Well, let's see. Calling up the corps of cadets on purpose (not being forced into field-commissioning a shipload of them in a temporary emergency, underline), KDF launching full-scale invasions of Federation home territory (as opposed to duking it out on the border with the odd deep-strike), True Way overrunning the CDF because Starfleet had to pull their peacekeepers out, no support whatsoever for New Romulus coming under attack by the Elachi because Starfleet needs every ship elsewhere... need I go on?
What we're seeing instead is something more akin to the Star Kingdom of Manticore midway through the war with Haven when they graduated 10,000 cadets from the Academy on the normal schedule, and, key point, promoted them on the normal schedule. They ramped up quantity, they didn't fast-track a bunch of greenhorns.
I don't get the Star Kingdom reference....however you are right...things are dire. According to the tutorial we are fighting a multi pronged war with the Klingons, Romulans and Borg. The fact that both the Klingons and Borg attacked deep in the heart of the Federation should showcase that Starfleet manning is down. Is there really a need for a 3-6 month training cruise if ship, crew and Captain performed exemplary in the face of multiple crisis?
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Kirk went from Cadet to Captain after one mission :P
Besides we're kinda like this generation's Kirk or Picard...
While we try to apply real world logic to a fictional entity the real fact remains is we don't know, canonically, how long it takes someone in Starfleet to advance to Captain.
As I said before every promotion we got in this game is not regular cycle promotions. They are promotions for going above and beyond numerous times.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Besides we're kinda like this generation's Kirk or Picard...
See above for Kirk, and Picard got command of the Stargazer as a lieutenant commander and stayed on that one ship for like 12 years. He was in his fifties or sixties when he made captain.
I don't get the Star Kingdom reference....however you are right...things are dire. According to the tutorial we are fighting a multi pronged war with the Klingons, Romulans and Borg. The fact that both the Klingons and Borg attacked deep in the heart of the Federation should showcase that Starfleet manning is down. Is there really a need for a 3-6 month training cruise if ship, crew and Captain performed exemplary in the face of multiple crisis?
I was referring to David Weber's Honor Harrington novels.
And you misunderstand. Things are not that dire. The Borg made a bunch of random probing attacks that did little large-scale damage, the Romulans wasted most of their fleet in three decades of civil wars, lost most of their population in Hobus, and blew most of the rest of their ships in a brain-dead attack on Vulcan because Sela's an obsessive moron*, and Starfleet is easily holding back the Klingons in the border regions outside of the odd raid.
Sure, by all means, make an exemplary officer captain in ten years instead of twenty. But 18 months to a fleet admiral (without a fleet, I might add) is a patent absurdity of Mary Sue proportions.
* This is the same person who tried to invade Vulcan with freighters carrying 2,000 troops, remember? At least she used actual warships this time.
While we try to apply real world logic to a fictional entity the real fact remains is we don't know, canonically, how long it takes someone in Starfleet to advance to Captain.
As I said before every promotion we got in this game is not regular cycle promotions. They are promotions for going above and beyond numerous times.
So give us a huge rack of medals and have us promoted as soon as possible every time. But you're still not going from green ensign to fleet admiral in 18 months. You're going from ensign to lieutenant junior grade, that's it.
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I don't get the Star Kingdom reference....however you are right...things are dire. According to the tutorial we are fighting a multi pronged war with the Klingons, Romulans and Borg. The fact that both the Klingons and Borg attacked deep in the heart of the Federation should showcase that Starfleet manning is down. Is there really a need for a 3-6 month training cruise if ship, crew and Captain performed exemplary in the face of multiple crisis?
Read the Honor Harrington books. At the time the heroine Honor graduated her naval academy she was in a class of 250. By the time the major war is going full steam about 40 years later and she's and admiral(in that book series they have prolong keeps you alive a further 2 centuries) the graduating class is 10000 cadets.
And even with the 3 front war we tend to forget the federation has trillions of life forms inside it's borders, you're going to tell me the Federation is so incompetent we are losing ships and personnel that fast but haven't been flatly beaten?
That's what we call a plot hole and bad writing.
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In an ideal Star Trek game, you would start out as a Commander (and first officer) in the tutorial. Then in the tutorial, your captain dies and you get a field promotion to Captain/acting Captain. You are then a Captain for the rest of the game as you level.
There are various fixes that can be used for game logic that I feel would be a better compromise. You could have game leveling take place over symbolic years. You can have players start out as Commander.
One idea I've pitched before that would be difficult to implement NOW but which I think would be a very strong choice for a Trek game and especially for an MMO:
An enemy had an amnesia weapon and brainwashing tech. I would actually make this the basis for much of the setting and story.
I'd have the player start off as a captain who's been hit with the amnesia weapon, wiping their memory clean.
I'd start off with the player under care/investigation on their Homeworld when an attack hits. You re-learn how to command a ship in the tutorial but also actually learn what your faction IS.
I'd basically have an introduction to the concept of Star Trek and how the shows relate in there for the genuinely new fan. "In the 21st century, war left the planet earth decimated until a scientist testing a faster than light spacecraft attracted the attention of the Vulcan race. In the 22nd century, humanity took to the stars. A hundred years later they discovered strange new worlds. In the 24th century, the powers of half of the galaxy were united by common interests and threats from the distant Delta and Gamma Quadrants. Today, those alliances stand on the brink." And have cutscenes of the various eras/uniforms. Introduce that. In the tutorial. That way if someone has seen nothing, they understand the setting. If they have seen 5 TNG episodes, they get a feel for the chronology relative to the other shows.
Anyway, you have amnesia but are basically relearning your skills. You've been temporarily busted down to cadet/ensign but since you were already a high ranking officer before the amnesia, things come more naturally and people are eager to get you back into service. Maybe even eager enough to give you credit you don't fully deserve and throw you back into situations you aren't ready for.
And with it being an amnesia weapon, there can be millions or even billions afflicted and you can do lots of Star Trek style stories growing out from that that deal with war, peace, love, identity. What happens when you have Romulans and Vulcans on a single planet who forget who they are and don't know they're different species? What is a Klingon who no longer has any knowledge of Klingon honor?
Our real world doesn't have the equivalent of Borg Cubes. We would have to imagine a single ship that is capable of destroying a carrier even while he's defended by a huge support group.
The Admiral sat on his personal flagship, which is usually a very safe place.
He is not sitting on a desk in a remote Starbase because he has valuable command experience that is needed in a battle, to direct the defense forces trying to stop the Borg, not to read after action reports (especally since the Wolf 359 after action reports would have looked suspiciously like a Borg Cube, instead of the normally more practical handheld PADD).
After Wolf 359, there was no fleet left that our heroes could take the charge off.
After Sector 001 there was a fleet left, and Picard did take charge.
In neither scenario did they really do anything riskier than the Admirals did - they just did something different that happened to work.
You are correct sir, I haven't served in the navy. But I do know that the Admiral would be on the safest ship in the strike force and that he would not transfer to less protected ship if the strike force were engaging enemy fleets and aircraft. I can safely assume he would be in the carrier's cic working with the captain and strategists trying to find the best direct course of action that has the most minimal friendly casualties and does not put the entire fleet in harms way.
For example, if a large enemy fleet was quickly approaching and consisted of 2 carriers, 6 cruisers, 12 destroyers, 10 missile frigates, 3 fast attack subs with nuclear capabilities, and the admiral knows their carriers have nuclear capabilities for their aircraft that could wipe out his entire fleet with just just a formation of enemy fighters, and don't forget the subs, do you not agree that the Admiral would send out a distress call and order his strike force to retreat at emergency or flank speed?
As for an admiral behind his desk on a starbase, he could have an extensive array of monitors and consoles where he can see vantage points of all ships and all required data of the battle streaming on several screens and consoles? He could even be in a holodeck on his flagship giving the fleet orders as if he was personally there.
As for the admiral on the fleet at wolf 359, I clearly stated that the admiral's ship should have fallen back to a safer distance and have their warp engines on hot standby and power to shields, where he could view the battle and view what other captain's view screens are showing them. He could safely wage a battle without endangering himself. Once the cube had destroyed 4/5's of the fleet and it was obvious there was no course of action except retreat, he could warp away with another ship that was assigned to protect the flagship or act as a courier or minute man to SFC if the borg jammed communications. I never said any ships survived Wolf 359 I think. I'll have to go back and check.
Now if he was at a safe distance and the cube plowed through the other ships to target his ship directly he may have a problem getting out of that one. That didn't seem to be the case though. As the admiral was talking to Riker over the Enterprise's viewscreen, the admiral's ship was shaking and then the transmission was cut as if the admiral's ship was just destroyed. Now unless the admiral's ship was a galaxy-class starship maybe he could get a little closer. But that cube destroyed some of starfleet's most advanced starships in a matter of minutes except for the Enterprise-D.
And again like you agreed, at Sector 001 the fleet was decimated but still had some advanced starships left, especially the defiant, Admiral Hayes should have been coordinating the battle from a distance. Only if the Admiral could not escape to regroup with reinforcements, should he engage the cube and attempt to cause some structural damage to it to buy time for reinforcements. Losing an officer with that kind of command experience would be a heavy blow to Starfleet.
Plus who would issue orders to the reinforcements once they arrived? A commander does no one any good if he's dead. His forces most likely fall into disarray as was seen by the Enterprise-E when it reached the battle. Picard had to take the admiral's place and luckily he knew right where to hit the cube. Even if he didn't, he was the most experienced captain there that had dealt with the borg before not to mention the knowledge and tactics they use. In fact, being linked with them as Locutus, gave him the technical layout of a borg cube and all of its functions. He knew where the vulnerabilities were and used it to destroy the cube.
If he had never been abducted and turned into Locutus he still might have been able to destroy that cube with the deflector pulse they invented. But when the borg return to sector 001, he would have no knowledge of the cube's vulnerabilities and I believe that even the Enterprise would have been eventually destroyed. They had to hit it in it's achilles heel in order to destroy it.
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No he didn't. Prime Kirk spent 18 years in Starfleet before making captain, and he was still the youngest O-6 in the history of the service.
And JJ Kirk was promoted from Cadet to Captain after one mission. Just another reason to dislike JJ Trek IMO along with lens flares, interstellar beaming that makes ships obsolete, and magic blood that heals any injury.
MMORPG is all about immersion hence ROLE PLAYING GAME. .
Star Trek Online is not a role-playing game at all. It actually saddens me that people have so little familiarity with what role-playing is, that they would mistake a game with a fixed, linear narrative, for a role-playing game.
Regarding the admirals, the way I have that set up in my story is that the commander of the 77th, Fleet Admiral ch'Harrell, commands all of the Starfleet forces in the Cardassian Union from his fleet base. He has a vice admiral who serves under him, Berat (the exchange officer I mentioned earlier in the thread) who actually goes out into the field and oversees major engagements and also does what you might call "PR" work. The flagship is a Vesta class, and while it does engage in combat, it would typically be found in a more protected place in the formation. In contrast, Captain Strannik commands a Phoenix-variant escort and would be found in a more dangerous place in an engagement if not actually taking point.
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No he didn't. Prime Kirk spent 18 years in Starfleet before making captain, and he was still the youngest O-6 in the history of the service.
See above for Kirk, and Picard got command of the Stargazer as a lieutenant commander and stayed on that one ship for like 12 years. He was in his fifties or sixties when he made captain.
Sorry, the answer is still no.
I was referring to David Weber's Honor Harrington novels.
And you misunderstand. Things are not that dire. The Borg made a bunch of random probing attacks that did little large-scale damage, the Romulans wasted most of their fleet in three decades of civil wars, lost most of their population in Hobus, and blew most of the rest of their ships in a brain-dead attack on Vulcan because Sela's an obsessive moron*, and Starfleet is easily holding back the Klingons in the border regions outside of the odd raid.
Sure, by all means, make an exemplary officer captain in ten years instead of twenty. But 18 months to a fleet admiral (without a fleet, I might add) is a patent absurdity of Mary Sue proportions.
* This is the same person who tried to invade Vulcan with freighters carrying 2,000 troops, remember? At least she used actual warships this time.
So give us a huge rack of medals and have us promoted as soon as possible every time. But you're still not going from green ensign to fleet admiral in 18 months. You're going from ensign to lieutenant junior grade, that's it.
That was Prime Kirk...people want more JJTrek in STO...well their you go...a piece of JJTrek in STO...can receive rapid promotions quickly just like in JJTrek!
Plus you forget top of the class cadets may be higher ranked than Ensign!
And in case you thought I was replying to a post of yours I wasn't...it was just a general joke to the OP...
But truth of the matter is it's JJTrek to get fast promotions...so people shouldn't complain so much since they want more JJTrek :P
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Before I show proof of admirals dying in both Wolf 359 and Sector 001 I want to address the LT to FADM in a matter of months. Using the 21st century as an example. Back during WW I and WW II, The need for soldiers and officers became so great that they started taking anyone they could find. If you could hold a gun and survive a few weeks of training, you became a soldier. In WW I it eventually got so bad that people with college educations, such as a grade school math teacher was made a Major or Colonel and given command of a Platoon or Company.
In WW II time's got desperate for the United States after Pearl. A large sum of Army Air Corps soldiers as well as Army Infantry soldiers, didn't receive the required training they needed to preform their occupation effectively. They were fast tracked to the front lines. As for the training centers for these soldiers, they were at an all time low of competent officer and NCO's to train the recruits properly and efficiently. They were more concerned with meeting quota. Basic was usually 6 weeks before the war.
After the attack on Pearl, the need for more soldiers rose even higher. The same applied to the Marine Corps. In the pacific campaign soldiers and marines may have only had 3 to 4 weeks of basic training or less. They were loaded into amphibious assault vehicles and stormed the beaches of japanese occupied islands. A lot of service men were never properly trained or prepared to act under extreme stress or fear. That can also be said with trained service men as well. A lot of the young soldiers and marines were killed by enemy forces because they didn't have the training they needed to act without thinking. An example would be a frightened soldier that ran and exposed himself to enemy fire. Another would be improperly trained soldiers that would shoot at anything that moved, causing friendly fire casualties.
Sometimes they would give away their position by opening fire on an enemy because they saw an opportunity to kill them, when they should have remained concealed. Seeing their muzzleflash, the enemy could then throw grenades, fire machine guns, launch mortars, or use sharp shooters to pick off the soldiers as they ran. These are things you learn in basic if you aren't rushed through it. Keeping tab's on friendlies, trying your best to ID potential soldiers to see if they are friendly or enemy, trying to be fully aware of where you are pointing your rifle or sidearm, proper usage of cover and camouflage, when not to fire your weapon, and to try not to run off if you get scared (Deserters are guilty of treason and should be given the death sentence. Brave servicemen have lost their lives trying to find, track down, and recover a deserter).
That being said, there are several examples in the 21st century during wartime when resources, soldiers, and officers to lead them, become so scarce that they will take short cuts and give people without proper training officer positions. Now imaging this war we're in against the klingons and the borg. The entire klingon armada is trying to take over federation colonies. The Borg has returned in force to try to retake the alpha quadrant. The Tal Shiar plotting as usual. The Undine have also returned with a vengeance along with the Elachi, Voth, Vaaduar, and now the Iconians.
When Empress Sela's Scimitar was tractored into a vortex by an Iconian ship that just destroyed two borg cubes with two shots, we saw an enemy (far worse then the borg or undine), that we were eventually going to have to face. With the Klinks, Feds, and Roms in a coalition, we still had some trouble with the undine and the vaaduar. Just imagine how many allied fleets will be eradicated... A task force of 10 to 20 ships destroyed. That's 10 to 20 captain's and an admiral or 2 or 3, lost in a blink of an eye.
With loses like these, the coalition will be building more ship yards so they can build more ships, junior officers will be fast tracked to captains if they show the ability to keep their cool under pressure and a natural talent for unorthodox tactics to defeat our greatest enemy yet. This is the Alpha Quadrant's WW I and II. Put a LT in a captain's chair of a small vessel and if he/she shows promise, give a more advanced vessel for him/her to use. After a few ranks and ships, it's apparent to SFC that this once field commissioned officer is capable of leading a line or wing of other ships into battle.
When that officer has several major victories due to his/her innate ability to think on their feet and coordinate multiple starships, it is now apparent that this officer has the ability to command a task force of many ships, and eventually an entire fleet. All the while the coalition is losing dozens of ships a day it seems. With this officer having command experience as well as leadership and tactical experience, he/she has become an invaluable asset. They have gotten more combat experience then most captains do in their entire career under normal circumstances. Well, what rank do you have to be to give orders to captains in your task force? You guessed it, an Admiral. You continue to impress and your taskforces survive encounters where others have failed or claimed impossible.
If this officer can accomplish feats like this on a regular basis, then give this officer command of an entire fleet and watch him/her do their magic. What do you need to be to give orders to an entire fleet that has lower ranking admirals in it? Yup, a Fleet Admiral! Again with casualties being so high, the coalition is grabbing anyone that can captain a ship and have a slim but fighting chance to combat the enemy. With a fleet admiral as wise and experienced as you, you will be able to boost morale, teach others your tactics, learn to fight as one, and don't forget the fact that you're now a hero with a big flagship and every captain and admiral looks up to you and is honored to serve with you if they get the chance. Every cadet and junior officer wants to be on your ship. Because of this, you have your pick of the smartest and most creative personnel to handpick from.
That is how you go from impressing a Fleet Admiral by single handedly fighting off a few borg ships, being the one that discover the borg invasion, saved a group of civilian freighter from certain doom at the hands of the borg, you and only one other officer beaming down to a borg infested planet, risking your lives to help save colonist, single handedly destroying a giant borg drone protecting a device that is blocking all communication, fighting it out with a borg cube until reinforcements arrive, being a part of the task force that destroyed that cube, made it back to ESD and went to see Admiral Quinn who is in charge of coordinating all starfleet missions and assignments.
The admiral was right about one thing: You accomplished obstacles that should have broken you, you followed starfleet regulations and the mission to protect federation citizens, you proved yourself commanding a starship against the borg, and with your temporary leadership your crew did an outstanding job, for cadets. The Admiral desperately needs people with your initiative and bravery. Rank isn't part of the picture when it comes down to having experienced captains. Rank is only required for the chain of command and being given the rank of captain or admiral in no way automatically makes that officer an experienced person. You have to have the experience before you get your rank in this case.
The admiral isn't about to make you captain of a galaxy class right off the bat. But he want's to see how you preform in a ship that's destruction is a minimal loss to the current number of ships that are powerful enough to engage the Undine, Vaaduar, and Iconians. After being promoted for your excellence, you are trusted with more advanced ships and sent on riskier assignments. Your ship is bigger and has a larger crew complement and that means more room for officers. Instead of having a LT or Ltcdr. as your number one, you now have a cdr. as your first officer.
Since the war is still on and there is a shortage of captains that can successfully fight the enemy, the admiral decides it's time to give you an advanced starship and possible escort ships to form a wing and engage the enemy on the front lines. And since you are doing so well that other admirals and captains are talking about your accomplishments, the admiral decided to give you command of a task force. After success with that, he need's someone that can coordinate an entire fleet. And with your abilities, experience, and reputation you would be a top candidate for that position. The admiral now knows that if he want's something done, you will make it happen or die trying. You have now gained Admiral Quinns complete respect as an officer and as a reliable person he can set loose and know that you will clean up the mess on your own. Congradulations!!! You are now a Fleet Admiral with autonomy, able to pick and choose your battles and missions, all of which benefit the coalition, of course.
Battle of Wolf 359: 2367
At the battle of Wolf 359 Admiral J.P. Hanson with a fleet of 40 ships with more on the way, intercepted the cube at Wolf 359. Even the Klingon's had dispatched warship to Wolf 359 to help but they didn't make it in time. Asking for assistance from the Romulans was heavily being considered. In 2367, around the stardate of 44002.3, Locutus' cube entered Wolf 359 and ordered the ships to lower their shields, disarm their weapons, and escort his cube to earth.
The fleet engaged the borg and the Melbourne, the ship's chair that was offered to Riker earlier, was the first to go. After minutes of fighting the fleet was practically decimated. The admiral tried to rally the survivors to make a final assault on the cube but his and all of the remaining ships were destroyed. Memory Alpha clearly state's the fate of Admiral Hanson pertaining to the battle of Woulf 359.
Battle of Sector 001: 2373
Another borg cube was sent to earth in another attempt to assimilate earth. One unexpected variable in this battle was that the borg queen was on the cube. Vice Admiral Hayes contacted Picard on a priority one frequency to inform him that the borg were spotted in the alpha quadrant. As you know, the Admiral insisted that Picard and the federation's newest and most advanced ship plot a course for the Romulan Neutral Zone to make sure the Romulans didn't use the opportunity to attack.
Picard informed the bridge crew of the situation and almost all of them objected to the admiral's orders. "The Enterprise is the most advanced ship in starfleet" La Forge stated. Picard explained to them that it wasn't the crew in question, but that starfleet didn't want Picard to be faced by the borg again due to his previous encounter. They saw him as a liability.
As you also should remember, once the Enterprise arrived at the battle only a few ships were left. Troi informs the captain that "the admiral's ship has been destroyed." Picard took command of the remaining ships and ordered them to target a location on the cube that seemed to be a nonvital system. Data just had to let the captain know it appeared to be a nonvital system. Picard told Data to trust him. Riker tapped on the console on the arm of his chair and informed Picard that "the fleet is responding..." That's when he gave the order to all ships to fire on the cube.
A sovereign-class (Enterprise-E), an akira-class, a steamrunner-class, and a norway-class opened fire on the cube and destroyed it. These ships were assumed to be the only ships left with starfleet crews still alive on them. It was also stated that the Defiant was adrift but salvageable. Being a "tough little ship," it wasn't surprising it could take a cube's explosion Remember how "tough" it was during the Dominion Wars? Then as you know, Picard ordered Lt. Hawk a pursuit course after the queen's sphere as it vanished into a chroniton vortex. We know the rest from there.
Admiral's Getting Killed
There is one thing I don't understand. Admiral's have years of command experience and are very hard to replace. Why does Star Trek always have the task force commander engage the borg with their own flagship? They should fall back to observe the battle and control the fleet from there. Two admiral's could have been saved on two occasions if they had retreated once the fleets were almost destroyed.
I know it seems like a cowardly thing to do, but if those admirals had survived, they could have provided invaluable information and insight on how to fight the borg in future invasions. Instead, the only bridge officers worth mentioning, that fought and survived the borg to give future insight were Picard, Shelby, Riker, Worf, Janeway and Seven of Nine, Kim, Tuvok, Paris, Torres, Chakotay, Troi, La Forge, Data, Crusher, and the other crews that survived the Battle of Sector 001.
Each of the above were seen on the bridge during an encounter with the borg and saw first hand what a cube looks like when its attacking other ships, meaning they didn't find out by word of mouth like regular crewmen did. IRL, our Generals and Admirals are protected by several types of defense and countermeasures. A general would never go to the front lines along side infantry and shoot at the enemy. An Admiral doesn't board the Arleigh Burke destroyer he just sent to engage in a high risk assignment.
The general stays at the Main HQ or in a well protected FOB or Camp. The Admiral sit's behind a desk or is on a carrier surrounded by ships that can defeat air, land, and sea threats from a distance. I believe the reason they kill the admiral's off is so the captain of the hero ship can take his place and succeed where the admiral could not, by taking even more riskier actions then the admiral did.
Sorry I made you write all that, I kno wthe admirals died, I was just saying that we dont know what ship the admiral is on. As for why admirals died... Well it is the borg, real World doesn't have ships that can take out a whole fleet by it self.
Hast thou not gone against sincerity
Hast thou not felt ashamed of thy words and deeds
Hast thou not lacked vigor
Hast thou exerted all possible efforts
Hast thou not become slothful
Essentially, I think it was a mistake to associate character level with rank. The character should become "captain" after the tutorial, and remain "captain" thereafter.
Your character being the only character in the story canonically means you are the only one skyrocketing through the ranks as you turn things like. "Lost track of this ship. Oh pirates? Alright well go be a taxi. . . Undine huh? Well look at this cloud in space. . . .Klingons. . . master plans. . .uh huh.
Head quarters is just waiting for the report that your Vulcan science officer just had his brain stolen as you seem to be a karmic trouble magnet.
Yeah, that played into the stories I've written for the Literary Challenges in Ten Forward. One of the senior officers, when they were being sent on another "milk run", was complaining about their luck - "Take this diplomat from Vulcan to P'jem. Oh, by the way, did we mention he's an Undine? Go check on the diplomatic conference at Regulus - and be sure to bring along someone to defuse the diplomat's bombs! Deliver a load of new officers to Task Force Omega, and mind the Borg drone, it's not quite deactivated!* Next time they offer you a milk run, sir, can you please volunteer for something less dangerous? Maybe giving the Borg Queen a manicure?"
Remember, after all, that your character is the Special Snowflake to whom all the weirdness happens, and the one who's rocketing up the ranks at a ludicrous rate. It's not like Lt. Paris gets kidnapped by Klingons and taken to the past twice a week or anything, you know. Kind of like in CO, Zed, where no matter how many toons you make, each one is the only one who took down Kevin Poe, the one who cleared up the crisis situation in either Canada or the Desert, the one who put a stop to Menton's riot at the superjail, the one who inadvertently caused the Apocalypse and then went back in time to stop it. The story happens to your character, and your character only - and when you make another character, the story happens to that one instead.
*A reference to something that occurred in an earlier story, not in-game, but it was part of his rant.
My main quited as a ground force/army special forces trooper and joined starfleet... That is why he is good at fighting on the ground and why he can rise through rank so fast(though all the way to an admiral is beyond me).
Shame MACO is part of starfleet ingame, otherwise a ex-MACO starfleet officer would be awesome.
That's one of the things that's bugged me, MACO being part of starfleet in the game. MACO IS NOT STARFLEET! I've always of the MACO like the US Marines, part of the Navy but still their own orginization. MACO is part of Starfleet but still their own orginization. In my own little world, that's how it still is. Not one of my Fed captains is part of MACO but some of them do have MACO on their ships. In fact, one of them, their Elisa Flores is a MACO... explaination, Marine officers attend the US Naval Academy with others going into the Navy, so it's possible MACO officers can go to Starfleet Academy with Starfleet officers too.
There is also one thing that most people are forgetting that I haven't seen mentioned (though it is possible I missed it as I haven't read every single post). You are alone, you are the only other player in the story line. I'm not there, the guy standing next to you isn't there, the one parting it up at the club isn't there. It's just you. You're the only super Federation/Romulan/Klingon out there. This is your story, only we all have it, but it's just you. Starfleet does not have a million and one Admirals that were promoted from cadet to Admiral in 18 months, just one... you.
There is also one thing that most people are forgetting that I haven't seen mentioned (though it is possible I missed it as I haven't read every single post). You are alone, you are the only other player in the story line. I'm not there, the guy standing next to you isn't there, the one parting it up at the club isn't there. It's just you. You're the only super Federation/Romulan/Klingon out there. This is your story, only we all have it, but it's just you. Starfleet does not have a million and one Admirals that were promoted from cadet to Admiral in 18 months, just one... you.
And even in this solo story 18 months from bottom of the barrel to top of the pack? Umm no. Picard as captain of the Enterprise D & E did more than our singular hero what was he the whole time? oh that's right captain of the Enterprise.
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You are alone, you are the only other player in the story line. I'm not there, the guy standing next to you isn't there, the one parting it up at the club isn't there. It's just you. You're the only super Federation/Romulan/Klingon out there. This is your story, only we all have it, but it's just you. Starfleet does not have a million and one Admirals that were promoted from cadet to Admiral in 18 months, just one... you.
This is exactly why I say STO isn't a role-playing game. The storyline cannot form the basis for interactions between player characters, because each character's storyline is explicitly unique, but exactly the same as every other character's (at least in that faction). The players share experiences of the gameplay, but their characters cannot. Any interactions between characters has to ignore or deny the storyline explored through gameplay, so any role-playing must be explicitly disconnected from gameplay.
And even in this solo story 18 months from bottom of the barrel to top of the pack? Umm no. Picard as captain of the Enterprise D & E did more than our singular hero what was he the whole time? oh that's right captain of the Enterprise.
But Picard didn't singlehandedly stop a plot by a crazed Klingon to rewrite history in order to eliminate the Federation, nor did he uncover the horrible truth behind a major disaster affecting most of the quadrant, nor did he lead the force retaking DS9 from a time-lost Dominion attack fleet, nor did he... well, all the other stuff we did. The only one he could lay claim to was singlehandedly derailing a Romulan plot to invade Federation space (when he stopped Sela's plan to take troopships to seize Vulcan, apparently under the impression that neither Vulcan nor the Federation at large would dare oppose a mere token garrison of a few hundred Romulan troops).
You really are that special. You've saved the galaxy more times than some captains have changed their shirts, and proved your ability to command anything from a broken-down Miranda to a top-line cruiser in the most stressful of situations. If he were alive today, you'd be Kirk's personal hero. Commendations and promotions are the very least Starfleet can do for you.
Essentially, I think it was a mistake to associate character level with rank. The character should become "captain" after the tutorial, and remain "captain" thereafter.
This, very much this. Ranks above captain should only have bearing within a players fleet.
Even if each 10 levels unlocked a title and you could choose which one you used as you went up and level, that would be in improvement, although only a superficial one.
Commodore, Rear Admiral, Admiral, Fleet Admiral, should all be titles tied to a players fleet in the leadership within that organization, not lvl.
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Regarding the admirals, the way I have that set up in my story is that the commander of the 77th, Fleet Admiral ch'Harrell, commands all of the Starfleet forces in the Cardassian Union from his fleet base. He has a vice admiral who serves under him, Berat (the exchange officer I mentioned earlier in the thread) who actually goes out into the field and oversees major engagements and also does what you might call "PR" work. The flagship is a Vesta class, and while it does engage in combat, it would typically be found in a more protected place in the formation. In contrast, Captain Strannik commands a Phoenix-variant escort and would be found in a more dangerous place in an engagement if not actually taking point.
This is the exact idea I tried to point out earlier. The Fleet Admiral stays at a well protected base of operations. He/she has admirals and captains that carry out his/her orders. He/she relies on his/her admirals in the field to make the proper decisions and to keep him/her updated.
Sorry I made you write all that, I kno wthe admirals died, I was just saying that we dont know what ship the admiral is on. As for why admirals died... Well it is the borg, real World doesn't have ships that can take out a whole fleet by it self.
No it's ok k20vtech, lol. I actually had some fun writing it. I admit I had to look up the dates and a few details, but most of it was from memory. It's very rare that I get to show my knowledge of star trek. No one is ever interested or asks, and only people on STO are able to play trivia games with me. Everyone I know IRL thinks TNG stars Captain Kirk and Spock instead of Picard and Riker. And even worse, one person I know thought the USS Enterprise was in the Star Wars universe, part of the Galactic Empire, and was Darth Vader's command ship.
"Being a troll myself, I classify this malcontent as a Type-2 Oblivious Troll. My reasons for coming to this conclusion are: The annoying colored text he deploys, the contradictory threads he creates, the excessive whining and foot stamping, the amusement factor of his threads, and the apparent lack of realization that he is in fact a troll, like me, and is not the heart broken, victimized, player, he sees himself as."
As for the topic of there not being any ships IRL that can wipe out an entire fleet, guess again. An aircraft carrier or fast attack submarine have the ability to release a nuclear device on top of or below an enemy fleet. With today's advancements in hydrogen bomb and warhead yields, a single torpedo or missile could easily wipe out a fleet. If they can take out a small city, then they can take out a tightly nit fleet.
Now I know this isn't the same as the borg and having to fight them up close like the old naval battles. But in WW II, U-Boats sank quite a few ships including a passenger liner. Wolf packs attacked allied fleets and tried to sink the battleships, destroyers, and carrier.
And if a main battle tank with ablative armor plating, gyroscopic aiming, and a fast cruising speed took on 20 WW II Sherman Tanks, the modern the tank would out maneuver, reload faster, and have larger and more advanced HEAT rounds at its disposal. The early Shermans had to have their turrets manually rotated I believe. Even if they didn't, the gunner had to manually keep a fix on his target. Not to mention the fact that they could not penetrate the front armor of a Panzer and later a Tiger. I used a modern tank as an example of the vast advanced technology assimilated by the borg. And WW 2 tanks to signify the less advanced and less durable ships trying to defend earth.
The TRIBBLE's were working on a prototype tank. A super tiger tank with the largest caliber to be fielded at the time. Its armor would be so thick that no allied tank could destroy it... Only immobilize it by shooting the super tiger's tracks out from under it. This would have been the Axis Borg Cube to our little Sherman and Churchill tanks. It would pick us off one by one.
"Being a troll myself, I classify this malcontent as a Type-2 Oblivious Troll. My reasons for coming to this conclusion are: The annoying colored text he deploys, the contradictory threads he creates, the excessive whining and foot stamping, the amusement factor of his threads, and the apparent lack of realization that he is in fact a troll, like me, and is not the heart broken, victimized, player, he sees himself as."
But Picard didn't singlehandedly stop a plot by a crazed Klingon to rewrite history in order to eliminate the Federation, nor did he uncover the horrible truth behind a major disaster affecting most of the quadrant, nor did he lead the force retaking DS9 from a time-lost Dominion attack fleet, nor did he... well, all the other stuff we did. The only one he could lay claim to was singlehandedly derailing a Romulan plot to invade Federation space (when he stopped Sela's plan to take troopships to seize Vulcan, apparently under the impression that neither Vulcan nor the Federation at large would dare oppose a mere token garrison of a few hundred Romulan troops).
You really are that special. You've saved the galaxy more times than some captains have changed their shirts, and proved your ability to command anything from a broken-down Miranda to a top-line cruiser in the most stressful of situations. If he were alive today, you'd be Kirk's personal hero. Commendations and promotions are the very least Starfleet can do for you.
OK let's give a great example here. Audie Murphy. In WWII he received EVER SINGLE medal for Valor the US Military could bestow. Did more than most in WWII. Did they make him a General?
No, he got a battle promotion to LT but it ended up not being confirmed and he was reduced to Sgt.
Or another example Honor Harrington. Twice stopped her nation from kicking off a war early, got promoted to senior captain.
Wasn't till waaaaaaayyyyy later on that she got jumped to admiral, but she did engineer the biggest prison break out in history. And by that point yes she got fast tracked to commodore, still took her YEARS to hit commodore.
Just because we do heroic things does not mean we are admiral material. Still have to go through proper seasoning, get proper command experience, actually learn the 1001 things an admiral has to do.
Can't learn that in 18 months pal. We should of been like Audie Murphy. Maybe hot captain, but a chest full of awards to show how good we are.
Edit: Just because you do heroic things does not make you ready to lead a fleet into combat, know strategy, how to use a fleet to win or any of it. Just makes you a freaking superstar hero.
I mean in the movie the Avengers, captain America helps save the world, that make him a general capable of leading an army on the spot into battle and know everything he needs to know about how far he can move it, how he keeps beans bullets and band aids moving to the front or anything else a general needs to know?
No he doesn't, and in 18 months neither does our hero. Hero does not equal Flag level officer.
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Or another example Honor Harrington. Twice stopped her nation from kicking off a war early, got promoted to senior captain.
Wasn't till waaaaaaayyyyy later on that she got jumped to admiral, but she did engineer the biggest prison break out in history. And by that point yes she got fast tracked to commodore, still took her YEARS to hit commodore.
Minor correction here, by that point she was already a one-star. She got her first star in Honor Among Enemies when she was in charge of that squadron of Q-ships, remember? (Not counting her being in field command of half the Grayson Space Navy in the previous book, since that's a different service.)
Just because we do heroic things does not mean we are admiral material. Still have to go through proper seasoning, get proper command experience, actually learn the 1001 things an admiral has to do.
Can't learn that in 18 months pal. We should of been like Audie Murphy. Maybe hot captain, but a chest full of awards to show how good we are.
Edit: Just because you do heroic things does not make you ready to lead a fleet into combat, know strategy, how to use a fleet to win or any of it. Just makes you a freaking superstar hero.
I mean in the movie the Avengers, captain America helps save the world, that make him a general capable of leading an army on the spot into battle and know everything he needs to know about how far he can move it, how he keeps beans bullets and band aids moving to the front or anything else a general needs to know?
No he doesn't, and in 18 months neither does our hero. Hero does not equal Flag level officer.
To condense it down, you can't learn to command men in a classroom. It just doesn't work that way. Talent must be tempered by experience. Again I point to Prime Kirk, who took 18 years to make captain and was still the youngest man to ever hold the grade in the history of Starfleet.
Now, if you want a way to make the current tutorial make sense, by all means, have your guy stomp a bunch of Borg and get a battlefield commission. Then time-skip fifteen years or so, like they bloody well should've done at the end of ST2009. (But then they would've had to do something actually creative in the sequel instead of retreading TWOK. ) And you're still not going to be a fleet admiral.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
To condense it down, you can't learn to command men in a classroom. It just doesn't work that way. Talent must be tempered by experience. Again I point to Prime Kirk, who took 18 years to make captain and was still the youngest man to ever hold the grade in the history of Starfleet.
Of course Picard became Captain at the age of 28 only 6 years post Academy graduation.
And Kirk did not take 18 years. He graduated the Academy in 2257 and became Captain of the Enterprise in 2265 at the age of 32. Thus 8 years after the Academy.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
And Kirk did not take 18 years. He graduated the Academy in 2257 and became Captain of the Enterprise in 2265 at the age of 32. Thus 8 years after the Academy.
Plus as someone on another trek site pointed out Kirk was pretty young for a starship captain seeing as all the other ones had grey hair.
No one promotes the same way. Everyone doesn't make captain in the same amount of time. Some promote faster, some slower.
Just because Kirk or Picard did it in a certain amount of time doesn't mean anything.
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No one promotes the same way. Everyone doesn't make captain in the same amount of time. Some promote faster, some slower.
Just because Kirk or Picard did it in a certain amount of time doesn't mean anything.
No one is really saying it means anything. Star Trek is fiction. The writers had the characters get promoted however they wished. There was no reality involved. People throwing out all these "real world" examples are only deluding themselves. We are talking about a show where one of the smartest people in Starfleet, AKA Spock, did not even remember his species has dual eyelids because the story needed him to forget it to add drama/tension to the episode.
There is nothing real about Star Trek and the next Captain in a TV show might make that Rank at 25 because the writers want him to be younger then Picard. It is all writer's fiat.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Now, if you want a way to make the current tutorial make sense, by all means, have your guy stomp a bunch of Borg and get a battlefield commission. Then time-skip fifteen years or so, like they bloody well should've done at the end of ST2009. (But then they would've had to do something actually creative in the sequel instead of retreading TWOK. ) And you're still not going to be a fleet admiral.
A few times in the past i had mentioned how they could have made it so that you getting your first ship made more sense. Changing the story a little bit, but it might have also required changing the rank structure which they probably definately wont do.
It would be similar to how the Fallout3 tutorial worked. Game fades in and you are a baby and you are learning about WASD movement. It fades out and back in again and you are now 10 years old having a birthday party and learning about basic combat shooting a BB gun at a cockroach. Fades out and back in again and you are 18 years old taking the final aptitude test, learning how to do melee combat and then you break out of the shelter and start playing the game.
STO could have you doing tutorial Cadet stuff at SFA you go to your first ship and get your first promotion to Ensign. Then fade out and back in and text on the screen shows the date and its a few years later where you are now a Lt doing more tutorial stuff like leading an away team or maybe briefly taking the helm of the ship during a night shift and you encounter some trouble and after it is mostly taken care of the Captain and First Officer are up and awake and have made their way to the bridge. Fade out and back in and the screen shows that the stardate is a few more years later. You are now a LCdr and the first officer of a Miranda or BoP. This is where the current STO story can come in. Your captain is killed in a KDF raid, or your treacherous KDF Captain is killed when you challenge him to a fight. In both cases you are then given command of the ship. But this would require them to change he minimum rank to LCdr to make sense. It can still go to Cdr-Capt-Adm-FAdm or whatever like they have it now. But they arent going to budge on the captain rank so i doubt they would budge on changing the minimum rank either. I also doubt they would change the tutorial storyline to what i mentioned or what anyone else mentions so yah...
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I don't get the Star Kingdom reference....however you are right...things are dire. According to the tutorial we are fighting a multi pronged war with the Klingons, Romulans and Borg. The fact that both the Klingons and Borg attacked deep in the heart of the Federation should showcase that Starfleet manning is down. Is there really a need for a 3-6 month training cruise if ship, crew and Captain performed exemplary in the face of multiple crisis?
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While we try to apply real world logic to a fictional entity the real fact remains is we don't know, canonically, how long it takes someone in Starfleet to advance to Captain.
As I said before every promotion we got in this game is not regular cycle promotions. They are promotions for going above and beyond numerous times.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
See above for Kirk, and Picard got command of the Stargazer as a lieutenant commander and stayed on that one ship for like 12 years. He was in his fifties or sixties when he made captain.
Sorry, the answer is still no.
I was referring to David Weber's Honor Harrington novels.
And you misunderstand. Things are not that dire. The Borg made a bunch of random probing attacks that did little large-scale damage, the Romulans wasted most of their fleet in three decades of civil wars, lost most of their population in Hobus, and blew most of the rest of their ships in a brain-dead attack on Vulcan because Sela's an obsessive moron*, and Starfleet is easily holding back the Klingons in the border regions outside of the odd raid.
Sure, by all means, make an exemplary officer captain in ten years instead of twenty. But 18 months to a fleet admiral (without a fleet, I might add) is a patent absurdity of Mary Sue proportions.
* This is the same person who tried to invade Vulcan with freighters carrying 2,000 troops, remember? At least she used actual warships this time.
So give us a huge rack of medals and have us promoted as soon as possible every time. But you're still not going from green ensign to fleet admiral in 18 months. You're going from ensign to lieutenant junior grade, that's it.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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Read the Honor Harrington books. At the time the heroine Honor graduated her naval academy she was in a class of 250. By the time the major war is going full steam about 40 years later and she's and admiral(in that book series they have prolong keeps you alive a further 2 centuries) the graduating class is 10000 cadets.
And even with the 3 front war we tend to forget the federation has trillions of life forms inside it's borders, you're going to tell me the Federation is so incompetent we are losing ships and personnel that fast but haven't been flatly beaten?
That's what we call a plot hole and bad writing.
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There are various fixes that can be used for game logic that I feel would be a better compromise. You could have game leveling take place over symbolic years. You can have players start out as Commander.
One idea I've pitched before that would be difficult to implement NOW but which I think would be a very strong choice for a Trek game and especially for an MMO:
An enemy had an amnesia weapon and brainwashing tech. I would actually make this the basis for much of the setting and story.
I'd have the player start off as a captain who's been hit with the amnesia weapon, wiping their memory clean.
I'd start off with the player under care/investigation on their Homeworld when an attack hits. You re-learn how to command a ship in the tutorial but also actually learn what your faction IS.
I'd basically have an introduction to the concept of Star Trek and how the shows relate in there for the genuinely new fan. "In the 21st century, war left the planet earth decimated until a scientist testing a faster than light spacecraft attracted the attention of the Vulcan race. In the 22nd century, humanity took to the stars. A hundred years later they discovered strange new worlds. In the 24th century, the powers of half of the galaxy were united by common interests and threats from the distant Delta and Gamma Quadrants. Today, those alliances stand on the brink." And have cutscenes of the various eras/uniforms. Introduce that. In the tutorial. That way if someone has seen nothing, they understand the setting. If they have seen 5 TNG episodes, they get a feel for the chronology relative to the other shows.
Anyway, you have amnesia but are basically relearning your skills. You've been temporarily busted down to cadet/ensign but since you were already a high ranking officer before the amnesia, things come more naturally and people are eager to get you back into service. Maybe even eager enough to give you credit you don't fully deserve and throw you back into situations you aren't ready for.
And with it being an amnesia weapon, there can be millions or even billions afflicted and you can do lots of Star Trek style stories growing out from that that deal with war, peace, love, identity. What happens when you have Romulans and Vulcans on a single planet who forget who they are and don't know they're different species? What is a Klingon who no longer has any knowledge of Klingon honor?
You are correct sir, I haven't served in the navy. But I do know that the Admiral would be on the safest ship in the strike force and that he would not transfer to less protected ship if the strike force were engaging enemy fleets and aircraft. I can safely assume he would be in the carrier's cic working with the captain and strategists trying to find the best direct course of action that has the most minimal friendly casualties and does not put the entire fleet in harms way.
For example, if a large enemy fleet was quickly approaching and consisted of 2 carriers, 6 cruisers, 12 destroyers, 10 missile frigates, 3 fast attack subs with nuclear capabilities, and the admiral knows their carriers have nuclear capabilities for their aircraft that could wipe out his entire fleet with just just a formation of enemy fighters, and don't forget the subs, do you not agree that the Admiral would send out a distress call and order his strike force to retreat at emergency or flank speed?
As for an admiral behind his desk on a starbase, he could have an extensive array of monitors and consoles where he can see vantage points of all ships and all required data of the battle streaming on several screens and consoles? He could even be in a holodeck on his flagship giving the fleet orders as if he was personally there.
As for the admiral on the fleet at wolf 359, I clearly stated that the admiral's ship should have fallen back to a safer distance and have their warp engines on hot standby and power to shields, where he could view the battle and view what other captain's view screens are showing them. He could safely wage a battle without endangering himself. Once the cube had destroyed 4/5's of the fleet and it was obvious there was no course of action except retreat, he could warp away with another ship that was assigned to protect the flagship or act as a courier or minute man to SFC if the borg jammed communications. I never said any ships survived Wolf 359 I think. I'll have to go back and check.
Now if he was at a safe distance and the cube plowed through the other ships to target his ship directly he may have a problem getting out of that one. That didn't seem to be the case though. As the admiral was talking to Riker over the Enterprise's viewscreen, the admiral's ship was shaking and then the transmission was cut as if the admiral's ship was just destroyed. Now unless the admiral's ship was a galaxy-class starship maybe he could get a little closer. But that cube destroyed some of starfleet's most advanced starships in a matter of minutes except for the Enterprise-D.
And again like you agreed, at Sector 001 the fleet was decimated but still had some advanced starships left, especially the defiant, Admiral Hayes should have been coordinating the battle from a distance. Only if the Admiral could not escape to regroup with reinforcements, should he engage the cube and attempt to cause some structural damage to it to buy time for reinforcements. Losing an officer with that kind of command experience would be a heavy blow to Starfleet.
Plus who would issue orders to the reinforcements once they arrived? A commander does no one any good if he's dead. His forces most likely fall into disarray as was seen by the Enterprise-E when it reached the battle. Picard had to take the admiral's place and luckily he knew right where to hit the cube. Even if he didn't, he was the most experienced captain there that had dealt with the borg before not to mention the knowledge and tactics they use. In fact, being linked with them as Locutus, gave him the technical layout of a borg cube and all of its functions. He knew where the vulnerabilities were and used it to destroy the cube.
If he had never been abducted and turned into Locutus he still might have been able to destroy that cube with the deflector pulse they invented. But when the borg return to sector 001, he would have no knowledge of the cube's vulnerabilities and I believe that even the Enterprise would have been eventually destroyed. They had to hit it in it's achilles heel in order to destroy it.
And JJ Kirk was promoted from Cadet to Captain after one mission. Just another reason to dislike JJ Trek IMO along with lens flares, interstellar beaming that makes ships obsolete, and magic blood that heals any injury.
Star Trek Online is not a role-playing game at all. It actually saddens me that people have so little familiarity with what role-playing is, that they would mistake a game with a fixed, linear narrative, for a role-playing game.
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That was Prime Kirk...people want more JJTrek in STO...well their you go...a piece of JJTrek in STO...can receive rapid promotions quickly just like in JJTrek!
Plus you forget top of the class cadets may be higher ranked than Ensign!
And in case you thought I was replying to a post of yours I wasn't...it was just a general joke to the OP...
But truth of the matter is it's JJTrek to get fast promotions...so people shouldn't complain so much since they want more JJTrek :P
Sorry I made you write all that, I kno wthe admirals died, I was just saying that we dont know what ship the admiral is on. As for why admirals died... Well it is the borg, real World doesn't have ships that can take out a whole fleet by it self.
Hast thou not felt ashamed of thy words and deeds
Hast thou not lacked vigor
Hast thou exerted all possible efforts
Hast thou not become slothful
Remember, after all, that your character is the Special Snowflake to whom all the weirdness happens, and the one who's rocketing up the ranks at a ludicrous rate. It's not like Lt. Paris gets kidnapped by Klingons and taken to the past twice a week or anything, you know. Kind of like in CO, Zed, where no matter how many toons you make, each one is the only one who took down Kevin Poe, the one who cleared up the crisis situation in either Canada or the Desert, the one who put a stop to Menton's riot at the superjail, the one who inadvertently caused the Apocalypse and then went back in time to stop it. The story happens to your character, and your character only - and when you make another character, the story happens to that one instead.
*A reference to something that occurred in an earlier story, not in-game, but it was part of his rant.
That's one of the things that's bugged me, MACO being part of starfleet in the game. MACO IS NOT STARFLEET! I've always of the MACO like the US Marines, part of the Navy but still their own orginization. MACO is part of Starfleet but still their own orginization. In my own little world, that's how it still is. Not one of my Fed captains is part of MACO but some of them do have MACO on their ships. In fact, one of them, their Elisa Flores is a MACO... explaination, Marine officers attend the US Naval Academy with others going into the Navy, so it's possible MACO officers can go to Starfleet Academy with Starfleet officers too.
Also, Col. West was a MACO.
And even in this solo story 18 months from bottom of the barrel to top of the pack? Umm no. Picard as captain of the Enterprise D & E did more than our singular hero what was he the whole time? oh that's right captain of the Enterprise.
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This is exactly why I say STO isn't a role-playing game. The storyline cannot form the basis for interactions between player characters, because each character's storyline is explicitly unique, but exactly the same as every other character's (at least in that faction). The players share experiences of the gameplay, but their characters cannot. Any interactions between characters has to ignore or deny the storyline explored through gameplay, so any role-playing must be explicitly disconnected from gameplay.
You really are that special. You've saved the galaxy more times than some captains have changed their shirts, and proved your ability to command anything from a broken-down Miranda to a top-line cruiser in the most stressful of situations. If he were alive today, you'd be Kirk's personal hero. Commendations and promotions are the very least Starfleet can do for you.
Even if each 10 levels unlocked a title and you could choose which one you used as you went up and level, that would be in improvement, although only a superficial one.
Commodore, Rear Admiral, Admiral, Fleet Admiral, should all be titles tied to a players fleet in the leadership within that organization, not lvl.
This is the exact idea I tried to point out earlier. The Fleet Admiral stays at a well protected base of operations. He/she has admirals and captains that carry out his/her orders. He/she relies on his/her admirals in the field to make the proper decisions and to keep him/her updated.
No it's ok k20vtech, lol. I actually had some fun writing it. I admit I had to look up the dates and a few details, but most of it was from memory. It's very rare that I get to show my knowledge of star trek. No one is ever interested or asks, and only people on STO are able to play trivia games with me. Everyone I know IRL thinks TNG stars Captain Kirk and Spock instead of Picard and Riker. And even worse, one person I know thought the USS Enterprise was in the Star Wars universe, part of the Galactic Empire, and was Darth Vader's command ship.
Now I know this isn't the same as the borg and having to fight them up close like the old naval battles. But in WW II, U-Boats sank quite a few ships including a passenger liner. Wolf packs attacked allied fleets and tried to sink the battleships, destroyers, and carrier.
And if a main battle tank with ablative armor plating, gyroscopic aiming, and a fast cruising speed took on 20 WW II Sherman Tanks, the modern the tank would out maneuver, reload faster, and have larger and more advanced HEAT rounds at its disposal. The early Shermans had to have their turrets manually rotated I believe. Even if they didn't, the gunner had to manually keep a fix on his target. Not to mention the fact that they could not penetrate the front armor of a Panzer and later a Tiger. I used a modern tank as an example of the vast advanced technology assimilated by the borg. And WW 2 tanks to signify the less advanced and less durable ships trying to defend earth.
The TRIBBLE's were working on a prototype tank. A super tiger tank with the largest caliber to be fielded at the time. Its armor would be so thick that no allied tank could destroy it... Only immobilize it by shooting the super tiger's tracks out from under it. This would have been the Axis Borg Cube to our little Sherman and Churchill tanks. It would pick us off one by one.
OK let's give a great example here. Audie Murphy. In WWII he received EVER SINGLE medal for Valor the US Military could bestow. Did more than most in WWII. Did they make him a General?
No, he got a battle promotion to LT but it ended up not being confirmed and he was reduced to Sgt.
Or another example Honor Harrington. Twice stopped her nation from kicking off a war early, got promoted to senior captain.
Wasn't till waaaaaaayyyyy later on that she got jumped to admiral, but she did engineer the biggest prison break out in history. And by that point yes she got fast tracked to commodore, still took her YEARS to hit commodore.
Just because we do heroic things does not mean we are admiral material. Still have to go through proper seasoning, get proper command experience, actually learn the 1001 things an admiral has to do.
Can't learn that in 18 months pal. We should of been like Audie Murphy. Maybe hot captain, but a chest full of awards to show how good we are.
Edit: Just because you do heroic things does not make you ready to lead a fleet into combat, know strategy, how to use a fleet to win or any of it. Just makes you a freaking superstar hero.
I mean in the movie the Avengers, captain America helps save the world, that make him a general capable of leading an army on the spot into battle and know everything he needs to know about how far he can move it, how he keeps beans bullets and band aids moving to the front or anything else a general needs to know?
No he doesn't, and in 18 months neither does our hero. Hero does not equal Flag level officer.
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http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Otherwise correct.
To condense it down, you can't learn to command men in a classroom. It just doesn't work that way. Talent must be tempered by experience. Again I point to Prime Kirk, who took 18 years to make captain and was still the youngest man to ever hold the grade in the history of Starfleet.
Now, if you want a way to make the current tutorial make sense, by all means, have your guy stomp a bunch of Borg and get a battlefield commission. Then time-skip fifteen years or so, like they bloody well should've done at the end of ST2009. (But then they would've had to do something actually creative in the sequel instead of retreading TWOK.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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And Kirk did not take 18 years. He graduated the Academy in 2257 and became Captain of the Enterprise in 2265 at the age of 32. Thus 8 years after the Academy.
Plus as someone on another trek site pointed out Kirk was pretty young for a starship captain seeing as all the other ones had grey hair.
Just because Kirk or Picard did it in a certain amount of time doesn't mean anything.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
There is nothing real about Star Trek and the next Captain in a TV show might make that Rank at 25 because the writers want him to be younger then Picard. It is all writer's fiat.
A few times in the past i had mentioned how they could have made it so that you getting your first ship made more sense. Changing the story a little bit, but it might have also required changing the rank structure which they probably definately wont do.
It would be similar to how the Fallout3 tutorial worked. Game fades in and you are a baby and you are learning about WASD movement. It fades out and back in again and you are now 10 years old having a birthday party and learning about basic combat shooting a BB gun at a cockroach. Fades out and back in again and you are 18 years old taking the final aptitude test, learning how to do melee combat and then you break out of the shelter and start playing the game.
STO could have you doing tutorial Cadet stuff at SFA you go to your first ship and get your first promotion to Ensign. Then fade out and back in and text on the screen shows the date and its a few years later where you are now a Lt doing more tutorial stuff like leading an away team or maybe briefly taking the helm of the ship during a night shift and you encounter some trouble and after it is mostly taken care of the Captain and First Officer are up and awake and have made their way to the bridge. Fade out and back in and the screen shows that the stardate is a few more years later. You are now a LCdr and the first officer of a Miranda or BoP. This is where the current STO story can come in. Your captain is killed in a KDF raid, or your treacherous KDF Captain is killed when you challenge him to a fight. In both cases you are then given command of the ship. But this would require them to change he minimum rank to LCdr to make sense. It can still go to Cdr-Capt-Adm-FAdm or whatever like they have it now. But they arent going to budge on the captain rank so i doubt they would budge on changing the minimum rank either. I also doubt they would change the tutorial storyline to what i mentioned or what anyone else mentions so yah...