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TRIBBLE Klingons
velqua
Member Posts: 1,220 Arc User
Though it was nice to see the story writers of STO embracing diversity with the various species of the Star Trek universe, I found the two Klingon lesbians in House Pegh to be stretch of Klingon culture. As far as I can recall, female Klingons have never been portrayed to encompass a TRIBBLE lifestyle even though we do see the two Duras sisters with each other throughout the TNG era. That's not to say that it shouldn't be there, but some back story regarding these two would have been nice. Also, placing the concept of TRIBBLE Klingons in a story about Kahless' secret organization and the mission to infiltrate the Iconian base felt a bit out of place. If anything, these two female Klingons should have had a bigger role to give more relevance to their "love" story.
As for the characters, I feel that there really wasn't a need to make one a "butch" TRIBBLE and the other a "lipstick" TRIBBLE. As far as female warriors go (as seen in the TNG episode where Commander Riker stays on Klingon ship), they tend to be Klingon--neither "butch" nor "lipstick". I feel that the "butch" character should have had more dialog and less grunts.
It would be nice if the writers would revisit these two characters so that we can get to know them and the reason for choosing each other as mates, if for no other reason than to see how Klingon culture deals with those individuals who embrace same-sex orientation.
In the future, I would like to see sexual orientations match closer to those species that are more likely to express them such as Humans, Trills, Betazoids, etc.. Also, I would hope that the writers would avoid stereotypical characteristics of people with diverse sexual orientations and bring out characters that players can relate to not just because of sexual orientation but because they are developed characters that bring the story to life.
Though House Pegh was a better way of incorporating characters with same-sex orientation than Jensen lusting have the male dancer in The Undying mission on Nimbus III, future episodes need to have that Star Trek feel to them as not to trivialize the diversity of sexual orientation.
As for the characters, I feel that there really wasn't a need to make one a "butch" TRIBBLE and the other a "lipstick" TRIBBLE. As far as female warriors go (as seen in the TNG episode where Commander Riker stays on Klingon ship), they tend to be Klingon--neither "butch" nor "lipstick". I feel that the "butch" character should have had more dialog and less grunts.
It would be nice if the writers would revisit these two characters so that we can get to know them and the reason for choosing each other as mates, if for no other reason than to see how Klingon culture deals with those individuals who embrace same-sex orientation.
In the future, I would like to see sexual orientations match closer to those species that are more likely to express them such as Humans, Trills, Betazoids, etc.. Also, I would hope that the writers would avoid stereotypical characteristics of people with diverse sexual orientations and bring out characters that players can relate to not just because of sexual orientation but because they are developed characters that bring the story to life.
Though House Pegh was a better way of incorporating characters with same-sex orientation than Jensen lusting have the male dancer in The Undying mission on Nimbus III, future episodes need to have that Star Trek feel to them as not to trivialize the diversity of sexual orientation.
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My life is complete...
So I don't know.
Or LGBT individuals could be just people, and not have all stories involving us and our relationships have to be tales about how difficult it is to be LGBT in this cruel and unpleasant universe.
Because that's what I want, and what I got out of that couple.
Truly, we have our priorities in order.
while I agree the time taken raging over it is time wasted it's a hot topic that people have strong views over whether it's good or bad views.
Guess what I'm saying is its not a topic that brought up wouldn't expel energy and fireworks of some sort.
I am actually not outraged. I feel that if you are going to introduce something new to a culture that has had no previous mentioning, you need to give more information (story). I am totally fine with TRIBBLE or TRIBBLE Klingons. Since this topic hasn't been discussed in the Star Trek universe with regards to Klingons, I would like see how Klingon culture deals with this. Perhaps Klingons don't care, and it is very acceptable to them. Having that information shown in the story is helpful. The officer mentioning the one choosing the other as a mate didn't really say much about their point of view on the topic. Having Kahless saying something like he was happy to see the two finding each other like he did with his love in his former life would have given that point of view of Klingon culture.
Frankly, I think it could have been done in a much less conspicuous way, or at least done much more tactfully, so as to not be a "Hey look, LESBIANS" moment.
Example:
In the series "The Flash" this season, there were several low-key references to Captain Singh's "husband" and it was done in such a low key manner that it felt very natural and not out of place. This culminated in the episode where we met Singh's "husband" when Singh was in the hospital injured, and the writers then used that moment for a teachable lesson about rights in regards to medical care.
That was very well done.
"House Pegh" wasn't. (at least in my opinion)
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
*goes back to playing Orion woman who wears a metal bikini all day, every day, to impress men*
I still love Orions
Meh.
So, please give REAL FACTUAL reasons why they, the TRIBBLE Klingon couple, should be a big deal.
True tekkies shouldn't give a damn about someone's sexual preference. If they do, then they are not embracing Rodenberry's ideas.
Nah, plenty of people in the other thread are worried about evil liberal agendas forcing their corrupt ideas into their children's minds. Odds are, if they let their kids play this game unsupervised, then they've already rolled Orions and figured out the hidden sexy dance emote. So, whatever.
Other people are convinced that it has to be "low key" for some reason (why?), or it detracts from the story somehow (how?), or that the story should be entirely about these two people we barely know being TRIBBLE at each other (because reasons).
I didn't see that at all. One was protective of the other, that's all. You could have replaced the word "mate" with "sister" and it'd be the same thing.
The Japanese samurai had shudō, a close, intimate relationship between an adult samurai male as the nenja and the younger apprentice as the wakashū.
Chinese emperors and other military and government officials were known to have same-sex relationships with their assistants in the Han, Tang, and Song Dynasties. Like Japan, there was really nothing unusual about it.
Given the bonds of companionship in Klingon culture, and strong sense of family presence, even for non-blood relatives (such as the Klingon Great Houses), and the comrades-in-arms trope seen in Kor, Kang, and Koloth -- it's very clear that close friendships and blood oaths are not only commonplace in Klingon society, it's a matter of honor.
The idea of these relationships bleeding over into romantic relationships should honestly not be seen as unusual, as the trials of combat and the reality of war often bring people closer together. It is not simply a matter of sexual preference, it is a matter of trust.
Honestly, I do not see why this should have ever been an issue for anybody.
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Why does it need to be "low key" or "natural"?
Because to do otherwise defeats the purpose of doing it in the first place. The point of the struggle for equal rights (be it based on race, gender, sexual orientation, etc) is not to be put up on a pedestal, or paraded around as a statement.
The point is to be treated EQUALLY, or no differently than anyone else.
When you do something like this, and make it a spectacle to be thrown in people's faces, that isn't treating gays and lesbians the same as anyone else. Instead, it's pointing a big old spotlight on it and saying "Hey look, we got TRIBBLE people! We're socially conscience!"
If I were TRIBBLE (which I am not) I honestly would be rather offended by the way these lesbians were trotted out simply to make a statement. It's the moral equivalent of the old "token black guy" trope.
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
^^ What M'tara said.
But Klingons? Preservers forbid.
It's a bunch of pixels. And you're not even being made to watch them lezz out.
Sometimes we have to be more blunt. Greeks and Romans. Greeks and Romans and their same-sex lovers. Alexander the Great. Emperor Hadrian. Even Sophocles.
As well, several other warrior societies sometimes had such partnering, such as the Spartans and Celts.
So warrior mates of the same gender is really not all that surprising, and has existed even in ancient times.
Correct. Which is why it confuses me that you insist that this issue needs to be tip-toed around like it was something naughty.
I mean, it's not like we avoid references to heterosexuality the same way. We're all about to go on a month-long vacation to the Planet of Casual Sex. There's an entire race of supermodel-hot bikini women. There's a mission revolving around selling a holographic sex slave.
They wanted to introduce some characters to be in House Pegh. Two of them were put in a relationship to flesh them out a tiny bit. That's not a "statement" if you don't consider the genders of the people involved. Having them chant TRIBBLE Pride slogans or making the mission about them would have been tokenism; this is just acknowledgement.
On the other hand...
This is the same Gene who couldn't bring himself to even acknowledge the possibility of same-sex relationships in Trek at all? (Read David Gerrold's saga of the would-be TNG episode "A Fire In the Blood" sometime.)
I would have mentioned that, but people are wanting some kind of precedent in Klingon society. Since Star Trek heavily used allegories and metaphors in the series to address real world issues, I related the Klingons to their closest real world allegory. Greece and Rome are more middle-east than far east, but your point is still very much valid.
Klingons are warriors. The ability to entrust your life in the hands of another person in the face of bloody conflict is something that has been shown on-screen in Star Trek, and in our ancient history from which the Klingons are heavily influenced by.
and on the other part: wtf isnt this totally wayne by now? (unles you are living in the bush or some otherwise left-behin-culture) its kind of ... nagging to have these discussions all around. i bet most people dont even disagree with lesbians, gays, ts whatever, they just feel nagged by the constant attention creep and complaining.
cant you just be happy that there IS a TRIBBLE klingon couple?
it seems its always about complaining. if games only cater heteronormative, you complain, then they make hs-couples, you complain as well, because its not the way "you want them to be shown". so wtf? i mean most couples on tv dont fit the real world. i didnt see anyone having a cinderella live, or kissing frogs or wtf.
And that's what happened in this episode IMO. They didn't pay too much attention to it. The Klingon that explained the mission just said something about one female Klingon and her 'mate'. The word 'TRIBBLE' wasn't even used. It was one line, indicating they're a couple. How else could he have said it? "Be careful, her sister is quite protective"? Clearly they're not sisters, they're a couple so it has to be mentioned once since you don't know these people.
If they hadn't mentioned it, you would have been facing the grumpy Klingon while you wanted to talk to the other one and they'd still have to mention it/explain the situation. Which would've meant that much more attention was paid to this non-issue.
As for the stereotype thing: they could've chosen two 'typically female lesbians' whatever that would've looked like, but then people would be complaining about that.
I feel they handled this well. It was mentioned once because you didn't know these people, no drama was involved, then you proceeded with the mission. That's the best way to deal with the issue of LGBT emancipation: do it subtle, don't give special attention to it if it has nothing to do with the story/situation/moment. Just like there would be no reason to mention several times that a male and a female Klingon are a couple, there wouldn't be any reason to do that when there's two lesbians involved. So they didn't. I say: well done Cryptic.
My opinion, as well.
It's my belief that this Episode was delayed just because of the Lesbians.
If there were doubts about their inclusion, they should have held off just dumping their "Lesbianism" in our laps...in a rather clumsy way.
One more thing:
The "Butch" thing was a little over the top.
Try to stay classy, guys.
RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev