Also my interest is pretty academic actually... I am working on stories of Gaming as a Sport... for a fairly popular online outlet, and it seems to me that anything referred to as a "League" is at the very least, in the fledgling stages of becoming sport in a way ... but its hard for me, I guess because I play the game myself, and I am big with numbers (I am in a biomedical engineering program at 40, lol, went back to school, I guess I look at shipbuilding similarly to pharmacology and clinical trials *grins*) - so trying to figure out what makes this tick from a rules standpoint, and not just the written ones, the unspoken ones...
Yeah, I guess my confusion is what the DPS leagues are measuring. Good teamplay will obviously result in higher DPS for some (especially Tacs), sometimes science (PartGen AoE builds come to mind) - but it seems to me, that while yes, build comes into play, a high number on ISA also says as much about the support players as it does the high DPSer (by the way, I have an 11k+ log from an ISA run earlier, but I can't figure out how to upload it)
I like the idea of team numbers, and if there was a way to measure buff/debuff performance as well (ala City of Heroes, if I remember right the combatlogs used to show that kind of stuff if you turned an option on) you could actually have real team numbers... and rank people on them.
However, if you want people to stand on their own, for the most part... I was making a point about lessening the amount of variables to get more "true" numbers, especially for people trying to maximize their builds for the best performance in general.
If you have the Combat log reader and if you have the right combat open there should be an upload button on the right side right above the section with all the players numbers.
The main problem is that while you could log a lot more information a fair measurement of support chars is just not possible. An example would be a grav well hitting spheres and the nadion bomb incomming. So the bomb hits more targets because of the grav well but how mans would have been hit without it cant be answered by a simple log.
Also you can do quite good runs just using scims no need for real support chars.
You are correct ofc to assume that a good team is necessary for really top runs but you can still do 80-100k in random pugs without too much trouble.
If we wanted we could make solo-isa runs to test a persons dps more accurately and without team support but its not really practical to do so in large numbers its hard to check and well this IS a team game so it makes sense to measure dps in a team setting. And finally depending on your setup if you are using real support chars and their healing/cc-ing is quite constant so you still can measure what you yourself did in that "almost constant" situation.
And finally its also depending on luck a lot - if you get those crits/procs in the right moment or not can make a huge difference.
Also my interest is pretty academic actually... I am working on stories of Gaming as a Sport... for a fairly popular online outlet, and it seems to me that anything referred to as a "League" is at the very least, in the fledgling stages of becoming sport in a way ... but its hard for me, I guess because I play the game myself, and I am big with numbers (I am in a biomedical engineering program at 40, lol, went back to school, I guess I look at shipbuilding similarly to pharmacology and clinical trials *grins*) - so trying to figure out what makes this tick from a rules standpoint, and not just the written ones, the unspoken ones...
The main problem with that is that sto has (like a lot of other games) very poorly written tooltips and the like so its in most cases impossible to be sure whether something is WAI or not. If you have two consoles of something that says unique on it its pretty clear cut a bug and not allowed but in a lot of other situations its not. Just because something feels overpowered or does something else than it says in the tooltip doesnt mean anything.
Take delta rep T5 for example. Its so overpowered that if used right makes all ground missions easy as hell. Its still in the game and it still does insane dmg but while its hillariously op there is no indication about it being actually bugged cause when asked cryptic doesnt answer.
And finally the main rule right now is that everything goes. If its doing dps and if its not a bugged run its fair game. Obviously there are those who feel like this ship or that console is op and shouldnt be allowed but there is no concensus other than do what helps the numbers:)
Some of it is applicable in other situations as well even pugs while others only work in the context of high dps teams. Everybody is free to see it the was they like. For those not interested in the single person dps we have timed runs where the goal is to reduce mission time overall. You obviously need high dps for that but its more a team focussed stat than the rest.
I'd point out that we don't ignore SB234. It's not relevant for the DPS channels, but we don't ignore it for testing purposes.
SB234 is commonly used (parsing only the starbase, not the full encounter) to test small variations in equipment that would otherwise be lost in the noise of a normal encounter, such as the difference between different deflector/engine/shield setups.
Yeah, I guess my confusion is what the DPS leagues are measuring.
The entire point of the DPS channels is to find players with a certain minimum level of ability to ensure successful completion of queued content.
ISA is used as a baseline because the DPS numbers are relevant, while having the least amount of variables.
Nobody cares in the slightest if you can do 100k solo if you end up doing 1k in a team because you can never reach anything before your team members kill them.
Regarding CLR, is there a particular method that is preferred for bringing up potential issues? Or checking if something has been brought up so as not to bring it up again?
Like say, Tachyon Charges showing as Healing rather than Damage. (Damn that Willard the Rat, he's healing the Borg!) Heh, 23.454% of my healing was actually damage to Borg shields rather than healing their shields. I'm not a traitor! :P
Reports of Willard's assimilation have been greatly exaggerated :P
Though, er, I might have been running both 3pc Borg sets on the T5U Fleet Nebula I was goofing around in testing an Inhibiting Secondary and some Command Specialization stuff.
Regarding CLR, is there a particular method that is preferred for bringing up potential issues? Or checking if something has been brought up so as not to bring it up again?
Like say, Tachyon Charges showing as Healing rather than Damage. (Damn that Willard the Rat, he's healing the Borg!) Heh, 23.454% of my healing was actually damage to Borg shields rather than healing their shields. I'm not a traitor! :P
Reports of Willard's assimilation have been greatly exaggerated :P
Regarding CLR, is there a particular method that is preferred for bringing up potential issues? Or checking if something has been brought up so as not to bring it up again?
The best way is to send me an ingame mail (in German (if possible) or English). I try to fix such issues as soon as possible. Best add a link to a sample log file to help me reproduce the mistake. That helps a lot.
I must be doing something wrong, either with the installation or something else as so far I don't have any log files despite copying the start and stop commands into the ingame chat.
I must be doing something wrong, either with the installation or something else as so far I don't have any log files despite copying the start and stop commands into the ingame chat.
As mentioned in the reader, the game does not create empty log files. You have to fight something (after typing /Combatlog 1) to let it create a log file.
And maybe try to type the commands yourself instead of copy them. Once you type /Com, there should be an auto-complete suggestion. I don't know if the chat commands are case sensitive.
As mentioned in the reader, the game does not create empty log files. You have to fight something (after typing /Combatlog 1) to let it create a log file.
And maybe try to type the commands yourself instead of copy them. Once you type /Com, there should be an auto-complete suggestion. I don't know if the chat commands are case sensitive.
I'll give it a shot- first couple of times I typed in the command right before doing an ISA. Of course, that we missed the optional and thus failed the mission both times I tried it certainly wouldn't have helped matters!
Still not managing to generate any combat logs despite running the reader and entering the commands into the ingame chat. I navigate to the directory listed and find 8 log files, none of which are called combat. I'm going to try modifying the permissions on the game folder and see if that makes a difference.
Any chance you have it installed via Steam or did at one point? Friend just today told me it was putting his combatlog file in his steam STO folder or something like that.
SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci
Any chance you have it installed via Steam or did at one point? Friend just today told me it was putting his combatlog file in his steam STO folder or something like that.
yes, i heard about that too. If you installed it once per steam and alter without steam, it sometimes still uses the steam directory (.../steamapps/common/Star Trek Online/...) for logs and keybind files.
Try the windows search with "Combatlog" and see, if it finds it somewhere. But missing permissions could be a reason, too.
yes, i heard about that too. If you installed it once per steam and alter without steam, it sometimes still uses the steam directory (.../steamapps/common/Star Trek Online/...) for logs and keybind files.
Try the windows search with "Combatlog" and see, if it finds it somewhere. But missing permissions could be a reason, too.
I'll run the search for the logfile in case it's wound up elsewhere, though I know for a fact I've not used Steam for STO. The combatlog app defaults to the documents folder when clicking browse directory. Is there a specific folder I need to run the reader from?
UPDATE: Running the search cleared up what was going on- turns out there was an old installation of STO. So while I was looking here:
Just wanted to say thanks to Ryan for those Video Tutorials. So, Thanks Ryan. These videos helped me out tremendously with DPS. Although I don't have all that gear yet, mainly the higher end fleet stuff(tac consoles) and the Crit D weapons from R&D. This still brought my DPS from single targets(CRF) to melting multiple targets(CSV) at one time. Still got a long ways to go but with some effort and knowledge. I will get there. This game is much more fun now. Thank you all for this thread too. Looks like all I need now is some better Weapons, Tactical consoles, and a nice Warp core.
So, let's discuss the new trait : temporal insight.
I have just unlocked the normal version but I haven't had time to try it yet . However , I have caught some discussion going on the OPvP channel where they said that it actually procs when you and only you throw a heal on yourself, which means that a nanny Recluse shouldn't make it proc on you when not needed.
So, let's see
we already have Tactical Retreat, the Faeht trait, which is passive and - if memory serves me well - makes you untargetable for 2 seconds with 60% defense and can occur once every 60 seconds.
The improved temporal insight makes you immune to damage for 4 seconds and can occur once every 45 seconds, IF you are fast enough to throw a heal on yourself right after hitting Go Down Fighting.
On paper , I would go for the improved temporal insight instead of Tactical Retreat.
Your thoughts?
Hey Porch, about time you renamed the thread, 'Butt hurt about DPS Channels' No?
SCM - Infected(S) - DMG Out: 11,776,567 DPS: 114,224.70 (28.7% of Team) - Pinky@ukcaptain420 I reserve the right to have a completely different standpoint depending on my mood.
Its so funny how people get there panties in a wad about DPS so easily. You do realize what a good laugh we get out of people like yourself that go so crazy about simply seeing how much you actually contributed to your teams completion of a mission, right?
Its so funny how people get there panties in a wad about DPS so easily. You do realize what a good laugh we get out of people like yourself that go so crazy about simply seeing how much you actually contributed to your teams completion of a mission, right?
And I thought you were laughing about other things...
Dapper Drake, Edgy Eft, Feisty Fawn... I know a few more Ubuntu Releases, but noone would see any connection here...
Captains, as a reminder please do not respond to posts that violate forum rules.
Please do report them, either by filing a ticket at support.perfectworld.com, sending Customer Service an email, or sending a PM to a Moderator.
~Bluegeek
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Captains, as a reminder please do not respond to posts that violate forum rules.
Please do report them, either by filing a ticket at support.perfectworld.com, sending Customer Service an email, or sending a PM to a Moderator.
~Bluegeek
Thank you for taking care of this so promptly. A report button would be greatly appreciated though--unless you get inundated by whinny kids constantly hitting the button.
Anyway, I do believe Torsten might be on to something. It does appear that DapperDrake is all of the above aliases. Let's hope you slapped him with a forum ban. . .
Thank you for taking care of this so promptly. A report button would be greatly appreciated though--unless you get inundated by whinny kids constantly hitting the button.
Anyway, I do believe Torsten might be on to something. It does appear that DapperDrake is all of the above aliases. Let's hope you slapped him with a forum ban. . .
Taking care of this in the forums is one thing, it is another thing to keep such people out of the DPS-channels (in my case also a few other channels).
I just threw a few names in the air, while you might have an idea of who I was thinking about, the forums are not a place for those speculations and suspicions.
The only thing we could try is to ask a Moderator (via PM) or Cryptic-Support for the @handle of that Dapperdrake. If we are lucky, someone might be able to help us in this case.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
If Star Trek Online was an Open-Source (GPL) Game, we would have a low-grind fork.
Why is it when you form an STF in DPS-10,000 do the players try hard to lose and not win?
is it a way for faking some high DPS? because if it's true, then....
I'm just tired of making STFs in there and it loses.... and don't give me anything about a toon having low DPS, when you post a failed STF on someone, I've seen 30K players do 5K on TRIBBLE like that sometimes...
Comments
If you have the Combat log reader and if you have the right combat open there should be an upload button on the right side right above the section with all the players numbers.
The main problem is that while you could log a lot more information a fair measurement of support chars is just not possible. An example would be a grav well hitting spheres and the nadion bomb incomming. So the bomb hits more targets because of the grav well but how mans would have been hit without it cant be answered by a simple log.
Also you can do quite good runs just using scims no need for real support chars.
You are correct ofc to assume that a good team is necessary for really top runs but you can still do 80-100k in random pugs without too much trouble.
If we wanted we could make solo-isa runs to test a persons dps more accurately and without team support but its not really practical to do so in large numbers its hard to check and well this IS a team game so it makes sense to measure dps in a team setting. And finally depending on your setup if you are using real support chars and their healing/cc-ing is quite constant so you still can measure what you yourself did in that "almost constant" situation.
And finally its also depending on luck a lot - if you get those crits/procs in the right moment or not can make a huge difference.
The main problem with that is that sto has (like a lot of other games) very poorly written tooltips and the like so its in most cases impossible to be sure whether something is WAI or not. If you have two consoles of something that says unique on it its pretty clear cut a bug and not allowed but in a lot of other situations its not. Just because something feels overpowered or does something else than it says in the tooltip doesnt mean anything.
Take delta rep T5 for example. Its so overpowered that if used right makes all ground missions easy as hell. Its still in the game and it still does insane dmg but while its hillariously op there is no indication about it being actually bugged cause when asked cryptic doesnt answer.
And finally the main rule right now is that everything goes. If its doing dps and if its not a bugged run its fair game. Obviously there are those who feel like this ship or that console is op and shouldnt be allowed but there is no concensus other than do what helps the numbers:)
Some of it is applicable in other situations as well even pugs while others only work in the context of high dps teams. Everybody is free to see it the was they like. For those not interested in the single person dps we have timed runs where the goal is to reduce mission time overall. You obviously need high dps for that but its more a team focussed stat than the rest.
SB234 is commonly used (parsing only the starbase, not the full encounter) to test small variations in equipment that would otherwise be lost in the noise of a normal encounter, such as the difference between different deflector/engine/shield setups.
The entire point of the DPS channels is to find players with a certain minimum level of ability to ensure successful completion of queued content.
ISA is used as a baseline because the DPS numbers are relevant, while having the least amount of variables.
Nobody cares in the slightest if you can do 100k solo if you end up doing 1k in a team because you can never reach anything before your team members kill them.
You find it here:
http://sto-league.tk/
It only contains ISA and records of 10k+ DPS, but I think it may be helpful.
Yeah , about that list ... -- could you please remove my @handle from it ?
And it would also be nice if I didn't get any more auto-invites to any DPS channels .
Thanks .
Like say, Tachyon Charges showing as Healing rather than Damage. (Damn that Willard the Rat, he's healing the Borg!) Heh, 23.454% of my healing was actually damage to Borg shields rather than healing their shields. I'm not a traitor! :P
Though, er, I might have been running both 3pc Borg sets on the T5U Fleet Nebula I was goofing around in testing an Inhibiting Secondary and some Command Specialization stuff.
Reports of Willard's assimilation have been greatly exaggerated :P
The best way is to send me an ingame mail (in German (if possible) or English). I try to fix such issues as soon as possible. Best add a link to a sample log file to help me reproduce the mistake. That helps a lot.
As mentioned in the reader, the game does not create empty log files. You have to fight something (after typing /Combatlog 1) to let it create a log file.
And maybe try to type the commands yourself instead of copy them. Once you type /Com, there should be an auto-complete suggestion. I don't know if the chat commands are case sensitive.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
Game's best wiki
Build questions? Look here!
yes, i heard about that too. If you installed it once per steam and alter without steam, it sometimes still uses the steam directory (.../steamapps/common/Star Trek Online/...) for logs and keybind files.
Try the windows search with "Combatlog" and see, if it finds it somewhere. But missing permissions could be a reason, too.
I'll run the search for the logfile in case it's wound up elsewhere, though I know for a fact I've not used Steam for STO. The combatlog app defaults to the documents folder when clicking browse directory. Is there a specific folder I need to run the reader from?
UPDATE: Running the search cleared up what was going on- turns out there was an old installation of STO. So while I was looking here:
C:\Program Files\Star Trek Online\Star Trek Online_en
The log file was here:
C:\Program Files (x86)\Perfect World Entertainment\Star Trek Online_en.
At least now I know where I was going wrong
I have just unlocked the normal version but I haven't had time to try it yet . However , I have caught some discussion going on the OPvP channel where they said that it actually procs when you and only you throw a heal on yourself, which means that a nanny Recluse shouldn't make it proc on you when not needed.
So, let's see
we already have Tactical Retreat, the Faeht trait, which is passive and - if memory serves me well - makes you untargetable for 2 seconds with 60% defense and can occur once every 60 seconds.
The improved temporal insight makes you immune to damage for 4 seconds and can occur once every 45 seconds, IF you are fast enough to throw a heal on yourself right after hitting Go Down Fighting.
On paper , I would go for the improved temporal insight instead of Tactical Retreat.
Your thoughts?
DPS channels and records have all the cachet and prestige that Hogger raids have in current WOW content.
So don't let it keep you up at night.
Please do not respond to posts that clearly violate forum rules. ~Bluegeek
Hey Porch, about time you renamed the thread, 'Butt hurt about DPS Channels' No?
I reserve the right to have a completely different standpoint depending on my mood.
If you have any problems in the channels, you can talk to an admin. But calling people TRIBBLE is not a good way to treat people.
Parser: CombatLogReader (CLR)
Well done, you have been reported to Cryptic. Let's see how they handle a Racist such as yourself.
DPS Channels / League Info (STO Forums)
Its so funny how people get there panties in a wad about DPS so easily. You do realize what a good laugh we get out of people like yourself that go so crazy about simply seeing how much you actually contributed to your teams completion of a mission, right?
And I thought you were laughing about other things...
Dapper Drake, Edgy Eft, Feisty Fawn... I know a few more Ubuntu Releases, but noone would see any connection here...
In fact, I think that user hasn't got "just issues" with some DPS: How to know my real dps?
If you've got problems, there are always people to talk to, but not this way.
If Star Trek Online was an Open-Source (GPL) Game, we would have a low-grind fork.
Please do report them, either by filing a ticket at support.perfectworld.com, sending Customer Service an email, or sending a PM to a Moderator.
~Bluegeek
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
So when are we going to get an actual Report button on posts? :P
Seriously, those three methods are kind of a PitA.
I think Tactical Retreat sucks.
I haven't really noticed much of a difference on my Scimitar.
Thank you for taking care of this so promptly. A report button would be greatly appreciated though--unless you get inundated by whinny kids constantly hitting the button.
Anyway, I do believe Torsten might be on to something. It does appear that DapperDrake is all of the above aliases. Let's hope you slapped him with a forum ban. . .
DPS Channels / League Info (STO Forums)
Taking care of this in the forums is one thing, it is another thing to keep such people out of the DPS-channels (in my case also a few other channels).
I just threw a few names in the air, while you might have an idea of who I was thinking about, the forums are not a place for those speculations and suspicions.
The only thing we could try is to ask a Moderator (via PM) or Cryptic-Support for the @handle of that Dapperdrake. If we are lucky, someone might be able to help us in this case.
If Star Trek Online was an Open-Source (GPL) Game, we would have a low-grind fork.
is it a way for faking some high DPS? because if it's true, then....
I'm just tired of making STFs in there and it loses.... and don't give me anything about a toon having low DPS, when you post a failed STF on someone, I've seen 30K players do 5K on TRIBBLE like that sometimes...
What happened to the team thing and winning?