curvy, actually. This tends to be more common with swimmers and soccer players. As with TRIBBLE, youth keeps things more perky.
Irrelevant. This is about clothing. Unless I'm missing your point.
Are you serious? None of the uniforms are made for serious physical activity?
I didn't say that. But none are made in the manner that Football uniforms are. And I was specifically addressing the uniforms that weren't made for serious physical activity regardless.
Honestly, at least with Terran/Starfleet culture, I think this debate just boils down to what each of us thinks would actually hold importance to uniform design in the future. You seem to think that in the future, men would have clothing to accentuate male posteriors. I do not... and despite what some might think, I disagree not because I believe that somehow the future will be ruled by some sort of patriarchy, I just do not think that male asses will spark any arousal at all in women(TRIBBLE men is another story of course), as without erm... 'marital aids', women can not view a man's badonkadonk during sex. This is probably dependent on the species too though, depending on where the couple's genitals are located. Not to mention that I do not believe that the women of 2409 will care about an issue like this as much as they will issues with their own uniforms. But again, this boils down to what each of us thinks is appropriate in the STO continuity.
Of course, my point doesn't apply to alien cultures, but how do we display that in-game? Would we alter the design of certain clothes just for a few(possibly minor) species? Do we just implement tight clothing to the male butts of every species?
Don't get me wrong, I do not think there is anything wrong with having your proposal as an option. I'm just trying to discuss the rationality and implications of such an idea. I'm all for sexual equality as much as the next egalitarian. But just because something makes sense for one sex to have doesn't automatically make sense for the other sex to have. And above all, it comes down to the opinions of the society in question. Just as with morality, fashion is completely subjective.
And I agree with you. I am not part of LGBT minority myself, as I discard genders (mainly the societal baggage around them) in general, and I feel that appealing to much broader spectrum of people would be a nice thing to do. Hopefully, we've made our point here...
I think that if everyone was appealed to got their way, except of course for the people(*coughbigotscough*) who actually want people to not be appealed to, the world would indeed be a better place. Selflessness is a virtue, as is tolerance. You don't have to accept other people's viewpoints, but you should tolerate and respect them.
But, from the way you people talk, as far as making characters, you should really play the Sims, LOL. Could spend half a day+ just making a character, fine-tuning how he or she looks.
I agree with this topic, it's getting old already that in MMO's women are portrayed as sexy and curvy and males somewhat muscular but plain (specially in the back area)
In most MMO's bodies are somewhat fit, that's the norm, and a fit male body sure does have much more buttocks than MMO's insist in showing. Heck, I'm a regular slim/fit guy and even I have more backside than some of the supposedly muscular bodies in here or other MMO's.
I know that many people think this is not important, but for some it is. Forum wars have started because of the infamous boob slider in many MMO's. Why do straight males get all the eye candy? MMO's are catering to a wider audience every year and character customization has to reflect that, sooner or later. For example I love strong women characters, that don't use their sex appeal to get what they want, a strong woman with a huge weapon, or armor, and I love my men to be more on the sexy side, it's just a matter of opinion and tastes.
The movie industry is already changing and adapting to it, these days you see as much beefcake as cheesecake in movies (and maybe even more) because they've realized their target audience is NOT only straight males anymore. Videogames and MMO's are slowly beginning to realize this aswell. But it's a very slow process.
So as long as more peple start voicing their opinion on this, the sooner things will begin to show. Maybe not for this game, but for future ones, one can never know what cryptic is planning for the future.
Some of these things are really easy to do, like giving players the ability to customize the male Romulans who have superior operative via the tailor. Seeing Dracula every time I'm in sector space and a location comes up is not my cup of tea, nor is having to swap my bridge officer every time I go flying to find duty officer missions so I don't have to be accosted by such ugliness.
Of course, having the tailor actually work would also help. I can't get the outfit I've been wearing for two years to load now. All I can seem to get for the upper is some sort of fleece sweatshirt with seams or a generic vest.
I'd like to see more sliders in the tailor (in addition to waist, separate calves and thighs and upper and lower arms), as well as greater ranges on sliders... however I fear that they can't add those things without effing up existing costumes.
Lol. Point taken, hehe. Just figured, with so many people that are wanting more customizability, til it's put into this game (or any others you may happen to play), Sims, especially Sims 3 is a good way to go wild on creating characters, and getting to make them look nice.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
What a fantastic thread. Just makes me glad that my crew all use the 22nd century (NX) uniforms, which like their modern counterparts hide just about everything...
I agree with this topic, it's getting old already that in MMO's women are portrayed as sexy and curvy and males somewhat muscular but plain (specially in the back area)
In most MMO's bodies are somewhat fit, that's the norm, and a fit male body sure does have much more buttocks than MMO's insist in showing.
SWTOR has given men quite a bit of curvature, but I think it should be something that doesn't appear on all characters. I would have multiple body shapes for NPCs.
Heck, I'm a regular slim/fit guy and even I have more backside than some of the supposedly muscular bodies in here or other MMO's.
Many Australian lifeguards show as much or more as the female Orion outfits do, in terms of backside. They pull up their speedos sometimes and have quite ample curvature in many cases.
I know that many people think this is not important, but for some it is. Forum wars have started because of the infamous boob slider in many MMO's. Why do straight males get all the eye candy? MMO's are catering to a wider audience every year and character customization has to reflect that, sooner or later.
Considering how many TRIBBLE men play STO (a lot -- I've lost count of all the LGBT fleets) it's something that shouldn't be put on the back burner.
For example I love strong women characters, that don't use their sex appeal to get what they want, a strong woman with a huge weapon, or armor, and I love my men to be more on the sexy side, it's just a matter of opinion and tastes.
The movie industry is already changing and adapting to it, these days you see as much beefcake as cheesecake in movies (and maybe even more) because they've realized their target audience is NOT only straight males anymore. Videogames and MMO's are slowly beginning to realize this aswell. But it's a very slow process.
So as long as more peple start voicing their opinion on this, the sooner things will begin to show. Maybe not for this game, but for future ones, one can never know what cryptic is planning for the future.
Since you mentioned the film industry. Prior to the Hayes Code and the Lavender Scare, Hollywood liked to showcase male bodies with Tarzan films and such. Hollywood realized its audience was more diverse than gaming companies apparently do, back in the 1920s.
One fairly easy first fix would be to separate the waist slider from buttock curvature.
Its not an issue that bothers me all that much, But i find it slightly irritating that the chest slider for females is missing the lower end of the scale, whilst simultaniously goping a bit too far at the other extreme
Also in this area, Could it be possible for some more sliders to better customise the
lower legs ? so often i end up with character having tiny spindle like ankles and tiny feet that in realistic terms could barely support an adult huamnaoid
Its almost impossible to give atheletic Claves without ending up with massive upper legs that look like a chafing problem for the character in question , Same goes for arms which often have very thin forearms and wrists
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Its not an issue that bothers me all that much, But i find it slightly irritating that the chest slider for females is missing the lower end of the scale, whilst simultaniously goping a bit too far at the other extreme
I've made suggestions about female torso sliders improvements a while back.. the link is in my signature... as I too find the sliders a bit too irritating, when it comes to unability to change some things at all, where some things are unreasonably oversized with the sliders at minimum too... <.<
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
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where some things are unreasonably oversized with the sliders at minimum too... <.<
It is pretty much impossible to make a female character without prominent TRIBBLE. Even my Tellarite female BOFF has "sexy TRIBBLE" (like implants rather than the real thing in terms of shape) that stand out dramatically when compared with the rest of the body. It's rather jarring.
1. Smooth complexion for men -- no wrinkles, deep furrows, chin cleft, and stubble. redder less chapped lips.
2. Second mouth shape choice for men -- no frown and more lip shape definition (not a wedge shape).
3. Separation between hip and rear size -- new slider.
4. Lower back/rear curvature slider (mainly to fix Orion men with their wedge shape).
5. Body skin selection with different fat percentages (different levels of muscle definition). Very low body fat (the current default), low percentage, and medium.
6. Upper cheek/skull width slider.
7. eyebrow spacing slider.
8. The male dancer's outfit from Wasteland as an off-duty clothing option.
9. mouth/noise height slider range increase for humans and Romulans.
10. More attractive male Klingons (the females are much more human-looking).
11. Larger eye size slider range for Orion men, as well as rounder eye shape option.
12. Seductive stance for men option.
13. Slim body type for men.
14. Forehead size slider that elegantly expands the forehead without distorting the head shape.
15. More detail for shirtless men. My Orion man's arms are very blocky, very little detail, in some poses.
Notably, someone else said they completely agree with my suggestions.
Yeah, well, sadly, you can't make 'em in all shapes now... as I griped about for ages by now... we how just the crappy comics'ish looks now... but, hopefully, that will change, so everyone's happy and we have a happy ending
I don't want the devs to make it impossible to create hypersexualized women or freakishly legged males, but I do think the devs should allow us to adjust more things to create more interesting characters or aliens.
Some good body options that don't exist:
- Boob slider for males
- Waist slider (as someone said before, trying to make a woman with substance or a larger man is exceedingly difficult without a waist slider)
- Calf/Gleut sliders
- Torso Depth slider
- Bicep/Forearm slider
- Ribcage Slider
- Build Slider (Slender->Muscular->Fat)
- Ability to manipulate more of the facial features to avoid the Mary Jane and John Doe syndrome (where everyone looks the same) in both genders.
Some things that would be cool, but probably not viable:
- Ability to adjust the number of fingers and toes.
- Add more skin options (fur, scales, smooth, slimy, etc.) for aliens
- Add different types of heads so we can make aliens unique from simple humanoid shapes.
- Certainly the ability to have more than 2 legs and manipulate the attachment points. I can see why it isn't viable to make a species without arms that doesn't stand upright due to technology requiring a certain body type, but who's to say that an arachnid species didn't just keep their 8 legs while converting 2 of them to arms?
It is pretty much impossible to make a female character without prominent TRIBBLE. Even my Tellarite female BOFF has "sexy TRIBBLE" (like implants rather than the real thing in terms of shape) that stand out dramatically when compared with the rest of the body. It's rather jarring.
I mean no disrespect, but surely the engine allows you to do better than that? I've been able to successfully make the visage of Colonel O'Neil from Stargate Sg-1 in the engine, and it looked somewhat believable.
The devs were able to make very good approximations of Tuvok and Worf, so who is to say we can't do at least as well as they have?
It is pretty much impossible to make a female character without prominent TRIBBLE. Even my Tellarite female BOFF has "sexy TRIBBLE" (like implants rather than the real thing in terms of shape) that stand out dramatically when compared with the rest of the body. It's rather jarring.
I am sadly painfully aware of that and I wish this was addressed, along with adding proper waist slider to balance things out...
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
I mean no disrespect, but surely the engine allows you to do better than that?
No. Please try it yourself and post the results if you don't believe me. I spent hours and consulted quite a few photos.
I would really like to see what you can do. I am not being sarcastic or anything. I would like to see you post that I was right after trying it yourself so the editor can be made more flexible. More evidence is always helpful.
The devs were able to make very good approximations of Tuvok and Worf, so who is to say we can't do at least as well as they have?
The devs can make custom complexions, as they did for the Cooper character. They most likely have fewer restrictions on modeling (unlike the sliders we get).
Plus, the existing hairstyles and eyebrow shapes can work for recreating some people better than others. Sheldon's eyebrows are very far apart in comparison with what is available in the editor. He also has "jack-o-lantern" shaped eyebrows. Most of the male eyebrows are angry, pointing down toward the top of the nose and arching upward. Just eyebrow shape makes a big impact on the way a face looks.
Sheldon's mouth is more close to the female lips. The male editor's lips are a frown that goes downward and there is little definition between the four parts of the lips. The male lips are more like a lemon wedge or half moon. The frown and lip shape are very different than what Sheldon looks like.
Sheldon has a very high forehead but the only high forehead hairstyle in the game has bald spots that he does not have. The hairstyle makes a big difference, too. I found three that worked better than the others but none of them were very good.
None of the complexions have the right wrinkle/bones pattern. The Cooper complexion is the closest but it's very different, especially with the deep furrow in the center.
Cannot get a skin tone that is the right mixture of red and orange-yellow.
Can't get rid of the chin cleft or the beard stubble.
No control over the upper cheeks and the skull width on the outside of the eyes. The bulkiness of male cheekbones in STO is something I run into whenever I make a male character.
Sheldon's face is a more oval. It's hard to make a smooth oval with the editor, especially due to the width of the skull on the outside of the eyes.
Taper between neck and shoulders is more "muscular" in editor than Sheldon's neck/shoulder taper.
Can't make eyes as round as his are in some pics. His eyes are more almond-shaped in some other pictures.
Anyway... please try this yourself and post your results.
I am sadly painfully aware of that and I wish this was addressed, along with adding proper waist slider to balance things out...
Male characters, at least, have a waist slider. The trouble for them is that the glutes are tied to it so you have to either choose flat backside and reasonable waist size or round backside and old lady hips that jut far past the body horizontally and look literally like the man is part elderly woman.
Of course, you can try to compensate by giving the guy a very wide torso but if you want a less "heroic"/superhero/Arnold look then that solution doesn't work even slightly.
The problem seems to be more pronounced with certain races than for aliens. My alien Fed main has some curve even with a smaller waist but when I made other characters lately they were very flat unless I expanded the waist slider significantly past 50%, which caused the hips to look ugly.
I am sadly painfully aware of that and I wish this was addressed
Have you tried the new Dyson EV suits?
They basically did the exact opposite of what I was suggesting. The butt, at least on the guy's suit is completely flat. The original EV suits actually had, ironically, probably the most shapely ones in the whole game. It's interesting that this was addressed.
What I'm wondering is if the women's suits are also like this. I have a feeling the answer is no.
I would like to say another thing about male characters.
It's impossible to create an androgynous boy.
Not only for facial features but also for hairstyles. For a better customization I'd like that the hairstyles would be "universal" regardless of the gender of the character.
(...) If you want to be a flat-chested chick, you might as well just roll a dude. (...)
Dude, seriously? On behalf of all females in the cosmos, I thank you for the reduction to mammaries.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
It's an MMO, not a biological simulator. The characters are supposed to look "heroic". Males have "heroic" chests (musculature), and females have heroic TRIBBLE. What's the fuss? If you want to be a flat-chested chick, you might as well just roll a dude. It would be kinda funny though, if you could put a rack on male characters. Risa would be crawling with Captain Bruce... I mean ahem... Caitlyn Jenners right now.
This is not a random superhero-comic game, ones which I hate, for exactly this reason, btw, and you sir/ma'am are pretty narrow-minded. Not everyone wants to play barbies. Let people have options, is something I've been proposing for as long as I've been around. You want to make a ridiculous balloon-smuggling female? Fine.. but don't force us into doing the same, thank you.
And no, there would be plenty of Star Trek, without this ridiculous stereotypizing/TRIBBLE-comicish depiction of males and females alike.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
It's an MMO, not a biological simulator. The characters are supposed to look "heroic". Males have "heroic" chests (musculature), and females have heroic TRIBBLE. What's the fuss? If you want to be a flat-chested chick, you might as well just roll a dude. It would be kinda funny though, if you could put a rack on male characters. Risa would be crawling with Captain Bruce... I mean ahem... Caitlyn Jenners right now.
Yes, but this is a STAR TREK MMO. You want "hero TRIBBLE" as you so misoginistically put it? Go to DCUO. Or WoW. Trek has had its fair share of modestly-endowed ladies - Hoshi Sato, Sonya Gomez, Samantha Wildman, Ensign Taitt... hell, even JANEWAY, and she was a CAPTAIN. Problem is, the costumes have always been designed to show off. Plus, not every female has those. And since this is a game based on a series with (tentative) roots in the real, that means any body type as is naturally possible. And here's a hint - males with TRIBBLE don't fit that, though I doubt your claim that "Risa would be crawling with them" would be correct even if such existed. YOU might do that, but most people wouldn't. So, your misogyny is entirely anecdotal. In Trek, we saw flat women and the well-endowed, as well as both heroically buff and realistically flabby men. And indeed, all of these are possible in this game. It follows the source material. If you don't like it, go for a game with a different IP.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Comments
And I agree with you. I am not part of LGBT minority myself, as I discard genders (mainly the societal baggage around them) in general, and I feel that appealing to much broader spectrum of people would be a nice thing to do. Hopefully, we've made our point here...
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"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
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But, from the way you people talk, as far as making characters, you should really play the Sims, LOL. Could spend half a day+ just making a character, fine-tuning how he or she looks.
And honestly, I wish this game would take a page or three, from Sims3, on what you can accomplish with character models, hair, and clothing.
As far as adding stuff, for more variety, heck, if it's well done (or at least reasonably well done), that's never a bad thing.
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
PS: Sims suck, I prefer more.. action paced games, let alone playing a game simulating real life, no matter how silly, that's just... zzzZZzzz fest. :P
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
Lol, well, I have fun with the Sims games. Something different every now & again.
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
Agreed, there are lots of different sizes and shapes of species possible in the Trekverse. Many not possible with the character creator, unfortunately. But the way the outfits hug the buttocks does not have anything to do with the person's shape.
Irrelevant. This is about clothing. Unless I'm missing your point.
I didn't say that. But none are made in the manner that Football uniforms are. And I was specifically addressing the uniforms that weren't made for serious physical activity regardless.
Honestly, at least with Terran/Starfleet culture, I think this debate just boils down to what each of us thinks would actually hold importance to uniform design in the future. You seem to think that in the future, men would have clothing to accentuate male posteriors. I do not... and despite what some might think, I disagree not because I believe that somehow the future will be ruled by some sort of patriarchy, I just do not think that male asses will spark any arousal at all in women(TRIBBLE men is another story of course), as without erm... 'marital aids', women can not view a man's badonkadonk during sex. This is probably dependent on the species too though, depending on where the couple's genitals are located. Not to mention that I do not believe that the women of 2409 will care about an issue like this as much as they will issues with their own uniforms. But again, this boils down to what each of us thinks is appropriate in the STO continuity.
Of course, my point doesn't apply to alien cultures, but how do we display that in-game? Would we alter the design of certain clothes just for a few(possibly minor) species? Do we just implement tight clothing to the male butts of every species?
Don't get me wrong, I do not think there is anything wrong with having your proposal as an option. I'm just trying to discuss the rationality and implications of such an idea. I'm all for sexual equality as much as the next egalitarian. But just because something makes sense for one sex to have doesn't automatically make sense for the other sex to have. And above all, it comes down to the opinions of the society in question. Just as with morality, fashion is completely subjective.
I think that if everyone was appealed to got their way, except of course for the people(*coughbigotscough*) who actually want people to not be appealed to, the world would indeed be a better place. Selflessness is a virtue, as is tolerance. You don't have to accept other people's viewpoints, but you should tolerate and respect them.
How do you know we don't? >:3
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In most MMO's bodies are somewhat fit, that's the norm, and a fit male body sure does have much more buttocks than MMO's insist in showing. Heck, I'm a regular slim/fit guy and even I have more backside than some of the supposedly muscular bodies in here or other MMO's.
I know that many people think this is not important, but for some it is. Forum wars have started because of the infamous boob slider in many MMO's. Why do straight males get all the eye candy? MMO's are catering to a wider audience every year and character customization has to reflect that, sooner or later. For example I love strong women characters, that don't use their sex appeal to get what they want, a strong woman with a huge weapon, or armor, and I love my men to be more on the sexy side, it's just a matter of opinion and tastes.
The movie industry is already changing and adapting to it, these days you see as much beefcake as cheesecake in movies (and maybe even more) because they've realized their target audience is NOT only straight males anymore. Videogames and MMO's are slowly beginning to realize this aswell. But it's a very slow process.
So as long as more peple start voicing their opinion on this, the sooner things will begin to show. Maybe not for this game, but for future ones, one can never know what cryptic is planning for the future.
Of course, having the tailor actually work would also help. I can't get the outfit I've been wearing for two years to load now. All I can seem to get for the upper is some sort of fleece sweatshirt with seams or a generic vest.
Lol. Point taken, hehe. Just figured, with so many people that are wanting more customizability, til it's put into this game (or any others you may happen to play), Sims, especially Sims 3 is a good way to go wild on creating characters, and getting to make them look nice.
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One fairly easy first fix would be to separate the waist slider from buttock curvature.
Also i think it was mentioned already, But some variable skirt lengths would be great, I have a Female Bridge officer that wears the skirt as part of a dress uniform style, while it works, I do get the feeling it could do with some extra length, ( Not for any prudish reasons or anything, i just feel that the visable ratio of bare length to fabric looks a bit off)
Something that goes down to or below the knee? like this https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=professional+looking+skirt&safe=off&rlz=1C1GIGM_enGB566GB566&espv=210&es_sm=93&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=PxbrUv7oO4jH7Aa4oYCICQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1440&bih=775#q=wraf+uniform&safe=off&tbm=isch&facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=ErIdML74WcnpsM%253A%3B3LMwFjYDkK9LCM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.rafmuseum.org.uk%252Fimages%252Fonline_exhibitions%252F4LG.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.rafmuseum.org.uk%252Fresearch%252Fonline-exhibitions%252Fwomen-of-the-air-force%252Fall-the-same-buttons.aspx%3B600%3B584
Also in this area, Could it be possible for some more sliders to better customise the
lower legs ? so often i end up with character having tiny spindle like ankles and tiny feet that in realistic terms could barely support an adult huamnaoid
Its almost impossible to give atheletic Claves without ending up with massive upper legs that look like a chafing problem for the character in question , Same goes for arms which often have very thin forearms and wrists
I've made suggestions about female torso sliders improvements a while back.. the link is in my signature... as I too find the sliders a bit too irritating, when it comes to unability to change some things at all, where some things are unreasonably oversized with the sliders at minimum too... <.<
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a list of potential improvements
Notably, someone else said they completely agree with my suggestions.
limitations of the editor demo: my attempt to recreate Sheldon Cooper -- includes some explanation about why it's pretty much impossible to recreate him with a recognizable level of similarity
http://oi58.tinypic.com/2620h2p.jpg
http://oi57.tinypic.com/2mdrkuh.jpg
http://oi62.tinypic.com/16ga1vm.jpg
http://oi59.tinypic.com/t7z9kp.jpg
I don't want the devs to make it impossible to create hypersexualized women or freakishly legged males, but I do think the devs should allow us to adjust more things to create more interesting characters or aliens.
Some good body options that don't exist:
- Boob slider for males
- Waist slider (as someone said before, trying to make a woman with substance or a larger man is exceedingly difficult without a waist slider)
- Calf/Gleut sliders
- Torso Depth slider
- Bicep/Forearm slider
- Ribcage Slider
- Build Slider (Slender->Muscular->Fat)
- Ability to manipulate more of the facial features to avoid the Mary Jane and John Doe syndrome (where everyone looks the same) in both genders.
Some things that would be cool, but probably not viable:
- Ability to adjust the number of fingers and toes.
- Add more skin options (fur, scales, smooth, slimy, etc.) for aliens
- Add different types of heads so we can make aliens unique from simple humanoid shapes.
- Certainly the ability to have more than 2 legs and manipulate the attachment points. I can see why it isn't viable to make a species without arms that doesn't stand upright due to technology requiring a certain body type, but who's to say that an arachnid species didn't just keep their 8 legs while converting 2 of them to arms?
I mean no disrespect, but surely the engine allows you to do better than that? I've been able to successfully make the visage of Colonel O'Neil from Stargate Sg-1 in the engine, and it looked somewhat believable.
The devs were able to make very good approximations of Tuvok and Worf, so who is to say we can't do at least as well as they have?
I am sadly painfully aware of that and I wish this was addressed, along with adding proper waist slider to balance things out...
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I would really like to see what you can do. I am not being sarcastic or anything. I would like to see you post that I was right after trying it yourself so the editor can be made more flexible. More evidence is always helpful. Different people have different faces. The devs can make custom complexions, as they did for the Cooper character. They most likely have fewer restrictions on modeling (unlike the sliders we get).
Plus, the existing hairstyles and eyebrow shapes can work for recreating some people better than others. Sheldon's eyebrows are very far apart in comparison with what is available in the editor. He also has "jack-o-lantern" shaped eyebrows. Most of the male eyebrows are angry, pointing down toward the top of the nose and arching upward. Just eyebrow shape makes a big impact on the way a face looks.
Sheldon's mouth is more close to the female lips. The male editor's lips are a frown that goes downward and there is little definition between the four parts of the lips. The male lips are more like a lemon wedge or half moon. The frown and lip shape are very different than what Sheldon looks like.
Sheldon has a very high forehead but the only high forehead hairstyle in the game has bald spots that he does not have. The hairstyle makes a big difference, too. I found three that worked better than the others but none of them were very good.
None of the complexions have the right wrinkle/bones pattern. The Cooper complexion is the closest but it's very different, especially with the deep furrow in the center.
Cannot get a skin tone that is the right mixture of red and orange-yellow.
Can't get rid of the chin cleft or the beard stubble.
No control over the upper cheeks and the skull width on the outside of the eyes. The bulkiness of male cheekbones in STO is something I run into whenever I make a male character.
Sheldon's face is a more oval. It's hard to make a smooth oval with the editor, especially due to the width of the skull on the outside of the eyes.
Taper between neck and shoulders is more "muscular" in editor than Sheldon's neck/shoulder taper.
Can't make eyes as round as his are in some pics. His eyes are more almond-shaped in some other pictures.
Anyway... please try this yourself and post your results.
another image I used
another good example
and another
Of course, you can try to compensate by giving the guy a very wide torso but if you want a less "heroic"/superhero/Arnold look then that solution doesn't work even slightly.
The problem seems to be more pronounced with certain races than for aliens. My alien Fed main has some curve even with a smaller waist but when I made other characters lately they were very flat unless I expanded the waist slider significantly past 50%, which caused the hips to look ugly.
They basically did the exact opposite of what I was suggesting. The butt, at least on the guy's suit is completely flat. The original EV suits actually had, ironically, probably the most shapely ones in the whole game. It's interesting that this was addressed.
What I'm wondering is if the women's suits are also like this. I have a feeling the answer is no.
It's impossible to create an androgynous boy.
Not only for facial features but also for hairstyles. For a better customization I'd like that the hairstyles would be "universal" regardless of the gender of the character.
Dude, seriously? On behalf of all females in the cosmos, I thank you for the reduction to mammaries.
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And no, there would be plenty of Star Trek, without this ridiculous stereotypizing/TRIBBLE-comicish depiction of males and females alike.
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Yes, but this is a STAR TREK MMO. You want "hero TRIBBLE" as you so misoginistically put it? Go to DCUO. Or WoW. Trek has had its fair share of modestly-endowed ladies - Hoshi Sato, Sonya Gomez, Samantha Wildman, Ensign Taitt... hell, even JANEWAY, and she was a CAPTAIN. Problem is, the costumes have always been designed to show off. Plus, not every female has those. And since this is a game based on a series with (tentative) roots in the real, that means any body type as is naturally possible. And here's a hint - males with TRIBBLE don't fit that, though I doubt your claim that "Risa would be crawling with them" would be correct even if such existed. YOU might do that, but most people wouldn't. So, your misogyny is entirely anecdotal. In Trek, we saw flat women and the well-endowed, as well as both heroically buff and realistically flabby men. And indeed, all of these are possible in this game. It follows the source material. If you don't like it, go for a game with a different IP.
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