In order for that player to be recognize as a PvE tanker, it needs draw aggro in the current HSE, grab most damage for the group, finish the current HSE, get 0 Deaths and parse 30k+ DPS and post that log in HSE table.
Otherwise, PvP players spewing tanking superiority in PvE over PvE players is just full of hot air and no factual basis whatsoever.
I don't have one bad thing to say about any of you guys who know how to put out all that hurt on the real bad guys. Or the fake, real bad guys...oh boy. I think you know what I mean.
What I want to know is, how can You help Me put out that kind of damage? I've got my DHC's on my ROM doing almost 3000 points of damage without any buffs.
I have a feeling this could be brought up to a higher value. Much Higher.
Anyways, how can you high dps dudes and dude-ettes help me out now, in the short term?
I'm using advanced fleet disruptors with fleet tac consoles. one of my tac consoles is level fourteen. the rest are level thirteen. all of my guns are level thirteen as of right now, midnight 04.Apr.2015
I don't have one bad thing to say about any of you guys who know how to put out all that hurt on the real bad guys. Or the fake, real bad guys...oh boy. I think you know what I mean.
What I want to know is, how can You help Me put out that kind of damage? I've got my DHC's on my ROM doing almost 3000 points of damage without any buffs.
I have a feeling this could be brought up to a higher value. Much Higher.
Anyways, how can you high dps dudes and dude-ettes help me out now, in the short term?
I'm using advanced fleet disruptors with fleet tac consoles. one of my tac consoles is level fourteen. the rest are level thirteen. all of my guns are level thirteen as of right now, midnight 04.Apr.2015
I'd suggest making a new post to discuss your specific build. You're welcome to do so on the romulan shipyards subforum or on /r/stobuilds (link in signature), or ask for help in DPS-Public (or any channel you've qualified for; DPS-Public is an open channel).
SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci
You and other players who have created a number of threads about this subject, in my personal view, can have the PVE Qs. The last Priority one podcast they interviewed Captain Geko made it clear in his own way, if you are not upgrading your equipment to UR/EPIC you should not be playing any Advanced or Elite PVEs. It pretty much made it clear to me I am not invited to PVEs anymore.
You and other players who have created a number of threads about this subject, in my personal view, can have the PVE Qs. The last Priority one podcast they interviewed Captain Geko made it clear in his own way, if you are not upgrading your equipment to UR/EPIC you should not be playing any Advanced or Elite PVEs. It pretty much made it clear to me I am not invited to PVEs anymore.
Have fun with them!!
A timestamp for that podcast where he said that would be interesting...
...given that for Advanced you don't even need VR gear and they're doing away with the Mandatory Objectives so it will be even easier than it was....a timestamp to that would be interesting.
Cause Geko said this back on Oct 15th after DR launched...
Welcome to Delta Rising. A lot has changed in the game difficulty, and we are looking for your feedback.
Delta Rising was a massive addition, and we anticipate that we will need to make adjustments. So over the next few weeks expect changes in the baseline difficulty, advanced difficulty, and elite difficulty - and also expect rewards to change as we gather more metrics on play-times and success rates.
Our goal was to make basic difficulty and the story content something everyone can play - even with a standard T5 ship. Levels 1-50 are generally pretty easy at basic difficulty, so we felt 51-60 should step things up a bit. Although we expect 51-60 accessible everyone, those in T5 ships and non-upgraded gear should to start to feel a definite challenge as they approach level 60. We expect Advanced to be for more skilled players and those who have invested in the game (ships and gear). And we expect Elite to be for the best of the best. We don't expect most players to succeed on elite difficulty.
If I were to guess, I would expect basic to get some minor tuning, Advanced to get a little easier and Elite to get a lot harder - and rewards, like dilithium rewards, could potentially go up across queues once we are sure we are hitting the right mark. But this is just my guess at this time.
Until then, let us know your thoughts here, and we will take your feedback into consideration.
We did warn you that Elite is not for everyone. Its pretty extreme. Seriously, most players should not be able to do it.
But please note, that have already had some pretty well organized fleets blazing through Elite with apparent ease. It kinda blows me away honestly. We have a lot of diversity on skill in STO, so finding the right balance point may take time. We want to make a real challenge for our top players, so if players are succeeding easily (and they are), expect it to probably get harder.
Shortly after launch of Delta Rising, I made a post asking for your input on balance for levels 51-60 balance. I wanted to take a moment and thank everyone for their input. Raising the level cap with 3 difficulty settings is a big task. The difference in skill and gear from one player to another can be very large, so getting the balance right can be a challenge.
A little over a week or so ago, we made some changes to difficulty. Based on additional feedback, as well as continuing data mining, we are in the process of making another pass. We will be noticeably reducing the HP and shields of all space critters from levels 51-60. This change will have more of an effect at level 60 than 51. This change will affect Basic and Advanced difficulty, but not affect Elite Difficulty.
Be sure to watch for additional posts from the devs on related changes. In relation to game difficulty, keep an eye out for posts on PvE queue difficulty as well as a post on changes to changes to rewards. Please focus your responses on the appropriate thread.
LLAP
Al Captain Geko Rivera
...which took those omgherd DPS requirements for Advanced at the launch of DR to lolwut 1-2k more if that over what the Elites had been prior to DR.
And they've talked about removing the Mandatory Objectives from Advanced like I said...
...so er yeah, a timestamp to where he said that would be a trip.
A timestamp for that podcast where he said that would be interesting...
...given that for Advanced you don't even need VR gear and they're doing away with the Mandatory Objectives so it will be even easier than it was....a timestamp to that would be interesting.
I am sorry, I cannot provide a time stamp, I was listening to it tonight while I was driving home from a wedding. I want to say it was at the 45 to one hour mark.
His exact words were this:
Priority one's intern had mentioned he had been away from the game for about a year, and the mention of the upgrade system, he asked if all of his Mk 12 gear was useless now.
Geko clearly mentioned that as the game is F2P you can accomplish anything in the game with the same MK 12 gear, the advanced and Elite PVEs are setup as a sandbox of those who have invested the time to upgrade their gear to MK 13 and MK 14, but MK 12 gear can still be used, but the player will find it much more difficult to accomplish these PVEs.
As my earlier statement, I have yet to upgrade my equipment, and as Geko has confirmed that advanced and Elite are more those who have, I am not personally entitled to play those Qs.
Man, I respect you folks a little too much I think LOL.
"Hank, Snog, Hannibal...did you see SOB threw the gauntlet down on the forums at you guys? Yeah...the challenge is on, my brothers! So when's the last time any of you guys ran HSE? Wait, first, when was the last time any of you guys even logged into the game? No, no, not to dork around on Rebirth on Redshirt, but logged on to Holodeck?" :P
edit: On second thought, I couldn't say SOB did - cause they'd think it was somebody else. Couldn't say pax did cause they'd think it was somebody else. And if I said it was from one of the guys from the DPS League, I wouldn't even get as far as asking them about HSE before they /facepalm'd me.
I am sorry, I cannot provide a time stamp, I was listening to it tonight while I was driving home from a wedding. I want to say it was at the 45 to one hour mark.
Thanks, that's close enough, I can muddle around in half an our or so of one of those podcasts to find it...I just can't stand the 9001 hour things they do - they're downright brutal and usually put me to sleep before I hear what I was hoping to hear him talk about...meh.
You call that a challenge? Bro, you haven't seen a challenge until you've seen a team of Tuffli Freighters completing all PVE STFs on Elite. You ain't seen tough until you've seen Tuffli.
STO forum term definitions for newbies:Piloting Skill: That thing you do where you fly around and avoid big scary green plasma balls of death. Pressing F and spacebar may also relate to skill.Taco: A very sacred thing. Do not speak I'll of the Taco or things will happen. Terrible things! Humor: Something not found here. Don't bring it. This forum is serious business.Fun: Something illegal. Don't have it and don't bring it
Certainly where space is concerned, the idea that people can't play a role they enjoy playing at all levels and be an asset to the team (done right of course) is a failure in the design of the game. People might be more receptive if that was changed, and really it isn't an unreasonable request. One of the biggest issues is that everything is time-gated, and making queues that will continue until you finish them would open the floor for other play styles.
Now speaking as a ground fighter, there's no end of valid ground builds to work with on ground, and so long as you get the foundation right the rest is purely down to learning how to operate as part of a team. One thing people don't realise is that, when you're truly on top of your game a mixed team of all professions with whatever builds will curb stomp anything in their path, and due to how pathetically easy even the Elite ground queues are you don't even have to be anything like perfect to do well. It gets to a point though where you're bouncing off each other instinctively to get that perfect efficiency, and when that happens it feels awesome.
Fact is though most people in this game aren't interested in achieving that. I'd even go as far as to suggest that its a tiny minority of us that really get to the top of our game with any aspect of any game, because from my experience most people aren't worried if they aren't quite the best they could be, hell I doubt the thought even occurs to most of them.
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
You call that a challenge? Bro, you haven't seen a challenge until you've seen a team of Tuffli Freighters completing all PVE STFs on Elite. You ain't seen tough until you've seen Tuffli.
I'd say doing HSE with rebreathers and broken sporks wouldn't touch the challenge the OP laid out. It's like asking folks to give the kitties a little snack treat and walking them into a den of lions.
Serious question. Can we get some sort of quantitative values for the following:
Average DPS
Exceptional DPS
Amazing DPS
Using ISA as an area to measure this metric.
From there, one can then have a better idea of what people can do in these "oddball builds" for tanking and healing while still dealing out X DPS.
The only source I know of numbers is only for successful runs. So it starts off with being limited because of the small group sampled and then gets smaller from there because of not tracking the failed runs.
Which gets into how many failed runs are out there? Last I looked, my public queue pug runs were well under 10% for ISA. There are folks out there claiming 80% or more failure rates though. I've noticed a trend of folks doing better as the months have gone by...others are claiming it's getting worse and worse. /shrug
So one could look at the DPS League Table and say that only 5.6% of the folks there are at 30k or more, that the middle 25% of the table do somewhere between 6.7k and 11-something-k...but just how does that table actually reflect the playerbase, eh? How much smaller is that 5.6% than shown? What's the actual middle 25%?
When they did the WFP run with just pets, they did ~8-13k...and finished ISA with 3:25 left on the Optional counter. It shows that the DPS requirements compared to potential DPS are pretty damn low...but is that pretty damn low something that's still pretty damn high for the general playerbase?
Serious question. Can we get some sort of quantitative values for the following:
Average DPS
Exceptional DPS
Amazing DPS
Using ISA as an area to measure this metric.
From there, one can then have a better idea of what people can do in these "oddball builds" for tanking and healing while still dealing out X DPS.
I had a fleetmate who did 3k DPS in cure advanced and was able to completely hold 2 sides worth of BoP's and raptors that the remaining team was able to focus on one area with no trouble. The kang was totally safe. The player was not going for DPS and was effective.
I've pugged ISA, no real team coordination during the match, where it was successfully completed with a team average of 6.29k DPS. It was that low because myself and 1 other player staggered our grav wells to slow things and collect them when we combined fire on the same shield facings. One needs far less DPS when you do those 2 things. Was it effective? The STF was completed successfully, so yes.
I have completed Argala in a DHC equipped Mat'Ha raptor in 4 minutes but with X DPS. In a beam boat scimitar, I complete it in 5.5 minutes but with X plus X/2 DPS. The scimitar had much higher DPS but takes longer to complete the mission. The raptor, much less time AND less DPS.
Using DPS as the major metric for whether the build is effective, is not a perfect solution and should be used cautiously. Having separate categories might be an acceptable way to differentiate, but it does complicate matters as well.
edit: On second thought, I couldn't say SOB did - cause they'd think it was somebody else. Couldn't say pax did cause they'd think it was somebody else. And if I said it was from one of the guys from the DPS League, I wouldn't even get as far as asking them about HSE before they /facepalm'd me.
that hit the nail on the head, words with multiple meanings hax lol :P
Since I've never made a dedicated tank for this game, what is the best captain class to pair with a cruiser (which is what I assume the best tank ship class would be) ?
They make a wondrous mess of things. Brave amateurs, they do their part.
Since I've never made a dedicated tank for this game, what is the best captain class to pair with a cruiser (which is what I assume the best tank ship class would be) ?
I vote for virusdancer to answer (and perhaps 'question' the premise of) your question.
I had a fleetmate who did 3k DPS in cure advanced and was able to completely hold 2 sides worth of BoP's and raptors that the remaining team was able to focus on one area with no trouble. The kang was totally safe. The player was not going for DPS and was effective.
I've pugged ISA, no real team coordination during the match, where it was successfully completed with a team average of 6.29k DPS. It was that low because myself and 1 other player staggered our grav wells to slow things and collect them when we combined fire on the same shield facings. One needs far less DPS when you do those 2 things. Was it effective? The STF was completed successfully, so yes.
I have completed Argala in a DHC equipped Mat'Ha raptor in 4 minutes but with X DPS. In a beam boat scimitar, I complete it in 5.5 minutes but with X plus X/2 DPS. The scimitar had much higher DPS but takes longer to complete the mission. The raptor, much less time AND less DPS.
Using DPS as the major metric for whether the build is effective, is not a perfect solution and should be used cautiously. Having separate categories might be an acceptable way to differentiate, but it does complicate matters as well.
Dps gets things done faster but, how much dps is sufficient is as we see not really high but, we have player's who cannot even get that low #.
Instead they are behind by about a factor of 2-5X in some cases and, are than causing other's to have to either make up for their really low dps and/or bandaid/crutch the mission along with CC abilities.
Since I've never made a dedicated tank for this game, what is the best captain class to pair with a cruiser (which is what I assume the best tank ship class would be) ?
Engineer is probably the safe answer, but all classes can be a tank. Start a new thread if you have more questions so this thread doesn't go off on more of a tangent than it already has..
Since I've never made a dedicated tank for this game, what is the best captain class to pair with a cruiser (which is what I assume the best tank ship class would be) ?
Engineers in cruisers would be my general-purpose vote. Pick the right cruiser, and you can throw in a tac captain. Be an engi and how how to build/fly it, and you can do it in ships other than cruisers (Sarr Theln, Recluse, Scimitar all jump to mind). But as a general rule, it's ideally done as an engi in a cruiser.
SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci
Comments
Trying to fit a PvP on a Pve Scenario?
PvP /= PvE
In PvE, PvE Tank > PvP Tank.
This is a PvE thread.
In order for that player to be recognize as a PvE tanker, it needs draw aggro in the current HSE, grab most damage for the group, finish the current HSE, get 0 Deaths and parse 30k+ DPS and post that log in HSE table.
Otherwise, PvP players spewing tanking superiority in PvE over PvE players is just full of hot air and no factual basis whatsoever.
I don't have one bad thing to say about any of you guys who know how to put out all that hurt on the real bad guys. Or the fake, real bad guys...oh boy. I think you know what I mean.
What I want to know is, how can You help Me put out that kind of damage? I've got my DHC's on my ROM doing almost 3000 points of damage without any buffs.
I have a feeling this could be brought up to a higher value. Much Higher.
Anyways, how can you high dps dudes and dude-ettes help me out now, in the short term?
I'm using advanced fleet disruptors with fleet tac consoles. one of my tac consoles is level fourteen. the rest are level thirteen. all of my guns are level thirteen as of right now, midnight 04.Apr.2015
Heh, why you trolling IC like that? :P
I'd suggest making a new post to discuss your specific build. You're welcome to do so on the romulan shipyards subforum or on /r/stobuilds (link in signature), or ask for help in DPS-Public (or any channel you've qualified for; DPS-Public is an open channel).
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
Game's best wiki
Build questions? Look here!
You and other players who have created a number of threads about this subject, in my personal view, can have the PVE Qs. The last Priority one podcast they interviewed Captain Geko made it clear in his own way, if you are not upgrading your equipment to UR/EPIC you should not be playing any Advanced or Elite PVEs. It pretty much made it clear to me I am not invited to PVEs anymore.
Have fun with them!!
A timestamp for that podcast where he said that would be interesting...
...given that for Advanced you don't even need VR gear and they're doing away with the Mandatory Objectives so it will be even easier than it was....a timestamp to that would be interesting.
Cause Geko said this back on Oct 15th after DR launched...
...and posted this 13 minutes later...
...and of course the Nov 14th post...
...which took those omgherd DPS requirements for Advanced at the launch of DR to lolwut 1-2k more if that over what the Elites had been prior to DR.
And they've talked about removing the Mandatory Objectives from Advanced like I said...
...so er yeah, a timestamp to where he said that would be a trip.
I am sorry, I cannot provide a time stamp, I was listening to it tonight while I was driving home from a wedding. I want to say it was at the 45 to one hour mark.
His exact words were this:
Priority one's intern had mentioned he had been away from the game for about a year, and the mention of the upgrade system, he asked if all of his Mk 12 gear was useless now.
Geko clearly mentioned that as the game is F2P you can accomplish anything in the game with the same MK 12 gear, the advanced and Elite PVEs are setup as a sandbox of those who have invested the time to upgrade their gear to MK 13 and MK 14, but MK 12 gear can still be used, but the player will find it much more difficult to accomplish these PVEs.
As my earlier statement, I have yet to upgrade my equipment, and as Geko has confirmed that advanced and Elite are more those who have, I am not personally entitled to play those Qs.
"Hank, Snog, Hannibal...did you see SOB threw the gauntlet down on the forums at you guys? Yeah...the challenge is on, my brothers! So when's the last time any of you guys ran HSE? Wait, first, when was the last time any of you guys even logged into the game? No, no, not to dork around on Rebirth on Redshirt, but logged on to Holodeck?" :P
edit: On second thought, I couldn't say SOB did - cause they'd think it was somebody else. Couldn't say pax did cause they'd think it was somebody else. And if I said it was from one of the guys from the DPS League, I wouldn't even get as far as asking them about HSE before they /facepalm'd me.
Thanks, that's close enough, I can muddle around in half an our or so of one of those podcasts to find it...I just can't stand the 9001 hour things they do - they're downright brutal and usually put me to sleep before I hear what I was hoping to hear him talk about...meh.
They're all talking ED and HOTAS...I'm dorking around with a Delta Recruit toon and then I'm going back to TSW.
Now speaking as a ground fighter, there's no end of valid ground builds to work with on ground, and so long as you get the foundation right the rest is purely down to learning how to operate as part of a team. One thing people don't realise is that, when you're truly on top of your game a mixed team of all professions with whatever builds will curb stomp anything in their path, and due to how pathetically easy even the Elite ground queues are you don't even have to be anything like perfect to do well. It gets to a point though where you're bouncing off each other instinctively to get that perfect efficiency, and when that happens it feels awesome.
Fact is though most people in this game aren't interested in achieving that. I'd even go as far as to suggest that its a tiny minority of us that really get to the top of our game with any aspect of any game, because from my experience most people aren't worried if they aren't quite the best they could be, hell I doubt the thought even occurs to most of them.
I stopped reading around page 5, did anyone actually get around to posting their results?
Average DPS
Exceptional DPS
Amazing DPS
Using ISA as an area to measure this metric.
From there, one can then have a better idea of what people can do in these "oddball builds" for tanking and healing while still dealing out X DPS.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
I'd say doing HSE with rebreathers and broken sporks wouldn't touch the challenge the OP laid out. It's like asking folks to give the kitties a little snack treat and walking them into a den of lions.
The only source I know of numbers is only for successful runs. So it starts off with being limited because of the small group sampled and then gets smaller from there because of not tracking the failed runs.
Which gets into how many failed runs are out there? Last I looked, my public queue pug runs were well under 10% for ISA. There are folks out there claiming 80% or more failure rates though. I've noticed a trend of folks doing better as the months have gone by...others are claiming it's getting worse and worse. /shrug
So one could look at the DPS League Table and say that only 5.6% of the folks there are at 30k or more, that the middle 25% of the table do somewhere between 6.7k and 11-something-k...but just how does that table actually reflect the playerbase, eh? How much smaller is that 5.6% than shown? What's the actual middle 25%?
When they did the WFP run with just pets, they did ~8-13k...and finished ISA with 3:25 left on the Optional counter. It shows that the DPS requirements compared to potential DPS are pretty damn low...but is that pretty damn low something that's still pretty damn high for the general playerbase?
I had a fleetmate who did 3k DPS in cure advanced and was able to completely hold 2 sides worth of BoP's and raptors that the remaining team was able to focus on one area with no trouble. The kang was totally safe. The player was not going for DPS and was effective.
I've pugged ISA, no real team coordination during the match, where it was successfully completed with a team average of 6.29k DPS. It was that low because myself and 1 other player staggered our grav wells to slow things and collect them when we combined fire on the same shield facings. One needs far less DPS when you do those 2 things. Was it effective? The STF was completed successfully, so yes.
I have completed Argala in a DHC equipped Mat'Ha raptor in 4 minutes but with X DPS. In a beam boat scimitar, I complete it in 5.5 minutes but with X plus X/2 DPS. The scimitar had much higher DPS but takes longer to complete the mission. The raptor, much less time AND less DPS.
Using DPS as the major metric for whether the build is effective, is not a perfect solution and should be used cautiously. Having separate categories might be an acceptable way to differentiate, but it does complicate matters as well.
that hit the nail on the head, words with multiple meanings hax lol :P
They make a wondrous mess of things. Brave amateurs, they do their part.
I vote for virusdancer to answer (and perhaps 'question' the premise of) your question.
*grabs popcorn*
What did I do to you, man? What did I do to you??? :P
I think you, Hannibal, Snog, David, and Jake should hit up some HSE...do some Competitive PvE. It's the new PvP.
Dps gets things done faster but, how much dps is sufficient is as we see not really high but, we have player's who cannot even get that low #.
Instead they are behind by about a factor of 2-5X in some cases and, are than causing other's to have to either make up for their really low dps and/or bandaid/crutch the mission along with CC abilities.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Engineer is probably the safe answer, but all classes can be a tank. Start a new thread if you have more questions so this thread doesn't go off on more of a tangent than it already has..
Engineers in cruisers would be my general-purpose vote. Pick the right cruiser, and you can throw in a tac captain. Be an engi and how how to build/fly it, and you can do it in ships other than cruisers (Sarr Theln, Recluse, Scimitar all jump to mind). But as a general rule, it's ideally done as an engi in a cruiser.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
Game's best wiki
Build questions? Look here!