So in this 19 page thread, has anyone pointed out that levels 1-40 are essentially still in a tutorial? Until level 40, you haven't even unlocked all your ability slots. It's not until you hit T5 ships at level 40 that you have a full set of 12 BOff abilities available on your ship.
There are 122 ships that can be used under level 39.
There are an additional 79 ships available at level 40.
There are an additional 161 ships available at level 50.
There's 122 ships with less than 12 ability slots, and 240 ships with 12 or more ability slots. You don't even unlock all available options until level 50 - the time it takes to hit 50 is fine. You don't really start building your character until then.
So in this 19 page thread, has anyone pointed out that levels 1-40 are essentially still in a tutorial? Until level 40, you haven't even unlocked all your ability slots. It's not until you hit T5 ships at level 40 that you have a full set of 12 BOff abilities available on your ship.
There are 122 ships that can be used under level 39.
There are an additional 79 ships available at level 40.
There are an additional 161 ships available at level 50.
There's 122 ships with less than 12 ability slots, and 240 ships with 12 or more ability slots. You don't even unlock all available options until level 50 - the time it takes to hit 50 is fine. You don't really start building your character until then.
Pretty much when you hit 50, it becomes the first day of the rest of your life. Story is ok getting there but once 50 is reached, you've hit end game.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
So in this 19 page thread, has anyone pointed out that levels 1-40 are essentially still in a tutorial?
This is what i said, during those first 40 levels or so your learning, how to deal with groups of enemies, big ships, ships that use sci-powers against you ect. Thinking of it as an extended training mission makes perfect sense and the leveling rate is just right. Just enough xp to unlock the next mission so you don't push too fast into content too hard for you.
Sorry about the necro in the old thread, I've made a new one.
The speed is WAY (and I mean WAY WAY WAY) too fast. I only used my Doffs and did the story missions, and I'm Level 52 without even being done with the Cardassian storyline.
I think everything is too fast, truth be told. I feel like I only get to be a Lieutenant and other ranks for a couple of days real time before my next promotion. I feel cheated and cheap and I get to be a Fleet Admiral, the highest rank in Starfleet, at Level 60. Star Trek is not like [other] MMORPGs and shouldn't be thought of as one. I would personally suggest the following changes:
First, halve he amount of XP given by EVERYTHING. Mobs, missions, Doffs, everything. Halve it. Then you change the ranks a bit. For one, Rear Admiral Lower Half IS NOT A REAL RANK in STAR TREK, get rid of it and change it to what it's supposed to be according to the shows: Commodore. Then divide them as such:
In addition, there should be actual challenging quests for the promotions from Commodore onward. Keep the level limit at 60 for now, but the ranks above Level 60 can be used for further expansions in the future
Are You Nuts... They would loose too many payers. The only leveling problem I see Is with the Klingon Faction, And it's way too slow......
STO is an MMO in name only. It's barely an MMO but it's not really. It's a single player adventure game with role play and multiplayer elements. All traditional MMO roles, systems and player habits have been replaced with easy and casual friendly alternatives - or have just been scrapped all together.
Online? Check.
Multiplayer? Check.
Massively? Depends on what "is" is, but for most people, check.
MMO doesn't have "Trinity" or "Party Mandatory" in it, anywhere.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
I still think it would be nice to be able to prestige. Keep all my gears/abilities/traits/specs/doffs/rep, but start over at level 1 and work back up to 60.
And for that matter, I think everyone should start out as an engineer's mate 3rd class and have to work up to Yeoman before commissioning and stuff.
As I mentioned the rank of Commodore was dropped by Trek because it was also dropped by the real life US Navy. The rank of Rear Admiral Lower Half is a real life military rank used in multiple services, so it is entirely appropriate.
So because the navy dropped the rank some time between the 60s and now, it makes sense for Starfleet to have to drop the rank between the 2260s and the 2400s?
I don't follow.
Starfleet is not the US Navy, and 2410-is not today. Canon states that there is a Starfleet rank of Commodore as of about the 2270s, and until canon gives me a reason to believe otherwise, I'll trust that over your own personal head canon.
Sorry about the necro in the old thread, I've made a new one.
The speed is WAY (and I mean WAY WAY WAY) too fast. I only used my Doffs and did the story missions, and I'm Level 52 without even being done with the Cardassian storyline.
I think everything is too fast, truth be told. I feel like I only get to be a Lieutenant and other ranks for a couple of days real time before my next promotion. I feel cheated and cheap and I get to be a Fleet Admiral, the highest rank in Starfleet, at Level 60. Star Trek is not like [other] MMORPGs and shouldn't be thought of as one. I would personally suggest the following changes:
First, halve he amount of XP given by EVERYTHING. Mobs, missions, Doffs, everything. Halve it. Then you change the ranks a bit. For one, Rear Admiral Lower Half IS NOT A REAL RANK in STAR TREK, get rid of it and change it to what it's supposed to be according to the shows: Commodore. Then divide them as such:
In addition, there should be actual challenging quests for the promotions from Commodore onward. Keep the level limit at 60 for now, but the ranks above Level 60 can be used for further expansions in the future
No more than you are for A: Calling a "ma'am" a "sir" which signals you did not read the thread or B: Failing at both spelling and punctuation. Also welcome to the party, you're only four days late.
EDIT: You know I think I finally realize why so many people hate forums. They are an infinite (and frustrating) loop. OP posts, people respond, OP either agrees and gives up or retorts. Coversation begins to wind down then a new group show up, completely ignore all other posts, decide they "need" to tell OP some home truths that have already been stated by a dozen people all leading to the conclusion of a second cycle and start of a third. New criticism or praise is always good in a debate. But why does a person with nothing new to say always feel the need to post? (Rhetorical question) Rinse and Repeat, Rinse and Repeat... that should be the mantra of gaming forums. :rolleyes:
As Zephram Cochrane once said, "That'll do, pig. That'll do." - April 1st 2015.
To be honest I kinda agree with the OP (but only to point).
Prior to doffing and the increases in XP in storyline mission rewards, leveling from 1-50 actually took some time. It was quite fun to claim a new ship and have to set it up each time you went up a tier. It introduced the player to different styles of ship etc, different play-style choices and you actually felt progression/reward.
There were then several changes that made the 1-50 faster and faster. Now it is ridiculously fast and you can doff a toon to 50 in a matter of weeks (with no actual play at all). Going through storyline missions is equally fast (and you level faster than the story is designed to play as the OP points out).
However, 50-60 and 60+ spec grinds are a different matter entirely.
These grinds are far too long with nowhere near enough storyline content in 50-60 range (you keep hitting the barrier in normal play through Delta story and have to faceplant in patrols over and over again). The rate of earning additional spec points on a handful of toons is also FAR too slow (and much slower than how quickly Cryptic adds new trees) and is also ridiculous.
Two separate issues. Potentially requiring separate fixes. I would personally like to see an overhaul of the doff system that tied XP rewards to character level - low level toons would get less rewards, level 60s would get much more. I would then lower XP payouts of 1-50 missions so that level progression was more in line with story progression. In the 50-60 story I would remove level lockouts on delta missions, as well as reducing the XP requirements for those level steps (including 60+)
In another MMO I played, they addressed this issue by allowing you to 'turn off' XP gains whenever you wanted. In return, the in-game currency payout increased.
Of course, in STO that probably wouldn't work since EC is already flowing like water, and can be used to indirectly buy Zen, thereby cutting into their real-world sales.
"You Iconians just hung a vacancy sign on your asses and my foot's looking for a room!"
--Red Annorax
Surprise surprse, this IS an MMORPG. All the focus is on the endgame and later levels because that is where the fun is (for the majority of people so im not generalizing). If you want to take it slow running around in your miranda class then do it. Patrols or guess what, this amazing thing called the foundry, each mission is like an episode and some of them are story driven that doesnt require a uber ship.
The fact is that all the new equipment, ships and content is at the end level so why would they want people to take longer to reach that point?
TLDR: Play the foundry or do patrols in your miranda class and leave the uber-cruiser in drydock
No more than you are for A: Calling a "ma'am" a "sir" which signals you did not read the thread or B: Failing at both spelling and punctuation. Also welcome to the party, you're only four days late.
EDIT: You know I think I finally realize why so many people hate forums. They are an infinite (and frustrating) loop. OP posts, people respond, OP either agrees and gives up or retorts. Coversation begins to wind down then a new group show up, completely ignore all other posts, decide they "need" to tell OP some home truths that have already been stated by a dozen people all leading to the conclusion of a second cycle and start of a third. New criticism or praise is always good in a debate. But why does a person with nothing new to say always feel the need to post? (Rhetorical question) Rinse and Repeat, Rinse and Repeat... that should be the mantra of gaming forums. :rolleyes:
U think i give 2 cryptic hamsters if its male or female? Or that my spelling or punctuation is correct?
Going from 50-60 is some of the slowest leveling I've seen in an MMO to date.
And you want to halve that?
You kids
Never will you understand the days of games like EverQuest, where leveling up 1 level was a week long process (and you were will 20 levels AWAY from the cap) and dying ONCE meant you lost more than week's worth of EXP and you had to loot your corpse in 24 hours or it disappeared FOREVER and you had to do it NAKED.
50-60 in this game is a joke, it took me a week of casual play.
For those saying "you'll see when you hit 55), I laugh in your general direction. You young people don't realize that this is how it used to be for every level, and thus we have more patience. I had to content with dialup for years, so this XP trek from 55-60 is gonna seem like a walk in the park.
OMG! Dialup! The horror. 56k dialup (which was quite common by the time of Meridian 59 and UO) was just fine for games that were optimized for it. If the game isn't pushing a lot of data around even that was overkill.
Try 300 baud with an acoustic coupler. That's patience.
Heck, my original toon was Level 44 when I left, and is now Level 52 as well after doing nothing but two farm maps and a dozen DSEs and one Red Alert. Last story mission done on THAT toon was "Cage of Fire".
You can't be that old if you're calling your captain a toon.
Oh, what's that you said? You were doing farm maps while complaining about too much XP? Here's a hint, don't do farm maps.
You can say it's too slow all you want, but that's your opinion, and it's my opinion that 55-60 isn't a bother but that 1-55 is horribly fast.
I'm not the least bit interested in hurrying to "max out". I'm not a twink or a min/maxer. I don't honestly care. ALL content in this game can be done without it. No exceptions. Specs are just busy work, really. Why would I rush to max out, thus leaving nothing in the game to do? This is why I say you're all doing it wrong.
You might actually want to try 55+ before you go spouting off.
I'd suggest doing Delta content in white mk X gear. You won't have to worry about the word fast again. If specs are just work then so are levels, why are you so bent over what you deem to be busy work? You're in no hurry, you'll unlock the level 60 missions eventually.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
U think i give 2 cryptic hamsters if its male or female? Or that my spelling or punctuation is correct?
No, just as I also assumed you were incapable of understanding irony or sarcasm. :rolleyes: Thank you though, for proving the point I made in my edit about johnny-come-latelys whose egotism gives them the irrepressable need to state obvious facts that were discussed days ago (By me and others) when A: the OP was still around and the discussion was relevant and B: with more grace and class than you could ever achieve with "U sir are an idiot."
As Zephram Cochrane once said, "That'll do, pig. That'll do." - April 1st 2015.
I hit level 50 before the end of Klingon War and did everything in an Odyssey. *shrug*
Didn't bother me at all, every game has a different leveling system.
I kind of miss playing MUDs, now that y'all are talking about being old. Back when I'd dismissed this newfangled EQ thing as being for casuals who didn't know how to type properly.
Wow, Ancient Anguish is still up and running, 23 years old now. Undoubtedly they've deleted my old characters though.
What Cyptic should do is rearange leveling that you need equal amount of XP for every level from 1 - 60 and decrease amount of XP need it for spec. points by 50%:cool:. Leveling to 50 can be done in 2 days.:D
People like me, and who agree with me, generally believe, like I do, that this game should not feel like another MMORPG and needs to feel more like Star Trek. It's really my only complaint.
The problem, of course, is that it is an MMO. And has been for years. So it's kind of tilting at windmills to come in and try to campaign for STO to be an entirely different game.
As an aside.... for all that "RPG" is in the acro MMORPG, there's really never been all that much "roleplaying" in MMOs. Taking a page from tabletop gaming, MMOs - and most digital RPGs really - have always been much more ROLLplaying (i.e, rolling dice, adding up numbers, minmaxing, combat) rather than ROLEplaying (acting a character, making decisions, having the world/NPCs react to those decisions, etc). Honestly, it's quite difficult to really Roleplay without having a GM who can react on the fly to the things you're doing. But especially in MMOs, where the world maintains a farmable/time-stopped status-quo for the dozens of parallel "main heroes" to endlessly repeat.
(note that I'm not counting the small groups who LARP in quiet corners using emotes & chat. Yes, they're roleplaying, but they're doing it despite the game around them.)
Let's now all nag to get a level cap increase to level 70 which will take far longer to level and mk XVI ultra epic gear that will take even more resources to put into. Yay!
Tyr shall give me strength! For the glory of Tempus! I am the hands of Shar! Flames of Kossuth, protect me! Oghma, grant me knowledge! Lolth commands, and I obey!
7
I'm old school. I was born in 1980. I grew up playing Final Fantasy, Dragon Warrior, and Ultima. D&D0, no hand holding in games at all, and true challenges.
I also grew up around that time, and the only thing "challenging" about leveling up in those games is having the willpower to do the same boring **** over, and over, and over, and over, and over to get one level.
Comments
There are 122 ships that can be used under level 39.
There are an additional 79 ships available at level 40.
There are an additional 161 ships available at level 50.
There's 122 ships with less than 12 ability slots, and 240 ships with 12 or more ability slots. You don't even unlock all available options until level 50 - the time it takes to hit 50 is fine. You don't really start building your character until then.
Pretty much when you hit 50, it becomes the first day of the rest of your life. Story is ok getting there but once 50 is reached, you've hit end game.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
This is what i said, during those first 40 levels or so your learning, how to deal with groups of enemies, big ships, ships that use sci-powers against you ect. Thinking of it as an extended training mission makes perfect sense and the leveling rate is just right. Just enough xp to unlock the next mission so you don't push too fast into content too hard for you.
Online? Check.
Multiplayer? Check.
Massively? Depends on what "is" is, but for most people, check.
MMO doesn't have "Trinity" or "Party Mandatory" in it, anywhere.
And for that matter, I think everyone should start out as an engineer's mate 3rd class and have to work up to Yeoman before commissioning and stuff.
So because the navy dropped the rank some time between the 60s and now, it makes sense for Starfleet to have to drop the rank between the 2260s and the 2400s?
I don't follow.
Starfleet is not the US Navy, and 2410-is not today. Canon states that there is a Starfleet rank of Commodore as of about the 2270s, and until canon gives me a reason to believe otherwise, I'll trust that over your own personal head canon.
U sir are an idiot
may he finds lvl60 in this life, amen
SECONDED! (damn it 10 character minimum, how am i gonna fill that?)
No more than you are for A: Calling a "ma'am" a "sir" which signals you did not read the thread or B: Failing at both spelling and punctuation.
EDIT: You know I think I finally realize why so many people hate forums. They are an infinite (and frustrating) loop. OP posts, people respond, OP either agrees and gives up or retorts. Coversation begins to wind down then a new group show up, completely ignore all other posts, decide they "need" to tell OP some home truths that have already been stated by a dozen people all leading to the conclusion of a second cycle and start of a third. New criticism or praise is always good in a debate. But why does a person with nothing new to say always feel the need to post? (Rhetorical question) Rinse and Repeat, Rinse and Repeat... that should be the mantra of gaming forums. :rolleyes:
Prior to doffing and the increases in XP in storyline mission rewards, leveling from 1-50 actually took some time. It was quite fun to claim a new ship and have to set it up each time you went up a tier. It introduced the player to different styles of ship etc, different play-style choices and you actually felt progression/reward.
There were then several changes that made the 1-50 faster and faster. Now it is ridiculously fast and you can doff a toon to 50 in a matter of weeks (with no actual play at all). Going through storyline missions is equally fast (and you level faster than the story is designed to play as the OP points out).
However, 50-60 and 60+ spec grinds are a different matter entirely.
These grinds are far too long with nowhere near enough storyline content in 50-60 range (you keep hitting the barrier in normal play through Delta story and have to faceplant in patrols over and over again). The rate of earning additional spec points on a handful of toons is also FAR too slow (and much slower than how quickly Cryptic adds new trees) and is also ridiculous.
Two separate issues. Potentially requiring separate fixes. I would personally like to see an overhaul of the doff system that tied XP rewards to character level - low level toons would get less rewards, level 60s would get much more. I would then lower XP payouts of 1-50 missions so that level progression was more in line with story progression. In the 50-60 story I would remove level lockouts on delta missions, as well as reducing the XP requirements for those level steps (including 60+)
...#LLAP...
Of course, in STO that probably wouldn't work since EC is already flowing like water, and can be used to indirectly buy Zen, thereby cutting into their real-world sales.
--Red Annorax
The fact is that all the new equipment, ships and content is at the end level so why would they want people to take longer to reach that point?
TLDR: Play the foundry or do patrols in your miranda class and leave the uber-cruiser in drydock
U think i give 2 cryptic hamsters if its male or female? Or that my spelling or punctuation is correct?
You kids
Never will you understand the days of games like EverQuest, where leveling up 1 level was a week long process (and you were will 20 levels AWAY from the cap) and dying ONCE meant you lost more than week's worth of EXP and you had to loot your corpse in 24 hours or it disappeared FOREVER and you had to do it NAKED.
50-60 in this game is a joke, it took me a week of casual play.
OMG! Dialup! The horror. 56k dialup (which was quite common by the time of Meridian 59 and UO) was just fine for games that were optimized for it. If the game isn't pushing a lot of data around even that was overkill.
Try 300 baud with an acoustic coupler. That's patience.
You can't be that old if you're calling your captain a toon.
Oh, what's that you said? You were doing farm maps while complaining about too much XP? Here's a hint, don't do farm maps.
You might actually want to try 55+ before you go spouting off.
I'd suggest doing Delta content in white mk X gear. You won't have to worry about the word fast again. If specs are just work then so are levels, why are you so bent over what you deem to be busy work? You're in no hurry, you'll unlock the level 60 missions eventually.
No, just as I also assumed you were incapable of understanding irony or sarcasm. :rolleyes: Thank you though, for proving the point I made in my edit about johnny-come-latelys whose egotism gives them the irrepressable need to state obvious facts that were discussed days ago (By me and others) when A: the OP was still around and the discussion was relevant and B: with more grace and class than you could ever achieve with "U sir are an idiot."
Didn't bother me at all, every game has a different leveling system.
I kind of miss playing MUDs, now that y'all are talking about being old. Back when I'd dismissed this newfangled EQ thing as being for casuals who didn't know how to type properly.
Wow, Ancient Anguish is still up and running, 23 years old now. Undoubtedly they've deleted my old characters though.
The problem, of course, is that it is an MMO. And has been for years. So it's kind of tilting at windmills to come in and try to campaign for STO to be an entirely different game.
As an aside.... for all that "RPG" is in the acro MMORPG, there's really never been all that much "roleplaying" in MMOs. Taking a page from tabletop gaming, MMOs - and most digital RPGs really - have always been much more ROLLplaying (i.e, rolling dice, adding up numbers, minmaxing, combat) rather than ROLEplaying (acting a character, making decisions, having the world/NPCs react to those decisions, etc). Honestly, it's quite difficult to really Roleplay without having a GM who can react on the fly to the things you're doing. But especially in MMOs, where the world maintains a farmable/time-stopped status-quo for the dozens of parallel "main heroes" to endlessly repeat.
(note that I'm not counting the small groups who LARP in quiet corners using emotes & chat. Yes, they're roleplaying, but they're doing it despite the game around them.)
For the glory of Tempus!
I am the hands of Shar!
Flames of Kossuth, protect me!
Oghma, grant me knowledge!
Lolth commands, and I obey!
I also grew up around that time, and the only thing "challenging" about leveling up in those games is having the willpower to do the same boring **** over, and over, and over, and over, and over to get one level.
Not exactly challenge as it is tedium.