One of the forum "super moderators" had the gall to post in the official thread that the LGBT couple was "inappropriate" because the game is rated "t for teen" and minors play it.
Frankly it's the most bigoted, insulting thing anyone posted in the whole thread.
The reference in this episode is really Teen worthy. There is nothing "Adult" about that part of the episode. My feeling about the relationship had to do with the portrayal of Klingon culture, not Human. It felt a out of place of me because it was something I had not expected from Klingons, but others on this thread have mentioned valid points where this relationship can be part of the Klingon culture without atypicalness.
The real "Adult" part of this game is scene in The Undying where Jensen is watching the dancer and stating he's in love, especially since the dancer is in trunks--if you are looking something "Adult" to identify in game.
You say 'shove in our face', I hear 'get back in the closet'. Not cool.
It's also not cool to presume you know what someone else is thinking. See my post right above yours. The fact is, kamuii2's post was so short that they did not explain what they really mean. I actually agree that I do not like to see "get a room" kind of PDA in public, whether it is a straight or TRIBBLE couple. But I also acknowledge *some* people have a double standard about what is "in your face" when it is a straight or TRIBBLE couple. So, let's let kamuii2 elaborate on what they mean before we assume one way or the other.
I've already stuck my neck way way out on this issue both here on the forum and in chat and twitter too. If it costs me my game-account so be it. Hopefully folks in charge realize that public opinion is directly related to profit.
Star Trek has always been a beacon of hope in a dismal reality. When Star Trek was first created we were at the height of a bitter civil-rights feud, we were practically at war with Russia, and women were running into certain rights issues as well. Star Trek came along and said "None of this matters. See here's a future where a Russian is a trusted member of the command staff. We have a woman as part of the command staff and she happens to be black as well." Granted it was written from a 1960s POV and was far from PERFECT, but it served as a beacon of hope. People cleaved to it, that message of hope. Someday, none of this petty nonsense will matter.
Those of us who are of non-standard sexuality also took a look at that message and thought "Hey if none of that other stuff matters, then there is hope for us as well!" Many of us... I can't speak for all of us... just want to be accepted as part of society. Not labeled. Not granted special privilege. We don't want to be called out every time we show affection in public -- hetros don't deal with that neither should we. I long for the day when I can introduce my spouse and not have it be "a thing." Heteros don't deal with that. I don't shield my eyes from hetero couples expressing affection nor do I rant about the hetero agenda being rammed down my face-holes.
Over the years Star Trek Online has turned into "kill all the not-us people in SPAAAAAAACE" with a focus on shooting, killing, damage-per-second and maximizing the rate at which you can melt targets down for in-game currency. The prevailing attitude has been one of "combat first, diplomacy last if ever." I can't recall the last time I saw Riker bust out the transphasic cyrometric inverted-tachyon-plasma flame-thrower for a mission. Can't recall Troi walking around with a bazooka... Hell it was a BIG DEAL when the Enterprise had to cut loose on a target.
I think that attitude carries over into the community -- if it's different kill it. Some of the chats I frequent are all about personal opinions and the cults that form around them -- if you are different you are not welcome.
It saddens me to realize this game has an anti-(group) representative, same way it saddens me when I stumble upon anti-religion RP down on Bajor. That's another story for another time, suffice to say the anti-faith/anti-religion RP is why I avoid DS9 and Bajor in-game as much as possible. Would rather hang out at Drozana during a Dental Party.
Lets step back and stop making an issue of the Klingon Kouple please. Frankly if people had just moved on past that we we wouldn't have outed certain people as anti-*, and some of us wouldn't be in the position of having to stand up for our way of life on a god*amn video-game forum.
As my friend over in England says "Lets move along now... step lively... good day to you."
This ? Issue ? means as much as a person here claiming to be a female
Nothing
Zip
Nada
Every character in this game is what it looks like for role playing purposes
Aliens are Aliens make your own story up for yours
A Human male is a Human male
A Klingon is a Klingon
On and On
Who they sleep with means nothing just like the sex of the character , It tells a story if you take time to write it up for role play...nothing more or less
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Good thing it's not being shoved in your face in this story, then, isn't it?
Velqua, the fact that you think "aggression" and "masculinity" are irretrievably synonymous says more about you than Klingons, I think.
Sle, that's not really a good example - apparently we're keeping the soft-canon idea that Andorian marriages involve four members, due to a rather complex reproductive method (that frequently threatens their species' very existence, which tells us that either the pattern is common on Andoria, or there is a dearth of competitors for the position of apex predator). Sure, it's an example of sorts, but the gent you cite in the Orion nightclub on Nimbus III is a better one, IMO.
Human society and the media have portrayed the two as synonymous for a very long time. Just because I approached the Klingon culture with this view--especially when there is sufficient visual references in TV shows and movies--does not mean that is my complete personal view of Human beings. Klingons are a warrior class; most Klingon characters in the Star Trek universe express aggression and masculinity as something to be revered. This is part of their culture--as written by the writers of the show--so I view them as such, especially in the context of war. However, they do possess the trait of honor and loyalty, which I do not ignore. My first impressions, when it comes to Klingon characters, tends to focus on the aggressiveness and masculinity attributes rather than the honor and loyalty virtues.
I agree. However, someone made a good point once that I had not really thought much about before, but now realize it is true.
The point was that a lot of the times, when people say "shove it it our face" like you did, all they are really talking about is the *normal* things that straight couples do. Have pictures of their partners on their desk at work, a hug or kiss(brief, not prolonged) in public, etc. For many people, they pay absolutely no attention when a straight couple does those things, but when a TRIBBLE couple does them they think it is "shoving it in their face".
To be clear, I do not like to see the kind of "get a room" displays from ANY couples in public; whether they are straight or TRIBBLE makes no difference. However, I do agree that there is a double standard between what is considered "normal behavior" for a straight couple vs a TRIBBLE couple.
I do agree that there is a huge double standard when it comes to that. It would be nice to work out a balance where everyone agreed upon what is acceptable conduct and what is not acceptable conduct in the setting where people interact. Granted, it is very ideal, but it is something that everyone should work at as a whole, even in the storyline of a game.
I do agree that there is a huge double standard when it comes to that. It would be nice to work out a balance where everyone agreed upon what is acceptable conduct and what is not acceptable conduct in the setting where people interact. Granted, it is very ideal, but it is something that everyone should work at as a whole, even in the storyline of a game.
Well, you will never be able to get everyone to agree on any subject. But whatever each individual person's standard is on PDA, they should just try to apply that standard equally to both straight and TRIBBLE couples.
I think its a bit of a stretch for people to even get bent out of shape with this topic.
Just because the previous cultural design of the klingons hasn't ever included such things doesnt mean it cant change.
accept it.
I have no issue with acceptance. I felt that it was out-of-character for Klingons since I hadn't been aware of any instance in the TV show or movies regarding Klingons take on diversity. This thread has provided references and points of view that indicated that this relationship would be within the constraints of the Klingon culture. If it had been Orion women, I would not have thought it to be out-of-character. Klingons come from a warrior class and feudal society, which I thought would frown upon such relationships to the point they would not exists among them. It is good to know that Klingons can be just as diverse as other species in the Star Trek universe.
There is no issue or "controversy" with same-sex couples anymore, sorry.
That is your opinion, which is fine. However, TRIBBLE marriage is not even LEGAL in some states. So, yeah there is still a "controversy" until that actually happens.
That is your opinion, which is fine. However, TRIBBLE marriage is not even LEGAL in some states. So, yeah there is still a "controversy" until that actually happens.
It was not legal to marry minorities in many states until the Supreme Court act of 1967. The wheel turns slowly.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I think it is awesome that your country really cares about things that put them on the wrong side of history.
But it needs to be put to rest for the rest of he people who don't get effected by other people's preferences.
weak writing, sure. But representation matters.
That is your opinion, which is fine. However, TRIBBLE marriage is not even LEGAL in some states. So, yeah there is still a "controversy" until that actually happens.
There are also countries on this planet where women are not allowed to drive an automobile...that should in theory mean that there should be a massive controversy regarding female starship helmsmen then right?
There are also countries on this planet where women are not allowed to drive an automobile...that should in theory mean that there should be a massive controversy regarding female starship helmsmen then right?
Come on. Last week I was told by someone I could not have an Asian helmsman because Asians drive bad. Now this week I cannot have a female helmsman? It is getting to hard to play this game.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
There are also countries on this planet where women are not allowed to drive an automobile...that should in theory mean that there should be a massive controversy regarding female starship helmsmen then right?
In those countries, there very well may be. I don't know, because I don't live there. The point is, you can't presume that just because something is not "controversial" to YOU, or where you LIVE that is is not to other people or elsewhere. So relating to this topic and what I said, the fact that TRIBBLE marriage is not even LEGAL in some states means the subject is quite obviously still controversial to some. If it weren't, we wouldn't even be having this discussion, and it would be legal everywhere.
Also, please note that I am simply stating a FACT, not voicing any opposition to the subject or saying it *should* be controversial.
This is the same excuse used to oppose sex education in schools, but the parents who raise the most heck about it either don't provide sex education to their children at all, or they fail miserably. If they don't want their children "exposed" to it, then they should more closely monitor their children's online activity. I don't see that happening anytime soon, as long as they can use the internet as a babysitter so they don't have to bother themselves with raising their children properly.
While I agree parents should be more interested in what their children is doing it is still the parents responsibility to teach their children or make sure they are taught. If not the parents are failing not the children. Bottom line is there are to many parents today that are not involved with their children's development. We could go on for hours explaining why so many parents are failing there children.
All the more reason to have it in the game. Some parents ought to explain it, like so many other things that they don't want to explain. Insulating the child from the world is not doing the child any favors. But of course, many would have to come to understand something themselves first before they would be able to explain it.
Why i am not one to insulate a child there are proper times in kids life to explain things. True a child/teenager playing STO should have enough education and and common sense to handle social subjects and if they dont the parents havefailed the child.
it is; kids are asexual. they learn/acquire a sexuality later; but true, homosexuality is not a choice, but a natural path for some persons.
I am not saying it is a choice but I dont think people are born Homosexual. IF they were it would lead me to believe there is some genetics involved? Hence would be debunked when a set of identical twins were one is homosexual and the other is not. Don't get me wrong I dont know what causes one to be or not to be, but I dont think people are born homosexual.
I am not saying it is a choice but I dont think people are born Homosexual. IF they were it would lead me to believe there is some genetics involved? Hence would be debunked when a set of identical twins were one is homosexual and the other is not. Don't get me wrong I dont know what causes one to be or not to be, but I dont think people are born homosexual.
I am TRIBBLE and this has my stamp of approval!
I was heavily influenced by the culture around me more than anything else.
But I think this thread is totally derailed from any somewhat useful topic now.
The story of House Pegh is practically a copy of my Klingon main character, Beidra, and her fleet's/House Do'Chun's 5yr old back story:
Created at the time of the Hur'q invasion, matriarchal, a secret House (basically a Klingon version of Section 31), they don't believe in sacrificing everyone unless absolutely necessary for overall victory, they have agents in the least likeliest places, and they are the true heroes of STO.
Personally, I think my characters are better. They don't hold back when killing is necessary, and one of them is a genetic manipulator. This is what we did when we had no stories on KDF side - we made our own. Nice to see Cryptic play catch up.
I am not saying it is a choice but I dont think people are born Homosexual. IF they were it would lead me to believe there is some genetics involved? Hence would be debunked when a set of identical twins were one is homosexual and the other is not. Don't get me wrong I dont know what causes one to be or not to be, but I dont think people are born homosexual.
What a load of. . . . . .
as a TRIBBLE man myself I would not choose to be TRIBBLE.
being TRIBBLE means I have had to put up with ridicule, hate, bigotry, being made to feel "not normal", face the prospect of loosing love ones when you come out, adverse attitudes in the work place . . . the list goes on.
It took a lot when growing up to accept I was born this way and to live with who and what I am and I don't need anyone telling me I chose to be this way when I didn't.
I sometimes think to myself what if I was straight what would my life have been like would I have kids etc by now. . .
Sorry but your wrong and yes its your opinion but your opinion is nothing more than adding wood to a fire to make a more flames in an already hotly debated topic on here.
Point being anyone who has had issues accepting their own sexuallty will potentially read that and may think something like OK maybe I'm not normal etc and that's bad.
I am not saying it is a choice but I dont think people are born Homosexual. IF they were it would lead me to believe there is some genetics involved? Hence would be debunked when a set of identical twins were one is homosexual and the other is not. Don't get me wrong I dont know what causes one to be or not to be, but I dont think people are born homosexual.
From what I've read it's a combined thing that involves both genetics and a certain amount of different hormones during gestation.
That's why it can happen to one twin and not to another.
The thing is that if homosexuality were a choice, then so would be heterosexuality.
And then the honest question any "straight" man or woman should ask themself is "when did I decide I like the opposite sex more?"
I have yet to meet someone who could answer that because...it just doesn't work that way.:)
I am TRIBBLE and this has my stamp of approval!
I was heavily influenced by the culture around me more than anything else.
But I think this thread is totally derailed from any somewhat useful topic now.
I agree this thread has been high jacked and I am just as much to blame as anyone else. I am glad to see most of us in here can have a civilized discussion on social subjects.
From what I've read it's a combined thing that involves both genetics and a certain amount of different hormones during gestation.
That's why it can happen to one twin and not to another.
The thing is that if homosexuality were a choice, then so would be heterosexuality.
And then the honest question any "straight" man or woman should ask themself is "when did I decide I like the opposite sex more?"
I have yet to meet someone who could answer that because...it just doesn't work that way.:)
I dont think it is a choice, lets face it, there are to many mean spirited people out there and who in there right mind would want to bring that type of persecution on themselves. That being said if it was genetic and because so it should be passed down to offspring, since homosexuals can't have children with out outside help, the gene would have passed died out because it would not have had the chance to move on from generation to generation. Like I said I dont know why, but poeple are who they are and we should not belittle people because they are different, we should treat everyone as equals.
That is your opinion, which is fine. However, TRIBBLE marriage is not even LEGAL in some states. So, yeah there is still a "controversy" until that actually happens.
Well this is going to get me some flame but I dont mind being that guy. LGBT dont want marriage, they want the rights bestowed on them as everyone else has that is married. I am a firm believer that marriage is a religious institute that joins a man and a woman. That being said since homosexuals dont want to be married to the opposite sex they dont want marriage. They do deserve the same rights that an married couple has. they deserved to see there loved one on theirdealth bead, they deserve to get tax right off the same as married couple, they deserve to have same beniefits that a married couple has. That being said I see marriage as a religious institute and since so man ypoeple preach the seperaation of church and state, there should be no laws referring or granting rights to marriage.
I am not saying it is a choice but I dont think people are born Homosexual. IF they were it would lead me to believe there is some genetics involved? Hence would be debunked when a set of identical twins were one is homosexual and the other is not. Don't get me wrong I dont know what causes one to be or not to be, but I dont think people are born homosexual.
And I believe that if I eat spinache I will be big and strong like Popeye. But I have no evidence to support my claim so I won't be preaching it.
I'm so glad STO has so few problems with it that we can devote so much player energy to the outrage over the sexual preference of NPCs, and the outrage over the players who outrage over it.
Truly, we have our priorities in order.
EXACTLY! I play STO to escape the current downtrodden state of society... I'd be lying if I said it didn't TRIBBLE me off when I have to see political activists and organizations throwing their weight around in a video game. The ridiculousness stands for itself. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the idea of TRIBBLE relationships in video games but it is FAR FAR away from being any sort of priority.
EXACTLY! I play STO to escape the current downtrodden state of society... I'd be lying if I said it didn't TRIBBLE me off when I have to see political activists and organizations throwing their weight around in a video game. The ridiculousness stands for itself. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the idea of TRIBBLE relationships in video games but it is FAR FAR away from being any sort of priority.
The problem with this worldview is that it fails to realize that NOT including LGBT relationships is exactly as pandering to a political agenda as including them is.
Comments
You say 'shove in our face', I hear 'get back in the closet'. Not cool.
The reference in this episode is really Teen worthy. There is nothing "Adult" about that part of the episode. My feeling about the relationship had to do with the portrayal of Klingon culture, not Human. It felt a out of place of me because it was something I had not expected from Klingons, but others on this thread have mentioned valid points where this relationship can be part of the Klingon culture without atypicalness.
The real "Adult" part of this game is scene in The Undying where Jensen is watching the dancer and stating he's in love, especially since the dancer is in trunks--if you are looking something "Adult" to identify in game.
It's also not cool to presume you know what someone else is thinking. See my post right above yours. The fact is, kamuii2's post was so short that they did not explain what they really mean. I actually agree that I do not like to see "get a room" kind of PDA in public, whether it is a straight or TRIBBLE couple. But I also acknowledge *some* people have a double standard about what is "in your face" when it is a straight or TRIBBLE couple. So, let's let kamuii2 elaborate on what they mean before we assume one way or the other.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Star Trek has always been a beacon of hope in a dismal reality. When Star Trek was first created we were at the height of a bitter civil-rights feud, we were practically at war with Russia, and women were running into certain rights issues as well. Star Trek came along and said "None of this matters. See here's a future where a Russian is a trusted member of the command staff. We have a woman as part of the command staff and she happens to be black as well." Granted it was written from a 1960s POV and was far from PERFECT, but it served as a beacon of hope. People cleaved to it, that message of hope. Someday, none of this petty nonsense will matter.
Those of us who are of non-standard sexuality also took a look at that message and thought "Hey if none of that other stuff matters, then there is hope for us as well!" Many of us... I can't speak for all of us... just want to be accepted as part of society. Not labeled. Not granted special privilege. We don't want to be called out every time we show affection in public -- hetros don't deal with that neither should we. I long for the day when I can introduce my spouse and not have it be "a thing." Heteros don't deal with that. I don't shield my eyes from hetero couples expressing affection nor do I rant about the hetero agenda being rammed down my face-holes.
Over the years Star Trek Online has turned into "kill all the not-us people in SPAAAAAAACE" with a focus on shooting, killing, damage-per-second and maximizing the rate at which you can melt targets down for in-game currency. The prevailing attitude has been one of "combat first, diplomacy last if ever." I can't recall the last time I saw Riker bust out the transphasic cyrometric inverted-tachyon-plasma flame-thrower for a mission. Can't recall Troi walking around with a bazooka... Hell it was a BIG DEAL when the Enterprise had to cut loose on a target.
I think that attitude carries over into the community -- if it's different kill it. Some of the chats I frequent are all about personal opinions and the cults that form around them -- if you are different you are not welcome.
It saddens me to realize this game has an anti-(group) representative, same way it saddens me when I stumble upon anti-religion RP down on Bajor. That's another story for another time, suffice to say the anti-faith/anti-religion RP is why I avoid DS9 and Bajor in-game as much as possible. Would rather hang out at Drozana during a Dental Party.
Lets step back and stop making an issue of the Klingon Kouple please. Frankly if people had just moved on past that we we wouldn't have outed certain people as anti-*, and some of us wouldn't be in the position of having to stand up for our way of life on a god*amn video-game forum.
As my friend over in England says "Lets move along now... step lively... good day to you."
Nothing
Zip
Nada
Every character in this game is what it looks like for role playing purposes
Aliens are Aliens make your own story up for yours
A Human male is a Human male
A Klingon is a Klingon
On and On
Who they sleep with means nothing just like the sex of the character , It tells a story if you take time to write it up for role play...nothing more or less
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Human society and the media have portrayed the two as synonymous for a very long time. Just because I approached the Klingon culture with this view--especially when there is sufficient visual references in TV shows and movies--does not mean that is my complete personal view of Human beings. Klingons are a warrior class; most Klingon characters in the Star Trek universe express aggression and masculinity as something to be revered. This is part of their culture--as written by the writers of the show--so I view them as such, especially in the context of war. However, they do possess the trait of honor and loyalty, which I do not ignore. My first impressions, when it comes to Klingon characters, tends to focus on the aggressiveness and masculinity attributes rather than the honor and loyalty virtues.
Just because the previous cultural design of the klingons hasn't ever included such things doesnt mean it cant change.
accept it.
I do agree that there is a huge double standard when it comes to that. It would be nice to work out a balance where everyone agreed upon what is acceptable conduct and what is not acceptable conduct in the setting where people interact. Granted, it is very ideal, but it is something that everyone should work at as a whole, even in the storyline of a game.
Well, you will never be able to get everyone to agree on any subject. But whatever each individual person's standard is on PDA, they should just try to apply that standard equally to both straight and TRIBBLE couples.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I have no issue with acceptance. I felt that it was out-of-character for Klingons since I hadn't been aware of any instance in the TV show or movies regarding Klingons take on diversity. This thread has provided references and points of view that indicated that this relationship would be within the constraints of the Klingon culture. If it had been Orion women, I would not have thought it to be out-of-character. Klingons come from a warrior class and feudal society, which I thought would frown upon such relationships to the point they would not exists among them. It is good to know that Klingons can be just as diverse as other species in the Star Trek universe.
That is your opinion, which is fine. However, TRIBBLE marriage is not even LEGAL in some states. So, yeah there is still a "controversy" until that actually happens.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I agree completely. But that doesn't change my point at all.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
But it needs to be put to rest for the rest of he people who don't get effected by other people's preferences.
weak writing, sure. But representation matters.
There are also countries on this planet where women are not allowed to drive an automobile...that should in theory mean that there should be a massive controversy regarding female starship helmsmen then right?
In those countries, there very well may be. I don't know, because I don't live there. The point is, you can't presume that just because something is not "controversial" to YOU, or where you LIVE that is is not to other people or elsewhere. So relating to this topic and what I said, the fact that TRIBBLE marriage is not even LEGAL in some states means the subject is quite obviously still controversial to some. If it weren't, we wouldn't even be having this discussion, and it would be legal everywhere.
Also, please note that I am simply stating a FACT, not voicing any opposition to the subject or saying it *should* be controversial.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
While I agree parents should be more interested in what their children is doing it is still the parents responsibility to teach their children or make sure they are taught. If not the parents are failing not the children. Bottom line is there are to many parents today that are not involved with their children's development. We could go on for hours explaining why so many parents are failing there children.
Why i am not one to insulate a child there are proper times in kids life to explain things. True a child/teenager playing STO should have enough education and and common sense to handle social subjects and if they dont the parents havefailed the child.
I am not saying it is a choice but I dont think people are born Homosexual. IF they were it would lead me to believe there is some genetics involved? Hence would be debunked when a set of identical twins were one is homosexual and the other is not. Don't get me wrong I dont know what causes one to be or not to be, but I dont think people are born homosexual.
I am TRIBBLE and this has my stamp of approval!
I was heavily influenced by the culture around me more than anything else.
But I think this thread is totally derailed from any somewhat useful topic now.
Created at the time of the Hur'q invasion, matriarchal, a secret House (basically a Klingon version of Section 31), they don't believe in sacrificing everyone unless absolutely necessary for overall victory, they have agents in the least likeliest places, and they are the true heroes of STO.
Personally, I think my characters are better. They don't hold back when killing is necessary, and one of them is a genetic manipulator. This is what we did when we had no stories on KDF side - we made our own. Nice to see Cryptic play catch up.
:cool:
What a load of. . . . . .
as a TRIBBLE man myself I would not choose to be TRIBBLE.
being TRIBBLE means I have had to put up with ridicule, hate, bigotry, being made to feel "not normal", face the prospect of loosing love ones when you come out, adverse attitudes in the work place . . . the list goes on.
It took a lot when growing up to accept I was born this way and to live with who and what I am and I don't need anyone telling me I chose to be this way when I didn't.
I sometimes think to myself what if I was straight what would my life have been like would I have kids etc by now. . .
Sorry but your wrong and yes its your opinion but your opinion is nothing more than adding wood to a fire to make a more flames in an already hotly debated topic on here.
Point being anyone who has had issues accepting their own sexuallty will potentially read that and may think something like OK maybe I'm not normal etc and that's bad.
From what I've read it's a combined thing that involves both genetics and a certain amount of different hormones during gestation.
That's why it can happen to one twin and not to another.
The thing is that if homosexuality were a choice, then so would be heterosexuality.
And then the honest question any "straight" man or woman should ask themself is "when did I decide I like the opposite sex more?"
I have yet to meet someone who could answer that because...it just doesn't work that way.:)
I agree this thread has been high jacked and I am just as much to blame as anyone else. I am glad to see most of us in here can have a civilized discussion on social subjects.
I dont think it is a choice, lets face it, there are to many mean spirited people out there and who in there right mind would want to bring that type of persecution on themselves. That being said if it was genetic and because so it should be passed down to offspring, since homosexuals can't have children with out outside help, the gene would have passed died out because it would not have had the chance to move on from generation to generation. Like I said I dont know why, but poeple are who they are and we should not belittle people because they are different, we should treat everyone as equals.
Well this is going to get me some flame but I dont mind being that guy. LGBT dont want marriage, they want the rights bestowed on them as everyone else has that is married. I am a firm believer that marriage is a religious institute that joins a man and a woman. That being said since homosexuals dont want to be married to the opposite sex they dont want marriage. They do deserve the same rights that an married couple has. they deserved to see there loved one on theirdealth bead, they deserve to get tax right off the same as married couple, they deserve to have same beniefits that a married couple has. That being said I see marriage as a religious institute and since so man ypoeple preach the seperaation of church and state, there should be no laws referring or granting rights to marriage.
And I believe that if I eat spinache I will be big and strong like Popeye. But I have no evidence to support my claim so I won't be preaching it.
EXACTLY! I play STO to escape the current downtrodden state of society... I'd be lying if I said it didn't TRIBBLE me off when I have to see political activists and organizations throwing their weight around in a video game. The ridiculousness stands for itself. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the idea of TRIBBLE relationships in video games but it is FAR FAR away from being any sort of priority.
The problem with this worldview is that it fails to realize that NOT including LGBT relationships is exactly as pandering to a political agenda as including them is.