Cryptic's play your way philosophy has crippled the trinity since players started figuring out the math in City of Heroes. No need for tanks and support when you can build a ship tanky and supportive enough all its own.
I remember 'exploration!' "We come in peace! Shoot to kill, shoot to kill, shoot to kill." A philosophy so good, Janeway used it all the way through the Delta Quadrant.
Does anyone actually believe in exploration or is it just another way of trolling the DPS crowd?
no trolling.. im not saying that there should be no combat in sto, im just saying that it is all we have.. again, balance, something cryptic sorely lacks and does not understand..
the term "trolling" used by anyone who cant come up with a better way to debunk tor argue the others points. used to hopefully make points look less valid... ugggg... I remember when one got in trouble for accusing someone of trolling.. we need this rule to be enforced again...
EDIT: For those of you that think that this is OK, why do you feel so? Don't just say things like "WELL I'M GLAD THE DEVS DON'T TAKE ADVICE FROM THE FORUMS" or "LOL PVP" (because this is both a PvE and PvP issue), please justify why you believe that almost 20 seconds of immunity every minute is OK.
I dont see the issue for pve? Maybe if the NPC could talk or write, but as it is, its a pvp-only-problem.
no trolling.. im not saying that there should be no combat in sto, im just saying that it is all we have.. again, balance, something cryptic sorely lacks and does not understand..
No, I'm pretty sure they do understand and that's why they developed the Foundry system. If you don't like the feature missions they're offering, you have the tools to make your own.
Hmm... Solanae 2-pc, Romulan 2-pc, crafted RCS with Prtg, crafted Exotic Particle Exciter with Prtg + "ordinary" Particle Generators (all at least at Mk XIV VR), etc.
You don't need all these for Exotic Damage to be effective ? Yeah, right - cool story, bro.
Update: Oh, and how could I forget about getting Graga Mal for TBR - without him using TBR in STFs will be one of the most idiotic moves you can make
Nope - You don't need any of that, save Graga, for a successful PartGen build. I use it, with Mk XII Embassy consoles and the Kobali set. If you want to go balls out, yeah, those are "requirements", but do you need them? No.
Hmm... Solanae 2-pc, Romulan 2-pc, crafted RCS with Prtg, crafted Exotic Particle Exciter with Prtg + "ordinary" Particle Generators (all at least at Mk XIV VR), etc.
You don't need all these for Exotic Damage to be effective ? Yeah, right - cool story, bro.
Update: Oh, and how could I forget about getting Graga Mal for TBR - without him using TBR in STFs will be one of the most idiotic moves you can make
I'm not one to easily tell people that they don't know what they are talking about, but I guess you would be surprised to hear that a experienced PartGen TBR user knows that there are situation in which you want to unslot Graga Mal because the non-pulling TBR is preferable. There is more to it than just activating the abilities and park your face on the keyboard - that still doesn't mean this game has high standards or anything, what qualifies for strategy in STO is still very basic. But still.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Thats what this thread reminds me of in short and aswell as it is yet another PvP whine of the week thread , i would think by now the PvP club would relise this isnt a PvP style game.
If this were a PvP style game id be inclined to agree with the OP however this is not the case therefore why are you whining about this is a PvE game.
If PvP were an important aspect of this game i would think cryptic would be addressing it more then just a passing glance and maybe a TRIBBLE.
Anyways i do enjoy the PvP whine of the week threads keep them coming
I dont see the issue for pve? Maybe if the NPC could talk or write, but as it is, its a pvp-only-problem.
Afraid Id have to agree..As the immunities,even with all of them in a PVE setting dont = god mode.. It does add a touch of longevity tho (for those who are having trouble with survivability in advanced PVE content).
I use immunities primarily to escape my opponents plasma explosions (guy regularly hits me for 60k+). If there was a way to resist this damage outside of immunities id do it.I did the same thing when Surgical strikes was in its pre nerf state.
I've also been on the opposing side with 1 immunity (RnR) facing someone with all of them.. However In most cases it just prolonged the inevitable by a few seconds. Keeping in mind only 2 of the more common immunities (Temp Insight and RnR) are player controlled the others are passive (2 have similar conditions for activation).
Passive, but you need 'Turn The Other Cheek' active on all four shield facings. Turn The Other Cheek only kicks in when you take damage on the opposite facing. So you basically have to spin in a circle for 30 seconds. Tier 3 pilot, 12 spec points minimum.
Temporal Insight - 4 seconds
Manually controlled power. Delta Recruits only? Fires with a hull heal, once every forty-five seconds.
Pilot Manuvers - 2 seconds with only a 10 second CD.
Manually controlled power, requires a pilot ship.
That's 17 seconds per minute (28%) right there. And I'm not even sure if I've included all possible sources.
That requires at least a Delta recruit, 12 spec points, tier 4(!) Iconian reputation plus the required item project, a pilot ship, spinning around in a circle at least once every 30 seconds, and the manual dexterity of a championship Starcraft player to time everything so that you get that 20 seconds of immunity within that minute.
So, in short, your complaint is about balance regarding roughly, what, maybe one percent of the playerbase has right now. If that.
While I agree that this is primarily a PVP issue, I also have many friends who play exclusively PVE that have issue with all the Immunities. When a Pilot Escort can tank better than the T6 Galaxy, there's something wrong with things.
While I agree that this is primarily a PVP issue, I also have many friends who play exclusively PVE that have issue with all the Immunities. When a Pilot Escort can tank better than the T6 Galaxy, there's something wrong with things.
The biggest issue isnt immunities its power creep and with cryptic thier answer to power creep is add more power creep.
They got a fever and the only cure? more power creep
Passive, but you need 'Turn The Other Cheek' active on all four shield facings. Turn The Other Cheek only kicks in when you take damage on the opposite facing. So you basically have to spin in a circle for 30 seconds. Tier 3 pilot, 12 spec points minimum.
Manually controlled power. Delta Recruits only? Fires with a hull heal, once every forty-five seconds.
That requires at least a Delta recruit, 12 spec points, tier 4(!) Iconian reputation plus the required item project, a pilot ship, spinning around in a circle at least once every 30 seconds, and the manual dexterity of a championship Starcraft player to time everything so that you get that 20 seconds of immunity within that minute.
So, in short, your complaint is about balance regarding roughly, what, maybe one percent of the playerbase has right now. If that.
Um i believe the T4 Iconian is a passive.Activated when taking damage similar to turn the other cheek...at least thats how I remember it..
But 3 total player controlled abilities. Of the 3 only 1 gives you 4 seconds of being immune while being able to fire back thats player controlled (Temp insight).. You can add the passives but there harder to predict and work best against the sneaky cloaked Alpha strike vaper.
In PVE..well..I can tell ya you can still be destroyed in ISA with all them immunities (Especially by the gate..)
In PVP..you give up some nice passives in the intel spec (intel Fleet) if Pilot is the primary (for turn the other cheek)at least in 1v1..
Um i believe the T4 Iconian is a passive.Activated when taking damage similar to turn the other cheek...at least thats how I remember it..
I don't have tier 4 Iconian to check, and I'm fairly certain its not on the wiki yet so I was taking a somewhat educated guess. I'll see if I can dig it up properly.
Dont use OP partgens or broken Plamsa doping on my ship (and kemocite 3 that like plasma doping bug and gets around 5-10x more dmg on crits then it should), no intel, pilot and command TRIBBLE lag making stuff ect (as its t5u), no t6 ship traits that are "so good coded the make huge lag" no all dmg immunity **** on me (as only noobs use it), and no iconian bull**** subnuke proc trait.
And still most feds die to my old escort and if i cant beat it i mostly make a draw or can cloak away without problems. With fleet mates we won every match in april we made with out t5u ships vs feds t6 sci ships - even if it were around 8-10 matches, the only problem for us made tal oaths team.
You can still fly and be extreamly strong (specially in teamfights) without such noob TRIBBLE (but it requiers to know your ship good and have very worked out build = to some low part also skill at flying).
But still the all dmg immunity stackers are just absurd (good thing all dmg immunity noobs who mostly also fly with fbp hit their own dmg on that thing), but still its an extreamly TRIBBLE way to deal with vaping (who craptic made alone OP by adding bull**** strong scaling to consoles).
Actually craptics devs are probably the most unskilled in balancing out there, as i never met a game with such abilities like SUBNUKE and such absurt amound of all dmg immunity (and also OP add the set sources of all dmg immunity - as they exist such).
There are very easy and even if not elegant ways to balance classes and ships, gear there is no need to make such stupid things like GODMODE's.
Its simple.. if someone cant build a ship and cant fly it (also has no skills at all) he will abuse the all dmg immunity bull****, other ppl who actually know what are doing dont.
But what can i say in our fleet we had testers from craptic that tested STO and we had to teach them how to build ships as the moment they showed up in kerrat they were dead in 1s. Thats the reason why Craptic devs are so bad at balancing... THEY ALSO CANT PLAY THEIR GAME - OR DONT EVEN PLAY IT!!!! and since its like that... Dont expect them to do any help regarding the balances as they are to ignorant and arrogant to hear to the players who mastered their game and know how to balance it.
Nope - You don't need any of that, save Graga, for a successful PartGen build.
From this point of view then, you don't Leech, Borg gear, etc for Energy Weapons. Just grab some "ordinary" mk XII VR gear, spec the skills right - and you are good
Without the above mentioned you will be running like 200-250 PartGens at best - and this definitely way behind the most efficient exotic damage builds.
And if we are talking about comparable things - then if you include Leech console for going after energy weapons, then you should include crafted consoles with Prtg for Exotic Damage.
Ignore PvP entirely - Do you guys honestly believe that completely ignoring all incoming damage makes STO mote fun? More challenging? That adding power creep on this level makes sense? Further diminishing the role of Tanks is good?
I hate to say it, but yes, on paper it looks like there are many immunities - but it seems the missing element is the cooldown periods - if you look at these periods in relation to the potential immunities; they seem a lot fairer - in fact, thinking about it, the maximum immunity time you could actively (controlled) get is:
2pc aegis ability (starting from when it activates)+improved temporal insight+rock n' roll
Even so, you'd then be waiting at least until RnR restores itself - enough time to block, say, HSEs omnimatix beam (I think) but leaving a huge gap otherwise to be attacked
On top of that, as far as I know, the immunities can occur at the same time, so are not totally controllable
I hate to say it, but yes, on paper it looks like there are many immunities - but it seems the missing element is the cooldown periods - if you look at these periods in relation to the potential immunities; they seem a lot fairer - in fact, thinking about it, the maximum immunity time you could actively (controlled) get is:
2pc aegis ability (starting from when it activates)+improved temporal insight+rock n' roll
Even so, you'd then be waiting at least until RnR restores itself - enough time to block, say, HSEs omnimatix beam (I think) but leaving a huge gap otherwise to be attacked
On top of that, as far as I know, the immunities can occur at the same time, so are not totally controllable
Yea...but that still equates to..4 seconds of predictable immunity where you can fight back without incurring damage..If your opponent properly times a rnr, your both out of immunities.. Game on.
a experienced PartGen TBR user knows that there are situation in which you want to unslot Graga Mal because the non-pulling TBR is preferable.
And how frequent exactly are these situations ? Especially compared to those when someone scatters the Nanite Spheres in ISA all over the place with "unreversed" TBR, just when you were going to drop a Grav well on them
And how frequent exactly are these situations ? Especially compared to those when someone scatters the Nanite Spheres in ISA all over the place with "unreversed" TBR, just when you were going to drop a Grav well on them
And how frequent exactly are these situations ? Especially compared to those when someone scatters the Nanite Spheres in ISA all over the place with "unreversed" TBR, just when you were going to drop a Grav well on them
That depends, it's basically every time you attempt to CC something, be it nanite spheres or Azure Nebula. Simple reason for that is the pull TBR is limited to three targets and sucks at controlling those. I absolutely see your point, don't get me wrong, a partgen build can be efficient or a desaster when people don't know what they are doing, I just wanted to point out that you don't need all that stuff. A embassy console with partgens doesn't really contribute all that much that a MK XII to Mk XIV is all that critical - except if you go for the highest position in some imaginary ranking. If we talk about that of course you need the most expensive gear as there is only one set of gear that will grant you the top position. If you are statisfied with "just" doing 20k-30k dps (which no content in the entire game can even come close to "needing" that) a partgen build is relatively cheap to accomplish, even without graga (you don't use TBR then, of course, or you just use it as a sledgehammer against stationary targets in STFs).
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Yea...but that still equates to..4 seconds of predictable immunity where you can fight back without incurring damage..If your opponent properly times a rnr, your both out of immunities.. Game on.
Of course the fact means its predictable means you can execute feints, forcing them to burn it in anticipation of your attack (I used to do feints in kerrat to lure bug users to burn their alphas in my corvette back when pvp was playable) - and there you go, no immunity problems
Of course the fact means its predictable means you can execute feints, forcing them to burn it in anticipation of your attack (I used to do feints in kerrat to lure bug users to burn their alphas in my corvette back when pvp was playable) - and there you go, no immunity problems
^ This.. The primary immunity problems are not really problems when you understand them..
Dont use it then. I still dont see the problem, except if you think you can dictate what other players should play with
Let me take this opportunity to agree as it may not come again!
Don't use these tactics if you don't like them. Trait something else. The game provides many choices.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Of course the fact means its predictable means you can execute feints, forcing them to burn it in anticipation of your attack (I used to do feints in kerrat to lure bug users to burn their alphas in my corvette back when pvp was playable) - and there you go, no immunity problems
Comments
no trolling.. im not saying that there should be no combat in sto, im just saying that it is all we have.. again, balance, something cryptic sorely lacks and does not understand..
the term "trolling" used by anyone who cant come up with a better way to debunk tor argue the others points. used to hopefully make points look less valid... ugggg... I remember when one got in trouble for accusing someone of trolling.. we need this rule to be enforced again...
I dont see the issue for pve? Maybe if the NPC could talk or write, but as it is, its a pvp-only-problem.
No, I'm pretty sure they do understand and that's why they developed the Foundry system. If you don't like the feature missions they're offering, you have the tools to make your own.
You're so right, I forgot that everyone wants to be Kirk in PvE and not even take damage :rolleyes:
Where's the challenge?
If you can not even be phased by Sphere's stripping your shield/Gate/TacCube/Vaadwuar Barrages, and anyone can tank with 20 second immunity?
Nope - You don't need any of that, save Graga, for a successful PartGen build. I use it, with Mk XII Embassy consoles and the Kobali set. If you want to go balls out, yeah, those are "requirements", but do you need them? No.
I'm not one to easily tell people that they don't know what they are talking about, but I guess you would be surprised to hear that a experienced PartGen TBR user knows that there are situation in which you want to unslot Graga Mal because the non-pulling TBR is preferable. There is more to it than just activating the abilities and park your face on the keyboard - that still doesn't mean this game has high standards or anything, what qualifies for strategy in STO is still very basic. But still.
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Thats what this thread reminds me of in short and aswell as it is yet another PvP whine of the week thread , i would think by now the PvP club would relise this isnt a PvP style game.
If this were a PvP style game id be inclined to agree with the OP however this is not the case therefore why are you whining about this is a PvE game.
If PvP were an important aspect of this game i would think cryptic would be addressing it more then just a passing glance and maybe a TRIBBLE.
Anyways i do enjoy the PvP whine of the week threads keep them coming
Afraid Id have to agree..As the immunities,even with all of them in a PVE setting dont = god mode.. It does add a touch of longevity tho (for those who are having trouble with survivability in advanced PVE content).
I use immunities primarily to escape my opponents plasma explosions (guy regularly hits me for 60k+). If there was a way to resist this damage outside of immunities id do it.I did the same thing when Surgical strikes was in its pre nerf state.
I've also been on the opposing side with 1 immunity (RnR) facing someone with all of them.. However In most cases it just prolonged the inevitable by a few seconds. Keeping in mind only 2 of the more common immunities (Temp Insight and RnR) are player controlled the others are passive (2 have similar conditions for activation).
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
Manually controlled power, tier 2 pilot, 6 spec points minimum.
Passive, but you need 'Turn The Other Cheek' active on all four shield facings. Turn The Other Cheek only kicks in when you take damage on the opposite facing. So you basically have to spin in a circle for 30 seconds. Tier 3 pilot, 12 spec points minimum.
Manually controlled power. Delta Recruits only? Fires with a hull heal, once every forty-five seconds.
Manually controlled power, requires Tier 4 Iconian Rep.
Manually controlled power, requires a pilot ship.
That requires at least a Delta recruit, 12 spec points, tier 4(!) Iconian reputation plus the required item project, a pilot ship, spinning around in a circle at least once every 30 seconds, and the manual dexterity of a championship Starcraft player to time everything so that you get that 20 seconds of immunity within that minute.
So, in short, your complaint is about balance regarding roughly, what, maybe one percent of the playerbase has right now. If that.
The biggest issue isnt immunities its power creep and with cryptic thier answer to power creep is add more power creep.
They got a fever and the only cure? more power creep
Um i believe the T4 Iconian is a passive.Activated when taking damage similar to turn the other cheek...at least thats how I remember it..
But 3 total player controlled abilities. Of the 3 only 1 gives you 4 seconds of being immune while being able to fire back thats player controlled (Temp insight).. You can add the passives but there harder to predict and work best against the sneaky cloaked Alpha strike vaper.
In PVE..well..I can tell ya you can still be destroyed in ISA with all them immunities (Especially by the gate..)
In PVP..you give up some nice passives in the intel spec (intel Fleet) if Pilot is the primary (for turn the other cheek)at least in 1v1..
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
I don't have tier 4 Iconian to check, and I'm fairly certain its not on the wiki yet so I was taking a somewhat educated guess. I'll see if I can dig it up properly.
And still most feds die to my old escort
You can still fly and be extreamly strong (specially in teamfights) without such noob TRIBBLE (but it requiers to know your ship good and have very worked out build = to some low part also skill at flying).
But still the all dmg immunity stackers are just absurd (good thing all dmg immunity noobs who mostly also fly with fbp hit their own dmg on that thing), but still its an extreamly TRIBBLE way to deal with vaping (who craptic made alone OP by adding bull**** strong scaling to consoles).
Actually craptics devs are probably the most unskilled in balancing out there, as i never met a game with such abilities like SUBNUKE and such absurt amound of all dmg immunity (and also OP add the set sources of all dmg immunity - as they exist such).
There are very easy and even if not elegant ways to balance classes and ships, gear there is no need to make such stupid things like GODMODE's.
Its simple.. if someone cant build a ship and cant fly it (also has no skills at all) he will abuse the all dmg immunity bull****, other ppl who actually know what are doing dont.
But what can i say in our fleet we had testers from craptic that tested STO and we had to teach them how to build ships as the moment they showed up in kerrat they were dead in 1s. Thats the reason why Craptic devs are so bad at balancing... THEY ALSO CANT PLAY THEIR GAME - OR DONT EVEN PLAY IT!!!! and since its like that... Dont expect them to do any help regarding the balances as they are to ignorant and arrogant to hear to the players who mastered their game and know how to balance it.
Without the above mentioned you will be running like 200-250 PartGens at best - and this definitely way behind the most efficient exotic damage builds.
And if we are talking about comparable things - then if you include Leech console for going after energy weapons, then you should include crafted consoles with Prtg for Exotic Damage.
That's exactly what I mean.
Ignore PvP entirely - Do you guys honestly believe that completely ignoring all incoming damage makes STO mote fun? More challenging? That adding power creep on this level makes sense? Further diminishing the role of Tanks is good?
Dont let the OP get to ya mate , this is starting to turn into a troll thread if it wasnt intended to be one in the first place.
Clearly the OP isnt willing to listen to reason or take in solid advice and answers from other players so dont let his demeanor ruin your day.
Cheers and have a good day
Oh, great, complain about something that might be helpful to players.
Signed,
Not fast with the fingers like all the xbox fanatics are...
Dont use it then. I still dont see the problem, except if you think you can dictate what other players should play with
2pc aegis ability (starting from when it activates)+improved temporal insight+rock n' roll
Even so, you'd then be waiting at least until RnR restores itself - enough time to block, say, HSEs omnimatix beam (I think) but leaving a huge gap otherwise to be attacked
On top of that, as far as I know, the immunities can occur at the same time, so are not totally controllable
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Yea...but that still equates to..4 seconds of predictable immunity where you can fight back without incurring damage..If your opponent properly times a rnr, your both out of immunities.. Game on.
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
Eh..push or pull em into the grav well ;p
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
That depends, it's basically every time you attempt to CC something, be it nanite spheres or Azure Nebula. Simple reason for that is the pull TBR is limited to three targets and sucks at controlling those. I absolutely see your point, don't get me wrong, a partgen build can be efficient or a desaster when people don't know what they are doing, I just wanted to point out that you don't need all that stuff. A embassy console with partgens doesn't really contribute all that much that a MK XII to Mk XIV is all that critical - except if you go for the highest position in some imaginary ranking. If we talk about that of course you need the most expensive gear as there is only one set of gear that will grant you the top position. If you are statisfied with "just" doing 20k-30k dps (which no content in the entire game can even come close to "needing" that) a partgen build is relatively cheap to accomplish, even without graga (you don't use TBR then, of course, or you just use it as a sledgehammer against stationary targets in STFs).
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All incoming damage for a few seconds, that requires skill to actually make the best use of it? Sure, why not.
Not everyone is here for the challenge.
One person's 'power creep' is another's nifty toy to use.
Because a few seconds of immunity here and there completely diminishes an already diminished role. Uh huh.
And again, look at all the requirements to get that twenty seconds you initially claimed.
Of course the fact means its predictable means you can execute feints, forcing them to burn it in anticipation of your attack (I used to do feints in kerrat to lure bug users to burn their alphas in my corvette back when pvp was playable) - and there you go, no immunity problems
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^ This.. The primary immunity problems are not really problems when you understand them..
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
Let me take this opportunity to agree as it may not come again!
Don't use these tactics if you don't like them. Trait something else. The game provides many choices.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Skill, strategy, and forethought in PvP? My word!