Inb4 necrolock (which I really wish wan't a problem if you added to the discussion, because then it keeps everything nice and neat in one place instead of being spread across lots of threads, IMO)...
Risa would be crawling with Captain Bruce... I mean ahem... Caitlyn Jenners right now.
That's a really bad thing to say Saying her birth name and then "correcting" yourself implies that you're not accepting her for who she is, which is... really, really rude. Please don't do that.
That's a really bad thing to say Saying her birth name and then "correcting" yourself implies that you're not accepting her for who she is, which is... really, really rude. Please don't do that.
His/Her entire post was straight out rude and disrespectful. People like him/her make me want to throw things... in their direction.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
No boobies = No mammals = No Homo Sapiens = No Star Trek.
Sure another species could possibly and invent TV, but whether or not there would be Star Trek is conjecture at this point.
Ergo, boobies are necessary for life as we now it, and should be accorded the respect they so rightfully deserve. Just sayin'.
Erm, no. Mammary glands are necessary to have mammals, TRIBBLE are not. If you'd care to look at the rest of the mammals in the world you'd notice that very few of them have any fatty tissue surrounding their mammary glands. Even our closest relatives the chimpanzees and bonobos have no TRIBBLE. Females have a slight swelling of the gland themselves in the period which they breast feed their young but it barely scrapes an A cup and they get completely flat chested as soon as their youngs are old enough to no longer require breast feeding.
So no, boobies are not a requirement to have mammals and "heroic" TRIBBLE most certainly are not.
Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it.
He's not a "she". He's a man with TRIBBLE, who uses artificial means to infuse himself with somebody elses hormones, and may, or may not wish to mutilate his genitalia.
Wow. The 5th century is calling, even they don't want you back.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
@capnkirk4: Well.. You know what they say. When you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything. It's extremely hard to be tolerant to someone who has as little tolerance as... yes, you. Maybe you kind sir/ma'am would like to start with yourself, and then try to 'teach' others about tolerance. Because believe it or not..
a) no, women are not defined by their mammalian glands or their size
b) no Trek is not about that
c) and no, we won't agree with you.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
You're so right. That's why they put Jeri Ryan in a catsuit to play a recovered borg drone, and not TRIBBLE Flatchest. If anyone would have no need for boobies, and would excise them at the first opportunity, it would be the Collective, yet there she was. Allow me to enlighten you. Star Trek is entertainment. And unless you've been hiding in a cave for the last 70 years or so, with no media contact what so ever, you would know that entertainment is ALL ABOUT THAT.
This is maybe the only thing one has to acknowledge you are right: Jeri Ryan and Jolene Blalock were indeed casted for "eyecandy" - Mr. Braga didn't even hide that and one can read that in interviews and statements made behind-the scenes. At least Jeri Ryan happens to be a good actress that just suffered terrible character writing but that's another topic.
However, your attitude and most of the conclusions you draw are, let me think of an appropriate term, sickening. I would advise you to try to develop some kind of sensitivity in dealing with fellow human beings, but I'm afraid any advise like that would be a waste. So I just quote Patton Oswalt here: "I can't talk to you."
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
It is, what it is. You cut the wings of a duck and sew fins on it, it's not a fish. It's a duck with fins fins sewn on it. All I'm sayin'.
Adding 'just sayin' to the end don't make what you said any less repugnant. Also your analogy is flawed, it is not possible to change species any ore than biological sex. It is however possible to change superficial external features to match up with a supposed psychological gender. 'Woman' here is referring to that gender, not the type of chromosomes. This concept is able to be understood by children, I wonder why you don't seem to be able to grasp it?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Really? So the whole IDIC thing doesn't support an intelligent, mammalian, species where it is the males who suckle the young? Your first two sentences above, would seem to be contra-indicative of each other, by the way.
As for my "misogyny" I'm the one advocating for the depiction of Ta-Tas in the game. Based on the amount of vehemence with which you're attacking me with, you seem to be the one with the problem. Thanks for understanding my opinion. I'm continually amused by the fact that the biggest advocates for tolerance, are always the most intolerant people of all.
What part of "anyone is allowed to do anything with their character within reason" contradicts IDIC? Male genetics dictate that they will not grow the same type of mammaries a female might. This does not defy IDIC. Remember, the "infinite diversity" comes before the "infinite combinations." In the case of humanoid beings, diversity is derived from genetic variance. Within this diversity you may have your combinations. If you really want a male with TRIBBLE - which would be an artificial enhancement - just make a female and use the sliders to make it look male.
And I'm not attacking you. I'm pointing out that your case for "every woman should have superhero sacks" is immature, close-minded, and intolerant. Tolerance is - as I do - accepting anyone's body type. Note, above, I did not say you COULDN'T have a man with TRIBBLE. Just that it is not possible realistically without artificial enhancement. You want a guy with TRIBBLE? More power to you. You want to tell people that they should all make characters based on your beliefs? No. "My right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins," as the old saying goes.
He's not a "she". He's a man with TRIBBLE, who uses artificial means to infuse himself with somebody elses hormones, and may, or may not wish to mutilate his genitalia.
Under both legal and scientific terms, that classifies the person as a "she." It's not a matter of "Extreme Crossdresser: Celebrity Edition," it is an election to change what gender they are.
You're so right. That's why they put Jeri Ryan in a catsuit to play a recovered borg drone, and not TRIBBLE Flatchest. If anyone would have no need for boobies, and would excise them at the first opportunity, it would be the Collective, yet there she was. Allow me to enlighten you. Star Trek is entertainment. And unless you've been hiding in a cave for the last 70 years or so, with no media contact what so ever, you would know that entertainment is ALL ABOUT THAT.
Trek is entertainment based largely on philosophy. However, entertainment of any kind requires some sort of advertisement. A hook. Jeri Ryan was - as stated by the writers - just that. Even Shakespeare knew: Sex sells. Put an attractive woman on the cover of a book, you draw the attention of a certain audience. Once drawn in, you can do the thing you're about. Jeri Ryan's jugs were not the centerpiece, they were an attraction to get you TO the centerpiece.
You're so right. That's why they put Jeri Ryan in a catsuit to play a recovered borg drone, and not TRIBBLE Flatchest. If anyone would have no need for boobies, and would excise them at the first opportunity, it would be the Collective, yet there she was. Allow me to enlighten you. Star Trek is entertainment. And unless you've been hiding in a cave for the last 70 years or so, with no media contact what so ever, you would know that entertainment is ALL ABOUT THAT.
The entertainment is mostly like that, because of people like you... who want women to be portrayed as eye-candy. And as Ice said - sadly, it's still truth that 'sex sells'. 7 of 9 would be much more consistent character, if they left her Borgy and tried less forcibly to make her into a walking barbie. It was a character-writing flaw, as someone who says 'Aesthetics are irrelevant' wouldn't be walking in a tight suit in which you can barely breathe and in high-heels, on a starship, when practicality is required and prefered.
And this is, my dear sir/ma'am not just my opinion. The character would be less contradicting itself, if it wasn't for the 'eye-candy'. I'd respect the character far more, and so would some others. Not everyone has my opinion, but that's perfectly fine. My point is, you disrespect people for disagreeing with you, in an insulting way - just because we "fail" to agree with you, and your need to have large-comic-superhero TRIBBLE on females in a Trek game.
Most of us are OK with that option, next to.. having, you know, less obvious parts. And that makes us tolerant and you.. make the math. As the claim 'if you want a flat-chested chick, make a dude' or comment like, totally disrespecting someone's choice on gender, because you disagree with it... tell a clear story.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
He's not a "she". He's a man with TRIBBLE, who uses artificial means to infuse himself with somebody elses hormones, and may, or may not wish to mutilate his genitalia.
*another violent jerk to the left*
"Captain, shields are at 21%! We've lost impulse!"
Oh, and no, you've been misinformed. Scientifically, if you possess a Y chromosome, you're a male. That's just how it is.
You apparently have a reading disorder as well as a lack of empathy.
'Male' or 'Female' can refer to either the biological sex or the psychological gender of a person.
I really don't see how you can fail to understand that.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Again, you've been misinformed. I don't know what else to tell you.
Well you could try telling me how exactly I've been misinformed.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Honestly, I had nothing to do with the 7 of 9 character, either in how it was written, or what actress portrayed her, I wasn't consulted. So, no, it has nothing to do with "people like me".
You have to admit, though, she did look as good going, as she did coming.:D
Stop making decisions for others. That's all I have to say. You constantly purposefuly twist & misinterpret people's posts. It's getting old, and I think I'm done with you. I've said my opinion. You can disagree, but stop putting things into my mouth, what I'm supposed to think or like. I won't do that. Deal with it.
And yes, 'male' & 'female' can be either what genitalia you've been born with (that's when it's referred to as "sex") or what you identify yourself as (then, it's called "gender", aka the societal baggage attached to the term). You should do some reading up, before saying people've been misinformed. Frankly, in my opinion, you're only making a fool of yourself.
PS: And no, she (7 of 9) didn't look good. She looked ridiculous, contradictory to the concept of the character she was meant to portray. 'Aesthetics are irrelevant', so no.. again, wearing a tight-outfit she could barely breathe in, and high-heels, which would make her trip over in a starship , is completelly in the opposite direction of the character, which was completelly on the practical side, and wouldn't wear this TRIBBLE, ever.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
Male genetics of an imaginary species cannot dictate anything, and I'm gonna tell you why. Because it's not real. Understand?
What part of 'Based on Reality" did you not comprehend? By all rights, your logic should permit you to create a many-tentacled eldritch horror that moves by distorting space-time. After all, it's not real. But no. Our characters are based on normal people living in the future. Just because "it's not real" doesn't mean you get to be completely absurd. You must still operate within the universe you play in, and this specific one operates on rules based on human genetics. Most Trek humanoids obey this principle. As such, most Trek humanoids can't make a giant-breasted male. Though, I find it absolutely HILARIOUS that you argue that "I can do whatever I want because it's not reality," and yet tell people that they should make a male if they want a woman without TRIBBLE. Your hypocrisy astounds me, as I have never seen anything like it - and I debate politics as a hobby.
Now, let me clarify, as some of the readers here seem to be either too intellectually handicapped, or too overzealous in their desire to start a flame to understand what my point is. I offered my opinion on a subject as a possible explanation as to why something is the way it is in game. The same way you chimed in on my apparent error, in not believing the same things you do. This game isn't really about Star Trek. It's about an MMO in a Star Trek wrapper. Most people that have played videogames for any length of time, understand that MMOs contain a high level of shall we say exaggeration. STO is no different. For example, are batleths as depicted in the shows truly as tall as the Klingons who use them. No. Are Starfleet phasers truly the size of blow dryers in the shows. Once again, no.
Okay... So you start with a bunch of ad hominem. I'm just going to ignore that. Even IF this is "just an MMO with a Star Trek wrapper," that still means this is a Trek-themed MMO, and thus still means that you must obey common sense. It also means you don't force everyone to make super-breasted sex idols. Your original (and highly condescending) post said, and I direct quote:
It's an MMO, not a biological simulator. The characters are supposed to look "heroic". Males have "heroic" chests (musculature), and females have heroic TRIBBLE. What's the fuss? If you want to be a flat-chested chick, you might as well just roll a dude. It would be kinda funny though, if you could put a rack on male characters. Risa would be crawling with Captain Bruce... I mean ahem... Caitlyn Jenners right now.
Neither of these things are true. The character is not supposed to look generically "heroic". I, personally, do not consider Picard or Archer to look particularly "heroic." But they, nonetheless, were main characters. Your character is a starship captain, not a superhero. Therefore, you do not need to LOOK like a superhero. And so, if someone wants a flat-chested woman, they can do that, and you are (and have been) entirely out of line telling them otherwise.
So I stand by my original statement, which is, after all, only my opinion. It's an MMO, not a biological simulator, deal with it, or go play something else if it bothers you that much.
How about, instead of telling people what they should and should not do, you go play an MMO where things really are completely outlandish and nonsensical. Another MMO might let you make your racked dude, but you clearly miss the point of this game - that is, to be a game set in and based on Star Trek. Which seems to have things you don't seem to believe exists. Like women who don't exist just to be eye candy.
Oh, and no, you've been misinformed. Scientifically, if you possess a Y chromosome, you're a male. That's just how it is.
That is the STRICTEST definition, yes. However, we live in a world where there are animals that (if they cannot find a mate) have biological means to make themselves the opposite gender, impregnate themselves, and spawn offspring. Barring the most restrictive and close-minded definition, consider what a sex change is: An alteration of a person's physical gender. Once done, this alteration means that the person IS the other gender. They have chosen to be something else, and they made that change. It is not your place to tell them that their choice is wrong, or invalid. I'll come back to this.
Finally, Who's "philosophy" was Star Trek based upon. Gene Roddenberry. A confirmed meatman, and somebody who objectified women. That's what the tight miniskirts, and go-go boots were about FYI.
It was indeed very well-known that Roddenberry wasn't exactly the most equalist person in the world. However, it is not HIS philosophy that Trek is based on - at least, not the one he lived by. There are several cases of him writing or commissioning works championing women's rights. Trek is about total equality. Just because its creator didn't live by those rules doesn't mean you get to tell everyone how they should look in the game.
Again, you've been misinformed. I don't know what else to tell you.
Really? Let's look at the definition of gender, then. because it is the closest to the matter of dicussion, we will use definiton 2b: "the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex". 2a redirects to Sex, the first definition of which is: "either of the two major forms of individuals that occur in many species and that are distinguished respectively as female or male especially on the basis of their reproductive organs and structures". SO, the three criteria of gender are:
Physical components and organs
Behavioral mannerisms
Psychological traits
Ergo, if someone alters the first, and takes hormones that influence the second and third, they are then classified scientifically as being the other gender. WE are not misinformed. Indeed, 'tis you who are not, if you use the most narrow and exclusive argument to further your case. Gender is not an exclusively genetic matter. This is recognized in several fields of science - including medicine, biology, and psychology - as well as by legal terms. A sex change is not "pretending" to be a gender, it is BECOMING it.
Woah, woah, woah! How did we got from someone's fantasy from two years ago to the science of sex and gender (including the differences between the two) in a necro?
If I might add something regardless, if you use the sliders right, you can create a female character with very small TRIBBLE who looks reasonably realistic. Okay one can't make the bodybuilder Jodarkrider seems to want to (this is my interpretation and is not intended to be taken as description of the actual intent of Jodarkrider) just as you can't shift the hourglass form (yet) without distorting other characteristics of the model but given the setting and how any military organisation demands a certain level of fitness for all personnel I think that is a reasonable limitation, if slightly irritating to some people sometimes.
As for the reverse for guys, I submit the same reasoning.
Woah, woah, woah! How did we got from someone's fantasy from two years ago to the science of sex and gender (including the differences between the two) in a necro?
If I might add something regardless, if you use the sliders right, you can create a female character with very small TRIBBLE who looks reasonably realistic. Okay one can't make the bodybuilder Jodarkrider seems to want to (this is my interpretation and is not intended to be taken as description of the actual intent of Jodarkrider) just as you can't shift the hourglass form (yet) without distorting other characteristics of the model but given the setting and how any military organisation demands a certain level of fitness for all personnel I think that is a reasonable limitation, if slightly irritating to some people sometimes.
As for the reverse for guys, I submit the same reasoning.
Erm, my intents are irrelevant for the purpose of current course of discussion, but since you brought it up - I've always wanted to make a character, which indeed, does go away from 'hourglass' form (or barbie form).. it is doable currently, with little trial & error. Is it 100% to my liking? No. But it's defo better than it used to be. I personally find it ridiculous, that this form is 'standard' in Trek game.. as some uniforms definitelly would hide these, rather than show them more.. but eh. Again.. having choices though, is what matters, not taking this from others, and that's what I always proposed & will continue to do so. *shrug*
Alas, back to the original question of yours - Some of us are rather baffled by logic.. or lack of thereof in some posts from one individual. See.. it's okay to disagree with an opinion of someone, but when they enter the level of derogatory comments and tell us how and what to think, and what to like.. that's when I unleash the Targs.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
Comments
That's a really bad thing to say
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
Erm, no. Mammary glands are necessary to have mammals, TRIBBLE are not. If you'd care to look at the rest of the mammals in the world you'd notice that very few of them have any fatty tissue surrounding their mammary glands. Even our closest relatives the chimpanzees and bonobos have no TRIBBLE. Females have a slight swelling of the gland themselves in the period which they breast feed their young but it barely scrapes an A cup and they get completely flat chested as soon as their youngs are old enough to no longer require breast feeding.
So no, boobies are not a requirement to have mammals and "heroic" TRIBBLE most certainly are not.
Wow. The 5th century is calling, even they don't want you back.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
@capnkirk4: Well.. You know what they say. When you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything. It's extremely hard to be tolerant to someone who has as little tolerance as... yes, you. Maybe you kind sir/ma'am would like to start with yourself, and then try to 'teach' others about tolerance. Because believe it or not..
a) no, women are not defined by their mammalian glands or their size
b) no Trek is not about that
c) and no, we won't agree with you.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
This is maybe the only thing one has to acknowledge you are right: Jeri Ryan and Jolene Blalock were indeed casted for "eyecandy" - Mr. Braga didn't even hide that and one can read that in interviews and statements made behind-the scenes. At least Jeri Ryan happens to be a good actress that just suffered terrible character writing but that's another topic.
However, your attitude and most of the conclusions you draw are, let me think of an appropriate term, sickening. I would advise you to try to develop some kind of sensitivity in dealing with fellow human beings, but I'm afraid any advise like that would be a waste. So I just quote Patton Oswalt here: "I can't talk to you."
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Adding 'just sayin' to the end don't make what you said any less repugnant. Also your analogy is flawed, it is not possible to change species any ore than biological sex. It is however possible to change superficial external features to match up with a supposed psychological gender. 'Woman' here is referring to that gender, not the type of chromosomes. This concept is able to be understood by children, I wonder why you don't seem to be able to grasp it?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
We come in peace, SHOOT TO KILL!
What part of "anyone is allowed to do anything with their character within reason" contradicts IDIC? Male genetics dictate that they will not grow the same type of mammaries a female might. This does not defy IDIC. Remember, the "infinite diversity" comes before the "infinite combinations." In the case of humanoid beings, diversity is derived from genetic variance. Within this diversity you may have your combinations. If you really want a male with TRIBBLE - which would be an artificial enhancement - just make a female and use the sliders to make it look male.
And I'm not attacking you. I'm pointing out that your case for "every woman should have superhero sacks" is immature, close-minded, and intolerant. Tolerance is - as I do - accepting anyone's body type. Note, above, I did not say you COULDN'T have a man with TRIBBLE. Just that it is not possible realistically without artificial enhancement. You want a guy with TRIBBLE? More power to you. You want to tell people that they should all make characters based on your beliefs? No. "My right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins," as the old saying goes.
Under both legal and scientific terms, that classifies the person as a "she." It's not a matter of "Extreme Crossdresser: Celebrity Edition," it is an election to change what gender they are.
Trek is entertainment based largely on philosophy. However, entertainment of any kind requires some sort of advertisement. A hook. Jeri Ryan was - as stated by the writers - just that. Even Shakespeare knew: Sex sells. Put an attractive woman on the cover of a book, you draw the attention of a certain audience. Once drawn in, you can do the thing you're about. Jeri Ryan's jugs were not the centerpiece, they were an attraction to get you TO the centerpiece.
And this is, my dear sir/ma'am not just my opinion. The character would be less contradicting itself, if it wasn't for the 'eye-candy'. I'd respect the character far more, and so would some others. Not everyone has my opinion, but that's perfectly fine. My point is, you disrespect people for disagreeing with you, in an insulting way - just because we "fail" to agree with you, and your need to have large-comic-superhero TRIBBLE on females in a Trek game.
Most of us are OK with that option, next to.. having, you know, less obvious parts. And that makes us tolerant and you.. make the math. As the claim 'if you want a flat-chested chick, make a dude' or comment like, totally disrespecting someone's choice on gender, because you disagree with it... tell a clear story.
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*violently jerks to the left*
Report!
"We've been hit by some kind of incredibly dense torpedo weapon, sir!"
Raise shields and reverse course, we-
*another violent jerk to the left*
"Captain, shields are at 21%! We've lost impulse!"
"High levels of irony are flooding engineering! We've got a core breach!"
ALL HANDS ABANDON THREAD, ALL HANDS ABANDON-
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You apparently have a reading disorder as well as a lack of empathy.
'Male' or 'Female' can refer to either the biological sex or the psychological gender of a person.
I really don't see how you can fail to understand that.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Well you could try telling me how exactly I've been misinformed.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
And yes, 'male' & 'female' can be either what genitalia you've been born with (that's when it's referred to as "sex") or what you identify yourself as (then, it's called "gender", aka the societal baggage attached to the term). You should do some reading up, before saying people've been misinformed. Frankly, in my opinion, you're only making a fool of yourself.
PS: And no, she (7 of 9) didn't look good. She looked ridiculous, contradictory to the concept of the character she was meant to portray. 'Aesthetics are irrelevant', so no.. again, wearing a tight-outfit she could barely breathe in, and high-heels, which would make her trip over in a starship , is completelly in the opposite direction of the character, which was completelly on the practical side, and wouldn't wear this TRIBBLE, ever.
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"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
What part of 'Based on Reality" did you not comprehend? By all rights, your logic should permit you to create a many-tentacled eldritch horror that moves by distorting space-time. After all, it's not real. But no. Our characters are based on normal people living in the future. Just because "it's not real" doesn't mean you get to be completely absurd. You must still operate within the universe you play in, and this specific one operates on rules based on human genetics. Most Trek humanoids obey this principle. As such, most Trek humanoids can't make a giant-breasted male. Though, I find it absolutely HILARIOUS that you argue that "I can do whatever I want because it's not reality," and yet tell people that they should make a male if they want a woman without TRIBBLE. Your hypocrisy astounds me, as I have never seen anything like it - and I debate politics as a hobby.
Okay... So you start with a bunch of ad hominem. I'm just going to ignore that. Even IF this is "just an MMO with a Star Trek wrapper," that still means this is a Trek-themed MMO, and thus still means that you must obey common sense. It also means you don't force everyone to make super-breasted sex idols. Your original (and highly condescending) post said, and I direct quote:
Neither of these things are true. The character is not supposed to look generically "heroic". I, personally, do not consider Picard or Archer to look particularly "heroic." But they, nonetheless, were main characters. Your character is a starship captain, not a superhero. Therefore, you do not need to LOOK like a superhero. And so, if someone wants a flat-chested woman, they can do that, and you are (and have been) entirely out of line telling them otherwise.
How about, instead of telling people what they should and should not do, you go play an MMO where things really are completely outlandish and nonsensical. Another MMO might let you make your racked dude, but you clearly miss the point of this game - that is, to be a game set in and based on Star Trek. Which seems to have things you don't seem to believe exists. Like women who don't exist just to be eye candy.
That is the STRICTEST definition, yes. However, we live in a world where there are animals that (if they cannot find a mate) have biological means to make themselves the opposite gender, impregnate themselves, and spawn offspring. Barring the most restrictive and close-minded definition, consider what a sex change is: An alteration of a person's physical gender. Once done, this alteration means that the person IS the other gender. They have chosen to be something else, and they made that change. It is not your place to tell them that their choice is wrong, or invalid. I'll come back to this.
It was indeed very well-known that Roddenberry wasn't exactly the most equalist person in the world. However, it is not HIS philosophy that Trek is based on - at least, not the one he lived by. There are several cases of him writing or commissioning works championing women's rights. Trek is about total equality. Just because its creator didn't live by those rules doesn't mean you get to tell everyone how they should look in the game.
Really? Let's look at the definition of gender, then. because it is the closest to the matter of dicussion, we will use definiton 2b: "the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex". 2a redirects to Sex, the first definition of which is: "either of the two major forms of individuals that occur in many species and that are distinguished respectively as female or male especially on the basis of their reproductive organs and structures". SO, the three criteria of gender are:
Ergo, if someone alters the first, and takes hormones that influence the second and third, they are then classified scientifically as being the other gender. WE are not misinformed. Indeed, 'tis you who are not, if you use the most narrow and exclusive argument to further your case. Gender is not an exclusively genetic matter. This is recognized in several fields of science - including medicine, biology, and psychology - as well as by legal terms. A sex change is not "pretending" to be a gender, it is BECOMING it.
If I might add something regardless, if you use the sliders right, you can create a female character with very small TRIBBLE who looks reasonably realistic. Okay one can't make the bodybuilder Jodarkrider seems to want to (this is my interpretation and is not intended to be taken as description of the actual intent of Jodarkrider) just as you can't shift the hourglass form (yet) without distorting other characteristics of the model but given the setting and how any military organisation demands a certain level of fitness for all personnel I think that is a reasonable limitation, if slightly irritating to some people sometimes.
As for the reverse for guys, I submit the same reasoning.
Alas, back to the original question of yours - Some of us are rather baffled by logic.. or lack of thereof in some posts from one individual. See.. it's okay to disagree with an opinion of someone, but when they enter the level of derogatory comments and tell us how and what to think, and what to like.. that's when I unleash the Targs.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider