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Immunities are out of hand.
praxi5
Member Posts: 1,562 Arc User
The amount of time that you can be immune is just ridiculous - nearly 30% of combat time. It would be one thing if you were granted high defense or resistance for a few seconds, but this is literally Godmode for entirely too much time, way too often.
Rock N Roll - 4-5 seconds.
Thick of It (Pilot Spec) - 4 seconds
Temporal Insight - 4 seconds
Destabilizing Phase Array (Ico Rep, T4) - 3 seconds
Pilot Manuvers - 2 seconds with only a 10 second CD.
That's 17 seconds per minute (28%) right there. And I'm not even sure if I've included all possible sources.
Suggestion: Either include hard CDs for all sources of immunity (if you're immune by any source, you can not be granted immunity for another 45-60 seconds from any source), or have a cap on how much time you can spend immune (no more than 5-10 seconds per minute). Or, as others have suggested in this thread, switch it out to a high Defense and/or Resist.
EDIT: For those of you that think that this is OK, why do you feel so? Don't just say things like "WELL I'M GLAD THE DEVS DON'T TAKE ADVICE FROM THE FORUMS" or "LOL PVP" (because this is both a PvE and PvP issue), please justify why you believe that almost 20 seconds of immunity every minute is OK.
Rock N Roll - 4-5 seconds.
Thick of It (Pilot Spec) - 4 seconds
Temporal Insight - 4 seconds
Destabilizing Phase Array (Ico Rep, T4) - 3 seconds
Pilot Manuvers - 2 seconds with only a 10 second CD.
That's 17 seconds per minute (28%) right there. And I'm not even sure if I've included all possible sources.
Suggestion: Either include hard CDs for all sources of immunity (if you're immune by any source, you can not be granted immunity for another 45-60 seconds from any source), or have a cap on how much time you can spend immune (no more than 5-10 seconds per minute). Or, as others have suggested in this thread, switch it out to a high Defense and/or Resist.
EDIT: For those of you that think that this is OK, why do you feel so? Don't just say things like "WELL I'M GLAD THE DEVS DON'T TAKE ADVICE FROM THE FORUMS" or "LOL PVP" (because this is both a PvE and PvP issue), please justify why you believe that almost 20 seconds of immunity every minute is OK.
Post edited by praxi5 on
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Comments
To Op:
I pretty much agree with you,ther should be a global CD for immunities, just like anything else.
They will most likey nerf it anyway, some months after they releaeds the T6 (pilot) Defiant.
Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
On one hand, a couple were whining about vapes a couple of months ago. Now you are whining about immunity.
Apparently, nothing can satisfy the particular playerbase who keeps on whining about mechanics until they are spoonfed with the demands of the mechanics that they want.
Then, dont expect balance. It is the level of expectations the one person sets that gets certain people to rage about it.
Balance has always been a pipedream in this game.
If you want to do something about balance, set competitions with same weapons, same ships and the same abilities using the same quality of gear. That is total balance done by the community.
However, balance kills diversity. Setting such standards would kill a lot of builds. With what the STO has offered these years is they prefer diversity over balance.
Stuff should buff/debuff, nothing should work at 100%
Times like this I'm glad the Devs don't take advice from the forums, how could they? everyone is contradicting one another every week.
Oh and before there were too many Dilithium sinks with the upgrades and now there is too much Dilithium.
ummm, they might be scratching their heads, cause they obviously don't understand balance, or how to copramise between power problems..
every single time we have a balance issue in the game, they way over compensate for it, creating another balance issue..
we have a problem with vapes, so now they make it so no one can take dmg ever.. balance is the issue, and balance is a term that sto devs do not understand. they never have.. just look at the game, there is not even balance between career specs and ships.. this game is designed to coral us into making more dps. all of the objectives and optionals in game are designed around killing things in x amount of time or less. this game balances away from most sci skills and most engineer skills, and puts us more in line with tac skills..
Pax, a player with your knowledge and skill level in this game should understand better than most regarding this.
Vapes are one thing, but complete and total Godmode is another entirely.
Your thinly veiled accusations against PvP and that "particular playerbase" don't really make much sense here - if you go back and look at most of the threads created by myself and others, the intention is to bring about a better gameplay experience for all - examples including buffing Mines/Torps/Cannons and providing alternatives for meatbag NPCs.
You don't counter a gunshot by encasing yourself in a foot-thick ball of steel.
It's not about class balance at all, since all of the Immunity abilities are available to everyone, regardless of Captain Class or ship type.
It's about stupid mechanics in the game. A few seconds of immunity (with a respectable CD) would be acceptable - but not when you can chain immunity after immunity for nearly 1/3 of combat.
It does not matter if it's PvE or PvP. The PvP implications are obvious and PvE should be evident as well - why bother not shooting or moving out of range for the CC's megablast when you can simply turn yourself immune to it's effects, for example?
Things I'm glad I read after finishing my morning energy drink. Well said.
No, you're misreading the situation.
The game is far too easy if you know what you're doing. The vast majority of players don't have half the knowledge that the average forumite does.
Your average player is going to see RnR and go "Oh cool, I can use this with my Pilot abilities!" and have themselves a nice little "Get out of jail free" card.
But then those that have more knowledge of the game can stack and stack and stack these things to become Gods.
If they were to implement maybe 1 or 2 immunities as a counter to Vapers, it would be understandable (though I personally don't believe that the counter to massive one-shots should be total invulnerability). But now they've implemented so many that it's just over the top.
And these aren't defensive capabilities - these are just straight up Godmode. I thought half of the challenge of an Elite level mission/queue was that the enemies fought back hard. If you can sit there and don't even be phased by their damage, what's the point?
This game has a habit of just being horribly hamfisted when it comes to everything. Need to encourage people to upgrade? Exponentially increase the damage granted at higher Marks! Too many one-shots? Make the one shot abilities more potent (100% CrtH), remove double tap and put in a lockbox, and then give everyone total immunity as a counter!
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There will never be balance between Tactical and the Other careers, the majority of the player base are Tactical and they don't want to give up the top spot without a fight.
And they'll only pull the age old argument of "Science and Engineering aren't meant to have high DPS".
Yeah because having a career not geared towards DPS in a game where DPS is king makes perfect sense, having massive DPS with Energy weapons is fine but as soon as Exotic damage abilities can reach a fraction of that then they're "OP".
That's not the point, the point is that players rage about different things every month and more often that not those things contradict one another. The game is too hard, the game is too easy, my porridge is too hot, my porridge is too cold. Cryptic can't satisfy both sides at the same time.
They can't just say "the game is hard only for experienced players so we should do that they say and leave the other half of the player base behind" they can't cater to one side and leave the other, so you see why nothing ever gets solved?
I think the issue with that is the skill involved and the methods through which the damage is delivered.
With Energy Weapons, you at least have to have high Weapons Power (overcap, even), methods of maintaining that power (EPtW, Borg 2-pc, etc), cycle targets, and at least somewhat position yourself.
With Exotic abilities (IE: TBR, Isokinetic Cannon), you don't have to do anything but slap +PartGen gear onto your ship, pick the appropriate traits, plop yourself somewhere vaguely near a target that you want to hit. Push a button, fire and forget.
I do fully, 100% agree that we need alternative forms of damage that aren't Energy Weapons, but they should have at least a sliver of skill and/or brain power behind them.
But that's a whole nother story
Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
And another contradiction appears! everyone has been raging that BFAW is too OP and no skill is required whatsoever but now Energy weapons take skill to use all of a sudden!
Having high weapons power is not a challange, EPTW, Plasmonic leech and some flow capacitors and the right Warp core and power is no problem,
Cycling targets is not necessary considering Scatter Volley and Fire at will.
Positioning yourself is also a problem with many exotic abilities as most of them are fire from the forward arc, Resonance Beam, Gravity Well, Tyken's rift... ect...
Slapping on +Partgen consoles is no different from slapping on Vulnerability locators and Crit your opponent into oblivion.
Not to mention a Tactical player can better enhance Science abilities that a Science officer can, as Attack Pattern alpha enhances all damage sources even exotic ones.
Sensor Scan can easily be replaced by an APB and ScatterVolley/FireatWill manouver.
No, FAW doesn't require much skill at all - but you at least have to understand how it works/how to build in order to get the most out of it. With PartGen abilities, you don't even need to know that.
You're totally right, it's not a challenge to have an maintain high weapons power - but you still need to do it. You don't need to do that for exotic damage (TBR), and when you do, there's no drain on Aux so you don't have to maintain it.
Again, you're right about PartGen consoles vs Vulnerability locators. I should have been more clear. I meant that Energy Weapons at least require "support" from things like Borg 2-pc, Leech, etc. PartGen abilities don't. All you need is a decently high PartGen skill and Particle Manipulator.
BFAW is too OP. Would I agree that Exotic Damage is "OP"? No, I wouldn't quite say it's OP, but I would say that it's incredibly "cheap" (not monetarily, but cheese wise) and easy.
But, again, that's an entirely different discussion.
And meanwhile poor Engies have been left even further behind :P
Particle Generators also require "support" in choosing appropriate gear that enhances Particle Generators, The right BOFF abilities, you don't need to understand the mathematics behind the Borg two piece set to know how to equip it or any other energy weapon supporting gear.
Achieving high Particle Generator skill is no different from achieving high Critical chance.
yes, agreed. lol.. I wasn't even talking about the two being able to dps or have as high of dps, but rather cryptic actually making content that incorporates the need to have cc, or a tank, or the use of some of the other careers powers and specialties..
do you remember when the star trek franchise used to be more about exploration and finding ways around fighting? lol..
https://youtu.be/QyUKsX9G0Gw
Included is some new cheese discovered by our Chief of Cheesy Tactics, Captain SoB.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
You don't need all these for Exotic Damage to be effective ? Yeah, right - cool story, bro.
Update: Oh, and how could I forget about getting Graga Mal for TBR - without him using TBR in STFs will be one of the most idiotic moves you can make
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Cryptic's play your way philosophy has crippled the trinity since players started figuring out the math in City of Heroes. No need for tanks and support when you can build a ship tanky and supportive enough all its own.
I remember 'exploration!' "We come in peace! Shoot to kill, shoot to kill, shoot to kill." A philosophy so good, Janeway used it all the way through the Delta Quadrant.
Does anyone actually believe in exploration or is it just another way of trolling the DPS crowd?