Your point? The English word has existed 800 years or so, but it came from Latin which came from something else etc.
My point is that the Althing was founded just under 1100 years ago - rather longer than the 800 years you claim. Therefore, your point is void, completely aside from the logical fallacy you commit in the first place.
and if you look at any of the old religions you see it has a common concept of one man and one women.
You clearly never looked at any of those old religious laws or you'd seen all the stuff about one man-many women, or men and slaves. Or even other cultures (I know right?) where you could marry two males, sanctioned by gods no less.
Actually he's right, the word itself has been around for over 800 years. No country has existed that long.
No country had existed from 800 years to now? Really, you wanna go google that?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
My point is that the Althing was founded just under 1100 years ago - rather longer than the 800 years you claim. Therefore, your point is void, completely aside from the logical fallacy you commit in the first place.
Your logical fallacy is in assuming some Eskimos learning how to vote 1100 years ago has anything to do with the current arguments, because it doesn't. Historians can trace it marriage rituals back for millennia, it had nothing to do with a government.
Historians can trace it marriage rituals back for millennia, it had nothing to do with a government.
Well, that depends on how you define the term "government". Because in it's most basic sense, it simply means one guy in charge of another guy. And as long as people have existed, there has been some form of tribal order, even if it was the priest who was in charge. That would actually be a "theocracy", which is a government run by the church itself.
Your logical fallacy is in assuming some Eskimos learning how to vote 1100 years ago has anything to do with the current arguments, because it doesn't. Historians can trace it marriage rituals back for millennia, it had nothing to do with a government.
Eskimos? You're calling the people of Iceland who came from Scandinavia eskimos?
The problem with making absolute statements is that there are almost always exceptions. And I have no doubt that at some places, at some points in history, a certificate that may have been given to a couple from their local Church and not the state itself may have been enough to do legal business with. That is obviously not the case now(at least where I live), but you specifically said "has always been", so that is why making absolute statements like that is a flawed way to make your point.
Sure, I'll give you that. The statement was a rhetorical thing, not a profound point of formal logic.
Let's go ahead and give a real-life example: In Turkey, laws are currently being passed that allow couples to perform the nikah, or religious marriage in stead of the secular,state-sponsored marriage. In Yemen, Afghanistan, Pakistan, some areas of central Asia, this is common practice.
Marriage was not always (and is not always now) a secular, state-sponsored ceremony, not by a longshot. Marriage existed well before the modern state. Marriage has, however, become a secular, state-governed ordeal in most countries, and by doing that, has allowed the definition of marriage to expand from the religious limitations imposed on it. It doesn't matter when state-sanctioned marriages began, and the history is irrelevant; what matters is that there is a system in place that has the capacity to see marriage as something more than an archaic religious coupling.
Yes, but the state, or perhaps more appropriately the prevailing government, sanctioned every one of your examples. Marriage is about property, wealth and lineage - at least in the eyes of the law. Even down to tribal governance there needs to be a community endorsement or at least tacit acceptance of a marriage for it to be valid in the society.
Now which came first, government or religion... I'd argue government since a family, being the most basic unit of society, would need structure prior to any spiritual concerns. But I'm not married to the idea [da-dum-dum].
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Well, that depends on how you define the term "government". Because in it's most basic sense, it simply means one guy in charge of another guy. And as long as people have existed, there has been some form of tribal order, even if it was the priest who was in charge. That would actually be a "theocracy", which is a government run by the church itself.
lol, that's just sophistry i think we can assume for the sake of this argument we are talking about formalized government, or maybe centralized? and their interest in marriages (births and deaths) is a process of census. the church taking control of the marriage process would mean that all marriages would be reported to the centralized body (government/monarchy/Tzar) and allow provision for taxes to be raised and levied etc.
lol, that's just sophistry i think we can assume for the sake of this argument we are talking about formalized government, or maybe centralized? and their interest in marriages (births and deaths) is a process of consensus.
And taxes, formalised government leads to a lot of taxes .
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
lol, that's just sophistry i think we can assume for the sake of this argument we are talking about formalized government, or maybe centralized? and their interest in marriages (births and deaths) is a process of consensus.
How big does your tribe have to be before it's "formalized" or "centralized"? And if the strongest guy is in charge, how is that a consensus?
So... what is the actual line in the mission that confirms the two Klingon women are a couple?
'Mate'.
Interpret how we will.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
You clearly never looked at any of those old religious laws or you'd seen all the stuff about one man-many women, or men and slaves. Or even other cultures (I know right?) where you could marry two males, sanctioned by gods no less.
Shellfish is an abomination in the bible and is forbidden to be consumed. And if you consume it, you'll end up in a dead shellfish hell after you die.... But no one ever talks about it because people love crab and lobster.
Comments
I didn't realize Queen Elizabeth II had been around THAT long... 😂
Your point? The English word has existed 800 years or so, but it came from Latin which came from something else etc.
You clearly never looked at any of those old religious laws or you'd seen all the stuff about one man-many women, or men and slaves. Or even other cultures (I know right?) where you could marry two males, sanctioned by gods no less.
No country had existed from 800 years to now? Really, you wanna go google that?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Your logical fallacy is in assuming some Eskimos learning how to vote 1100 years ago has anything to do with the current arguments, because it doesn't. Historians can trace it marriage rituals back for millennia, it had nothing to do with a government.
Well, that depends on how you define the term "government". Because in it's most basic sense, it simply means one guy in charge of another guy. And as long as people have existed, there has been some form of tribal order, even if it was the priest who was in charge. That would actually be a "theocracy", which is a government run by the church itself.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
indeed the ritual far far predates the word.
If you live on an icecube your an Eskimo.
Isn't stereotyping fun!?!
Sure, I'll give you that. The statement was a rhetorical thing, not a profound point of formal logic.
Yes, but the state, or perhaps more appropriately the prevailing government, sanctioned every one of your examples. Marriage is about property, wealth and lineage - at least in the eyes of the law. Even down to tribal governance there needs to be a community endorsement or at least tacit acceptance of a marriage for it to be valid in the society.
Now which came first, government or religion... I'd argue government since a family, being the most basic unit of society, would need structure prior to any spiritual concerns. But I'm not married to the idea [da-dum-dum].
You're.
Isn't grammar fun?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
lol, that's just sophistry
@artan42.. lol wrote this then read yours
And taxes, formalised government leads to a lot of taxes
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
How big does your tribe have to be before it's "formalized" or "centralized"? And if the strongest guy is in charge, how is that a consensus?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
So, serious question, is "lezzys" like the N word now? Im pro ATTRACTIVE lesbians for TRIBBLE purposes.
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
'Mate'.
Interpret how we will.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Shellfish is an abomination in the bible and is forbidden to be consumed. And if you consume it, you'll end up in a dead shellfish hell after you die.... But no one ever talks about it because people love crab and lobster.
http://i.imgur.com/9tQNq8h.jpg
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
sorry auto corrected census to concensus.. i meant formalized to the point of gathering data and keeping centralized records
Job job "MATE"!
sorry I had to.