Yahweh, allah, mother nature, the supreme architect, the coyote spirit, the force, etc... Whichever sounds good to you.
Why does my definition of a god, assuming I even had one matter when you're the one including a god in your argument? You're the one that is positing a god, therefore, you are the one that must define that god. Afterward, you probably need to explain why any god matters in this discussion.
LOL. According to who? You? I don't have to do any such thing. Go watch cartoons, honey, the big people are talking now. Comeback when you're willing to discuss on topic, and not just trolling for a religious flame war.
Actually, you included an idea of a god in your very argument. You said, and I quote(for the second time), "You're born male or female. It's an act of God and can't be changed." ...you claimed it as an act of this "God" person. A claim which directly needs to be addressed before anyone should move on in the debate.
It is the very idea that these claims can't be questioned that you wish to avoid, and I think that your argument would crumble if they are properly addressed. And the fact is, anything that can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. If you wish to avoid discussion about which god you meant, then we can safely dismiss the very argument you defended using that statement.
I've managed to (mostly) get away from the hourglass form on my main Delta captain (a female joined trill who, for the record, is very much on the muscular side). I'll take some screen caps after maintenance and post links to them if you're interested.
If I recall correctly, Flores (your first boff) hasn't really got hourglass form either. She is in fact quite stocky around the middle, something I noticed when I put her in the female TOS uniform.
I've spent playing around with the sliders when they made the improvements & as I mentioned earlier in this thread - I'm more content with current shape as it screams less 'curves'. Granted, it could still be better in some areas, and getting desired effect was rather complicated... but at least they tried & I appreciate that, and overall, I like this better than what we had before.
Here, for illustration
PS: capnkirk4 still at it? *snort*
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
Hmm... Can't really tell. We need a profile shot. I do think Cryptic needs to adjust the borg eyepiece sliders, though. They seem to feminine to me.
*yawn* Go away, please. You put me to sleep.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
[blahblahblah...]She definitely wins the prize for Fugliest Chick in Star Fleet, though.
Thank you, kind sir! She is proud of it. Aesthetics are irrelevant. Appeasing you and your funny tastes with *my* character is irrelevant.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
Ignoring the intentional flames of the rest of your post, now that we've solidified the definition of the "act of God" you've mentioned, my next question comes to mind... so what? Telling us what essentially boils down to "nature did it, so we should stick to that" is a logical fallacy. Just because it's natural doesn't mean we must adhere to it in any way.
Just because it's natural doesn't mean we must adhere to it in any way.
But one not sticking to it being natural should not expect it to be considered natural...after all, if part of the argument is that one doesn't have to adhere to things natural, then one should be willing to accept it as something that is unnatural, no? It's pretty straightforward. As such, one deciding to step outside the natural shouldn't have any issue with somebody pointing out it's not natural, since the person deciding not to adhere to what's natural already knows that it is not natural. Again, it's pretty straightforward.
But one not sticking to it being natural should not expect it to be considered natural...after all, if part of the argument is that one doesn't have to adhere to things natural, then one should be willing to accept it as something that is unnatural, no? It's pretty straightforward. As such, one deciding to step outside the natural shouldn't have any issue with somebody pointing out it's not natural, since the person deciding not to adhere to what's natural already knows that it is not natural. Again, it's pretty straightforward.
It's the argument that one has that implies that X being unnatural justifies their position that X is taboo and shouldn't be accepted that I have a problem with. Merely calling something unnatual is fine - it is the reasons they do that for that matter.
It's the argument that one has that implies that X being unnatural justifies their position that X is taboo and shouldn't be accepted that I have a problem with. Merely calling something unnatual is fine - it is the reasons they do that for that matter.
No doubt the guy's going over the top with what he's saying, but it starts to come off as folks going over the top the other way in replying to him. It ends with what appears to be two extremist groups going at it...in a thread that started off with nothing to do with it, eh? The whole discussion breaks how many of the forum rules, eh/meh?
The OP simply wanted some...well...additional options for male characters. The OP finds a different type of male character attractive and wants those options. Pretty simple - pretty straightforward yeah?
Other folks discussed what they find attractive or simply what they want.
Others pointed out the difficulty in Cryptic being able to cater to everybody's particular desires to make just the perfect character they want.
And that should have pretty much been the back and forth argument/extent of any flamewar, no?
Discussion of mental illness, God, natural/unnatural, and all the rest going on...? Why bother? If somebody's trolling, just ignore and report them. Somebody just disagreeing isn't trolling though...and as long as folks don't flame each other while disagreeing (well, don't cross any lines while flaming)...it would just be another typical discussion on the character editor, yeah? Wouldn't be the first. Won't be the last. Some changes get made. Some don't. Life goes on. The thread's not a campaign podium...
edit: I mean, seriously, lol...look where the discussion has headed off, yeah? It was a simple argument thread that's likely to cover the difference between powdered mash potatoes vs. fresh by the time all is said and done.
History shows again, and again how nature points up the folly of man.
It's not nice to mess with mother nature. Ignore her at your own peril.
Yup, lets all abandon penicillin, Mother Nature hates it when we don't all die of infections.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
They continue to drastically cut the natural (there's that word again) attrition/depredation rates of their species, while continuing to increase their life spans and propagation rates with artificial drugs like penicillin, and Viagra.
At some point, when one species push nature to hard, nature will push back, and humble the species. That's how dinosaurs became birds. That's what destroyed the mega-fauna thereafter. Simply put, when too many people withdraw at the same bank, the bank runs out of money, and fails.
[/QUOTE]
No, that's the species failure to adapt, not a punishment from nature. Also, how exactly did dinosaurs 'push nature'? Did they drive cars and use up all the petrol?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
No, you don't know the difference between an infection, and an infestation. Even though the words, superficially, look the same to your keen intellect, look again, there are subtle differences in the letters.
No, it's not a natural adaptability. It's a manufactured adaptability.
The "norm" is replacing what you take. Simplest example: Cut a mature tree down, plant a sapling of the same tree. Which is something people rarely, if ever do. And if they do it, then it's on a negligible scale. Everybody always takes more than they give back. They usually justify it by saying they are just "providing for their family" or some other social claptrap. People remove trees to build houses so they can make more people. Eventually this short-sightedness will be halted, one way or another. Understand?
The dinosaurs ate up all the food on land. They could no longer sustain their mass. They had to either return to the sea, or get small, which allowed them to sustain themselves on insects, and mammals. Didn't you learn anything in school? They didn't use up all the petrol, they became petrol. See?
Okay, let me rephrase that first bit...
Nope, you don't know what an infestation is apparently.
Um, no manufactured is created, we can't create our own adaptability, it's no different from Chimps fishing with sticks.
So, taking more than our share is not normal? Fine. Good luck to the Earth to replenish all the stuff we've taken out.
Um, no, the Dinosaurs in the last age of the dinosaurs (the Cretaceous) didn't face that choice at all, the choice they faced was how to survive a meteoritic winter. The food was removed, they didn't remove it :rolleyes:.
They became oil, we make petrol.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Everybody always takes more than they give back. They usually justify it by saying they are just "providing for their family" or some other social claptrap. People remove trees to build houses so they can make more people.
That's true,I agree.
But guys,please,you can continue this discussion in another thread or in private messages if you want. We've drifted from the original subject here.
Personally, I find the speculation of an asteroid strike wiping out just the dinosaurs, (which it didn't, they evolved into birds) yet leaving every other species alive, to be quite outlandish.
Lights out again, Champ. You still want to continue this?
Well, not really, You've started to bore me. But I'll just answer this one, wrong, the asteroid wiped out more than the dinosaurs and some dinosaurs survived.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
...Is there any chance we could get some muscle definitions on female arms?
Even with bulk sliders maxed, it still looks a bit tin and not very well defined. The male arms are better but still lack definition.
That's about appeal isn't it?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
The topic has evolved. You gotta go where the road takes you.
You're right...and personally,I find this discussion interesting,so it's not a problem to me. I don't know what the mods think about this though...........but......yeah,since they seem invisible....
Comments
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It is the very idea that these claims can't be questioned that you wish to avoid, and I think that your argument would crumble if they are properly addressed. And the fact is, anything that can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. If you wish to avoid discussion about which god you meant, then we can safely dismiss the very argument you defended using that statement.
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
Wisest thing I've read in the last four pages.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
Here, for illustration
PS: capnkirk4 still at it? *snort*
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
looking good jodarkrider anyway
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
But one not sticking to it being natural should not expect it to be considered natural...after all, if part of the argument is that one doesn't have to adhere to things natural, then one should be willing to accept it as something that is unnatural, no? It's pretty straightforward. As such, one deciding to step outside the natural shouldn't have any issue with somebody pointing out it's not natural, since the person deciding not to adhere to what's natural already knows that it is not natural. Again, it's pretty straightforward.
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
No doubt the guy's going over the top with what he's saying, but it starts to come off as folks going over the top the other way in replying to him. It ends with what appears to be two extremist groups going at it...in a thread that started off with nothing to do with it, eh? The whole discussion breaks how many of the forum rules, eh/meh?
The OP simply wanted some...well...additional options for male characters. The OP finds a different type of male character attractive and wants those options. Pretty simple - pretty straightforward yeah?
Other folks discussed what they find attractive or simply what they want.
Others pointed out the difficulty in Cryptic being able to cater to everybody's particular desires to make just the perfect character they want.
And that should have pretty much been the back and forth argument/extent of any flamewar, no?
Discussion of mental illness, God, natural/unnatural, and all the rest going on...? Why bother? If somebody's trolling, just ignore and report them. Somebody just disagreeing isn't trolling though...and as long as folks don't flame each other while disagreeing (well, don't cross any lines while flaming)...it would just be another typical discussion on the character editor, yeah? Wouldn't be the first. Won't be the last. Some changes get made. Some don't. Life goes on. The thread's not a campaign podium...
edit: I mean, seriously, lol...look where the discussion has headed off, yeah? It was a simple argument thread that's likely to cover the difference between powdered mash potatoes vs. fresh by the time all is said and done.
Yup, lets all abandon penicillin, Mother Nature hates it when we don't all die of infections.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Nope, you don't know what an infection is apparently.
Nope. That's out natural adaptability.
That implies there is a 'norm' it will re adapt to. Care to suggest when that was?
[/QUOTE]
No, that's the species failure to adapt, not a punishment from nature. Also, how exactly did dinosaurs 'push nature'? Did they drive cars and use up all the petrol?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Okay, let me rephrase that first bit...
Nope, you don't know what an infestation is apparently.
Um, no manufactured is created, we can't create our own adaptability, it's no different from Chimps fishing with sticks.
So, taking more than our share is not normal? Fine. Good luck to the Earth to replenish all the stuff we've taken out.
Um, no, the Dinosaurs in the last age of the dinosaurs (the Cretaceous) didn't face that choice at all, the choice they faced was how to survive a meteoritic winter. The food was removed, they didn't remove it :rolleyes:.
They became oil, we make petrol.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
That's true,I agree.
But guys,please,you can continue this discussion in another thread or in private messages if you want. We've drifted from the original subject here.
Well, not really, You've started to bore me. But I'll just answer this one, wrong, the asteroid wiped out more than the dinosaurs and some dinosaurs survived.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Okay...
...Is there any chance we could get some muscle definitions on female arms?
Even with bulk sliders maxed, it still looks a bit tin and not very well defined. The male arms are better but still lack definition.
That's about appeal isn't it?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
You're right...and personally,I find this discussion interesting,so it's not a problem to me. I don't know what the mods think about this though...........but......yeah,since they seem invisible....
I was thinking about the same!