The devs posting on reddit never posted on the general discussion either, or under extremely rare circumstances, well before DR.
By his own admittance on Twitter, Geko prefer speaking on Reddit because of the mods and vote. Considering how the votes works on reddit, IE everytime someone doesn't say anything positive about STO he is downvoted to oblivion. I truly hope he is not getting his feedback from there, because it's slightly biased. Slightly.
Have you been on the STO subreddit? Slowly but surely it is becoming yet another STO forum with the same jokes and same whining.
The exaggeration bit some folks are doing. I find it to kind of melodramatic. It would be sad to take it too seriously, so it is far easier to laugh at it - think of it in that way.
Like i have said before if I were the one some of you spoke to like you do i would slam down the ban sledge hammer...
No infraction bans they would be permanent ones with zero hope of getting your accounts back..
I find it so frustrating and a little upsetting seeing how people talk to one another on here as ive always been brought up to respect others and treat people how i would want to be treated...
People can be at fault but if thw world went around like some of the people do on here with a massive chip on their shoulder nothing in the world would work...
Regret and forgiveness are key to success in what ever you do.
There is no reason to get so emo on the Internet. It's one of the top ten rules before you are hooked up to the darn thing. :P
In case you didn't notice, the point was that IF Captain Geko would have made the post here that he has made on reddit it would have gone sour in no time. The person i quoted said page 3 while i expected that to happen on the first page already.
It is NOT about on which page we are currently.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
In case you didn't notice, the point was that IF Captain Geko would have made the post here that he has made on reddit it would have gone sour in no time. The person i quoted said page 3 while i expected that to happen on the first page already.
It is NOT about on which page we are currently.
Yeah sorry what's the point again ? WTF does it matter ? His response is still here to read ... why should anyone react differently ... if anything the point being made here by some people, is the response is actually supposed to be "worse" because he didn't respond in person ... something I still can't see, though ...
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
Yeah sorry what's the point again ? WTF does it matter ? His response is till here to read ... why should anyone react differently ... if anything the point being made here by some people is the response is actually supposed to be "worse" because he didn't in person ... something I still can't seek though ...
Not sure it matters where a dev posted text, and i agree, it does not matter ...
It does seem odd that people are angry at sto. Actually raging.
And when you ask why you get the odd answers like "what else do we do".
Either either way, it affected the STO team very badly.
It is inappropriate behaviour.
But gekqwow does need to consider not going to these forums and find another mechanism for feedback from the community.
This is this really, really out of the box kind of thinking but maybe, just maybe, the community manager should do his job and engage the community and correspond with them given that it's his job to do so (in other words, he gets paid to do it).
To put this in perspective, Taco engaged more with the forums in a span of 2-3 days than Smirk has in an entire month and he's not a community manager. Taco literally came into a house on fire and successfully doused most of the flames in one swoop.
And please don't tell me that Smirk's job is impossible and that the forums are impossible to work with because going by the common view on here that all f2p mmo forums are whiney cess pools, then all other community people are in the same boat. You aren't some special snow flake just because sto fans are perceived as more whiney than other mmo fans by the devs. Do your job, treat us with respect and we in turn, will respect you.
The forums are made up of the vocal minority, and while there's plenty of rage, apparently the greater majority not part of the forums for one reason or another are at least supporting the game enough that Cryptic and PWE can continue to do what they're doing.
Otherwise, the vaunted metrics by now should have signaled a clear reversal of some decisions. As it is, I don't think there will be any changes until they've justified DR enough from maybe restricting grinding to Argala for a year (a year of "good" metrics for DR, as it's the only grind spot viable and can be spun as "high player activity in the Delta Quadrant" instead of "players just grinding one spot").
More on-topic, the official forum is pretty self-cannibalizing; this thread being a good example.
Dev responds to a comment on some other forum, with enough proof he is who he is.
Players on the official forum get pissy he didn't copy-paste here when there was no reason to.
Players on the official forum starts a death spiral of blaming and drama.
Death spiral continues until the thread is either locked, or abandoned as pent up emotions are spent.
Not sure it matters where a dev posted text, and i agree, it does not matter ...
You were able to understand that gibberish? I applaud you dear sir.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
The devs don't need to post on these forums at all. Genuinely, I mean that. There's a community manager who should be relaying our concerns and reporting back to us. No dev would need to come onto the forums if that was done.
I disagree.
There is very little tangible evidence that our community managers are tasked with reporting anything back to the development team. From an external viewpoint, the lead Dev and executive management make decisions on the game direction (including features), bugs, and "addressing concerns" -- and the community managers aren't weighing heavily on that, imho. I don't see a back-and-forth taking place with the CMs as an intermediary.
Based on Cryptic's (and PWE/PWI's) management's directions, there's no need to have a community manager. Instead, we seem to have community-focused Communications Managers who posts occasional updates (as provided by their management) and run livestreams.
Devs, however, should be engaged with the community. Plenty of suggestions have been provided about how; those suggestions are falling on deaf ears (or closed eyes/minds). I've worked in Silicon Valley Fortune 100/500 companies for the past two decades; devs DO get engaged in online communities. That's a fact.
What Cryptic is suffering from: Lack of clear mandates in community/player-customer engagement.
Instead, we seem to have a small-company mentality where there's an ivory tower of decision-makers... and a clear disconnect with excellent player-customer interactivity. And devs need to be a part of that. Now.
And Cryptic needs to redefine the role of the Community Manager, too.
Or hire someone willing to step into the role and pro-actively make it into something bigger, more effective. But that would be rocking the management's boat...
Have you been on the STO subreddit? Slowly but surely it is becoming yet another STO forum with the same jokes and same whining.
Yes I do every day. I can see your post to there. Wonder why you keep posting here after the kind of things you say on us.
And yes, every time someone mention the forum, in one way or another, he is downvoted AND trolled. Because redditor are holier than us, the low classes of STO.
And when they don't mention the forum, but are not positive with STO (even minor grievance), they are downvoted right away.
Still, some people are still giving their opinion. That's true.
Tell me, did you ever wondered why even the ultra positive reddit is becoming (your words) like the forum, with all the whining ? Perhaps a lot of people disagreed with cryptic recently ? I don't know, perhaps too obvious. Yeah, I guess that's just people becoming stupid or something.
The people on the STO subreddit are funny. They think they're helping the game with their mindless upvoting and pretending everything is fine with the game.
Saying everything is fine with the game is just as useless as saying everything about the game is terrible.
Maybe it's that Geko prefers the people to be sychophantic yes men rather than critical thinkers who have the ability to spot BS a mile off??
Just looking at his twitter followers shows that XD
I don't really care he didn't post it on here, it was a reply to a genuine Reddit question. The content of the reply however leaves a lot to be desired.
Chris Robert's on SC:
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
I don't really care he didn't post it on here, it was a reply to a genuine Reddit question. The content of the reply however leaves a lot to be desired.
I have to disagree. He gave his opinion, and his feelings. Those are highly subjective, and I'm not going to say he is wrong in his feelings.
STO allows players to get the best end-game items short of lobi-stuff in ~4-6 months of active play.
World of ******** allows players to get the best items in the game (if they are lucky) by doing the same "fleet action" over and over with a 168 hour cool down between attempts.
STO players complain about spending 30 dollars for a one-time purchase of the best ships in the game.
World of ******** players will spend 30 bucks to be allowed to log in over the next 60 days.
STO players can grind a reputation to the maximum for the first time on any toon in 40 days. any subsequent toons can do it in 20 days. It takes a single 15 minute space battle every-other day to get the turn-ins required for the rep daily. (10-20 STFs = Tier 5 rep)
World of ******** takes weeks of grinding 30 minute "fleet actions" to rep something up.
In STO you spend 1-3 days worth of dil to buy a console.
In Wow, you have to hope the "console" you want drops off a single specific boss. That boss can have a 24-168 hour cool-down before you can try again. There is no way to guarantee a drop.
In STO you can use a level 40 ship and level 50 weapons all the way to 60.
in WoW, your gear has to be within 2 levels of you, or you aren't allowed to do any "fleet actions" and enemies will be very hard to kill. Making it to max level with 10-20 level old gear is not advisable.
And to top it off:
If you subscribed to WoW since it released, bought each expansion pack and are active today, You have spent: $2060. Money spent if you subscribed since the day STO launched: $1160
$830 in ships, and all the lifetime benefits, and another 33,000 zen to tie you over - netting you about 5.2 million dilithium.
SO there - if you really want to compare STO to other MMOs, and call STO "Pay to win" and you want to compare what you get for your dollar, consider you can own almost everything and still be paying less than others do for an MMO.
Also consider you like it because Star Trek and the only reason you complain about Dil is because you hate having to wait, and you resent not being willing/able to pay STO money to speed it up.
This is a business. They need you to want to spend money. They need players to feel their money is well spent and they are happy so they will spend again. If the game sucked so bad, how are they celebrating the 5 year event soon?
The vast majority of STO players enjoy the experience - the vocal minority of "angry but unwilling to move on" gamers congregate on online communities to circle-jerk their grievances.
The vast majority of STO players enjoy the experience - the vocal minority of "angry but unwilling to move on" gamers congregate on online communities to circle-jerk their grievances.
Do you have numbers? If not, your entire post is meaningless.
I like Al Rivera. He reminds me of people I've known and gotten along well with. I would buy Al Rivera a drink. I also feel like I could probably have a great one on one discussion with Al Rivera about game design theory, Star Trek, politics, society, and geek culture.
As Captain Geko, there are other, less positive associations for me. I know they're the same guy but I see Geko as a narrow sliver of who Al Rivera is. It's a corporate persona where he takes responsibility for decisions I sometimes strongly dislike as a consumer and this attempt at presenting a unified front for decisions he may or may not have signed off on or that may or may not have come from above (which he may have even resisted internally) grates and I'm not crazy about his relationship with the forums. And even then, the frustration with Geko, for me, boils down to a consumer relationship with a public persona. I think I could work with Al Rivera quite well if that ever happened but that it's hard for me as a consumer to have a dialogue with Geko, maybe in part because Geko seems like a guy it's hard for a consumer to have a dialogue with whereas I can easily picture Al Rivera being an okay guy to have a coffee with or be discussing theory in a room with a whiteboard with.
I think you can like Peter Parker and not always like Spider-man. And that doesn't necessarily change if you know his secret identity because he behaves and performs differently as Spider-man.
So if you're out there, Geko... I frequently, vocally disagree with the strategies you are the public face for at Cryptic but that does not equate to a personal dislike for you as a human, on my end at least.
Aaaand we're back to insults ... thanks for proving my point !
If you rephrase the post in question into something resembling English i will be glad to give a proper reply.
there are a few issues as far as i can tell:
1. STO lead designer post on a 3rd party forum while he ignores Star trek Online's own forum
2. The post at reddit displayed a rather nasty 'Holier than thou" attitude. I'm usually pretty positive about STO and the development team and that attitude rubbed even ME the wrong way. Go figure.
3. A possible explanation, while not a valid excuse in my opinion, that Al "CaptainGeko" Rivera did not make that post here on the STO forum is that it would most likely go sour fast. Like throwing gasoline on a fire.
4. People here, I'm looking at you, start throwing insults around and then claim the ad hominem card.
No offence, but YOU were the one who started the hostile tone from my very first post in this topic. Stop blowing your own horn.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
also some universal code, picked it up and use it myself and have modded mine, use as needed, was originally offered here free for all on the STO forums, you can also mod this for addon use in both google chrome and mozilla firefox
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I like Al Rivera. He reminds me of people I've known and gotten along well with. I would buy Al Rivera a drink. I also feel like I could probably have a great one on one discussion with Al Rivera about game design theory, Star Trek, politics, society, and geek culture.
As Captain Geko, there are other, less positive associations for me. I know they're the same guy but I see Geko as a narrow sliver of who Al Rivera is. It's a corporate persona where he takes responsibility for decisions I sometimes strongly dislike as a consumer and this attempt at presenting a unified front for decisions he may or may not have signed off on or that may or may not have come from above (which he may have even resisted internally) grates and I'm not crazy about his relationship with the forums. And even then, the frustration with Geko, for me, boils down to a consumer relationship with a public persona. I think I could work with Al Rivera quite well if that ever happened but that it's hard for me as a consumer to have a dialogue with Geko, maybe in part because Geko seems like a guy it's hard for a consumer to have a dialogue with whereas I can easily picture Al Rivera being an okay guy to have a coffee with or be discussing theory in a room with a whiteboard with.
I think you can like Peter Parker and not always like Spider-man. And that doesn't necessarily change if you know his secret identity because he behaves and performs differently as Spider-man.
So if you're out there, Geko... I frequently, vocally disagree with the strategies you are the public face for at Cryptic but that does not equate to a personal dislike for you as a human, on my end at least.
I don't think that Mr Rivera is a mean person, I think he is just vrey bad at public relations. The typical nerd if you want. Buried in charts and sliders and buttons and loving it. Not a bad person, just under pressure and being uncomfortable in the spotlight.
Comments
Again we're on Page 13 ... *sigh*
Have you been on the STO subreddit? Slowly but surely it is becoming yet another STO forum with the same jokes and same whining.
The exaggeration bit some folks are doing. I find it to kind of melodramatic. It would be sad to take it too seriously, so it is far easier to laugh at it - think of it in that way.
There is no reason to get so emo on the Internet. It's one of the top ten rules before you are hooked up to the darn thing. :P
So we already went from "many" to "some" ? Sure I can dig that ... yet they're still civil in their response imho ... unless some other guys ...
In case you didn't notice, the point was that IF Captain Geko would have made the post here that he has made on reddit it would have gone sour in no time. The person i quoted said page 3 while i expected that to happen on the first page already.
It is NOT about on which page we are currently.
Yeah sorry what's the point again ? WTF does it matter ? His response is still here to read ... why should anyone react differently ... if anything the point being made here by some people, is the response is actually supposed to be "worse" because he didn't respond in person ... something I still can't see, though ...
Not sure it matters where a dev posted text, and i agree, it does not matter ...
This is this really, really out of the box kind of thinking but maybe, just maybe, the community manager should do his job and engage the community and correspond with them given that it's his job to do so (in other words, he gets paid to do it).
To put this in perspective, Taco engaged more with the forums in a span of 2-3 days than Smirk has in an entire month and he's not a community manager. Taco literally came into a house on fire and successfully doused most of the flames in one swoop.
And please don't tell me that Smirk's job is impossible and that the forums are impossible to work with because going by the common view on here that all f2p mmo forums are whiney cess pools, then all other community people are in the same boat. You aren't some special snow flake just because sto fans are perceived as more whiney than other mmo fans by the devs. Do your job, treat us with respect and we in turn, will respect you.
The forums are made up of the vocal minority, and while there's plenty of rage, apparently the greater majority not part of the forums for one reason or another are at least supporting the game enough that Cryptic and PWE can continue to do what they're doing.
Otherwise, the vaunted metrics by now should have signaled a clear reversal of some decisions. As it is, I don't think there will be any changes until they've justified DR enough from maybe restricting grinding to Argala for a year (a year of "good" metrics for DR, as it's the only grind spot viable and can be spun as "high player activity in the Delta Quadrant" instead of "players just grinding one spot").
More on-topic, the official forum is pretty self-cannibalizing; this thread being a good example.
Dev responds to a comment on some other forum, with enough proof he is who he is.
Players on the official forum get pissy he didn't copy-paste here when there was no reason to.
Players on the official forum starts a death spiral of blaming and drama.
Death spiral continues until the thread is either locked, or abandoned as pent up emotions are spent.
Rinse and repeat ad infinitum.
It seems fair.
Free Tibet!
You were able to understand that gibberish? I applaud you dear sir.
There is very little tangible evidence that our community managers are tasked with reporting anything back to the development team. From an external viewpoint, the lead Dev and executive management make decisions on the game direction (including features), bugs, and "addressing concerns" -- and the community managers aren't weighing heavily on that, imho. I don't see a back-and-forth taking place with the CMs as an intermediary.
Based on Cryptic's (and PWE/PWI's) management's directions, there's no need to have a community manager. Instead, we seem to have community-focused Communications Managers who posts occasional updates (as provided by their management) and run livestreams.
Devs, however, should be engaged with the community. Plenty of suggestions have been provided about how; those suggestions are falling on deaf ears (or closed eyes/minds). I've worked in Silicon Valley Fortune 100/500 companies for the past two decades; devs DO get engaged in online communities. That's a fact.
What Cryptic is suffering from: Lack of clear mandates in community/player-customer engagement.
Instead, we seem to have a small-company mentality where there's an ivory tower of decision-makers... and a clear disconnect with excellent player-customer interactivity. And devs need to be a part of that. Now.
And Cryptic needs to redefine the role of the Community Manager, too.
Or hire someone willing to step into the role and pro-actively make it into something bigger, more effective. But that would be rocking the management's boat...
And yes, every time someone mention the forum, in one way or another, he is downvoted AND trolled. Because redditor are holier than us, the low classes of STO.
And when they don't mention the forum, but are not positive with STO (even minor grievance), they are downvoted right away.
Still, some people are still giving their opinion. That's true.
Tell me, did you ever wondered why even the ultra positive reddit is becoming (your words) like the forum, with all the whining ? Perhaps a lot of people disagreed with cryptic recently ? I don't know, perhaps too obvious. Yeah, I guess that's just people becoming stupid or something.
Aaaand we're back to insults ... thanks for proving my point !
Saying everything is fine with the game is just as useless as saying everything about the game is terrible.
Free Tibet!
Just looking at his twitter followers shows that XD
I don't really care he didn't post it on here, it was a reply to a genuine Reddit question. The content of the reply however leaves a lot to be desired.
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
time for some Wii, take care
World of ******** allows players to get the best items in the game (if they are lucky) by doing the same "fleet action" over and over with a 168 hour cool down between attempts.
STO players complain about spending 30 dollars for a one-time purchase of the best ships in the game.
World of ******** players will spend 30 bucks to be allowed to log in over the next 60 days.
STO players can grind a reputation to the maximum for the first time on any toon in 40 days. any subsequent toons can do it in 20 days. It takes a single 15 minute space battle every-other day to get the turn-ins required for the rep daily. (10-20 STFs = Tier 5 rep)
World of ******** takes weeks of grinding 30 minute "fleet actions" to rep something up.
In STO you spend 1-3 days worth of dil to buy a console.
In Wow, you have to hope the "console" you want drops off a single specific boss. That boss can have a 24-168 hour cool-down before you can try again. There is no way to guarantee a drop.
In STO you can use a level 40 ship and level 50 weapons all the way to 60.
in WoW, your gear has to be within 2 levels of you, or you aren't allowed to do any "fleet actions" and enemies will be very hard to kill. Making it to max level with 10-20 level old gear is not advisable.
And to top it off:
If you subscribed to WoW since it released, bought each expansion pack and are active today, You have spent: $2060. Money spent if you subscribed since the day STO launched: $1160
STO: Lifetime sub (full price): $300 dollars. Delta Pack? $150. Romulus Pack? $150. Odyssey pack? 50 dollars. Dyson sphere mega-bundle? 75 dollars. Vesta bundle? 50 dollars. Intrepid pack? 55 dollars.
Total cost:
$830.
Current Zen Trade: 1Z=160D.
$830 in ships, and all the lifetime benefits, and another 33,000 zen to tie you over - netting you about 5.2 million dilithium.
SO there - if you really want to compare STO to other MMOs, and call STO "Pay to win" and you want to compare what you get for your dollar, consider you can own almost everything and still be paying less than others do for an MMO.
Also consider you like it because Star Trek and the only reason you complain about Dil is because you hate having to wait, and you resent not being willing/able to pay STO money to speed it up.
This is a business. They need you to want to spend money. They need players to feel their money is well spent and they are happy so they will spend again. If the game sucked so bad, how are they celebrating the 5 year event soon?
The vast majority of STO players enjoy the experience - the vocal minority of "angry but unwilling to move on" gamers congregate on online communities to circle-jerk their grievances.
Took some time ... but here you go :
Do you have numbers? If not, your entire post is meaningless.
Thankyou for playing Star Trek Online (tm)
Free Tibet!
Glad you showed us this prefab, your trolling
I like Al Rivera. He reminds me of people I've known and gotten along well with. I would buy Al Rivera a drink. I also feel like I could probably have a great one on one discussion with Al Rivera about game design theory, Star Trek, politics, society, and geek culture.
As Captain Geko, there are other, less positive associations for me. I know they're the same guy but I see Geko as a narrow sliver of who Al Rivera is. It's a corporate persona where he takes responsibility for decisions I sometimes strongly dislike as a consumer and this attempt at presenting a unified front for decisions he may or may not have signed off on or that may or may not have come from above (which he may have even resisted internally) grates and I'm not crazy about his relationship with the forums. And even then, the frustration with Geko, for me, boils down to a consumer relationship with a public persona. I think I could work with Al Rivera quite well if that ever happened but that it's hard for me as a consumer to have a dialogue with Geko, maybe in part because Geko seems like a guy it's hard for a consumer to have a dialogue with whereas I can easily picture Al Rivera being an okay guy to have a coffee with or be discussing theory in a room with a whiteboard with.
I think you can like Peter Parker and not always like Spider-man. And that doesn't necessarily change if you know his secret identity because he behaves and performs differently as Spider-man.
So if you're out there, Geko... I frequently, vocally disagree with the strategies you are the public face for at Cryptic but that does not equate to a personal dislike for you as a human, on my end at least.
If you rephrase the post in question into something resembling English i will be glad to give a proper reply.
there are a few issues as far as i can tell:
1. STO lead designer post on a 3rd party forum while he ignores Star trek Online's own forum
2. The post at reddit displayed a rather nasty 'Holier than thou" attitude. I'm usually pretty positive about STO and the development team and that attitude rubbed even ME the wrong way. Go figure.
3. A possible explanation, while not a valid excuse in my opinion, that Al "CaptainGeko" Rivera did not make that post here on the STO forum is that it would most likely go sour fast. Like throwing gasoline on a fire.
4. People here, I'm looking at you, start throwing insults around and then claim the ad hominem card.
No offence, but YOU were the one who started the hostile tone from my very first post in this topic. Stop blowing your own horn.
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I don't think that Mr Rivera is a mean person, I think he is just vrey bad at public relations. The typical nerd if you want. Buried in charts and sliders and buttons and loving it. Not a bad person, just under pressure and being uncomfortable in the spotlight.