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So, seriously. What does Cryptic plan to do about the upset core of their playerbase?

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  • flash525flash525 Member Posts: 5,441 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I doubt they'll do anything. They appear arrogant to the p[problems that exist, and the forums apparently seem to be run by dictators [see closed threads as of late]. Freedom of speech (and/or disapproval) is frowned upon; I guess they want newcomers to think everything is peachy when it's far from.

    I don't enjoy the game at the moment, I'll log in once a day to do the winter run and doff assignments, if I've got some spare time I'll run a couple of STF's, but Cryptic have sucked the enjoyment out of this game for me. The second my computer packs up, I'm done. STO is the only PC game I play (everything else is on a console) and STO isn't drawing me in no more. If/when my system calls it a day, I'll be doing the same with STO; it's a game that, thanks to the Devs (or PWE, or whoever) doesn't have enough of a draw for me anymore.

    I can almost guarantee Season #10 wont be any different either; it'll be another rep grind, another fleet project (more grind), a bunch of brand new bugs, and some content that people haven't asked for. :rolleyes:
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  • hylarrhylarr Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    The one thing that I haven't seen mentioned in this thread, even though some really valid points have been made, is that Cryptic isn't calling the shots anymore - Perfect World is. Game had it's issues before Cryptic was sold to PW but it was far better than what we have now and it's the reason I no longer spend ANY money on this game. I subbed for all but a year since the game was released because once you hit the old cap of Rear Admiral there was literally nothing to do (this was a few months after initial release).

    I came back a year later to find all these really good featured series episodes and lots more stuff to do and really was enjoying the game since I am a HUGE Star Trek fan and I even created some alts and got everyone to cap and geared. However, PW (NOT CRYPTIC) has slowly been turning this game into a super grindy Asian style MMO because that's what they do. It would have been like that from the beginning but STO was already up and running when PW bought Cryptic so they have had to do it slowly over time but if you look at Neverwinter it's even more grindy than this game has ever been and it's been like that from the beginning.

    All the changes for the bad that came along with DR was the last straw for me so bottom line is I hardly ever log on on my main character anymore and forget about those alts that I also love because they are never going to see any action again unless things start to go in a different direction than they are going now.

    I don't blame Cryptic I blame PW because their executives are the ones that ultimately make the decisions and Cryptic just has to go along because PW pays the salaries now.
    My main character is T'Les which was also my former forum name and I want it back! Hylarr is one of my alts.
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  • flash525flash525 Member Posts: 5,441 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    hylarr wrote: »
    [snip]

    I don't blame Cryptic I blame PW because their executives are the ones that ultimately make the decisions and Cryptic just has to go along because PW pays the salaries now.
    This might very well be the case, but then if it is, something needs to be done about it. If I had the money, I would genuinely buy Cryptic from PWE, and set the game on a new path, but I don't have the funds required to do that.

    Most people that play STO, I'd imagine them more to be Westerners; Europeans and Americans (and Canadians) though of course there are other people playing elsewhere in the world. We are not an Asian community, though we (as you've rightly stated) are playing a game that is within an Asian market.

    It may not be today, it might not be next week, it might not be six months time, but eventually the game is going to crumble because of that. Look at the state of how it's already doing; it's gone from bad to worse, and I don't see any positivity coming down the line. It's a mess right now (at least as far as I'm concerned) and someone (internally) needs to make a stand before it's too late.
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  • czertik123czertik123 Member Posts: 1,122 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    sad truth, cryptic is NOT interesed in making game better, they just want money from new players/content. Since it much more prfitable to relase bug hundet, poorly coded new content and fix mos blatant bugs after relase, than make better content in same time, but with more - and better - staff.
    I dont think it is ok, if bugs in this game are for over 3 yers, reported minimaly 1 per day. It is REALY bad when your pc, normaly which can run latest games in high-mid setting, and well in space combat game start lag and fps drop to realy low lvl. im REALY interesed what happend to game once most loayal - and spending - players leave game in disgust from lack of support to game.
  • flash525flash525 Member Posts: 5,441 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    czertik123 wrote: »
    sad truth, cryptic is NOT interesed in making game better, they just want money from new players/content.
    If word of mouth counts for anything, then they're going to fall short.

    I've been playing (and then grinding) this game since the launch of F2P, and in the early days did try to persuade friends to join, two of them in fact who I knew would have got involved and (dare I say it) spent actual money. At the time, one didn't have a working computer - at least one that was up to the task of running STO, and the other didn't have much free time.

    Back in October (or November) we went out, and this game came up in conversation (the one friend is getting a new system in the new year, and the other hasn't been as busy lately) and they asked me if I still recommended this to them. Suffice to say, I gave them enough reasons why they shouldn't even think about joining this, and should instead wait for the 40k MMO that's being worked on - they'd get more enjoyment out of that and can play it from the ground up.

    I like to think I've done my friends a huge favour.
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  • adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    What do I expect them to do? Upset their upset players even more.

    It's a shame they seem to be trying to kill the game, especially given the amount of money the Star Trek name alone brings in, not to mention the amount of money a well made player friendly game can make.
    ZiOfChe.png?1
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    starkaos wrote: »
    Maintenance mode is where the only changes to the game are bug fixes or nothing changes. There are plenty of MMOs that still exist and add content, but at a seriously reduced rate, but they are still not in Maintenance Mode.

    Personally, I feel that Upgrades and Specializations are steps in the right direction, but need some more work. Upgrades mean that we can keep our old favorite equipment and make it better so we don't have to toss it out unlike other MMOs. Specializations mean that we can continuously progress without reaching the level cap and stuck there until the next level cap comes around.

    Yes. All that matters are the details of the implementation, I think.
    • What about alts. Getting skill points for specialization takes a lot of time, and requiring the same amount even on alts can make alts feel pointless. The current time it takes is probably aimed to ensure the kind of levelling speed Cryptic wants for a single character player. Because that is in a way the "model" gamer - they can't assume people have tons of alts. But just as they did with reputations and the winter/summer ship unlocks, they may have to think about those with alts.
    • Are the dilithium payouts and costs reasoanble, or are there to many sinks? The upgrade system will compete with reputation gear, fleet star bases, Zen sales and crafting. Do some of the sinks need to get cheaper?
    • Special Task Forces and other Queued content: Are the completion rates good enough? Is there too much frustration? Do we need bigger payouts? (This is not even a new problem! Remember how empty most of the non-STF queues were before Delta Rising? Some Quieues just... sucked.)




    But this isn't the first level cap increase Cryptic created. There was a time purple Mark Xs were the endgame gear. And then suddenly it was Mark XII Purples. And then it was Fleet gear. Somewhere in between there were sets that were suddenly the non-plus ultra.

    Back when they were introduced, the cost and the time required was not so dissimilar to now. People may have complained back then, but they still stayed with the game till Delta Rising. Once again, many had acquired their endgame gear and spend a lot of Dilithium to get there. And once again, a level cap raise comes, and there is a new endgame gear.

    The ugprade system is much nicer than previous endgame gear increases. You can take what you already got and bring it up to speed. At your own pace. In a way, stuff that used to be "vendor trash" may no longer be, because if it doesn't have the right mark but the right mods, you can just upgrade it to Mark XIV. You have more natural in-between steps.

    Level Cap increases will come again. If you keep playing, and in a few months or years feel like you have most of your gear maxed out, be prepared for another one. Because unless you're especially fast, a lot of other people will be in a similar state, and that is the point an MMO will start considering a level cap increase.

    Yes, it is a hamster wheel. But that wheel is not just powering PWE - it powers the game and keeps it around, it is what will allow content expansions, bug fixes, new ships and all that.
    It is the cost of having a game with non-static content.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • jellico1jellico1 Member Posts: 2,719
    edited December 2014
    loadouts not working made me specialize ground and space toons

    differnt ships combinations / character classes encouraged me to make alts

    I didnt mind buying gear/traits /Boffs/Ships for these Alts

    But now with this gated levl 60 content and high leveling XP along with the cut in regular XP content
    2000xp normal content 7500 Argula patrol

    I no longer buy anything for my Alts its not worth the grind

    settled into a few main toons and it will stay that way

    Wallet closed is my protest
    Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
    Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
    Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng

    JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
  • js26568js26568 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    The upset people on the forums make Cryptic say "Only 3% of players use the forums"

    The people who support Cryptic on the forums no matter what are "Players who make a valuable contribution"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Free Tibet!
  • battykoda0battykoda0 Member Posts: 959 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Give you free lobi. Put something on sale. Pretend they don't hear you.
    Wow. There is a new KDF Science ship. I'll be!
  • drkfrontiersdrkfrontiers Member Posts: 2,477 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    vestereng wrote: »
    Pretty much sums it up doesn't it...

    Best expansion ever and the players love it!

    https://ufplanets.com/content.php?508-Interview-with-Stephen-Ricossa-Sr-Producer-for-Star-Trek-Online

    LOL - this interview must have occurred in some twisted twilight zone.
  • ikonn#1068 ikonn Member Posts: 1,450 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    They'll do like they did in the past... discounts and probably some giveaways. Then, while people thank Cryptic for being so generous, they'll polish up the nerf bat and begin to break off more of the game's original content to make room for more of these limited-time events and more grind.

    If we're lucky, they add in a "Finish Now" button.

    What is will cost to "Finish Now" is entirely up in the air though.
    -AoP- Warrior's Blood (KDF Armada) / -AoP- Qu' raD qulbo'Degh / -AoP- Project Phoenix
    Join Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010
  • vesterengvestereng Member Posts: 2,252 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Upgrading your ship, 1 ship, costs the same as 10x c-store t6 ships.

    That's the math you have to keep in mind when you wonder how the whales are still keeping them open for business.

    Then I believe everyone is underestimating how many people actually grind patrols or otherwise do as they are told.

    My belief is the game can't actually go under because it's star trek.

    Aslong as you sell - anything, say blank stats with zero animations for the price of 10 ships, whales will buy it.

    So the answer is they don't plan to do anything, neither should they.

    Why should they set themselves up to get less of your money? Read any thread anywhere and you will meet people who have no problem throwing 400$ a month and up at the game no matter what - and they are not even embarrassed to say it.
  • betayuyabetayuya Member Posts: 1,059 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    more inc. (no quality improvements noted)
    We will be performing shard maintenance on December 23rd from 7-9 AM Pacific (15:00-17:00 UTC). Please check the forums.

    Stability Update for the Holodeck server.

    because ... Everything Is Awesome!!! lol :D
    eywdK7c.jpg
  • sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 4,042 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Well just look at the latest patch notes, just a stability update, obviously to hopefully keep the servers up whilst they take yet another break from work (last one being the Thanksgiving holiday for a week).

    It looks to me like one of two scenarios are going on here:

    1. We are all wrong and the Devs have so much contradicting data to us that they can discount what we are saying and carry on regardless.

    2. The game is entering maintenance mode, all that will be offered are sales and events with very few bug fixes and no new content and certainly no change to the XP or other rewards.

    From my point of view number two seems to be already happening.

    In the meantime signature pictures are being removed if someone doesn't like them, threads are being closed if someone doesn't like them and the player base is being generally given the proverbial middle finger by anyone connected to the dear leadership.

    I tend to agree with you only I think the timetable is a little early. Originally I thought the crisis would come around January 20th but they can drag it out until after the anniversary event with a T6 ship for that. After that, the numbers are going to look very bleak. And I'm not sure there will be anything that can be done at that point to get lost players back. After all, we are talking 3 to 4 months of being away - most will have moved on completely by then.

    So with a playerbase 1/2 to 1/3 of what it was I doubt any more $$$ will be invested into new content. They may have already paid for some with the voyager cast so we will likely see a couple new episodes from that but then I think that will be it.

    I really don't know how long the game can survive in maintenance. It depends on how much PWE demands of the revenue.
    Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."

    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

  • betayuyabetayuya Member Posts: 1,059 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    even Oricon will still be awesome ... lol
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  • coupaholiccoupaholic Member Posts: 2,188 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Let me stop you RIGHT THERE.

    ^ THIS is the problem.

    Cryptic doesn't feel the need to address the issues in the forums, because the forum goers keep telling them "we're die-hard and we're not going away for any reason."

    They can increase the grinds. You won't go away.

    They can nerf your ships. You won't go away.

    They can nerf your characters. You won't go away.

    They put nice things in Vegas gambling boxes. You still buy those keys.

    They know they have you, and they know they won't lose you. Why in the world would you expect they would listen to you, much less adjust their money making machine in your favor?

    If you want them to feel the pain, if you want them to heed you, you have to be ready to close the wallet, give them a /rude and walk. It's the only thing they understand and care about. Money talks. You and all the other "die-hards that won't leave" have to leverage your wallet to do the talking. Put on the blinders, ignore the new shinys, ignore every little meaningless trinket and bribe they toss out and commit yourself to the course of changing the direction of this game through the ONLY means you have at your disposal.

    /end rant

    Agreed.

    Games or IP's are not precious things, they are products and products change. I keep harping on about this into the darkness but TRIBBLE it, it makes me feel better. Everyone needs to start treating games like products, and they need to be smarter consumers.

    Stop being fickle, stop buying into the hype and think about purchase decisions like you would any other product. It's amazing to me that some would do proper research for a new camera costing a few hundred in currency yet they can hop on here and waste it in no time buying pixels and keys.

    This is why every developer or publisher do what they do these days. Instant gratification games with no meat kicked out the door in buggy unplayable messes, lean back and let the hype and marketing do the selling for you. After a few months it's paid DLC, micro-transactions and blatant thievery. They know they get away with it so they do it.
  • coolheadalcoolheadal Member Posts: 1,253 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    For what it's worth, not much can be done. They run the game and everything about the way they want to run it. Fixing things will be done in time. Ship layout and Space Tray load-outs still drops items off. I have to save and wait for things to save. Then repeat it all day. Guess what? Items sill fall off and out of the trays. Ship Layout not safe either. Those has items in places where they shouldn't be.

    Content should be No.1 Priority then No. 2 should be fixes. But these fixes seem to be fast and not check to see if it's working. What works at the HQ doesn't mean going to work in a small town players home.

    Need to close the chapter on Delta Rising and bring back those who made the game fun and enjoyable. Seem those detail thinkers have left this company.

    Can you tell me why Romulan ships are slow. If you use non-Romulan Ship that too is slow too. Yet it uses Warp Core but in the Romulan ENG Room it's a Singularity Spinning in there. Reads Warbird

    Dyson Sphere those 3 T-Rex to take down can't even get to the other two if you take down one. Plus if you could make it to a second and shoot at it. You only get 5 DIL for doing so. Prior you got 720 DIL. Not even worth the bother run to get 5 DIL. Normally it's 90 DIL.

    Yes why is Nimbus 3 boss hits only 60 DIL. That planet could be a hunters haven! Add exchange booth where the bank is. How could you leave that out?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Time will only tell!
  • kavasekavase Member Posts: 771 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    coupaholic wrote: »
    This is why every developer or publisher do what they do these days. Instant gratification games with no meat kicked out the door in buggy unplayable messes, lean back and let the hype and marketing do the selling for you. After a few months it's paid DLC, micro-transactions and blatant thievery. They know they get away with it so they do it.

    I don't agree that EVERY developer and/or publisher does this, but, yes, many of them are doing it, with more on the way and it's a really bad trend for the gaming industry.

    But I do have hope. There was a publisher out there which rather recently, canned a project along with the developing team because the quality of game wasn't up to standard. The game will never be released.

    The response from the beta testers as well as others was rather interesting however. A good portion wanted the game to be released anyway, despite it's flaws or quality standard. Their thought was it's better to have a game then none at all. The publisher refused because the decision was final but also they felt that it would have done more harm than good to release it.

    I have hope that this is the trend we see instead.
    Retired. I'm now in search for that perfect space anomaly.
  • betayuyabetayuya Member Posts: 1,059 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    when all hope dies, the Dread Masters of Oricon welcome you with open arms lol
    eywdK7c.jpg
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  • carlosbflycarlosbfly Member Posts: 682 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    They know something is clearly up, otherwise Smirk wouldn't have created that thread asking for guidance on the graveyard we now call endgame queues. There is no doubt the metrics are majorly down. Look at the queues. If you are lucky, you can get three to pop now. Even the normally reliable Borg ones are dead barring Infected: Space.

    I'm surprised it has taken this long given all that. They really do seem to be ignoring it but can the game really be running to their liking with so little online activity?
  • bareelbareel Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Considering they are valuing metrics above all else.

    Considering their metrics in the past were unable to differentiate between players grinding exp on argala from those grinding in Japori using an exploit in the past.

    I currently have a 95%+ success rate in advanced and elite queues.
    - Metrics would indicate the PuG difficulty of those queues is spot on, if not too easy.
    - Reality is I don't bother with most of the queues.

    I currently spend less than 30 minutes of game time per spec point.
    - Metrics would indicate I am gaining them plenty fast enough.
    - Reality is I really only doff now.

    My playtime is also, at best, 1/5th of what it used to be.

    You can't fix something if you don't realize it is broken. I don't think they think (hehe) anything is broken.
  • eltatuseltatus Member Posts: 291 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    What does Cryptic plan to do about the upset core of their playerbase?


    Upset them more, LMFAO
    _________________________________________________

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • thutmosis85thutmosis85 Member Posts: 2,358 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    valoreah wrote: »
    Perhaps this is due to this thing called the "holidays"?

    If "Holidays" last from late October till late January ... then maybe ... I'm not talking about some puny costume sales ... "the Holidays" are actually quite "calm" compared to the last 3 months ...
    Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
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  • thutmosis85thutmosis85 Member Posts: 2,358 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    valoreah wrote: »
    Launch of DR to celebrate the second expansion through to the Winter Event which always ends in January. Yes, holidays.

    People complain there are no sales/events, and people complain when there are sales/events. And people are still dumbfounded why Cryptic dislikes engaging the community.

    Nodody was complaining, I was stating mere facts ... more Events, more incentive to play ... simple as that ...

    PS : DR Launch should have been Event, enough afaik ... yet they felt to need to put in Mirror Invasion soon after ... no MU was neither bad nor evil (Shotgun is pretty fun) ... but it strongely suggets, that DR might not have been "enough" ...
    Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    nyxadrill wrote: »
    I'm already in "maintenance mode".

    1. Login
    2. select 3 toons, race one, set off duty officer missions on the others.
    3. Log out.

    Next action:

    Load up game #1 and proceed to have fun for the rest of the night :D

    So many times you see "if you are burnt out, go play something else" or similar quoted on these forums. Well guess what, I have and I'm sure many others have too.

    To the OP, excellent post.


    This describes me 100% at the moment as well.

    With the difference that I select 2 chars, run the race and I can't even bother setting Doff missions anymore. Sometimes I start RD, sometimes I just can't be bothered anymore.
    Not sure if there is something that'll keep me logging in a few days when I complete the races and I'm doing even those because I had around 500 pics per char on 2 chars from last year. Having too much actual fun in the "other game" I subbed to and started playing this past month.
    HQroeLu.jpg
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