ISA, for example, has buffed NPCs compared to old ISE, so your Vesta is not as usable now as it was comparatively.
T5.
I have, thus far at least, had no issues doing anything that I was doing before in it. Of course that's not to say that I won't encounter issues in future, in fact it's probably likely since I very much doubt I'm anywhere close to being a truly 'good' player on the level of some that I see around.
Every ship that I have bought I get use out of.
My main uses the T6 Phantom...he's an escort captain and not much will get him out the ship.
my Fed ENG...flies the T5U Sovereign...I do have the Guardian but I really love the Sovy.
My Fed SCI alts between the Vesta and the temporal science ship
My Fed Tac cruiser captain alts between the Tac Oddy and the Guardian....I do like the look of Ody
I did buy the Kumari pack for my main...since he wasn't using it I created a tac Fed andorian just for it.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I'm glad your ships still work for the kiddie pool content you enjoy. My old ships no longer work for the end-game content I built them for. (whereas my cars still do)
I hear it doesn't matter what ship you PvP in these days
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
The competitive end-game for cars hasn't changed though. IE, speed limits are still the same, and an old car can go just as fast as a new car. You can make an old car hyper-efficient the same as a new one, simpler in some cases since they often weigh much less. Old cars are also more comfortable, etc. In some cases older is better, simper suspensions and powertrain make for better durability off-road. You would have to find some very narrow competitive scenario where newer is significantly better (safety and comfort), which aren't actually competitive in the same way as "I can travel further on the same amount of gas" or "I can cross a field that you can't"
The end-game in STO was arbitrarily changed for the purpose of shaking the money tree. All my builds were no longer competitive, not from neglect or anything on my part.
Since we're talkimg competitive driving/racing...tell me where these speed limits are? If everyone is allowed to go only a certain speed then how is anyone to pass anyone unless the person in front of them makes a error or the car malfunctions? Unless you think there is a lot of competition in the pit lane which to my knowledge is the only lane with a speed limit in nascar for example.
In some cases older is better you say? Why heck...that reminds me of a little ship called the Scimitar...it's older than any T6 and yet it still is one of the best if not the best top performers!
Only real regret I've had was the scim. I know, i know, its OP, but thats not why I got it, and for my Rom i prefer the more maneuverable ships, and I didn't check the Scim's turn rate until AFTER i had bought it and found it slow to turn. Had i realized before hand, i would have gotten the Intel ship instead.
After that, i found i just didn't want to play my Rom anymore.
Since we're talkimg competitive driving/racing...tell me where these speed limits are? If everyone is allowed to go only a certain speed then how is anyone to pass anyone unless the person in front of them makes a error or the car malfunctions? Unless you think there is a lot of competition in the pit lane which to my knowledge is the only lane with a speed limit in nascar for example.
I don't run NASCAR, and we are talking about production cars (modified but legal)
In some cases older is better you say? Why heck...that reminds me of a little ship called the Scimitar...it's older than any T6 and yet it still is one of the best if not the best top performers!
I didn't buy a scimitar crutch pack or a vesta crutch pack, I built PVP ships around horrible ships like Nebula and Kamarag and made them work, and now there is nothing that can save them
Ironacly all of the loxbox ships i own i feel like i shouldnt have gotten them.
Jem'Hadar Heavy Escort Carrierdont know whats wrong with it just once i had it i used it for about a month and slinged it to my starship graveyard.
Tal Shiar Adapted Battle Cruiserstill using it on my kdf Rommie but im starting to think i want to toss it, its turn rate is ok but its layout is unappealing now and im getting tired of simply standing still and hurling cannon fire its boring.
Vaadwaur Manasa Assault Escorti honestly thought id like the 5/2 weapon setup but again its just me standing still shooting things, it also doesn't fit my Ferasan character at all.
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
There's quite a few ships I regretted buying when I found out they weren't what I thought they were. The adapted destroyer comes to mind for one. On the other hand, there are ships I don't regret getting at all, like the astika. Great ship that one. I don't spend my own money though, I grind and then spend other people's money, so I don't feel as much like I've 'wasted' money, just time which I have tons of. Ultimately though, it's my own fault and it's really not the end of the world, so I don't worry about it too much. I get what I can out of them and then move on.
I don't want to talk you into something unsuited to you...
But I wasn't interested in the Command Ships either and so didn't jump on them. I got the TAC command cruiser, phantom and eclipse just to have the traits to make my Excelsior sing using birthday money.
And while I hated the Kobali ship, I love the TAC Command Ship. Inspiration, good trait, hanger bay, and enough turn rate to not feel like pig. And the looks grew on me instead of decaying.
It's the first STO designed ship that feels to me like a future (i.e. 25th century) starship. Enough of the old concepts, and enough new in the right balance.
I'm still keeping my Excelsior around however.
You hit on the one ship that keeps calling to me.
It seems like something I would like, but I've grown very cautious.
I don't run NASCAR, and we are talking about production cars (modified but legal)
Well obviously you don't run NASCAR but what do you run then?
This comparison is flawed because most people - probably yourself included - use their cars to go from point A to B.
That is not doing "end game content" in this context.
If you drag race at an actual track or road race at a track, then you can say it's "end game content."
In this case, yes new cars are better than old cars. It's how things work.
Even in the point A to B case, new cars better than old cars. They get better gas mileage, have more HP, more features, etc. Your old car probably doesn't have Bluetooth, your new car does.
As someone who DOES drag race and road race, I can tell you this analogy is flawed as hell. And yes, T5 or T5U ships are perfectly fine for end game content unless you really just want to wave your e-peen around in which case, T6 is there to satisfy you.
There's quite a few ships I regretted buying when I found out they weren't what I thought they were. The adapted destroyer comes to mind for one. On the other hand, there are ships I don't regret getting at all, like the astika. Great ship that one. I don't spend my own money though, I grind and then spend other people's money, so I don't feel as much like I've 'wasted' money, just time which I have tons of. Ultimately though, it's my own fault and it's really not the end of the world, so I don't worry about it too much. I get what I can out of them and then move on.
Just out of curiosity, how long does it take you to grind 150+ million EC?
I've started to grind for stuff in the past, but I don't have the patience to keep this up for long. I'm lucky if I can get 1 million per day (assuming about 1-2hrs of playing)
I don't regret any of the ships I purchased. I only purchase ships after careful consideration and only when they go on sale.
T3 - Vandal Destroyer - Obviously for the plasmonic leech, but it's also pretty fun to fly.
T5u - B'rel BoP Retrofit - Probably my most favorite ship in the game. This is the only ship that is currently flown by more than one toon... but that's mostly due to the fact that the KDF does not really have a good science vessel and the B'rel BoP Retrofit makes for a decent substitute.
DR Ops Pack - I have not flown every ship yet. Overall, a good bundle of ships and other stuff especially when purchased on sale.
I kind of regret buying the Guardian.. even though it's a great ship.
People say 'it only has 3 tac consoles' but it still does plenty of damage.. it's not that. It's just that after buying it, over time I became less and less enamored with it. There are things about the appearance that I don't like, and the ship has almost zero customization options. It's a good ship, but at the end of the day it just looked like every other Guardian and it gives it a very 'cookie cutter' feel.
A couple months later, the Command ships came out. I got the Presidio and now the Guardian gets no use at all. The only thing I really ended up getting for 3k Zen was an ok trait. I got pretty good use out of all my other purchases, but the Guardian ended up being 3k Zen to use as a couple month transition from my FACR to my Presidio.
I kind of regret buying the Guardian.. even though it's a great ship.
People say 'it only has 3 tac consoles' but it still does plenty of damage.. it's not that. It's just that after buying it, over time I became less and less enamored with it. There are things about the appearance that I don't like, and the ship has almost zero customization options. It's a good ship, but at the end of the day it just looked like every other Guardian and it gives it a very 'cookie cutter' feel.
A couple months later, the Command ships came out. I got the Presidio and now the Guardian gets no use at all. The only thing I really ended up getting for 3k Zen was an ok trait. I got pretty good use out of all my other purchases, but the Guardian ended up being 3k Zen to use as a couple month transition from my FACR to my Presidio.
Not the best use of Zen.:rolleyes:
That the same reaction and path I had, except I was more disappointed in the TAC console count having come from my Excelsior. And even the trait got replaced in the end.
Just out of curiosity, how long does it take you to grind 150+ million EC?
I did it by selling omega shards during the anniversary event, and I had about 60mil to start with from various previous sales of loads of stuff, plus at the time the astika was only 107mil, so all in all it didn't take me all that long to get the money, but I was also in like the best position possible to start the grind that time. Normally it'd take a lot longer. The only other lockbox ship I bought rather than getting lucky enough to actually get from a lockbox without spending billions on keys was the adapted destroyer I mentioned above. That one I got ages ago by selling very rare romulan/reman boffs with the best traits, getting them by repeatedly levelling romulan characters. Those boffs were going for like 30-40mil each back then though, not sure what they go for now but I doubt it's as much.
I kind of regret buying the Guardian.. even though it's a great ship.
People say 'it only has 3 tac consoles' but it still does plenty of damage.. it's not that. It's just that after buying it, over time I became less and less enamored with it. There are things about the appearance that I don't like, and the ship has almost zero customization options. It's a good ship, but at the end of the day it just looked like every other Guardian and it gives it a very 'cookie cutter' feel.
A couple months later, the Command ships came out. I got the Presidio and now the Guardian gets no use at all. The only thing I really ended up getting for 3k Zen was an ok trait. I got pretty good use out of all my other purchases, but the Guardian ended up being 3k Zen to use as a couple month transition from my FACR to my Presidio.
Not the best use of Zen.:rolleyes:
My only issue with the ship is it looks like the Galaxy's younger brother and I am not to fond of that ship's look. I was hoping cruises would keep the looks of the Sovereign and Oddy.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Only ships I ever regretted was the Galaxy Bundle (both Galaxies and the Gal-X).
Too restrictive to build with at those levels, so even my Engineers just run with a Tac ship at T4 and any other ship at T5.
As well, the Odyssey bundle was much more useful than the Galaxies, doing most everything they could do, but better (expected; given that they were Flagship level and newer). All that's missing is a built-in long-range BFG lance, and that's only a minor thing (there should be one on a Mirror Odyssey; to go with the war-like nature of the Terrans).
This comparison is flawed because most people - probably yourself included - use their cars to go from point A to B.
That is not doing "end game content" in this context.
It wasn't my analogy. I assume that the persons who call upon it (misguidedly) do look at it in terms of A-to-B driving since its such a shallow argument. My point is that older production vehicles are comparable with newer production vehicles anywhere that competition matters--performance, mileage, car shows, areas where street-legal production cars would be able to compete. To the extent that there is any kind of "end game" competition (PVP) then older cars are more than capable.
And yes, T5 or T5U ships are perfectly fine for end game content unless you really just want to wave your e-peen around in which case, T6 is there to satisfy you.
They may be suitable for the end-game you participate in, doesn't mean they are suitable for the end-game I built them for.
I do not regret buying any of the ships, as I enjoyed most of them throughout the first 4 yrs of the game. However; Due to the recent DR changes & the blind side maneuver from Cryptic with the whole Tier 6 lineup, I have not purchased any more ships other than the recently developed Pathfinder edition with Voyager Interior.
To be honest, I would prefer that they sell token upgrades to full Tier 6 status, with intel Boff and ship skills. But I know it will never happen. Are my Tier 5 vessels obsolete? Well that's a matter of opinion and personal view. T5-U doesn't really fit the end game portion of STO and it feels like we're missing out on better performance. Rank 51 and above feels like a Tier 6 exclusive club, but that's for the most part my opinion on the matter.
So in essence I do not regret purchasing my Tier 5 ships, even though deep down I feel they were made obsolete and to under perform, especially in the face of all the new content and rank system. We can forget about PvP, for the obvious reasons.
T5-U doesn't really fit the end game portion of STO and it feels like we're missing out on better performance. Rank 51 and above feels like a Tier 6 exclusive club, but that's for the most part my opinion on the matter.
It's not much more different than new and better armor sets in other MMOs being released with a major expansion. The old armors are still competent for most general runs, but new armors just make certain runs and content easier, faster, or more efficient.
Granted, the difference as far as STO goes is that they sell you that new armor straight-up, rather than having to grind for it and hope it has the right stats (or worse, is even for the right class), though one can grind for them if they really want (via eventual Fleet versions or Lobi/Lockbox versions using EC, or through Dil->Zen).
i dont have any real ship remorse , though i dont buy every shiny ship that comes out of the dock either.
I tend to wait for the most part and see , if certain ships fit my style or certain favorite Canon ships though i tend to purchase . i bought a Pathfinder , mostly for the bridge but i liked the Pathfinder design and im a intrepid fan .
i bought the oddy , i liked the design there and i have a build on it that works for it .
i tend to acquire ships for each different toon. even though ill buy a ship for one i may not put it on another .
It wasn't my analogy. I assume that the persons who call upon it (misguidedly) do look at it in terms of A-to-B driving since its such a shallow argument. My point is that older production vehicles are comparable with newer production vehicles anywhere that competition matters--performance, mileage, car shows, areas where street-legal production cars would be able to compete. To the extent that there is any kind of "end game" competition (PVP) then older cars are more than capable.
They may be suitable for the end-game you participate in, doesn't mean they are suitable for the end-game I built them for.
So, have you even considered adjusting to the new end-game content that now exists?
Looking through this thread and my own collection of ships I have to say I'm not completely unsatisfied in my purchases. But not fully happy either. Mostly due to the fact I got the ships for one character and rarely do any fit any of my others (well the t5 defiant being the exception).
With the power creep of the new T6's I'm more saddened that I can't use the new boff powers then the minor stat increases of the new vessels. I managed to get through the DR content in my old t4 AC that is armed with mostly rep gear (I use two fleet BAs and that's it) so the old ships are obsolete yet.
As for a token to upgrade an old vessel to use the new hybrid powers, I'd like to train my boffs in the new specs first, then work to allowing for a universal station upgrade. Even if it's to change one station to a full universal that would be amazing in helping us customize our vessels and make them truely ours.
So, have you even considered adjusting to the new end-game content that now exists?
There is no PVP content anymore. Well, I guess I could buy a T6 set and play that, but its boring. My interest was things like, how to make Eject Warp Plasma work on an engineering heavy battlecruiser in PVP. Those days are gone and the ships I bought for that are all useless in today's game. Hence why I regret buying them.
Comments
Oddy pack meh I should have gotten the tac only - best ship in the game for an engineer period bar none
scimi pack
vesta pack
dyson pack
and the characters made for them are not great..
T5.
I have, thus far at least, had no issues doing anything that I was doing before in it. Of course that's not to say that I won't encounter issues in future, in fact it's probably likely since I very much doubt I'm anywhere close to being a truly 'good' player on the level of some that I see around.
So far so good though, and that'll do me.
My main uses the T6 Phantom...he's an escort captain and not much will get him out the ship.
my Fed ENG...flies the T5U Sovereign...I do have the Guardian but I really love the Sovy.
My Fed SCI alts between the Vesta and the temporal science ship
My Fed Tac cruiser captain alts between the Tac Oddy and the Guardian....I do like the look of Ody
I did buy the Kumari pack for my main...since he wasn't using it I created a tac Fed andorian just for it.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I hear it doesn't matter what ship you PvP in these days
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Since we're talkimg competitive driving/racing...tell me where these speed limits are? If everyone is allowed to go only a certain speed then how is anyone to pass anyone unless the person in front of them makes a error or the car malfunctions? Unless you think there is a lot of competition in the pit lane which to my knowledge is the only lane with a speed limit in nascar for example.
In some cases older is better you say? Why heck...that reminds me of a little ship called the Scimitar...it's older than any T6 and yet it still is one of the best if not the best top performers!
After that, i found i just didn't want to play my Rom anymore.
I didn't buy a scimitar crutch pack or a vesta crutch pack, I built PVP ships around horrible ships like Nebula and Kamarag and made them work, and now there is nothing that can save them
Jem'Hadar Heavy Escort Carrierdont know whats wrong with it just once i had it i used it for about a month and slinged it to my starship graveyard.
Tal Shiar Adapted Battle Cruiserstill using it on my kdf Rommie but im starting to think i want to toss it, its turn rate is ok but its layout is unappealing now and im getting tired of simply standing still and hurling cannon fire its boring.
Vaadwaur Manasa Assault Escorti honestly thought id like the 5/2 weapon setup but again its just me standing still shooting things, it also doesn't fit my Ferasan character at all.
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
You hit on the one ship that keeps calling to me.
It seems like something I would like, but I've grown very cautious.
Well obviously you don't run NASCAR but what do you run then?
This comparison is flawed because most people - probably yourself included - use their cars to go from point A to B.
That is not doing "end game content" in this context.
If you drag race at an actual track or road race at a track, then you can say it's "end game content."
In this case, yes new cars are better than old cars. It's how things work.
Even in the point A to B case, new cars better than old cars. They get better gas mileage, have more HP, more features, etc. Your old car probably doesn't have Bluetooth, your new car does.
As someone who DOES drag race and road race, I can tell you this analogy is flawed as hell. And yes, T5 or T5U ships are perfectly fine for end game content unless you really just want to wave your e-peen around in which case, T6 is there to satisfy you.
Just out of curiosity, how long does it take you to grind 150+ million EC?
I've started to grind for stuff in the past, but I don't have the patience to keep this up for long. I'm lucky if I can get 1 million per day (assuming about 1-2hrs of playing)
Really, Kumari is the only ship set I simply never use any more. And I didn't bother to get T5-U upgrade tokens for it, either.
Thanks to Bort, Intel is now dead; but I still would have gotten the Phantom for its Trait.
Other than that, my others ships I still fly.
T3 - Vandal Destroyer - Obviously for the plasmonic leech, but it's also pretty fun to fly.
T5u - B'rel BoP Retrofit - Probably my most favorite ship in the game. This is the only ship that is currently flown by more than one toon... but that's mostly due to the fact that the KDF does not really have a good science vessel and the B'rel BoP Retrofit makes for a decent substitute.
DR Ops Pack - I have not flown every ship yet. Overall, a good bundle of ships and other stuff especially when purchased on sale.
People say 'it only has 3 tac consoles' but it still does plenty of damage.. it's not that. It's just that after buying it, over time I became less and less enamored with it. There are things about the appearance that I don't like, and the ship has almost zero customization options. It's a good ship, but at the end of the day it just looked like every other Guardian and it gives it a very 'cookie cutter' feel.
A couple months later, the Command ships came out. I got the Presidio and now the Guardian gets no use at all. The only thing I really ended up getting for 3k Zen was an ok trait. I got pretty good use out of all my other purchases, but the Guardian ended up being 3k Zen to use as a couple month transition from my FACR to my Presidio.
Not the best use of Zen.:rolleyes:
That the same reaction and path I had, except I was more disappointed in the TAC console count having come from my Excelsior. And even the trait got replaced in the end.
I did it by selling omega shards during the anniversary event, and I had about 60mil to start with from various previous sales of loads of stuff, plus at the time the astika was only 107mil, so all in all it didn't take me all that long to get the money, but I was also in like the best position possible to start the grind that time. Normally it'd take a lot longer. The only other lockbox ship I bought rather than getting lucky enough to actually get from a lockbox without spending billions on keys was the adapted destroyer I mentioned above. That one I got ages ago by selling very rare romulan/reman boffs with the best traits, getting them by repeatedly levelling romulan characters. Those boffs were going for like 30-40mil each back then though, not sure what they go for now but I doubt it's as much.
My only issue with the ship is it looks like the Galaxy's younger brother and I am not to fond of that ship's look. I was hoping cruises would keep the looks of the Sovereign and Oddy.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Too restrictive to build with at those levels, so even my Engineers just run with a Tac ship at T4 and any other ship at T5.
As well, the Odyssey bundle was much more useful than the Galaxies, doing most everything they could do, but better (expected; given that they were Flagship level and newer). All that's missing is a built-in long-range BFG lance, and that's only a minor thing (there should be one on a Mirror Odyssey; to go with the war-like nature of the Terrans).
They may be suitable for the end-game you participate in, doesn't mean they are suitable for the end-game I built them for.
To be honest, I would prefer that they sell token upgrades to full Tier 6 status, with intel Boff and ship skills. But I know it will never happen. Are my Tier 5 vessels obsolete? Well that's a matter of opinion and personal view. T5-U doesn't really fit the end game portion of STO and it feels like we're missing out on better performance. Rank 51 and above feels like a Tier 6 exclusive club, but that's for the most part my opinion on the matter.
So in essence I do not regret purchasing my Tier 5 ships, even though deep down I feel they were made obsolete and to under perform, especially in the face of all the new content and rank system. We can forget about PvP, for the obvious reasons.
Granted, the difference as far as STO goes is that they sell you that new armor straight-up, rather than having to grind for it and hope it has the right stats (or worse, is even for the right class), though one can grind for them if they really want (via eventual Fleet versions or Lobi/Lockbox versions using EC, or through Dil->Zen).
I'm enjoying mine too as a silly rainbow boat. It's a solid ship for its tier and class. It's just not for everyone.
I tend to wait for the most part and see , if certain ships fit my style or certain favorite Canon ships though i tend to purchase . i bought a Pathfinder , mostly for the bridge but i liked the Pathfinder design and im a intrepid fan .
i bought the oddy , i liked the design there and i have a build on it that works for it .
i tend to acquire ships for each different toon. even though ill buy a ship for one i may not put it on another .
With some damn fine coffee to go with it?
So, have you even considered adjusting to the new end-game content that now exists?
With the power creep of the new T6's I'm more saddened that I can't use the new boff powers then the minor stat increases of the new vessels. I managed to get through the DR content in my old t4 AC that is armed with mostly rep gear (I use two fleet BAs and that's it) so the old ships are obsolete yet.
As for a token to upgrade an old vessel to use the new hybrid powers, I'd like to train my boffs in the new specs first, then work to allowing for a universal station upgrade. Even if it's to change one station to a full universal that would be amazing in helping us customize our vessels and make them truely ours.