Wow am in a stated of shock. can someone please explain the reason why we have game forum. why did he feel the need to post his thread on REDDIT instead of the STO Forums.
"You ask why we give our ships computer normal emotions. Do you really want a warship incapable of loyalty?"
When it comes to the business, I have a boss just like everyone else, and he has a boss, and so on. Not everything we do is my decision, but I stand behind everything we have done and I am proud of it.
Ok, you are not responsible for every questionable decision, however, you stand behind every decision, as required by your position. Accepted.
But why are you proud of it?
I guess the main point I am trying to make is that I know not everyone loves every aspect of STO, and sometimes I am the scapegoat for that. That's OK. But remember this - If there are design aspects of STO you dont like, I am probably in some way responsible for that. I am sorry you dont like those things. But on the other side, if there is something you love about the game (the story, the systems, the ships, the characters, the missions, the items, the enemies, the Star Trek-iness), I probably had a lot to do with that too.
Sorry to disappoint you. The most aspects of the game i love were introduces in earlier stages. Now they are gradually removed and replaced by "don't likes".
If he posts here. the thread will go to hell by... page 3?
or someone "instantly" demanding the dev have a look at another thread running the dev off, rinse lather repeat, for months ... and years... decades..... cen.t..i.... mell....ia...................
(temporal sink lost past this point, the signal is to badly degraded ...)
or someone "instantly" demanding the dev have a look at another thread running the dev off, rinse lather repeat, for months ... and years... decades..... cen.t..i.... mell....ia...................
(temporal sink lost past this point, the signal is to badly degraded ...)
lol
You guys do realize we're on Page 4, yet the only "burning" I've seen so far is yours ...
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
Wow am in a stated of shock. can someone please explain the reason why we have game forum. why did he feel the need to post his thread on REDDIT instead of the STO Forums.
If you haven't been to the forums lately they are not a very friendly place. I don't care where he posted it. The fact is he did. And I for one have to agree there is way more to like then to hate. Do things need to fixed here and there sure. But I am not all doom and gloom like most in the forums. 99% of my fleet wont even come to the forums anymore because of this. And when they do we make fun of them and laugh about it. Haters gotta Hate but that is not very trek either. -Rosa -AFC- Star Knights
Wow am in a stated of shock. can someone please explain the reason why we have game forum. why did he feel the need to post his thread on REDDIT instead of the STO Forums.
Take it that you didn't click the link, eh?
Lol, they should rename the forums here to DIDNTREDDIT for all the folks that don't read things.
lol my friend was banned for having a toon named Geko (not Gecko ,not captain geko or anything else).I dont think its Geko's fault the idiots GMs in game ban left and right without using their brains ,but I do think they need to slow the F down with bans.You can't play /have fun/pay/invest time and money in something that can get you banned any time.
Anyway only geko's fault is his hate for pvp and pvp players.The game will never be fun without PvP...PvP means balanced powers and ships .PvE should be for ocazional grind .All people which are in homo sapiens like to play with other people not with npcs.You can add pve in game in all forms ,as long the pvp is balanced the game is balanced and people would feel each ship/class is different experience.
Also i dont doubt he likes star trek but i do know he has no idea how the game is.
all games with pvp are on top of steam charts..The drama from pvp and stories are what keeps the comunity together.Thats why all pvp people i know are on my friends list...we play/ed togheter and have more to talk about our matches than any pve player about stfs.
As was said in another PvP thread recently, PvP is not the lifeblood of the game, however it is vital to the balance of it. Without the PvP aspect the game degrades rapidly into powercreep as there are no checks and balances against it.
This then snowballs into something resembling current STO. So many features that are unfinished intertwined into a mess of annoyance and busy work with little gain or challenge by the end of it.
Oh and for those that thing laser sponges are challenging, they aren't. They're utterly fraking boring. Sitting there for 20 minutes killing one or two ships due to excessive hull and shield levels (sometimes 10x those of your own) is just tedious. If it was a Boss ship or something within reason then maybe, but not every damn Vaadwaur Artillery ship.
There are lots of ways to increase interactivity for players, whether in groups or PvP. Allowing for Solo, Group and Comptitive Solo and Group play. Most have been ignored by STO as it charts a course through misdirection and idiocracy. I would genuinely love to have a discussion with both Al 'Geko' Rivera and the EP D'Angelo as to why they chose their current directions and why they can't alter direction and essentially fix the flaws to a potentially good game.
Chris Robert's on SC:
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
At this point, negativity isn't getting anywhere for anyone.
A curious, but ultimately irrelevant, point.
It's fairly clear why the man made the post on Reddit rather than here. Just based on the tone of comments, it's become fairly clear that many players who utilize the forum heavily are going to bother to respect what the man says at face value.
From the standpoint of 'let bygones be bygones', one might then assume your statement has validity. Unfortunately, the core concept of what the man said (and obviously believes) based on his podcast statements, forum posting, and even this Reddit thing have not changed.
If you repeatedly make poor design decisions and alienate your userbase, you are quite frankly incompetent to be a Lead Developer. I am not attempting to be insulting, only stating facts. If you can't develop mechanics and systems that engage and retain a playerbase in a fashion that the majority (not everyone, just the majority) of players are happy, then by definition you fail.
And if you're immature enough to let the comments of players goad you into saying something insulting to the playerbase in a public podcast -- knowing full well it will be brought up ad nauseum -- then you clearly shouldn't be in a client-facing position.
'Forgiving' him for what he's said and turning down the negativity only works if the man in question shows indications that he plans to change his own methodologies and outlooks -- and frankly, I don't see that.
I see another rather ham-handed attempt to justify actions and imply that his choices must be respected because there are things about the game that are good that people like and he is affiliated with said things.
I quote, "Not everything we do is my decision, but I stand behind everything we have done and I am proud of it. "
That in and of itself is the statement that he sees nothing wrong with the current situation.
If there had been anything in this note along the lines of 'we'll work through the problems the game has' or the like, the response would have been different. But we are literally given a story about how the man loves Star Trek, is a huge fan, loves STO, and while he's made some bad calls he is responsible for it all and if you like STO you must like him to cuz yeah.
Valoreah, I have issues with agreeing that the negativity is unfounded or not getting anywhere, based on the above. The negativity is a response to stimuli, and dropping it will only convince people like him that the actions they are taking are somehow GOOD.
Logic suggests that you should not agree to give someone the benefit of the doubt if they continue to act in the manner that lead you to doubt them in the first place.
Reading that letter, I get a very strong feeling of, "look, guys, it's not me. Perfect World is making me do all of this. More grind, more monetization. I don't like it either, but it's my job, okay? They tell me what to do and I have to do it. So can you cut me some slack?"
Whether you see the same, or believe it, or have any sympathy for it, is up to you.
Reading that letter, I get a very strong feeling of, "look, guys, it's not me. Perfect World is making me do all of this. More grind, more monetization. I don't like it either, but it's my job, okay? So can you cut me some slack?"
If his job is to make a game worse at the say so of some people who know little about the game, then I'd be telling them that they are asking me to do something that isn't beneficial to their bottom line and flipsiding the argument.
Thing is he can always go back to working on CCG's...
Chris Robert's on SC:
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
And would you be likely to say so to your boss, if you had a strong notion that his (or her) reply would be "noted; do it anyway, just like I said", or cut straight to "fine, you're fired; security will be along to escort you off the premises"? Please, be honest.
It's fairly clear why the man made the post on Reddit rather than here. Just based on the tone of comments, it's become fairly clear that many players who utilize the forum heavily are going to bother to respect what the man says at face value.
I thought it was fairly clear that the post was made on reddit because it was a response to a post that was on reddit. Kinda makes sense.
"You Iconians just hung a vacancy sign on your asses and my foot's looking for a room!"
--Red Annorax
And would you be likely to say so to your boss, if you had a strong notion that his (or her) reply would be "noted; do it anyway, just like I said", or cut straight to "fine, you're fired; security will be along to escort you off the premises"? Please, be honest.
Yeah, Chinese overlords don't take having their authority questioned all that well.
"You Iconians just hung a vacancy sign on your asses and my foot's looking for a room!"
--Red Annorax
Reading that letter, I get a very strong feeling of, "look, guys, it's not me. Perfect World is making me do all of this. More grind, more monetization. I don't like it either, but it's my job, okay? They tell me what to do and I have to do it. So can you cut me some slack?"
Whether you see the same, or believe it, or have any sympathy for it, is up to you.
I get more of the sense "hey, this is my job. I'm at least partly responsible for what you don't like about it. But as with you at some level I love the game too."
Which invites people to start acting more human and less like a dim mob trying to chase what it merely doesn't approve of out of the village. In every aspect of life there's problems, and the way to deal with them isn't to villify a figurehead.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Of course I do. Yes, we all know (myself included) the man has insulted all of us via comments made in podcasts.
At this point, negativity isn't getting anywhere for anyone.
Then again, neither has being nice, or giving well thought out feedback. At this point, I think Cryptic/PWE is just going to do what they are going to do. Player feedback, nice or not, plays very little, if any part in it.
the Reputation system. STO was perfectly fine before that came along. In fact, getting shiny things from Elite STFs, taking the shiny things to DS9, and exchanging them for gear, that was how I equipped all of my ships and ground crew. It worked, it was easy, and it was enjoyable. And I liked it exactly the way it was.
As someone who doesn't have godly luck nor enjoy farming, I disagree with everything in the above quote.
Guaranteed progress for your efforts is better than praying to RNG.
Then again, neither has being nice, or giving well thought out feedback.
Really? No well thought out feedback? Remember the BOff power thread? How many pages of well though out ideas were made? Problem is the players have made tons of pages of well thought out feedback and beaten so many horses to death we don't know what to do anymore.
Want another example of well thought out feedback? The players knew Tau Daewa was borked before DR released and TOLD the developers. Everyone knows the end of that debacle.
Then again, neither has being nice, or giving well thought out feedback. At this point, I think Cryptic/PWE is just going to do what they are going to do. Player feedback, nice or not, plays very little, if any part in it.
You can trace almost every horrible thing Cryptic has done back to players requesting it. There are many different players in this game, and they do not all agree on things. Somehow amidst some of the arguments out there, Cryptic listened to the "other" side in things. It's sad and funny at the same time, imho. :)
Really? No well thought out feedback? Remember the BOff power thread? How many pages of well though out ideas were made? Problem is the players have made tons of pages of well thought out feedback and beaten so many horses to death we don't know what to do anymore.
Want another example of well thought out feedback? The players knew Tau Daewa was borked before DR released and TOLD the developers. Everyone knows the end of that debacle.
...
I never said we don't give feedback. I said it doesn't matter if we do, if they aren't listening. Remember, this is the man that went on a podcast and proclaimed no useable feedback to the DOFF/UI revamp. This is also the man that says he only reads the forums to count down to Hitler references.
And the inverse of this is that posters here on the forums (and all over various other gaming sites) have shown themselves to be immature by their comments as well.
And the inverse of THAT is that I do not expect random customers to be civil.
If the forum posters are immature, big deal. They are the customer. They are spending money on a product. Many of them aren't even adults, I would suspect.
Geko, on the other hand, is supposedly a grown man who is in the Lead Development position of a major MMO for a large international corporation. If he can't demonstrate any more circumspect thoughts than to not insult large swaths of the customer base, that is a more serious failure.
DStahl never had this problem. Lots of people didn't like him, but most people respected him. The same cannot be said for Geko. I get where you are coming from -- I merely feel that until the core issues are handled -- namely, you cannot simply insult and disregard feedback from your customer base even if they are 'immature' -- that rapprochment and toning down the negativity is likely to be misconstrued as approval.
I do agree that much of the negativity is pointless. Unfortunately, Cryptic has (as you well know) a bad track record of only backing off certain things when the customer base loses it's entire minds and the forums resemble an active volcano.
And would you be likely to say so to your boss, if you had a strong notion that his (or her) reply would be "noted; do it anyway, just like I said", or cut straight to "fine, you're fired; security will be along to escort you off the premises"? Please, be honest.
Done it before. Been escorted out by security before too. It's not worth bowing, scraping or begging from someone who doesn't know what they are actually working on/with.
Chris Robert's on SC:
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
Comments
Ok, you are not responsible for every questionable decision, however, you stand behind every decision, as required by your position. Accepted.
But why are you proud of it?
Sorry to disappoint you. The most aspects of the game i love were introduces in earlier stages. Now they are gradually removed and replaced by "don't likes".
Holy Grail of Gamification is Addiction | 5 Ways to Accomplisch | and the Psychology of Freemium
or someone "instantly" demanding the dev have a look at another thread running the dev off, rinse lather repeat, for months ... and years... decades..... cen.t..i.... mell....ia...................
(temporal sink lost past this point, the signal is to badly degraded ...)
lol
lol, the thread would burn before the text of his post got cold.
R.I.P
You guys do realize we're on Page 4, yet the only "burning" I've seen so far is yours ...
Take it that you didn't click the link, eh?
Lol, they should rename the forums here to DIDNTREDDIT for all the folks that don't read things.
you'll have to share with the rest of the class, no passing notes now lol :P
As was said in another PvP thread recently, PvP is not the lifeblood of the game, however it is vital to the balance of it. Without the PvP aspect the game degrades rapidly into powercreep as there are no checks and balances against it.
This then snowballs into something resembling current STO. So many features that are unfinished intertwined into a mess of annoyance and busy work with little gain or challenge by the end of it.
Oh and for those that thing laser sponges are challenging, they aren't. They're utterly fraking boring. Sitting there for 20 minutes killing one or two ships due to excessive hull and shield levels (sometimes 10x those of your own) is just tedious. If it was a Boss ship or something within reason then maybe, but not every damn Vaadwaur Artillery ship.
There are lots of ways to increase interactivity for players, whether in groups or PvP. Allowing for Solo, Group and Comptitive Solo and Group play. Most have been ignored by STO as it charts a course through misdirection and idiocracy. I would genuinely love to have a discussion with both Al 'Geko' Rivera and the EP D'Angelo as to why they chose their current directions and why they can't alter direction and essentially fix the flaws to a potentially good game.
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
A curious, but ultimately irrelevant, point.
It's fairly clear why the man made the post on Reddit rather than here. Just based on the tone of comments, it's become fairly clear that many players who utilize the forum heavily are going to bother to respect what the man says at face value.
From the standpoint of 'let bygones be bygones', one might then assume your statement has validity. Unfortunately, the core concept of what the man said (and obviously believes) based on his podcast statements, forum posting, and even this Reddit thing have not changed.
If you repeatedly make poor design decisions and alienate your userbase, you are quite frankly incompetent to be a Lead Developer. I am not attempting to be insulting, only stating facts. If you can't develop mechanics and systems that engage and retain a playerbase in a fashion that the majority (not everyone, just the majority) of players are happy, then by definition you fail.
And if you're immature enough to let the comments of players goad you into saying something insulting to the playerbase in a public podcast -- knowing full well it will be brought up ad nauseum -- then you clearly shouldn't be in a client-facing position.
'Forgiving' him for what he's said and turning down the negativity only works if the man in question shows indications that he plans to change his own methodologies and outlooks -- and frankly, I don't see that.
I see another rather ham-handed attempt to justify actions and imply that his choices must be respected because there are things about the game that are good that people like and he is affiliated with said things.
I quote, "Not everything we do is my decision, but I stand behind everything we have done and I am proud of it. "
That in and of itself is the statement that he sees nothing wrong with the current situation.
If there had been anything in this note along the lines of 'we'll work through the problems the game has' or the like, the response would have been different. But we are literally given a story about how the man loves Star Trek, is a huge fan, loves STO, and while he's made some bad calls he is responsible for it all and if you like STO you must like him to cuz yeah.
Valoreah, I have issues with agreeing that the negativity is unfounded or not getting anywhere, based on the above. The negativity is a response to stimuli, and dropping it will only convince people like him that the actions they are taking are somehow GOOD.
Logic suggests that you should not agree to give someone the benefit of the doubt if they continue to act in the manner that lead you to doubt them in the first place.
Whether you see the same, or believe it, or have any sympathy for it, is up to you.
If his job is to make a game worse at the say so of some people who know little about the game, then I'd be telling them that they are asking me to do something that isn't beneficial to their bottom line and flipsiding the argument.
Thing is he can always go back to working on CCG's...
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
--Red Annorax
At which point? He's done it multiple times in various podcasts over the years.
--Red Annorax
I get more of the sense "hey, this is my job. I'm at least partly responsible for what you don't like about it. But as with you at some level I love the game too."
Which invites people to start acting more human and less like a dim mob trying to chase what it merely doesn't approve of out of the village. In every aspect of life there's problems, and the way to deal with them isn't to villify a figurehead.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Then again, neither has being nice, or giving well thought out feedback. At this point, I think Cryptic/PWE is just going to do what they are going to do. Player feedback, nice or not, plays very little, if any part in it.
As someone who doesn't have godly luck nor enjoy farming, I disagree with everything in the above quote.
Guaranteed progress for your efforts is better than praying to RNG.
Really? No well thought out feedback? Remember the BOff power thread? How many pages of well though out ideas were made? Problem is the players have made tons of pages of well thought out feedback and beaten so many horses to death we don't know what to do anymore.
Want another example of well thought out feedback? The players knew Tau Daewa was borked before DR released and TOLD the developers. Everyone knows the end of that debacle.
You can trace almost every horrible thing Cryptic has done back to players requesting it. There are many different players in this game, and they do not all agree on things. Somehow amidst some of the arguments out there, Cryptic listened to the "other" side in things. It's sad and funny at the same time, imho.
...
I never said we don't give feedback. I said it doesn't matter if we do, if they aren't listening. Remember, this is the man that went on a podcast and proclaimed no useable feedback to the DOFF/UI revamp. This is also the man that says he only reads the forums to count down to Hitler references.
I will start, can someone hand me a gun?
this reminds me of "The Plastic Bag Challenge" lol!
And the inverse of THAT is that I do not expect random customers to be civil.
If the forum posters are immature, big deal. They are the customer. They are spending money on a product. Many of them aren't even adults, I would suspect.
Geko, on the other hand, is supposedly a grown man who is in the Lead Development position of a major MMO for a large international corporation. If he can't demonstrate any more circumspect thoughts than to not insult large swaths of the customer base, that is a more serious failure.
DStahl never had this problem. Lots of people didn't like him, but most people respected him. The same cannot be said for Geko. I get where you are coming from -- I merely feel that until the core issues are handled -- namely, you cannot simply insult and disregard feedback from your customer base even if they are 'immature' -- that rapprochment and toning down the negativity is likely to be misconstrued as approval.
I do agree that much of the negativity is pointless. Unfortunately, Cryptic has (as you well know) a bad track record of only backing off certain things when the customer base loses it's entire minds and the forums resemble an active volcano.
Done it before. Been escorted out by security before too. It's not worth bowing, scraping or begging from someone who doesn't know what they are actually working on/with.
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."