You make an assertion that isn't backed by the facts.. Shelby said/strong implied that after Wolf 359 the losses in Ship and Personnel was "that heavy". What Shelby said/implied is canon in the universe of Star Trek for the Federation at that time.
Of course it was heavy losses. Most ships Starfleet had lost in one go in probably 40 years.
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You make an assertion that isn't backed by the facts.. Shelby said/strong implied that after Wolf 359 the losses in Ship and Personnel was "that heavy". What Shelby said/implied is canon in the universe of Star Trek for the Federation at that time.
No, you misunderstood what I wrote (possibly I didn't use enough paragraph breaks). I'm saying their losses in the current conflicts aren't heavy enough to warrant Quinn's insane promotion policy because otherwise things should look a hell of a lot more desperate all over.
Reason I mentioned Wolf 359 is because the losses suffered there motivated the Federation to go whole-hog on ship construction and crew recruitment and training (for starters, finishing the other six first-run Galaxy hulls that they'd mothballed), ships and crew which were then used in the Dominion War and kept active afterwards. Much like how World War II triggered a huge build-up of the US military, which was then kept active over the Cold War instead of being reduced down as had happened previously.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
No, you misunderstood what I wrote (possibly I didn't use enough paragraph breaks). I'm saying their losses in the current conflicts aren't heavy enough to warrant Quinn's insane promotion policy because otherwise things should look a hell of a lot more desperate all over.
No, but it wouldn't be a very fun video game if 1. losses were actually severe enough (since having that little capacity would severely restrict other aspects of the FED and KDF, like available ships) or 2. a more reasonable career path was used (I don't want to be a Wesley...)
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I'm sorry that the Federation can't see greatness in front of them....but my KDF went to hell and back and battled the Klingon version of Satan and you're gonna tell me he should not be promoted to EMPEROR!!:mad:
You know, I only played federation until this delta recruit thing came up, I started a KDF and it is SOOO much more gratifying as far as what you do and who you kill.
Thats just IMO, take it or leave it.
I am dreading the Romulan play-though though, their ships looks tacky as hell, and I'm about as shallow as they come when dealing with aesthetics.
If you apply common sense and the "real world" to STO, you will be left quite wanting. When I saw the whole Warrior/Cadet to Dahar Master/Fleet Admiral in 18 months, I spit out the soda I was drinking due to the laughter.
The idea for that is so idiotically stupid. You telling me that Starfleet / Romulan Republic / KDF is going to make some person that just figured out how to point a weapon in the right direction command of a warship? While there's untold thousands of existing XOs/First Officers out there with TONS of actual combat experience? In between the Borg, Breen, Undine, True Way, RSE, etc that the KDF and Starfleet have been fighting, on top of the *very* recently ended Federation-Klingon War, fleet headquarters cannot find competent, up and coming officers to promote and place in charge of a ship?
And then to top it off, send that person skyrocketing up the rank structure.
In an ideal Star Trek game, you would start out as a Commander (and first officer) in the tutorial. Then in the tutorial, your captain dies and you get a field promotion to Captain/acting Captain. You are then a Captain for the rest of the game as you level.
Yup , but you could go as low as LT. or LT. Com and start from there , as a jump in 2 ranks in a period of 2 years in a time of war is more acceptable .
... classic 2 birds with one stone... , no more super promoting and no more thousands of fleet admirals (without fleets) ...
I was playing SWTOR just now leveling a new Trooper when something occured to me...something related to this topic. In SWTOR you have several organizations...Jedi and Sith who have titles. Then you have Imperial Intel who has designations--Watcher 2, Watcher 3, Fixer 6, Fixer 8, Cipher 9 etc. Smugglers and Bounty Hunters have no ranks structure. But then there is the Trooper which is a special forces/military type organization and therefore has actual ranks like Sergeant, Lieutenant, Captain, General and so on.
Anyways what i found funny about the Trooper is that once you are finished with all the storyline (at least what was available on game release) you are just a Major in the same special forces unit, and you still report to the same General. Jedi players have become "Masters" but you are equal to probably better than the NPC Jedi Council members. Sith have become Darth (like that Vader dude) and one even has a seat on the Dark Council. Bounty Hunter is the number one Bounty Hunter in the galaxy (let me roll my eyes at that one).
...but Troopers only get to the rank of Major. You go Sgt then you get a field promo to Lt cause all the officers in that unit defect and you take over. Then you go to Captain (Army rank equivalent not Navy), then you finish off the story as a Major. Not a Lt Col, not a Col, and not even a General...you are just a Major. And *that* is what i thought was pretty funny. Star Wars is pretty much Sc-Fi-Fantasy, while Star Trek is Sci-Fi-kinda-reality. SW has things like the force but ST has Tachyons, and...well a ton of other real or at least theoretical science stuff. I just thought it was kinda funny that the writers for the SW Trooper storyline kept it reasonable while the writers for ST did not (imo).
I just thought it was kinda funny that the writers for the SW Trooper storyline kept it reasonable while the writers for ST did not (imo).
In SW canon Han Solo was a General - meaning they throw those titles out like candy.
If anything it seems more like an error in design for that particular Class then anything else as, as you state, every other Class reaches the highest pinnacle.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Could they have done it another way? Sure. Could they have done a strictly cosmetic revamp of the leveling system that put level cap at Captain, including demoting all of these existing fleet admirals? Yes. Could they have left out the timeline reference all together, thus eliminating any sense of urgency or immediacy to the impending threat? Would not have been a problem. Could they have changed '18 months' into '5 years' and created dramatic gaps in the game's storyline? That was definitely an option.
But they didn't do any of those things, and instead they went with "18 months until the Iconian invasion makes it necessary for such drastic measures as time traveling fleet admirals, so don't waste any time preparing for the fight of your life." Your character nicely hangs a lampshade on how strange such rapid promotion is meaning you haven't said anything in this thread that the writers haven't already considered. Nothing more to be said here except to point out that no MMO is perfect, and choosing what imperfections to compromise on is probably the most important decision to make in development.
If you apply common sense and the "real world" to STO, you will be left quite wanting. When I saw the whole Warrior/Cadet to Dahar Master/Fleet Admiral in 18 months, I spit out the soda I was drinking due to the laughter.
The idea for that is so idiotically stupid. You telling me that Starfleet / Romulan Republic / KDF is going to make some person that just figured out how to point a weapon in the right direction command of a warship? While there's untold thousands of existing XOs/First Officers out there with TONS of actual combat experience? In between the Borg, Breen, Undine, True Way, RSE, etc that the KDF and Starfleet have been fighting, on top of the *very* recently ended Federation-Klingon War, fleet headquarters cannot find competent, up and coming officers to promote and place in charge of a ship?
And then to top it off, send that person skyrocketing up the rank structure.
It's so overwhelmingly stupid.
How awesome would it be if, at the end of the Delta Recruit thing, right after you go back in time to see your younger self, there's a quick dialogue between the guy sending you and someone else that effectively goes like this:
"Oh, he's not REALLY a Fleet Admiral. He's Starfleet's special snowflake, Q told Admiral Quinn that the more we mess with this guy, the more he'll keep tripping over the right answers to the Federation's biggest problems. Just wait, we're going to invent a Super Admiral rank for him next!"
In SW canon Han Solo was a General - meaning they throw those titles out like candy.
If anything it seems more like an error in design for that particular Class then anything else as, as you state, every other Class reaches the highest pinnacle.
It wasnt an error in design...IIRC there were different writers responsible for each class story. If you've never played SWTOR before you will notice the different quality in class storylines. And i've been told that this is why some stories felt like TRIBBLE while others were really good.
Some stories were just really predictable like Sith Warrior or Jedi Knight. Sith Warrior story is basically betrayal, you got betrayed, you are going to betray someone, ohh and btw have some betrayal with a side order of backstab. Jedi Knight storyline? just imagine the whole time you are doing it in the back of your head is Princess Leia saying "help me Obi Wan you are my only hope" over and over. Even the Jedi Council members are basically like "ok you need to save us from the Sith Emperor". Agent storyline is the only one out of all8 SWTOR storylines that took me by surprise with its ending. I think there were 2-3 ending options and the one i took i basically saved the Empire, but i had to leave Imperial Intelligence, and just keep on working for them and the Empire while outside the agency. Trooper storyline you prevent the Republic homeworld from getting destroyed and i think you either get promoted to Major, or maybe you were already a Major but you stay there.
Every class does reach its pinnacle but Agent and Trooper do so with just their actions...there's no ceremony or cheesy promotion TRIBBLE for them.
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Of course it was heavy losses. Most ships Starfleet had lost in one go in probably 40 years.
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No, you misunderstood what I wrote (possibly I didn't use enough paragraph breaks). I'm saying their losses in the current conflicts aren't heavy enough to warrant Quinn's insane promotion policy because otherwise things should look a hell of a lot more desperate all over.
Reason I mentioned Wolf 359 is because the losses suffered there motivated the Federation to go whole-hog on ship construction and crew recruitment and training (for starters, finishing the other six first-run Galaxy hulls that they'd mothballed), ships and crew which were then used in the Dominion War and kept active afterwards. Much like how World War II triggered a huge build-up of the US military, which was then kept active over the Cold War instead of being reduced down as had happened previously.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
No, but it wouldn't be a very fun video game if 1. losses were actually severe enough (since having that little capacity would severely restrict other aspects of the FED and KDF, like available ships) or 2. a more reasonable career path was used (I don't want to be a Wesley...)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
You know, I only played federation until this delta recruit thing came up, I started a KDF and it is SOOO much more gratifying as far as what you do and who you kill.
Thats just IMO, take it or leave it.
I am dreading the Romulan play-though though, their ships looks tacky as hell, and I'm about as shallow as they come when dealing with aesthetics.
The idea for that is so idiotically stupid. You telling me that Starfleet / Romulan Republic / KDF is going to make some person that just figured out how to point a weapon in the right direction command of a warship? While there's untold thousands of existing XOs/First Officers out there with TONS of actual combat experience? In between the Borg, Breen, Undine, True Way, RSE, etc that the KDF and Starfleet have been fighting, on top of the *very* recently ended Federation-Klingon War, fleet headquarters cannot find competent, up and coming officers to promote and place in charge of a ship?
And then to top it off, send that person skyrocketing up the rank structure.
It's so overwhelmingly stupid.
Yup , but you could go as low as LT. or LT. Com and start from there , as a jump in 2 ranks in a period of 2 years in a time of war is more acceptable .
... classic 2 birds with one stone... , no more super promoting and no more thousands of fleet admirals (without fleets) ...
Anyways what i found funny about the Trooper is that once you are finished with all the storyline (at least what was available on game release) you are just a Major in the same special forces unit, and you still report to the same General. Jedi players have become "Masters" but you are equal to probably better than the NPC Jedi Council members. Sith have become Darth (like that Vader dude) and one even has a seat on the Dark Council. Bounty Hunter is the number one Bounty Hunter in the galaxy (let me roll my eyes at that one).
...but Troopers only get to the rank of Major. You go Sgt then you get a field promo to Lt cause all the officers in that unit defect and you take over. Then you go to Captain (Army rank equivalent not Navy), then you finish off the story as a Major. Not a Lt Col, not a Col, and not even a General...you are just a Major. And *that* is what i thought was pretty funny. Star Wars is pretty much Sc-Fi-Fantasy, while Star Trek is Sci-Fi-kinda-reality. SW has things like the force but ST has Tachyons, and...well a ton of other real or at least theoretical science stuff. I just thought it was kinda funny that the writers for the SW Trooper storyline kept it reasonable while the writers for ST did not (imo).
If anything it seems more like an error in design for that particular Class then anything else as, as you state, every other Class reaches the highest pinnacle.
Could they have done it another way? Sure. Could they have done a strictly cosmetic revamp of the leveling system that put level cap at Captain, including demoting all of these existing fleet admirals? Yes. Could they have left out the timeline reference all together, thus eliminating any sense of urgency or immediacy to the impending threat? Would not have been a problem. Could they have changed '18 months' into '5 years' and created dramatic gaps in the game's storyline? That was definitely an option.
But they didn't do any of those things, and instead they went with "18 months until the Iconian invasion makes it necessary for such drastic measures as time traveling fleet admirals, so don't waste any time preparing for the fight of your life." Your character nicely hangs a lampshade on how strange such rapid promotion is meaning you haven't said anything in this thread that the writers haven't already considered. Nothing more to be said here except to point out that no MMO is perfect, and choosing what imperfections to compromise on is probably the most important decision to make in development.
How awesome would it be if, at the end of the Delta Recruit thing, right after you go back in time to see your younger self, there's a quick dialogue between the guy sending you and someone else that effectively goes like this:
"So... eighteen months. Crazy promotion scheme, eh?"
"Oh, he's not REALLY a Fleet Admiral. He's Starfleet's special snowflake, Q told Admiral Quinn that the more we mess with this guy, the more he'll keep tripping over the right answers to the Federation's biggest problems. Just wait, we're going to invent a Super Admiral rank for him next!"
It wasnt an error in design...IIRC there were different writers responsible for each class story. If you've never played SWTOR before you will notice the different quality in class storylines. And i've been told that this is why some stories felt like TRIBBLE while others were really good.
Some stories were just really predictable like Sith Warrior or Jedi Knight. Sith Warrior story is basically betrayal, you got betrayed, you are going to betray someone, ohh and btw have some betrayal with a side order of backstab. Jedi Knight storyline? just imagine the whole time you are doing it in the back of your head is Princess Leia saying "help me Obi Wan you are my only hope" over and over. Even the Jedi Council members are basically like "ok you need to save us from the Sith Emperor". Agent storyline is the only one out of all8 SWTOR storylines that took me by surprise with its ending. I think there were 2-3 ending options and the one i took i basically saved the Empire, but i had to leave Imperial Intelligence, and just keep on working for them and the Empire while outside the agency. Trooper storyline you prevent the Republic homeworld from getting destroyed and i think you either get promoted to Major, or maybe you were already a Major but you stay there.
Every class does reach its pinnacle but Agent and Trooper do so with just their actions...there's no ceremony or cheesy promotion TRIBBLE for them.