In an ideal Star Trek game, you would start out as a Commander (and first officer) in the tutorial. Then in the tutorial, your captain dies and you get a field promotion to Captain/acting Captain. You are then a Captain for the rest of the game as you level.
That's really good actually. How old was Riker during Farpoint? 30? I'm totally stealing your ideal and head-cannoning it to my main to explain a cadet jumping to Captain for all those adventures.
(By which I mean Kah'lor was either a LTC or CDR and got fielded pumped to Captain during a rescue mission of the Break Even.)
IMO they dug themselves into a whole with the rank system. I personally think the top rank should be Captain/Romulan Commander.
I think, atleast for the fed side, the ranks would have made alot more sense if they went along the lines of this, and with appropriate content for those grades
Instead, they have essentially stuck themselves with Fleet Admirals Online.
That and 18 months to Captain would sound alot better.
Since being called "Captain" of the vessel you command and ranked are two different things (your crew starts calling you character Captain even during the tutorial), but I must say, I like your ranking a bit better, but no cadet should be given a ship. I think Ensign to begin with and maybe simple keep the rank Lt. or Lt Cmdr for two numeric game rankings.
so when a NPC calls you Admiral ? when you set your character to a Commander? thats not breaking you immersion or do you hit F rapidly thru every dialog box? "i want to space a tribble every time someone complains about hearing immersion in a MMORPG".
MMORPG is all about immersion hence ROLE PLAYING GAME . your playing a ROLE in a game . a character . its like a actor constantly coming out of character on stage, it brakes immersion of the performance . same thing here especially in a story mission .
No, its not breaking my immersion. I use the power of ~imagination~ to believe they're actually calling him/her Commander or Captain or such. Yes, I'm playing a role and a concept, and possibly one that doesn't necessarily fit the James T. Kirk Superbabies that the tutorial sets up for the Federation. Heck, half my Feds cavort around in TOS velour while merrily using 25th century hardware. Again, its the power of ~imagination~ and being able to turn on and off what the game offers me.
No, its not breaking my immersion. I use the power of ~imagination~ to believe they're actually calling him/her Commander or Captain or such. Yes, I'm playing a role and a concept, and possibly one that doesn't necessarily fit the James T. Kirk Superbabies that the tutorial sets up for the Federation. Heck, half my Feds cavort around in TOS velour while merrily using 25th century hardware. Again, its the power of ~imagination~ and being able to turn on and off what the game offers me.
+1
Don't let the game hold your hand, telling you what's what and how things should be. Take the initiative and forge your own story.
On the subject of beaming through shields, we have see races with the technology to do just that. Voyager was even seen at times being able to do that. It isn't unreasonable to assume by this point in time in the game the technology has been improved to the point where it is quiet normal.
On the subject of ranking, yeah it is a little fast. But in the story your 1 character. A character who goes through and proves without a doubt he can handle things and handle them well. Added in it is a time of war, it isn't all together shocking such a fine officer would be promoted fast. Not to mention in each storyline you tend to have friends in high places which also helps. People want to say everyone is like Kirk's. I say wrong. Kirk was a great Captain but the reason it took him so long to rise up through the ranks was because he had a habit of violating rules and regulations. Also if I recall he was resistant to accept the promotion to Admiral. Also you got to consider that once he was in command, his crew had a high rate of fatalities. More so then any of the other top well known Captains. It is a wonder they didn't pull him off the Enterprise and strip him of his duties and rank. The only thing I think that saved his neck from that was the amount of good he accomplished.
IIRC he didn't open fire on the cube immediately, ergo he wasn't a threat yet (by the Borgs' bass-ackwards sense of tactics, not by what a competent commander would do). He could afford to drop shields on one facing long enough to pull 35 people off the Defiant (only takes a few seconds).
I'll accept that personally for the most part, but he (Picard) did open fire on the Cube almost immediately. Or atleast prior to the order to transport the Defiant survivors onboard. Big E dropped a couple torps onto the thing to temp. disable the tractor beam/weapon which the cube was starting to slam Defiant with before sweeping across it's field of fire on the Defiant. Even took some return fire if I remember right too.
Well, in the JJ trek reboot Kirk goes from suspended Cadet to Captain of the Enterprise in like 1 day. Even the original Kirk became Captain unusually quickly ahead of older officers. The idea here is that desperate times call for desperate measures. War with the Klingons, Borg in the Beta Quadrant, followed by eventual wars with the Undine and Iconian means lots of good people are going to die and the ones who not only survive but also save the galaxy are going to get promoted.
Sorry I couldn't pass this one up! As people have stated already, Quinn tell's you that Starfleet is losing officers so fast that they have more ships then captains for them. In the WW's they would take people with college educations and make them into high ranking officers such as majors or colonels. People like school teachers were drafted and made into officers without going through officer training school.
Also in the WW's they needed soldiers so badly that they would give draftees about 2 weeks to train and learn to shoot a gun. Then they would be sent across the atlantic or pacific to the front lines to serve as cannon fodder. A unit could go through several officers and senior enlisted in a matter of days. Field promotions were common, as Quinn said, rank doesn't really matter. You're promoted to LT so you have the proper authority to command your ship and its crew.
Once you've done enough fighting and gained enough command experience, they will put you in charge of a line, wing, task force, and finally a fleet. Apparently you are a quick study and a clever tactician that is so good at what he/she does that you are eventually made a fleet admiral because admirals get killed all the time.
Speaking of admirals dying... Why Starfleet would have an admiral engage a borg cube on an under-powered and under-armored ship such as an excelsior, with the rest of the armada is beyond me. You don't put your King next to your pawns in chess. You put him in the far back where he can coordinate the battle from safety, and retreat if necessary. Star Trek unfortunately has a history of doing things wrong even though starfleet is considered a partial military force. Jeri Taylor and the other writers are creative and excellent story tellers, but common, do your homework! This isn't the dark ages where a King leads his army into battle. This drove me insane when the borg tried to attack earth both times. Each time, the task force commander's (admiral's), ship was destroyed and Picard or Riker took command of the fleet, or what was left of it.
When Admirals command a task force from a carrier, they are surrounded by several ships at least, that serve many different functions. Long range detection, anti-ship, anti-submarine, and anti-aircraft capabilities. Advanced weapon systems that can shoot down close range missiles or aircraft. Military GPS and Spy satellites to give tactical information, and enough jet propelled firepower to wipe out a small country in a matter of hours. Trying to breach the defensive screens of a US Navy Task Force would be the equivalent of trying to disable an Abrams main battle tank with a .45 caliber handgun.
And the fact that Picard wanted to study the delta quadrant instead of setting a course home, against his senior staff's advice, is not what a real naval commander would do. Sending the Captain down to try to reason with a cybernetically augmented potentially dangerous drone is not an accurate response to an intruder. A captain would never go down to reason with pirates that are trying to hijack his/her ship unless his presence were absolutely required, such as a hostage negotiation. And separating the saucer section and having it, along with the stardrive both attack a borg cube is illogical.
Any captain that puts civilian passengers into that kind of danger when they could retreat to safety would be tried and court martialed. Plus, no competent acting captain would ever jeapordise the lives of his crew to rescue one man without reinforcements and sufficient fire power, even if it was a distinguished officer such as Picard. And the boarding party would consist of a highly trained special ops group, not a starfleet security officer and an android, although data's strength and immunity to assimilation makes sense. We send in the Rangers, SEALS, Delta Force, etc. to rescue hostages. They should have sent MACO's on a shuttle from the stardrive to attempt a rescue. Of course they didn't have MACO's so they shouldn't have attempted a rescue in the first place. The only time a captain would sacrifice his crew and his ship would be to stop an enemy from killing others. Example: Using their ship to ram an enemy ship, flank speed, in order to stop a missile launch against allied targets or innocent ones. Riker was about to warp into the cube to destroy it. This made sense because earth could have been assimilated if he didn't.
But the fact that the TV and Movies have the casts do illogical and extremely dangerous stuff without a second thought makes it very reasonable and possible for a cadet to be promoted to an admiral in a two or three part episode. They upgraded Quinn's dialogue to try to answer and explain away the most unusual and impossible reasons for being promoted so fast. Cryptic knew we would challenge them on this subject. We have in the past. They wanted to cover their behind's this time around. Afterall, Delta Recruits is the second best expansion ever, and the players love it! Right?
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They shouldnt have even mentioned it! In a cutscene no less, i was game to incorporate ecents of the main stryline to my rp headcanon but now its just impossible.
I can shut my mind off and go along with the flow regarding most other aspects of this game (and I'm really having fun with my new delta recruit) - but the whole notion of going from cadet to fleet admiral in 18 months is just unfathomable to me. Meanwhile, could someone remind me again how long Captain Picard was a captain? Hey, if I can make fleet admiral in 18 mos and they can make a bipolar madwoman who executed someone because she missed her friends (ahem) an admiral, no names necessary there, surely Jean Luc should be Emperor of the Federation within a few weeks.
Realistically, this game should be paced over a number of years as opposed to - well, 18 months. I don't see why it wasn't paced more accordingly to somewhat more realistic time frame.
Then again, it's no less realistic than going from cadet to captain of a starship within a matter of days - absolutely no one could ever buy that type of nonsense! :rolleyes:
Personally I ignore the time length. In my own little world, the game starts in 2409 and each character has their own progression through the story/timeline. Some are in 2414 while the highest is in 2418. Not all of my characters started as cadets, in fact my main started as a Lt. Cmd in 2409 when he took command of his ship during the borg invasion of Vega. For him, it's currently 2416 and he's not progressed past Captain.
The devs have their story they want you to follow, doesn't mean you have to. In fact, one my main Romulan, sadly when he was aiding Adm Tuvok with stopping the Dyson sphere from jumping, his ship was destroyed. Commanding the ship at the time was an old friend of his, Toven Khev, who died along with 948 other Romulans.
Well, in the JJ trek reboot Kirk goes from suspended Cadet to Captain of the Enterprise in like 1 day. Even the original Kirk became Captain unusually quickly ahead of older officers. The idea here is that desperate times call for desperate measures. War with the Klingons, Borg in the Beta Quadrant, followed by eventual wars with the Undine and Iconian means lots of good people are going to die and the ones who not only survive but also save the galaxy are going to get promoted.
Unless Starfleet is being lead by the most incompetent leadership around or CIC Starfleet is pulling a Napoleon and shooting everyone at the rank of Captain and up himself then pulling admiral ranks out of his pocket for every junior LT and Ensign, then it's asinine that a cadet goes from cadet to the very pinnacle of ranks in 18 months.
No navy real or fictional that has a long history like Starfleet would ever do that. Now for the romulans who are just starting out, little more realistic since you start in very small flotilla and there really is no senior leadership.
I mean I can get the whole "come out of the academy get promoted to LT and given the command of a small frigate and a small crew." I mean Senior Grade LT's command small ships like SEAL fast attack ships and SWIC boaTS and LT CMDRs command DDs and fast attack subs today.
But the very highest rank in 1.5 years, freaking silly.
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Consider: You graduate in 2409. Nobody graduates at the start of the year. Then in 2410 the Undine attacks ESD and Qo'nos.
Starfleet Academy does. The invasion of Virinat occurs in January 2409 - Two weeks prior to the Borg invasion of Vega. Says so right there in the Romulan introduction.
Im open to simulating it through doffing, but not doing fleet stfs with more than one main ship, no thx, its not an RtS
For single player content I should say. STFs are fine as they are (though watching that team do ISA with only pets was sort of impressive and sad at the same time). I'd just like a couple of Mirandas to follow me around and get blown up to make me look more awesome by comparison. After all the Defiant had a couple of "redshirt" Mirandas in a few of the big battle scenes.
Cheers from Antonio Valerio Cortez III, Half-Celestial Archduke of the Free Marches Confederacy.
I can shut my mind off and go along with the flow regarding most other aspects of this game (and I'm really having fun with my new delta recruit) - but the whole notion of going from cadet to fleet admiral in 18 months is just unfathomable to me. Meanwhile, could someone remind me again how long Captain Picard was a captain? Hey, if I can make fleet admiral in 18 mos and they can make a bipolar madwoman who executed someone because she missed her friends (ahem) an admiral, no names necessary there, surely Jean Luc should be Emperor of the Federation within a few weeks.
Realistically, this game should be paced over a number of years as opposed to - well, 18 months. I don't see why it wasn't paced more accordingly to somewhat more realistic time frame.
Then again, it's no less realistic than going from cadet to captain of a starship within a matter of days - absolutely no one could ever buy that type of nonsense! :rolleyes:
Don't be ridiculous, unless there is a mission in later content that has your character redoing the first scene from the future point of view and it happens as soon as he is promoted to Admiral, then it's going to take you even less than 18 months.
Sorry I couldn't pass this one up! As people have stated already, Quinn tell's you that Starfleet is losing officers so fast that they have more ships then captains for them. In the WW's they would take people with college educations and make them into high ranking officers such as majors or colonels. People like school teachers were drafted and made into officers without going through officer training school.
Also in the WW's they needed soldiers so badly that they would give draftees about 2 weeks to train and learn to shoot a gun. Then they would be sent across the atlantic or pacific to the front lines to serve as cannon fodder. A unit could go through several officers and senior enlisted in a matter of days. Field promotions were common, as Quinn said, rank doesn't really matter. You're promoted to LT so you have the proper authority to command your ship and its crew.
Once you've done enough fighting and gained enough command experience, they will put you in charge of a line, wing, task force, and finally a fleet. Apparently you are a quick study and a clever tactician that is so good at what he/she does that you are eventually made a fleet admiral because admirals get killed all the time.
Speaking of admirals dying... Why Starfleet would have an admiral engage a borg cube on an under-powered and under-armored ship such as an excelsior, with the rest of the armada is beyond me. You don't put your King next to your pawns in chess. You put him in the far back where he can coordinate the battle from safety, and retreat if necessary. Star Trek unfortunately has a history of doing things wrong even though starfleet is considered a partial military force. Jeri Taylor and the other writers are creative and excellent story tellers, but common, do your homework! This isn't the dark ages where a King leads his army into battle. This drove me insane when the borg tried to attack earth both times. Each time, the task force commander's (admiral's), ship was destroyed and Picard or Riker took command of the fleet, or what was left of it.
I don't Think Movie ever stated which ship th Admiral is on, besides the borg is already near Erath, it is as far back as it can get. Ever consider the idea that they intercepted the cube long Before it arrive but borg can just plow their way on to Earth.
But seriously, have you ever seen a Lt(actually a cadet on training) Went to fleet admiral in bit more than a year? That crazy even by videogame standard.
Hast thou not gone against sincerity
Hast thou not felt ashamed of thy words and deeds
Hast thou not lacked vigor
Hast thou exerted all possible efforts
Hast thou not become slothful
My main quited as a ground force/army special forces trooper and joined starfleet... That is why he is good at fighting on the ground and why he can rise through rank so fast(though all the way to an admiral is beyond me).
Shame MACO is part of starfleet ingame, otherwise a ex-MACO starfleet officer would be awesome.
Hast thou not gone against sincerity
Hast thou not felt ashamed of thy words and deeds
Hast thou not lacked vigor
Hast thou exerted all possible efforts
Hast thou not become slothful
Starfleet Academy does. The invasion of Virinat occurs in January 2409 - Two weeks prior to the Borg invasion of Vega. Says so right there in the Romulan introduction.
Actually we wouldn't of graduated beginning of that year. had things gone according to plan that training cruise would of lasted 3 to 6 months. We actually graduated early because of the Vega incident.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
I don't Think Movie ever stated which ship th Admiral is on, besides the borg is already near Erath, it is as far back as it can get. Ever consider the idea that they intercepted the cube long Before it arrive but borg can just plow their way on to Earth.
But seriously, have you ever seen a Lt(actually a cadet on training) Went to fleet admiral in bit more than a year? That crazy even by videogame standard.
Before I show proof of admirals dying in both Wolf 359 and Sector 001 I want to address the LT to FADM in a matter of months. Using the 21st century as an example. Back during WW I and WW II, The need for soldiers and officers became so great that they started taking anyone they could find. If you could hold a gun and survive a few weeks of training, you became a soldier. In WW I it eventually got so bad that people with college educations, such as a grade school math teacher was made a Major or Colonel and given command of a Platoon or Company.
In WW II time's got desperate for the United States after Pearl. A large sum of Army Air Corps soldiers as well as Army Infantry soldiers, didn't receive the required training they needed to preform their occupation effectively. They were fast tracked to the front lines. As for the training centers for these soldiers, they were at an all time low of competent officer and NCO's to train the recruits properly and efficiently. They were more concerned with meeting quota. Basic was usually 6 weeks before the war.
After the attack on Pearl, the need for more soldiers rose even higher. The same applied to the Marine Corps. In the pacific campaign soldiers and marines may have only had 3 to 4 weeks of basic training or less. They were loaded into amphibious assault vehicles and stormed the beaches of japanese occupied islands. A lot of service men were never properly trained or prepared to act under extreme stress or fear. That can also be said with trained service men as well. A lot of the young soldiers and marines were killed by enemy forces because they didn't have the training they needed to act without thinking. An example would be a frightened soldier that ran and exposed himself to enemy fire. Another would be improperly trained soldiers that would shoot at anything that moved, causing friendly fire casualties.
Sometimes they would give away their position by opening fire on an enemy because they saw an opportunity to kill them, when they should have remained concealed. Seeing their muzzleflash, the enemy could then throw grenades, fire machine guns, launch mortars, or use sharp shooters to pick off the soldiers as they ran. These are things you learn in basic if you aren't rushed through it. Keeping tab's on friendlies, trying your best to ID potential soldiers to see if they are friendly or enemy, trying to be fully aware of where you are pointing your rifle or sidearm, proper usage of cover and camouflage, when not to fire your weapon, and to try not to run off if you get scared (Deserters are guilty of treason and should be given the death sentence. Brave servicemen have lost their lives trying to find, track down, and recover a deserter).
That being said, there are several examples in the 21st century during wartime when resources, soldiers, and officers to lead them, become so scarce that they will take short cuts and give people without proper training officer positions. Now imaging this war we're in against the klingons and the borg. The entire klingon armada is trying to take over federation colonies. The Borg has returned in force to try to retake the alpha quadrant. The Tal Shiar plotting as usual. The Undine have also returned with a vengeance along with the Elachi, Voth, Vaaduar, and now the Iconians.
When Empress Sela's Scimitar was tractored into a vortex by an Iconian ship that just destroyed two borg cubes with two shots, we saw an enemy (far worse then the borg or undine), that we were eventually going to have to face. With the Klinks, Feds, and Roms in a coalition, we still had some trouble with the undine and the vaaduar. Just imagine how many allied fleets will be eradicated... A task force of 10 to 20 ships destroyed. That's 10 to 20 captain's and an admiral or 2 or 3, lost in a blink of an eye.
With loses like these, the coalition will be building more ship yards so they can build more ships, junior officers will be fast tracked to captains if they show the ability to keep their cool under pressure and a natural talent for unorthodox tactics to defeat our greatest enemy yet. This is the Alpha Quadrant's WW I and II. Put a LT in a captain's chair of a small vessel and if he/she shows promise, give a more advanced vessel for him/her to use. After a few ranks and ships, it's apparent to SFC that this once field commissioned officer is capable of leading a line or wing of other ships into battle.
When that officer has several major victories due to his/her innate ability to think on their feet and coordinate multiple starships, it is now apparent that this officer has the ability to command a task force of many ships, and eventually an entire fleet. All the while the coalition is losing dozens of ships a day it seems. With this officer having command experience as well as leadership and tactical experience, he/she has become an invaluable asset. They have gotten more combat experience then most captains do in their entire career under normal circumstances. Well, what rank do you have to be to give orders to captains in your task force? You guessed it, an Admiral. You continue to impress and your taskforces survive encounters where others have failed or claimed impossible.
If this officer can accomplish feats like this on a regular basis, then give this officer command of an entire fleet and watch him/her do their magic. What do you need to be to give orders to an entire fleet that has lower ranking admirals in it? Yup, a Fleet Admiral! Again with casualties being so high, the coalition is grabbing anyone that can captain a ship and have a slim but fighting chance to combat the enemy. With a fleet admiral as wise and experienced as you, you will be able to boost morale, teach others your tactics, learn to fight as one, and don't forget the fact that you're now a hero with a big flagship and every captain and admiral looks up to you and is honored to serve with you if they get the chance. Every cadet and junior officer wants to be on your ship. Because of this, you have your pick of the smartest and most creative personnel to handpick from.
That is how you go from impressing a Fleet Admiral by single handedly fighting off a few borg ships, being the one that discover the borg invasion, saved a group of civilian freighter from certain doom at the hands of the borg, you and only one other officer beaming down to a borg infested planet, risking your lives to help save colonist, single handedly destroying a giant borg drone protecting a device that is blocking all communication, fighting it out with a borg cube until reinforcements arrive, being a part of the task force that destroyed that cube, made it back to ESD and went to see Admiral Quinn who is in charge of coordinating all starfleet missions and assignments.
The admiral was right about one thing: You accomplished obstacles that should have broken you, you followed starfleet regulations and the mission to protect federation citizens, you proved yourself commanding a starship against the borg, and with your temporary leadership your crew did an outstanding job, for cadets. The Admiral desperately needs people with your initiative and bravery. Rank isn't part of the picture when it comes down to having experienced captains. Rank is only required for the chain of command and being given the rank of captain or admiral in no way automatically makes that officer an experienced person. You have to have the experience before you get your rank in this case.
The admiral isn't about to make you captain of a galaxy class right off the bat. But he want's to see how you preform in a ship that's destruction is a minimal loss to the current number of ships that are powerful enough to engage the Undine, Vaaduar, and Iconians. After being promoted for your excellence, you are trusted with more advanced ships and sent on riskier assignments. Your ship is bigger and has a larger crew complement and that means more room for officers. Instead of having a LT or Ltcdr. as your number one, you now have a cdr. as your first officer.
Since the war is still on and there is a shortage of captains that can successfully fight the enemy, the admiral decides it's time to give you an advanced starship and possible escort ships to form a wing and engage the enemy on the front lines. And since you are doing so well that other admirals and captains are talking about your accomplishments, the admiral decided to give you command of a task force. After success with that, he need's someone that can coordinate an entire fleet. And with your abilities, experience, and reputation you would be a top candidate for that position. The admiral now knows that if he want's something done, you will make it happen or die trying. You have now gained Admiral Quinns complete respect as an officer and as a reliable person he can set loose and know that you will clean up the mess on your own. Congradulations!!! You are now a Fleet Admiral with autonomy, able to pick and choose your battles and missions, all of which benefit the coalition, of course.
Battle of Wolf 359: 2367
At the battle of Wolf 359 Admiral J.P. Hanson with a fleet of 40 ships with more on the way, intercepted the cube at Wolf 359. Even the Klingon's had dispatched warship to Wolf 359 to help but they didn't make it in time. Asking for assistance from the Romulans was heavily being considered. In 2367, around the stardate of 44002.3, Locutus' cube entered Wolf 359 and ordered the ships to lower their shields, disarm their weapons, and escort his cube to earth.
The fleet engaged the borg and the Melbourne, the ship's chair that was offered to Riker earlier, was the first to go. After minutes of fighting the fleet was practically decimated. The admiral tried to rally the survivors to make a final assault on the cube but his and all of the remaining ships were destroyed. Memory Alpha clearly state's the fate of Admiral Hanson pertaining to the battle of Woulf 359.
Battle of Sector 001: 2373
Another borg cube was sent to earth in another attempt to assimilate earth. One unexpected variable in this battle was that the borg queen was on the cube. Vice Admiral Hayes contacted Picard on a priority one frequency to inform him that the borg were spotted in the alpha quadrant. As you know, the Admiral insisted that Picard and the federation's newest and most advanced ship plot a course for the Romulan Neutral Zone to make sure the Romulans didn't use the opportunity to attack.
Picard informed the bridge crew of the situation and almost all of them objected to the admiral's orders. "The Enterprise is the most advanced ship in starfleet" La Forge stated. Picard explained to them that it wasn't the crew in question, but that starfleet didn't want Picard to be faced by the borg again due to his previous encounter. They saw him as a liability.
As you also should remember, once the Enterprise arrived at the battle only a few ships were left. Troi informs the captain that "the admiral's ship has been destroyed." Picard took command of the remaining ships and ordered them to target a location on the cube that seemed to be a nonvital system. Data just had to let the captain know it appeared to be a nonvital system. Picard told Data to trust him. Riker tapped on the console on the arm of his chair and informed Picard that "the fleet is responding..." That's when he gave the order to all ships to fire on the cube.
A sovereign-class (Enterprise-E), an akira-class, a steamrunner-class, and a norway-class opened fire on the cube and destroyed it. These ships were assumed to be the only ships left with starfleet crews still alive on them. It was also stated that the Defiant was adrift but salvageable. Being a "tough little ship," it wasn't surprising it could take a cube's explosion Remember how "tough" it was during the Dominion Wars? Then as you know, Picard ordered Lt. Hawk a pursuit course after the queen's sphere as it vanished into a chroniton vortex. We know the rest from there.
Admiral's Getting Killed
There is one thing I don't understand. Admiral's have years of command experience and are very hard to replace. Why does Star Trek always have the task force commander engage the borg with their own flagship? They should fall back to observe the battle and control the fleet from there. Two admiral's could have been saved on two occasions if they had retreated once the fleets were almost destroyed.
I know it seems like a cowardly thing to do, but if those admirals had survived, they could have provided invaluable information and insight on how to fight the borg in future invasions. Instead, the only bridge officers worth mentioning, that fought and survived the borg to give future insight were Picard, Shelby, Riker, Worf, Janeway and Seven of Nine, Kim, Tuvok, Paris, Torres, Chakotay, Troi, La Forge, Data, Crusher, and the other crews that survived the Battle of Sector 001.
Each of the above were seen on the bridge during an encounter with the borg and saw first hand what a cube looks like when its attacking other ships, meaning they didn't find out by word of mouth like regular crewmen did. IRL, our Generals and Admirals are protected by several types of defense and countermeasures. A general would never go to the front lines along side infantry and shoot at the enemy. An Admiral doesn't board the Arleigh Burke destroyer he just sent to engage in a high risk assignment.
The general stays at the Main HQ or in a well protected FOB or Camp. The Admiral sit's behind a desk or is on a carrier surrounded by ships that can defeat air, land, and sea threats from a distance. I believe the reason they kill the admiral's off is so the captain of the hero ship can take his place and succeed where the admiral could not, by taking even more riskier actions then the admiral did.
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Battle of Wolf 359: 2367
At the battle of Wolf 359 Admiral J.P. Hanson with a fleet of 40 ships with more on the way, intercepted the cube at Wolf 359. Even the Klingon's had dispatched warship to Wolf 359 to help but they didn't make it in time. Asking for assistance from the Romulans was heavily being considered. In 2367, around the stardate of 44002.3, Locutus' cube entered Wolf 359 and ordered the ships to lower their shields, disarm their weapons, and escort his cube to earth.
The fleet engaged the borg and the Melbourne, the ship's chair that was offered to Riker earlier, was the first to go. After minutes of fighting the fleet was practically decimated. The admiral tried to rally the survivors to make a final assault on the cube but his and all of the remaining ships were destroyed. Memory Alpha clearly state's the fate of Admiral Hanson pertaining to the battle of Woulf 359.
Battle of Sector 001: 2373
Another borg cube was sent to earth in another attempt to assimilate earth. One unexpected variable in this battle was that the borg queen was on the cube. Vice Admiral Hayes contacted Picard on a priority one frequency to inform him that the borg were spotted in the alpha quadrant. As you know, the Admiral insisted that Picard and the federation's newest and most advanced ship plot a course for the Romulan Neutral Zone to make sure the Romulans didn't use the opportunity to attack.
Picard informed the bridge crew of the situation and almost all of them objected to the admiral's orders. "The Enterprise is the most advanced ship in starfleet" La Forge stated. Picard explained to them that it wasn't the crew in question, but that starfleet didn't want Picard to be faced by the borg again due to his previous encounter. They saw him as a liability.
As you also should remember, once the Enterprise arrived at the battle only a few ships were left. Troi informs the captain that "the admiral's ship has been destroyed." Picard took command of the remaining ships and ordered them to target a location on the cube that seemed to be a nonvital system. Data just had to let the captain know it appeared to be a nonvital system. Picard told Data to trust him. Riker tapped on the console on the arm of his chair and informed Picard that "the fleet is responding..." That's when he gave the order to all ships to fire on the cube.
A sovereign-class (Enterprise-E), an akira-class, a steamrunner-class, and a norway-class opened fire on the cube and destroyed it. These ships were assumed to be the only ships left with starfleet crews still alive on them. It was also stated that the Defiant was adrift but salvageable. Being a "tough little ship," it wasn't surprising it could take a cube's explosion Remember how "tough" it was during the Dominion Wars? Then as you know, Picard ordered Lt. Hawk a pursuit course after the queen's sphere as it vanished into a chroniton vortex. We know the rest from there.
Admiral's Getting Killed
There is one thing I don't understand. Admiral's have years of command experience and are very hard to replace. Why does Star Trek always have the task force commander engage the borg with their own flagship? They should fall back to observe the battle and control the fleet from there. Two admiral's could have been saved on two occasions if they had retreated once the fleets were almost destroyed.
I know it seems like a cowardly thing to do, but if those admirals had survived, they could have provided invaluable information and insight on how to fight the borg in future invasions. Instead, the only bridge officers worth mentioning, that fought and survived the borg to give future insight were Picard, Shelby, Riker, Worf, Janeway and Seven of Nine, Kim, Tuvok, Paris, Torres, Chakotay, Troi, La Forge, Data, Crusher, and the other crews that survived the Battle of Sector 001.
Each of the above were seen on the bridge during an encounter with the borg and saw first hand what a cube looks like when its attacking other ships, meaning they didn't find out by word of mouth like regular crewmen did. IRL, our Generals and Admirals are protected by several types of defense and countermeasures. A general would never go to the front lines along side infantry and shoot at the enemy. An Admiral doesn't board the Arleigh Burke destroyer he just sent to engage in a high risk assignment.
The general stays at the Main HQ or in a well protected FOB or Camp. The Admiral sit's behind a desk or is on a carrier surrounded by ships that can defeat air, land, and sea threats from a distance. I believe the reason they kill the admiral's off is so the captain of the hero ship can take his place and succeed where the admiral could not, by taking even more riskier actions then the admiral did.
I am not sure if you've been in the Navy or not but Admirals aren't all sitting behind a desk flirting with their secretary.
I was in the US Navy and was stationed on an aircraft carrier...probably as close to a starship as well get...every time we deployed we had a one or two star admiral onboard. During Iraqi Freedom our two star transferred his flag to a destroyer...he wanted to be the person to launch the first missiles.
In the Navy we call this Leading from the front.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
The general stays at the Main HQ or in a well protected FOB or Camp. The Admiral sit's behind a desk or is on a carrier surrounded by ships that can defeat air, land, and sea threats from a distance. I believe the reason they kill the admiral's off is so the captain of the hero ship can take his place and succeed where the admiral could not, by taking even more riskier actions then the admiral did.
Our real world doesn't have the equivalent of Borg Cubes. We would have to imagine a single ship that is capable of destroying a carrier even while he's defended by a huge support group.
The Admiral sat on his personal flagship, which is usually a very safe place.
He is not sitting on a desk in a remote Starbase because he has valuable command experience that is needed in a battle, to direct the defense forces trying to stop the Borg, not to read after action reports (especally since the Wolf 359 after action reports would have looked suspiciously like a Borg Cube, instead of the normally more practical handheld PADD).
After Wolf 359, there was no fleet left that our heroes could take the charge off.
After Sector 001 there was a fleet left, and Picard did take charge.
In neither scenario did they really do anything riskier than the Admirals did - they just did something different that happened to work.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Sorry I couldn't pass this one up! As people have stated already, Quinn tell's you that Starfleet is losing officers so fast that they have more ships then captains for them. In the WW's they would take people with college educations and make them into high ranking officers such as majors or colonels. People like school teachers were drafted and made into officers without going through officer training school.
yadda yadda
At the time, the United States didn't maintain its military at the same levels per capita that we do nowadays. The standing army was pretty small and they had to bulk it up fast. The big defense budgets we know and love today are a product of the Cold War.
The proper comparison is the early TNG Starfleet with the post-Wolf 359, Dominion War-era Starfleet, which was one hell of a lot bigger. I'm sorry, if Starfleet's that hard-up for personnel it should be visibly on the verge of total collapse. Their losses aren't that heavy.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
At the time, the United States didn't maintain its military at the same levels per capita that we do nowadays. The standing army was pretty small and they had to bulk it up fast. The big defense budgets we know and love today are a product of the Cold War.
The proper comparison is the early TNG Starfleet with the post-Wolf 359, Dominion War-era Starfleet, which was one hell of a lot bigger. I'm sorry, if Starfleet's that hard-up for personnel it should be visibly on the verge of total collapse. Their losses aren't that heavy.
But where would we see that?
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Well, let's see. Calling up the corps of cadets on purpose (not being forced into field-commissioning a shipload of them in a temporary emergency, underline), KDF launching full-scale invasions of Federation home territory (as opposed to duking it out on the border with the odd deep-strike), True Way overrunning the CDF because Starfleet had to pull their peacekeepers out, no support whatsoever for New Romulus coming under attack by the Elachi because Starfleet needs every ship elsewhere... need I go on?
What we're seeing instead is something more akin to the Star Kingdom of Manticore midway through the war with Haven when they graduated 10,000 cadets from the Academy on the normal schedule, and, key point, promoted them on the normal schedule. They ramped up quantity, they didn't fast-track a bunch of greenhorns.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Comments
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
That's really good actually. How old was Riker during Farpoint? 30? I'm totally stealing your ideal and head-cannoning it to my main to explain a cadet jumping to Captain for all those adventures.
(By which I mean Kah'lor was either a LTC or CDR and got fielded pumped to Captain during a rescue mission of the Break Even.)
Since being called "Captain" of the vessel you command and ranked are two different things (your crew starts calling you character Captain even during the tutorial), but I must say, I like your ranking a bit better, but no cadet should be given a ship. I think Ensign to begin with and maybe simple keep the rank Lt. or Lt Cmdr for two numeric game rankings.
Just my two ECs.
No, its not breaking my immersion. I use the power of ~imagination~ to believe they're actually calling him/her Commander or Captain or such. Yes, I'm playing a role and a concept, and possibly one that doesn't necessarily fit the James T. Kirk Superbabies that the tutorial sets up for the Federation. Heck, half my Feds cavort around in TOS velour while merrily using 25th century hardware. Again, its the power of ~imagination~ and being able to turn on and off what the game offers me.
+1
Don't let the game hold your hand, telling you what's what and how things should be. Take the initiative and forge your own story.
On the subject of ranking, yeah it is a little fast. But in the story your 1 character. A character who goes through and proves without a doubt he can handle things and handle them well. Added in it is a time of war, it isn't all together shocking such a fine officer would be promoted fast. Not to mention in each storyline you tend to have friends in high places which also helps. People want to say everyone is like Kirk's. I say wrong. Kirk was a great Captain but the reason it took him so long to rise up through the ranks was because he had a habit of violating rules and regulations. Also if I recall he was resistant to accept the promotion to Admiral. Also you got to consider that once he was in command, his crew had a high rate of fatalities. More so then any of the other top well known Captains. It is a wonder they didn't pull him off the Enterprise and strip him of his duties and rank. The only thing I think that saved his neck from that was the amount of good he accomplished.
I'll accept that personally for the most part, but he (Picard) did open fire on the Cube almost immediately. Or atleast prior to the order to transport the Defiant survivors onboard. Big E dropped a couple torps onto the thing to temp. disable the tractor beam/weapon which the cube was starting to slam Defiant with before sweeping across it's field of fire on the Defiant. Even took some return fire if I remember right too.
Also in the WW's they needed soldiers so badly that they would give draftees about 2 weeks to train and learn to shoot a gun. Then they would be sent across the atlantic or pacific to the front lines to serve as cannon fodder. A unit could go through several officers and senior enlisted in a matter of days. Field promotions were common, as Quinn said, rank doesn't really matter. You're promoted to LT so you have the proper authority to command your ship and its crew.
Once you've done enough fighting and gained enough command experience, they will put you in charge of a line, wing, task force, and finally a fleet. Apparently you are a quick study and a clever tactician that is so good at what he/she does that you are eventually made a fleet admiral because admirals get killed all the time.
Speaking of admirals dying... Why Starfleet would have an admiral engage a borg cube on an under-powered and under-armored ship such as an excelsior, with the rest of the armada is beyond me. You don't put your King next to your pawns in chess. You put him in the far back where he can coordinate the battle from safety, and retreat if necessary. Star Trek unfortunately has a history of doing things wrong even though starfleet is considered a partial military force. Jeri Taylor and the other writers are creative and excellent story tellers, but common, do your homework! This isn't the dark ages where a King leads his army into battle. This drove me insane when the borg tried to attack earth both times. Each time, the task force commander's (admiral's), ship was destroyed and Picard or Riker took command of the fleet, or what was left of it.
When Admirals command a task force from a carrier, they are surrounded by several ships at least, that serve many different functions. Long range detection, anti-ship, anti-submarine, and anti-aircraft capabilities. Advanced weapon systems that can shoot down close range missiles or aircraft. Military GPS and Spy satellites to give tactical information, and enough jet propelled firepower to wipe out a small country in a matter of hours. Trying to breach the defensive screens of a US Navy Task Force would be the equivalent of trying to disable an Abrams main battle tank with a .45 caliber handgun.
And the fact that Picard wanted to study the delta quadrant instead of setting a course home, against his senior staff's advice, is not what a real naval commander would do. Sending the Captain down to try to reason with a cybernetically augmented potentially dangerous drone is not an accurate response to an intruder. A captain would never go down to reason with pirates that are trying to hijack his/her ship unless his presence were absolutely required, such as a hostage negotiation. And separating the saucer section and having it, along with the stardrive both attack a borg cube is illogical.
Any captain that puts civilian passengers into that kind of danger when they could retreat to safety would be tried and court martialed. Plus, no competent acting captain would ever jeapordise the lives of his crew to rescue one man without reinforcements and sufficient fire power, even if it was a distinguished officer such as Picard. And the boarding party would consist of a highly trained special ops group, not a starfleet security officer and an android, although data's strength and immunity to assimilation makes sense. We send in the Rangers, SEALS, Delta Force, etc. to rescue hostages. They should have sent MACO's on a shuttle from the stardrive to attempt a rescue. Of course they didn't have MACO's so they shouldn't have attempted a rescue in the first place. The only time a captain would sacrifice his crew and his ship would be to stop an enemy from killing others. Example: Using their ship to ram an enemy ship, flank speed, in order to stop a missile launch against allied targets or innocent ones. Riker was about to warp into the cube to destroy it. This made sense because earth could have been assimilated if he didn't.
But the fact that the TV and Movies have the casts do illogical and extremely dangerous stuff without a second thought makes it very reasonable and possible for a cadet to be promoted to an admiral in a two or three part episode. They upgraded Quinn's dialogue to try to answer and explain away the most unusual and impossible reasons for being promoted so fast. Cryptic knew we would challenge them on this subject. We have in the past. They wanted to cover their behind's this time around. Afterall, Delta Recruits is the second best expansion ever, and the players love it! Right?
They shouldnt have even mentioned it! In a cutscene no less, i was game to incorporate ecents of the main stryline to my rp headcanon but now its just impossible.
Theyre just holodeck simulations to me now.
Off to the foundry...!
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haha no thanks
Im open to simulating it through doffing, but not doing fleet stfs with more than one main ship, no thx, its not an RtS
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Personally I ignore the time length. In my own little world, the game starts in 2409 and each character has their own progression through the story/timeline. Some are in 2414 while the highest is in 2418. Not all of my characters started as cadets, in fact my main started as a Lt. Cmd in 2409 when he took command of his ship during the borg invasion of Vega. For him, it's currently 2416 and he's not progressed past Captain.
The devs have their story they want you to follow, doesn't mean you have to. In fact, one my main Romulan, sadly when he was aiding Adm Tuvok with stopping the Dyson sphere from jumping, his ship was destroyed. Commanding the ship at the time was an old friend of his, Toven Khev, who died along with 948 other Romulans.
Play your story, not the devs.
Unless Starfleet is being lead by the most incompetent leadership around or CIC Starfleet is pulling a Napoleon and shooting everyone at the rank of Captain and up himself then pulling admiral ranks out of his pocket for every junior LT and Ensign, then it's asinine that a cadet goes from cadet to the very pinnacle of ranks in 18 months.
No navy real or fictional that has a long history like Starfleet would ever do that. Now for the romulans who are just starting out, little more realistic since you start in very small flotilla and there really is no senior leadership.
I mean I can get the whole "come out of the academy get promoted to LT and given the command of a small frigate and a small crew." I mean Senior Grade LT's command small ships like SEAL fast attack ships and SWIC boaTS and LT CMDRs command DDs and fast attack subs today.
But the very highest rank in 1.5 years, freaking silly.
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http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Captain Piett became Admiral in 30 seconds.
Starfleet Academy does. The invasion of Virinat occurs in January 2409 - Two weeks prior to the Borg invasion of Vega. Says so right there in the Romulan introduction.
For single player content I should say. STFs are fine as they are (though watching that team do ISA with only pets was sort of impressive and sad at the same time). I'd just like a couple of Mirandas to follow me around and get blown up to make me look more awesome by comparison. After all the Defiant had a couple of "redshirt" Mirandas in a few of the big battle scenes.
Don't be ridiculous, unless there is a mission in later content that has your character redoing the first scene from the future point of view and it happens as soon as he is promoted to Admiral, then it's going to take you even less than 18 months.
But seriously, have you ever seen a Lt(actually a cadet on training) Went to fleet admiral in bit more than a year? That crazy even by videogame standard.
Hast thou not felt ashamed of thy words and deeds
Hast thou not lacked vigor
Hast thou exerted all possible efforts
Hast thou not become slothful
Shame MACO is part of starfleet ingame, otherwise a ex-MACO starfleet officer would be awesome.
Hast thou not felt ashamed of thy words and deeds
Hast thou not lacked vigor
Hast thou exerted all possible efforts
Hast thou not become slothful
Actually we wouldn't of graduated beginning of that year. had things gone according to plan that training cruise would of lasted 3 to 6 months. We actually graduated early because of the Vega incident.
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http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Before I show proof of admirals dying in both Wolf 359 and Sector 001 I want to address the LT to FADM in a matter of months. Using the 21st century as an example. Back during WW I and WW II, The need for soldiers and officers became so great that they started taking anyone they could find. If you could hold a gun and survive a few weeks of training, you became a soldier. In WW I it eventually got so bad that people with college educations, such as a grade school math teacher was made a Major or Colonel and given command of a Platoon or Company.
In WW II time's got desperate for the United States after Pearl. A large sum of Army Air Corps soldiers as well as Army Infantry soldiers, didn't receive the required training they needed to preform their occupation effectively. They were fast tracked to the front lines. As for the training centers for these soldiers, they were at an all time low of competent officer and NCO's to train the recruits properly and efficiently. They were more concerned with meeting quota. Basic was usually 6 weeks before the war.
After the attack on Pearl, the need for more soldiers rose even higher. The same applied to the Marine Corps. In the pacific campaign soldiers and marines may have only had 3 to 4 weeks of basic training or less. They were loaded into amphibious assault vehicles and stormed the beaches of japanese occupied islands. A lot of service men were never properly trained or prepared to act under extreme stress or fear. That can also be said with trained service men as well. A lot of the young soldiers and marines were killed by enemy forces because they didn't have the training they needed to act without thinking. An example would be a frightened soldier that ran and exposed himself to enemy fire. Another would be improperly trained soldiers that would shoot at anything that moved, causing friendly fire casualties.
Sometimes they would give away their position by opening fire on an enemy because they saw an opportunity to kill them, when they should have remained concealed. Seeing their muzzleflash, the enemy could then throw grenades, fire machine guns, launch mortars, or use sharp shooters to pick off the soldiers as they ran. These are things you learn in basic if you aren't rushed through it. Keeping tab's on friendlies, trying your best to ID potential soldiers to see if they are friendly or enemy, trying to be fully aware of where you are pointing your rifle or sidearm, proper usage of cover and camouflage, when not to fire your weapon, and to try not to run off if you get scared (Deserters are guilty of treason and should be given the death sentence. Brave servicemen have lost their lives trying to find, track down, and recover a deserter).
That being said, there are several examples in the 21st century during wartime when resources, soldiers, and officers to lead them, become so scarce that they will take short cuts and give people without proper training officer positions. Now imaging this war we're in against the klingons and the borg. The entire klingon armada is trying to take over federation colonies. The Borg has returned in force to try to retake the alpha quadrant. The Tal Shiar plotting as usual. The Undine have also returned with a vengeance along with the Elachi, Voth, Vaaduar, and now the Iconians.
When Empress Sela's Scimitar was tractored into a vortex by an Iconian ship that just destroyed two borg cubes with two shots, we saw an enemy (far worse then the borg or undine), that we were eventually going to have to face. With the Klinks, Feds, and Roms in a coalition, we still had some trouble with the undine and the vaaduar. Just imagine how many allied fleets will be eradicated... A task force of 10 to 20 ships destroyed. That's 10 to 20 captain's and an admiral or 2 or 3, lost in a blink of an eye.
With loses like these, the coalition will be building more ship yards so they can build more ships, junior officers will be fast tracked to captains if they show the ability to keep their cool under pressure and a natural talent for unorthodox tactics to defeat our greatest enemy yet. This is the Alpha Quadrant's WW I and II. Put a LT in a captain's chair of a small vessel and if he/she shows promise, give a more advanced vessel for him/her to use. After a few ranks and ships, it's apparent to SFC that this once field commissioned officer is capable of leading a line or wing of other ships into battle.
When that officer has several major victories due to his/her innate ability to think on their feet and coordinate multiple starships, it is now apparent that this officer has the ability to command a task force of many ships, and eventually an entire fleet. All the while the coalition is losing dozens of ships a day it seems. With this officer having command experience as well as leadership and tactical experience, he/she has become an invaluable asset. They have gotten more combat experience then most captains do in their entire career under normal circumstances. Well, what rank do you have to be to give orders to captains in your task force? You guessed it, an Admiral. You continue to impress and your taskforces survive encounters where others have failed or claimed impossible.
If this officer can accomplish feats like this on a regular basis, then give this officer command of an entire fleet and watch him/her do their magic. What do you need to be to give orders to an entire fleet that has lower ranking admirals in it? Yup, a Fleet Admiral! Again with casualties being so high, the coalition is grabbing anyone that can captain a ship and have a slim but fighting chance to combat the enemy. With a fleet admiral as wise and experienced as you, you will be able to boost morale, teach others your tactics, learn to fight as one, and don't forget the fact that you're now a hero with a big flagship and every captain and admiral looks up to you and is honored to serve with you if they get the chance. Every cadet and junior officer wants to be on your ship. Because of this, you have your pick of the smartest and most creative personnel to handpick from.
That is how you go from impressing a Fleet Admiral by single handedly fighting off a few borg ships, being the one that discover the borg invasion, saved a group of civilian freighter from certain doom at the hands of the borg, you and only one other officer beaming down to a borg infested planet, risking your lives to help save colonist, single handedly destroying a giant borg drone protecting a device that is blocking all communication, fighting it out with a borg cube until reinforcements arrive, being a part of the task force that destroyed that cube, made it back to ESD and went to see Admiral Quinn who is in charge of coordinating all starfleet missions and assignments.
The admiral was right about one thing: You accomplished obstacles that should have broken you, you followed starfleet regulations and the mission to protect federation citizens, you proved yourself commanding a starship against the borg, and with your temporary leadership your crew did an outstanding job, for cadets. The Admiral desperately needs people with your initiative and bravery. Rank isn't part of the picture when it comes down to having experienced captains. Rank is only required for the chain of command and being given the rank of captain or admiral in no way automatically makes that officer an experienced person. You have to have the experience before you get your rank in this case.
The admiral isn't about to make you captain of a galaxy class right off the bat. But he want's to see how you preform in a ship that's destruction is a minimal loss to the current number of ships that are powerful enough to engage the Undine, Vaaduar, and Iconians. After being promoted for your excellence, you are trusted with more advanced ships and sent on riskier assignments. Your ship is bigger and has a larger crew complement and that means more room for officers. Instead of having a LT or Ltcdr. as your number one, you now have a cdr. as your first officer.
Since the war is still on and there is a shortage of captains that can successfully fight the enemy, the admiral decides it's time to give you an advanced starship and possible escort ships to form a wing and engage the enemy on the front lines. And since you are doing so well that other admirals and captains are talking about your accomplishments, the admiral decided to give you command of a task force. After success with that, he need's someone that can coordinate an entire fleet. And with your abilities, experience, and reputation you would be a top candidate for that position. The admiral now knows that if he want's something done, you will make it happen or die trying. You have now gained Admiral Quinns complete respect as an officer and as a reliable person he can set loose and know that you will clean up the mess on your own. Congradulations!!! You are now a Fleet Admiral with autonomy, able to pick and choose your battles and missions, all of which benefit the coalition, of course.
Battle of Wolf 359: 2367
At the battle of Wolf 359 Admiral J.P. Hanson with a fleet of 40 ships with more on the way, intercepted the cube at Wolf 359. Even the Klingon's had dispatched warship to Wolf 359 to help but they didn't make it in time. Asking for assistance from the Romulans was heavily being considered. In 2367, around the stardate of 44002.3, Locutus' cube entered Wolf 359 and ordered the ships to lower their shields, disarm their weapons, and escort his cube to earth.
The fleet engaged the borg and the Melbourne, the ship's chair that was offered to Riker earlier, was the first to go. After minutes of fighting the fleet was practically decimated. The admiral tried to rally the survivors to make a final assault on the cube but his and all of the remaining ships were destroyed. Memory Alpha clearly state's the fate of Admiral Hanson pertaining to the battle of Woulf 359.
Battle of Sector 001: 2373
Another borg cube was sent to earth in another attempt to assimilate earth. One unexpected variable in this battle was that the borg queen was on the cube. Vice Admiral Hayes contacted Picard on a priority one frequency to inform him that the borg were spotted in the alpha quadrant. As you know, the Admiral insisted that Picard and the federation's newest and most advanced ship plot a course for the Romulan Neutral Zone to make sure the Romulans didn't use the opportunity to attack.
Picard informed the bridge crew of the situation and almost all of them objected to the admiral's orders. "The Enterprise is the most advanced ship in starfleet" La Forge stated. Picard explained to them that it wasn't the crew in question, but that starfleet didn't want Picard to be faced by the borg again due to his previous encounter. They saw him as a liability.
As you also should remember, once the Enterprise arrived at the battle only a few ships were left. Troi informs the captain that "the admiral's ship has been destroyed." Picard took command of the remaining ships and ordered them to target a location on the cube that seemed to be a nonvital system. Data just had to let the captain know it appeared to be a nonvital system. Picard told Data to trust him. Riker tapped on the console on the arm of his chair and informed Picard that "the fleet is responding..." That's when he gave the order to all ships to fire on the cube.
A sovereign-class (Enterprise-E), an akira-class, a steamrunner-class, and a norway-class opened fire on the cube and destroyed it. These ships were assumed to be the only ships left with starfleet crews still alive on them. It was also stated that the Defiant was adrift but salvageable. Being a "tough little ship," it wasn't surprising it could take a cube's explosion Remember how "tough" it was during the Dominion Wars? Then as you know, Picard ordered Lt. Hawk a pursuit course after the queen's sphere as it vanished into a chroniton vortex. We know the rest from there.
Admiral's Getting Killed
There is one thing I don't understand. Admiral's have years of command experience and are very hard to replace. Why does Star Trek always have the task force commander engage the borg with their own flagship? They should fall back to observe the battle and control the fleet from there. Two admiral's could have been saved on two occasions if they had retreated once the fleets were almost destroyed.
I know it seems like a cowardly thing to do, but if those admirals had survived, they could have provided invaluable information and insight on how to fight the borg in future invasions. Instead, the only bridge officers worth mentioning, that fought and survived the borg to give future insight were Picard, Shelby, Riker, Worf, Janeway and Seven of Nine, Kim, Tuvok, Paris, Torres, Chakotay, Troi, La Forge, Data, Crusher, and the other crews that survived the Battle of Sector 001.
Each of the above were seen on the bridge during an encounter with the borg and saw first hand what a cube looks like when its attacking other ships, meaning they didn't find out by word of mouth like regular crewmen did. IRL, our Generals and Admirals are protected by several types of defense and countermeasures. A general would never go to the front lines along side infantry and shoot at the enemy. An Admiral doesn't board the Arleigh Burke destroyer he just sent to engage in a high risk assignment.
The general stays at the Main HQ or in a well protected FOB or Camp. The Admiral sit's behind a desk or is on a carrier surrounded by ships that can defeat air, land, and sea threats from a distance. I believe the reason they kill the admiral's off is so the captain of the hero ship can take his place and succeed where the admiral could not, by taking even more riskier actions then the admiral did.
I am not sure if you've been in the Navy or not but Admirals aren't all sitting behind a desk flirting with their secretary.
I was in the US Navy and was stationed on an aircraft carrier...probably as close to a starship as well get...every time we deployed we had a one or two star admiral onboard. During Iraqi Freedom our two star transferred his flag to a destroyer...he wanted to be the person to launch the first missiles.
In the Navy we call this Leading from the front.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
The Admiral sat on his personal flagship, which is usually a very safe place.
He is not sitting on a desk in a remote Starbase because he has valuable command experience that is needed in a battle, to direct the defense forces trying to stop the Borg, not to read after action reports (especally since the Wolf 359 after action reports would have looked suspiciously like a Borg Cube, instead of the normally more practical handheld PADD).
After Wolf 359, there was no fleet left that our heroes could take the charge off.
After Sector 001 there was a fleet left, and Picard did take charge.
In neither scenario did they really do anything riskier than the Admirals did - they just did something different that happened to work.
The proper comparison is the early TNG Starfleet with the post-Wolf 359, Dominion War-era Starfleet, which was one hell of a lot bigger. I'm sorry, if Starfleet's that hard-up for personnel it should be visibly on the verge of total collapse. Their losses aren't that heavy.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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But where would we see that?
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Well, let's see. Calling up the corps of cadets on purpose (not being forced into field-commissioning a shipload of them in a temporary emergency, underline), KDF launching full-scale invasions of Federation home territory (as opposed to duking it out on the border with the odd deep-strike), True Way overrunning the CDF because Starfleet had to pull their peacekeepers out, no support whatsoever for New Romulus coming under attack by the Elachi because Starfleet needs every ship elsewhere... need I go on?
What we're seeing instead is something more akin to the Star Kingdom of Manticore midway through the war with Haven when they graduated 10,000 cadets from the Academy on the normal schedule, and, key point, promoted them on the normal schedule. They ramped up quantity, they didn't fast-track a bunch of greenhorns.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Besides we're kinda like this generation's Kirk or Picard...