Older than both of you, not that that means anything here--and she's right. You may not have enough experience with other online games to be aware of this, but the leveling curve in most other MMOs and the degree of endgame grind that is present in them are far, far more intensive and time-consuming than here. That is not an opinion--it is an objective fact that can be verified by anyone who has put a comparable amount of time and effort into, say, WoW or EQ2 or EVE.
Except it's not if you don't count raiding, which isn't the bulk of what people actually DO at endgame in WoW. Something like 5% of WoW endgame players raid.
So if you're comparing the endgame as people actually play it, WoW's is a lot freer and lighter.
Leveling has always been too fast and too easy in this game. The early levels are especially stupid. You hardly even get a chance to fly your ship before you're on to the next tier and a new ship.
I have not done any XP grinding what-so-ever and I'm at Level 55 and I'm not even through 4 of the episode story arcs.
The only thing that's not too fast is getting spec points once you're at level 60- now that takes a long time. But to get to 60 itself should probably take 3 times as long.
Leveling has always been too fast and too easy in this game. The early levels are especially stupid. You hardly even get a chance to fly your ship before you're on to the next tier and a new ship.
I have not done any XP grinding what-so-ever and I'm at Level 55 and I'm not even through 4 of the episode story arcs.
The only thing that's not too fast is getting spec points once you're at level 60- now that takes a long time. But to get to 60 itself should probably take 3 times as long.
Being stuck with the no-turn slower-than-a-tricycle Miranda any longer than we already are would not be a good way to entice new players to stick with the game.
Any don't worry about running out of story arcs. You'll hit the wall around 58. Even with Delta missions.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
I have not done any XP grinding what-so-ever and I'm at Level 55 and I'm not even through 4 of the episode story arcs.
Interesting. I played my Delta Recruit up to the end of the Breen episode (i.e, the end of the 40 DR "goals"). Did a little doffing, and a few of the Cardassian arc missions were done during the bonus XP week. Made it to.... level 52 or 53? So I'm guessing you must have done something extra (patrols? Foundry? Alerts? STFs?) to be lv55 and only in the 4th episode.
But to get to 60 itself should probably take 3 times as long.
Of course, we'd need three times the content for that to work.
First, I'm female. Second, I'm actually completely serious and not baiting anything or anyone. I really am Level 52 and not even done with the Cardassian storyline (have one episode left in it).
I'm old school. I was born in 1980. I grew up playing Final Fantasy, Dragon Warrior, and Ultima. D&D0, no hand holding in games at all, and true challenges.
Now the challenge is easy to get in this game by turning difficulty to Elite, but I still feel like I'm not EARNING anything. I gain skill points too fast and don't get to savor a new rank for as long as I'd like to. Level 60 doesn't feel like an accomplishment now because 1-50 was SO SO SO fast. For the first 20 levels, I gained one after every single mission. It just seems out of whack.
Why are people obsessed with speed now? Gotta do everything faster. I wanna stop and smell the roses. If the changes I suggested aren't good for all people, it should at least be a character option to halve skill point gains (or turn it off altogether). Even if the skill points don't change, I absolutely believe the ranks should. The current ranks make zero sense. Rear Admiral Lower Half is stupid and goes against canon, and Fleet Admiral at 60 just makes me think "too many cooks in the kitchen". Or maybe Advanced will be like now, with Elite giving 25% more.
Honestly, if I go deeper into my suggestion, I would halve skill gains on Normal mode, down 25% in Advanced, and current amounts on Elite since Elite currently doesn't really reward you extra at all (I ran the same mission on both Normal and Elite and there was almost no difference in the loot).
Your level 52. You haven't even hit "The Wall" yet that starts around lvl 54-55. You may think levelling is fast at this point and honestly, up until you get where you are, is does move fairly well.
When you do hit The Wall, from then on, you will begin to lose your sense of progression since it will become a crawl. You will begin to notice that while the early levels moved your XP bar pretty rapidly, post-55 it will be barely moving. Doff missions that once seemed a nice boost will hardly move you forward. You will begin to notice how little xp is actually be available to progress. At 60 and beyond, unless you grind 4-5 hours a day, it will take many months to even gain one specialization point. Any alts you play will fall by the wayside as you try to keep up with just one character.
Levelling is imbalanced for sure. The issue for you is, up until now, you think it should be halved. At 60 and beyond, you'll be begging for it to be tripled based on how slowly that XP bar is moving.
I always thought a nice way to get use out of lower level ships would be to allow players to make there own PvP rooms. I really don't care if leveling is too fast as we're stuck with 8000 other things to grind for. But if u want to use old ships we should be able to create rooms and set parameters like Commander LvL ships only (for example). It would be nice to have a reason to take out my old connie on a toon other than to cherry pick the TOS phasers off of it.
Once you get used to that you will be ok,now on the other hand if you are part of this part generation...let me explain.
This generation is the one that brought us instant level 90 characters in WoW and other absurd changes in mmo mechanics,always complaining,always something wrong with the game and blah blah blah.
Now that is what im reffering to as this generation,think of it this way...there are no raids in STO, endgame content is basically farming to upgrade your gear,and even like a poster said in other thread there is no need to go over MK XII...so let me ask you this,why the hurry?
Going to reach 60 and be bored out of your mind so why dont enjoy the ride.
Give me two options:
a)Route 66 in 2 months enjoying the ride and the view
b)Route 66 in 2 days and driving my harley 24/7
As a veteran both in the mmo world and in age i would go with option a)
Now on the other hand the new spoiled gamer brats of this generation would go with option b)
P.S: Just so im clear im not calling you a brat,just talking in general.
As veteran of mmo grind myself, it doesn't have to be about the grind especially level grind which in nearly every mmo I have played since I started with everquest has generally been uninteresting. Sure you get new more powerful spells or abilities/stats. But to be honest it's not interesting or makes me feel like i accomplished anything except waste a bunch of time.
But what has made me feel that thrill of accomplishment, has been exception hard and interesting combat/encounter mechanics, in some dungeons and raids. So for me the end game is the part were i feel the most fun.
It has nothing to be with being spoiled, it has to do with differing views of what is fun, progression is only fun to me when I feel challenged and not a repetitive grind with very little meaningful progression, especially now that I have less and a less time for some mmo's version of progression.
It all has to do with how, you do it. TBH the biggest failure of delta rising was that sto veteran's due to having done all the content till delta rising, didn't have enough exp to get to 60 without grinding the same content over and over. While some people have the Patience, for that out of their games not everyone does, and it's not a generational thing. Some like me are just fed up with meaningless grind, and the feeling that your just a rat on wheel frantically trying to get the cheese that doesn't seem any closer no matter how many hours you sink into it.
The next bit is that the skill rewards in this game were not tuned very well for the specialization system, with no clear way to grind this reward system efficiently. Like the rep system or even the fleet system.
<center><font size="+5"><b>Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day... Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life...</b></size></center>
Sorry about the necro in the old thread, I've made a new one.
The speed is WAY (and I mean WAY WAY WAY) too fast. I only used my Doffs and did the story missions, and I'm Level 52 without even being done with the Cardassian storyline.
I think everything is too fast, truth be told. I feel like I only get to be a Lieutenant and other ranks for a couple of days real time before my next promotion. I feel cheated and cheap and I get to be a Fleet Admiral, the highest rank in Starfleet, at Level 60. Star Trek is not like [other] MMORPGs and shouldn't be thought of as one. I would personally suggest the following changes:
First, halve he amount of XP given by EVERYTHING. Mobs, missions, Doffs, everything. Halve it. Then you change the ranks a bit. For one, Rear Admiral Lower Half IS NOT A REAL RANK in STAR TREK, get rid of it and change it to what it's supposed to be according to the shows: Commodore. Then divide them as such:
In addition, there should be actual challenging quests for the promotions from Commodore onward. Keep the level limit at 60 for now, but the ranks above Level 60 can be used for further expansions in the future
its bad enough as it is, adding more ranks wont change a thing, it will merely prolong the suffering of the instant gratification playerbase.
First, I'm female. Second, I'm actually completely serious and not baiting anything or anyone. I really am Level 52 and not even done with the Cardassian storyline (have one episode left in it).
I'm old school. I was born in 1980. I grew up playing Final Fantasy, Dragon Warrior, and Ultima. D&D0, no hand holding in games at all, and true challenges.
Now the challenge is easy to get in this game by turning difficulty to Elite, but I still feel like I'm not EARNING anything. I gain skill points too fast and don't get to savor a new rank for as long as I'd like to. Level 60 doesn't feel like an accomplishment now because 1-50 was SO SO SO fast. For the first 20 levels, I gained one after every single mission. It just seems out of whack.
Why are people obsessed with speed now? Gotta do everything faster. I wanna stop and smell the roses. If the changes I suggested aren't good for all people, it should at least be a character option to halve skill point gains (or turn it off altogether). Even if the skill points don't change, I absolutely believe the ranks should. The current ranks make zero sense. Rear Admiral Lower Half is stupid and goes against canon, and Fleet Admiral at 60 just makes me think "too many cooks in the kitchen". Or maybe Advanced will be like now, with Elite giving 25% more.
Honestly, if I go deeper into my suggestion, I would halve skill gains on Normal mode, down 25% in Advanced, and current amounts on Elite since Elite currently doesn't really reward you extra at all (I ran the same mission on both Normal and Elite and there was almost no difference in the loot).
what is being female got to do with anything on playing mmo games?
so what if you done this or that, i came up through sim racing before retiring from it back before 2010.
But i play this game originally to have some fun and just to put it into prospective, on swtor i spend more time there leveling up and doing content, because it has a strong storyline to it rather than worrying too much about grinding levels to much.
Being stuck with the no-turn slower-than-a-tricycle Miranda any longer than we already are would not be a good way to entice new players to stick with the game.
Any don't worry about running out of story arcs. You'll hit the wall around 58. Even with Delta missions.
DO NOT dis the miranda class. :P
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
With you on this one. While some foundry missing are fun, tend to be quite clunky. Not the authors fault, just is what it is.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
I agree, although I was thinking more how the top Foundry missions may have nothing to do with the actual storyline being told in the game.
I personally do not believe most of the missions need to be tied to the overall storyline of the game. Most of Trek on TV has been episodic in nature - the ships went from place to place and encountered different things. If people want more "exploration" in STO then they are also going to need to accept that it is going to require the game to step outside of its current storyline.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I personally do not believe most of the missions need to be tied to the overall storyline of the game. Most of Trek on TV has been episodic in nature - the ships went from place to place and encountered different things. If people want more "exploration" in STO then they are also going to need to accept that it is going to require the game to step outside of its current storyline.
Heck even the ones that were arc heavy or somewhat arc heavy near the end did random stories that weren't part of the arc.
That's your opinion and it's fine. It is what the Foundry is for after all. Personally, I like being immersed in the story with some degree of continuity and don't want to be running through missions which have little or nothing to do with that.
Then you must have really disliked all of TOS, all of TNG, half of DS9, most of VOY, and most of ENT because it was primarily episodic with no inter-connecting storylines.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
The speed is WAY (and I mean WAY WAY WAY) too fast. I only used my Doffs and did the story missions, and I'm Level 52 without even being done with the Cardassian storyline.
Your joking right? I Because I not sure if you mean this or just pulling our legs. I mean i really am not sure.
1 to 50 was ment to be easy that way people can play the end game content, like STF's. But 50 to 60 is only heel of a grind and your find the Cardassian missions will get maybe a few levels if you look at the amount they give. Infact you may find you have a problem later when you try to get the specialization schools filled out.
Just wait and see how long it will take you to get all 4 Specialization trees complete... Just wait and see, honestly.
This most definitely, heck I haven't even completed a single full specialization yet on any character and, more was recently added within months of each other.
Decrease all level requirements from level 51-60 missions down to level 50. Leave L60 requirements to Elite STFs alone.
Story is story. You want to enjoy them at your leisure, not have to grind patrols and other content in-between because you don't have the required level. This is frustrating and alienates people.
Unfortunately, story missions are among the largest sources of XP in this game. Which I strongly feel that it's wrong and should be addressed, hopefully without hurting progression even more.
May I remind you that throwing insulting comments around -- including insinuating that people are trolling -- is against forum rules.
If someone posts a comment that violates forum rules, please report it. Do not respond to, or quote it.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
I personally do not believe most of the missions need to be tied to the overall storyline of the game. Most of Trek on TV has been episodic in nature - the ships went from place to place and encountered different things. If people want more "exploration" in STO then they are also going to need to accept that it is going to require the game to step outside of its current storyline.
The universe is a big place, Is there only a single story in the world around us? I think not. Having only a single story in a game makes the game feel small.
I love that the first page of this forum has a thread complaining about leveling too quickly, AND a thread about how there needs to be double xp because leveling is too slow.
Once you get used to that you will be ok,now on the other hand if you are part of this part generation...let me explain.
This generation is the one that brought us instant level 90 characters in WoW and other absurd changes in mmo mechanics,always complaining,always something wrong with the game and blah blah blah.
Now that is what im reffering to as this generation,think of it this way...there are no raids in STO, endgame content is basically farming to upgrade your gear,and even like a poster said in other thread there is no need to go over MK XII...so let me ask you this,why the hurry?
Going to reach 60 and be bored out of your mind so why dont enjoy the ride.
Give me two options:
a)Route 66 in 2 months enjoying the ride and the view
b)Route 66 in 2 days and driving my harley 24/7
As a veteran both in the mmo world and in age i would go with option a)
Now on the other hand the new spoiled gamer brats of this generation would go with option b)
P.S: Just so im clear im not calling you a brat,just talking in general.
I agree and disagree with this plasma.
you are right about the whole brat generation but I believe that its not a matter of simply new generations of people turning up.
MMO's have become vastly more popular over the years (outside of wow) A lot of the time the hardcore players have no problem with the way MMO's have been so grind heavy but with so many new people turning up and them not being used to it and might I add many of them being casual players you cannot expect them to not be unhappy with the product they've just invested in and find out that the "ride" isnt as enjoyable as they were led to believe.
the level boost in WoW is an anomaly. one I completely hate. But its only one game, yeah its a hallmark for MMO's but every MMO is different. The grind is fine so long as the grind doesn't turn into a chore. Thats what grinding in STO has become.
MMO's have become vastly more popular over the years (outside of wow) A lot of the time the hardcore players have no problem with the way MMO's have been so grind heavy but with so many new people turning up and them not being used to it and might I add many of them being casual players you cannot expect them to not be unhappy with the product they've just invested in and find out that the "ride" isnt as enjoyable as they were led to believe.
When MMORPGs started (I count MU[D|SHe]s as a different beast), Meridan 59, UO, EQ, if you had a computer and played games on it you were sort of hardcore anyways. Being a no-life raider was sort of indistinguishable from your normal routine.
Now that even grandma plays games on the computer (beyond Solitaire), the gaming crowd has become less hardcore because you no longer need to be hardcore just to be playing. Wildstar tried to pander to the ultra-hardcore no-life raider of the turn of the century and look what it got them.
Are there new dyed-in-the-wool no-life hardcore raiders out there? Certainly. Are they a major segment of the market? Not really. Are there other choices for the more casual players out there so they don't have to choose a hardcore game to use as a chat client while missing most of the game? Yup.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Seriously, this game does not need to be all about endgame. I WANT this game to be different, that's what I love about it. If I want hard rep grinds, I'll go play WoW. If I wanna raid, I'll go play RIFT. For Star Trek, I want Star Trek.
P.S. I think specialization points should be utterly slow to et. They're extra cherries on top, not necessary for any game content.
So go play foundry missions and have all the Trek you want.
Or, horror of horrors, leave the church of the one true main and start a new captain.
Spec points are utterly slow to get. You haven't even hit the 55 wall yet, let alone the perma-60 wall.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Comments
Except it's not if you don't count raiding, which isn't the bulk of what people actually DO at endgame in WoW. Something like 5% of WoW endgame players raid.
So if you're comparing the endgame as people actually play it, WoW's is a lot freer and lighter.
I have not done any XP grinding what-so-ever and I'm at Level 55 and I'm not even through 4 of the episode story arcs.
The only thing that's not too fast is getting spec points once you're at level 60- now that takes a long time. But to get to 60 itself should probably take 3 times as long.
@DevolvedOne
Being stuck with the no-turn slower-than-a-tricycle Miranda any longer than we already are would not be a good way to entice new players to stick with the game.
Any don't worry about running out of story arcs. You'll hit the wall around 58. Even with Delta missions.
Interesting. I played my Delta Recruit up to the end of the Breen episode (i.e, the end of the 40 DR "goals"). Did a little doffing, and a few of the Cardassian arc missions were done during the bonus XP week. Made it to.... level 52 or 53? So I'm guessing you must have done something extra (patrols? Foundry? Alerts? STFs?) to be lv55 and only in the 4th episode.
Of course, we'd need three times the content for that to work.
Your level 52. You haven't even hit "The Wall" yet that starts around lvl 54-55. You may think levelling is fast at this point and honestly, up until you get where you are, is does move fairly well.
When you do hit The Wall, from then on, you will begin to lose your sense of progression since it will become a crawl. You will begin to notice that while the early levels moved your XP bar pretty rapidly, post-55 it will be barely moving. Doff missions that once seemed a nice boost will hardly move you forward. You will begin to notice how little xp is actually be available to progress. At 60 and beyond, unless you grind 4-5 hours a day, it will take many months to even gain one specialization point. Any alts you play will fall by the wayside as you try to keep up with just one character.
Levelling is imbalanced for sure. The issue for you is, up until now, you think it should be halved. At 60 and beyond, you'll be begging for it to be tripled based on how slowly that XP bar is moving.
As veteran of mmo grind myself, it doesn't have to be about the grind especially level grind which in nearly every mmo I have played since I started with everquest has generally been uninteresting. Sure you get new more powerful spells or abilities/stats. But to be honest it's not interesting or makes me feel like i accomplished anything except waste a bunch of time.
But what has made me feel that thrill of accomplishment, has been exception hard and interesting combat/encounter mechanics, in some dungeons and raids. So for me the end game is the part were i feel the most fun.
It has nothing to be with being spoiled, it has to do with differing views of what is fun, progression is only fun to me when I feel challenged and not a repetitive grind with very little meaningful progression, especially now that I have less and a less time for some mmo's version of progression.
It all has to do with how, you do it. TBH the biggest failure of delta rising was that sto veteran's due to having done all the content till delta rising, didn't have enough exp to get to 60 without grinding the same content over and over. While some people have the Patience, for that out of their games not everyone does, and it's not a generational thing. Some like me are just fed up with meaningless grind, and the feeling that your just a rat on wheel frantically trying to get the cheese that doesn't seem any closer no matter how many hours you sink into it.
The next bit is that the skill rewards in this game were not tuned very well for the specialization system, with no clear way to grind this reward system efficiently. Like the rep system or even the fleet system.
Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life...</b></size></center>
its bad enough as it is, adding more ranks wont change a thing, it will merely prolong the suffering of the instant gratification playerbase.
what is being female got to do with anything on playing mmo games?
so what if you done this or that, i came up through sim racing before retiring from it back before 2010.
But i play this game originally to have some fun and just to put it into prospective, on swtor i spend more time there leveling up and doing content, because it has a strong storyline to it rather than worrying too much about grinding levels to much.
DO NOT dis the miranda class. :P
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
With you on this one. While some foundry missing are fun, tend to be quite clunky. Not the authors fault, just is what it is.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Heck even the ones that were arc heavy or somewhat arc heavy near the end did random stories that weren't part of the arc.
Your joking right? I Because I not sure if you mean this or just pulling our legs. I mean i really am not sure.
1 to 50 was ment to be easy that way people can play the end game content, like STF's. But 50 to 60 is only heel of a grind and your find the Cardassian missions will get maybe a few levels if you look at the amount they give. Infact you may find you have a problem later when you try to get the specialization schools filled out.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~Bluegeek
50-60 pffft, more like 50-120+ with all the possible spec grind currently!!!
This most definitely, heck I haven't even completed a single full specialization yet on any character and, more was recently added within months of each other.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Decrease all level requirements from level 51-60 missions down to level 50. Leave L60 requirements to Elite STFs alone.
Story is story. You want to enjoy them at your leisure, not have to grind patrols and other content in-between because you don't have the required level. This is frustrating and alienates people.
Unfortunately, story missions are among the largest sources of XP in this game. Which I strongly feel that it's wrong and should be addressed, hopefully without hurting progression even more.
STO Screenshot Archive
May I remind you that throwing insulting comments around -- including insinuating that people are trolling -- is against forum rules.
If someone posts a comment that violates forum rules, please report it. Do not respond to, or quote it.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
My character Tsin'xing
Never change, Internet.
I agree and disagree with this plasma.
you are right about the whole brat generation but I believe that its not a matter of simply new generations of people turning up.
MMO's have become vastly more popular over the years (outside of wow) A lot of the time the hardcore players have no problem with the way MMO's have been so grind heavy but with so many new people turning up and them not being used to it and might I add many of them being casual players you cannot expect them to not be unhappy with the product they've just invested in and find out that the "ride" isnt as enjoyable as they were led to believe.
the level boost in WoW is an anomaly. one I completely hate. But its only one game, yeah its a hallmark for MMO's but every MMO is different. The grind is fine so long as the grind doesn't turn into a chore. Thats what grinding in STO has become.
When MMORPGs started (I count MU[D|SHe]s as a different beast), Meridan 59, UO, EQ, if you had a computer and played games on it you were sort of hardcore anyways. Being a no-life raider was sort of indistinguishable from your normal routine.
Now that even grandma plays games on the computer (beyond Solitaire), the gaming crowd has become less hardcore because you no longer need to be hardcore just to be playing. Wildstar tried to pander to the ultra-hardcore no-life raider of the turn of the century and look what it got them.
Are there new dyed-in-the-wool no-life hardcore raiders out there? Certainly. Are they a major segment of the market? Not really. Are there other choices for the more casual players out there so they don't have to choose a hardcore game to use as a chat client while missing most of the game? Yup.
So go play foundry missions and have all the Trek you want.
Or, horror of horrors, leave the church of the one true main and start a new captain.
Spec points are utterly slow to get. You haven't even hit the 55 wall yet, let alone the perma-60 wall.