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So, seriously. What does Cryptic plan to do about the upset core of their playerbase?
azniadeet
Member Posts: 1,871 Arc User
Setting aside the memes and flames, it's pretty clear that there's a lot of upheaval among the core of Cryptic's playerbase.
Yes, we've heard it all- the forums are a small part of the overall player pool, but ultimately, we are the die hards. We are the players who aren't going away for no reason. If we take the time to post, we do so because we want to make this thing work.
Cryptic has done a lot of positive work on this game. Artistically and visually, things are looking very nice. The story content is fun and engaging through it's short bursts. Acquiring Trek voice talent is great. There's a lot to like here, and that's why we're still here. We post because we care. And yes- we're mad about some things too, and not universally constructive in that regard. I'll admit that. But it would be nice to hear concession from the devs about the points we raise, and a plan on how to deal with them.
As things stand, the gap between casual level content, and the rewards that allow players to level and gear up at a reasonable rate, is just too wide. I used to take extreme pleasure in bringing new recruits into elite STFs, and showing them the ropes, carrying them along so they can gear up, skill up, and improve. It was nice knowing that two or three skilled players can help to bring recruits along at a reasonable pace. This isn't possible anymore. Normal mode STFs are just too easy, and pay out too little; while Advanced STFs are too tough to get people up to speed. The road for new players is too steep. Endgame is the ultimate problem in STO right now... and it's not like the endgame is any more challenging (in a fun way), it's just become more tedius. The new advanced mode doesn't increase the danger of fighting the borg, it just increases the time it takes to fight the borg. Increasing HP only encourages the DPS race that divides the playerbase so much.
I hear it mentioned over and over that "15 minutes of play should equal X dilithium". This seems myopic. Not all 15 minutes are created equally. Skilled teams tackling tough content should be rewarded more reliably than they are. And the challenges should not be DPS-centric alone. We should be encouraged to use guile more than we are. Unfortunately, it's all an arms race.
Let's not avoid the 10 tonne Tarkalian Elephant in the room. Star Trek Online needs to be a profitable endeavor. That's cool. I want to continue to fund a game that produces great content. I'd shell out some cash to trade zen for dilithium, if I felt like I was making reasonable progress toward a goal... if I felt like I could take my new upgrades into battles that are new and interesting... but they're not around.
One thing we're seeing is the death of the PUG. I used to be able to hop in a queue and almost always find a team with a solid chance at a victory. That doesn't happen anymore. I find myself relegated to STFs exclusively with fleeties and trusted friends. That's not a good thing. I love my fleeties and friends, but I want to grow that circle. I want a chance to play with random people, tap potential, and find more players to tag along with. PUGing gives us that opportunity, and with the risks involved in the current STFs, nobody wants to do it anymore. The empty queues are not a bug. Can we admit that? Sure, maybe we're seeing shortages there because people are catching up on DR content... or now the Winter Wonderland... and maybe people are spending too much time trying helplessly to level alts. But they're not in the queues.
And that's the next problem. Alts. Alting is dead to me for the moment. I've hardly played an alt since DR was launched. I've filled up this bucket with my main, and it was arduous... even tedius at times. I'm ok hoeing that road with my main, but asking us to do it over and over... and in some cases over and over and over and over... is just too backbreaking. I used to spend money on all my alts. I'd be willing to spend more money on my alts... but not when I'm not seeing the gains.
So, that's where I am. The forum community is at complete odds with the devs as the cycle of rage and response equals fever pitch. Each action spins off a more drastic reaction from both sides. New players are enticed into a short stint through the game by the fantastic story content, but are afforded no reason to stick around, when the endgame content is too tedius for them to complete. In game costs are far exceeding payouts, leaving the player feeling hopelessly grasping for progress. Social circles are becoming more isolated and echo-chambery (probably not a word) as they are pushed to 'stick to their own ranks' to complete missions. Oh, and alting is all but dead.
It should be obvious that this community is not in a healthy place right now. I'm honestly trying to be constructive here and voice our concerns rationally. This isn't rage and this isn't flaming. I know and have interacted with devs who care about this game and about the art that STO can be. I just think it's important that you hear how we feel in a cool, respectful tone. Because maybe we're not doing that very well... but that cycle gets fed from both sides.
Yes, we've heard it all- the forums are a small part of the overall player pool, but ultimately, we are the die hards. We are the players who aren't going away for no reason. If we take the time to post, we do so because we want to make this thing work.
Cryptic has done a lot of positive work on this game. Artistically and visually, things are looking very nice. The story content is fun and engaging through it's short bursts. Acquiring Trek voice talent is great. There's a lot to like here, and that's why we're still here. We post because we care. And yes- we're mad about some things too, and not universally constructive in that regard. I'll admit that. But it would be nice to hear concession from the devs about the points we raise, and a plan on how to deal with them.
As things stand, the gap between casual level content, and the rewards that allow players to level and gear up at a reasonable rate, is just too wide. I used to take extreme pleasure in bringing new recruits into elite STFs, and showing them the ropes, carrying them along so they can gear up, skill up, and improve. It was nice knowing that two or three skilled players can help to bring recruits along at a reasonable pace. This isn't possible anymore. Normal mode STFs are just too easy, and pay out too little; while Advanced STFs are too tough to get people up to speed. The road for new players is too steep. Endgame is the ultimate problem in STO right now... and it's not like the endgame is any more challenging (in a fun way), it's just become more tedius. The new advanced mode doesn't increase the danger of fighting the borg, it just increases the time it takes to fight the borg. Increasing HP only encourages the DPS race that divides the playerbase so much.
I hear it mentioned over and over that "15 minutes of play should equal X dilithium". This seems myopic. Not all 15 minutes are created equally. Skilled teams tackling tough content should be rewarded more reliably than they are. And the challenges should not be DPS-centric alone. We should be encouraged to use guile more than we are. Unfortunately, it's all an arms race.
Let's not avoid the 10 tonne Tarkalian Elephant in the room. Star Trek Online needs to be a profitable endeavor. That's cool. I want to continue to fund a game that produces great content. I'd shell out some cash to trade zen for dilithium, if I felt like I was making reasonable progress toward a goal... if I felt like I could take my new upgrades into battles that are new and interesting... but they're not around.
One thing we're seeing is the death of the PUG. I used to be able to hop in a queue and almost always find a team with a solid chance at a victory. That doesn't happen anymore. I find myself relegated to STFs exclusively with fleeties and trusted friends. That's not a good thing. I love my fleeties and friends, but I want to grow that circle. I want a chance to play with random people, tap potential, and find more players to tag along with. PUGing gives us that opportunity, and with the risks involved in the current STFs, nobody wants to do it anymore. The empty queues are not a bug. Can we admit that? Sure, maybe we're seeing shortages there because people are catching up on DR content... or now the Winter Wonderland... and maybe people are spending too much time trying helplessly to level alts. But they're not in the queues.
And that's the next problem. Alts. Alting is dead to me for the moment. I've hardly played an alt since DR was launched. I've filled up this bucket with my main, and it was arduous... even tedius at times. I'm ok hoeing that road with my main, but asking us to do it over and over... and in some cases over and over and over and over... is just too backbreaking. I used to spend money on all my alts. I'd be willing to spend more money on my alts... but not when I'm not seeing the gains.
So, that's where I am. The forum community is at complete odds with the devs as the cycle of rage and response equals fever pitch. Each action spins off a more drastic reaction from both sides. New players are enticed into a short stint through the game by the fantastic story content, but are afforded no reason to stick around, when the endgame content is too tedius for them to complete. In game costs are far exceeding payouts, leaving the player feeling hopelessly grasping for progress. Social circles are becoming more isolated and echo-chambery (probably not a word) as they are pushed to 'stick to their own ranks' to complete missions. Oh, and alting is all but dead.
It should be obvious that this community is not in a healthy place right now. I'm honestly trying to be constructive here and voice our concerns rationally. This isn't rage and this isn't flaming. I know and have interacted with devs who care about this game and about the art that STO can be. I just think it's important that you hear how we feel in a cool, respectful tone. Because maybe we're not doing that very well... but that cycle gets fed from both sides.
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From what I'm gathering from Cryptic, cutting through the spin... DR was very profitable for them... lock boxes are very profitable for them... C-Store ships are very profitable for them... R&D with the R&D boxes are very profitable for them... so they couldn't care less about what your (or my) feelings are about STO.
And because they couldn't care less... they won't ever change it... and there are no plans in the works to fix what we say is broken, mainly because to fix a lot of this stuff would cost more money then they are willing to spend.
Basically it's better to earn 2 bucks a person and spend only 1 of it then to earn 2 bucks a person, spend 3 of it... then earn later down the road 5 bucks.
They're in it for the short term... and when the money dries up and they basically are only breaking even... they'll turn STO into Champions Online... a game that basically still runs but with minimal new content and fixes.
So basically... Cryptic will do nothing... because nothing is broken to them. Sure the game doesn't work and a very vocal minority (or even majority) is very unhappy with them, but they're making money and the game has run it's course. Game stops making money it'll just go onto autopilot and Cryptic is happy with that.
Well thought-out and constructive. OP, I applaud you.
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Pretty much sums it up doesn't it...
Best expansion ever and the players love it!
https://ufplanets.com/content.php?508-Interview-with-Stephen-Ricossa-Sr-Producer-for-Star-Trek-Online
Sadly I agree with this statement. I also believe there is an ever growing disconnect between the devs and the game/players. Just watch a livestream or two of a dev trying to play content in game. Unless they are really playing down their skills for the livestream, it's just painful to watch and think about what they can actually do in game without dev commands. (TL;DR = Do they truly know the state of the game from our perspective?)
Also communication from the devs to the players is at its lowest. The information deemed fit to pass along to us is scarce, for example check out anything regarding maintenance and unexpected server downtime. I would much rather have a dev tell me exactly why they are changing/nerfing/buffing/adjusting something, than not tell me anything at all and hope it goes unnoticed (which is incredibly slimy IMO), or trying some sort of slight-of-hand maneuver giving me some information with a fancy story to masquerade it. (TL;DR = Why can't they tell us what their vision is going forward and explain actions already taken in full? Why so much secrecy? We aren't the enemy, we're the paying customer!)
Finally, it's also really easy for opinions not in favor of the forum owners to be marked as flamming/trolling and therefore banned/deleted/closed.
Thing is, when the game stops making money, it is a bigger liability than an IP they developed. I'm sure the contracts with CBS will be the millstone around the neck of the game that will drag it down rather quickly once the game stops making money. Luckily, that same IP is what will keep some people spending $ longer than they would otherwise. This brings me to something I've been pondering:
Someone, back when there was an active post about PWE's quarterly report, referred to Cryptic/STO as perhaps being PWE's R&D division. That thought frightens me, fear both for me and for anyone with an investment in the company. If they are using this game to see how far they can push these heavily cash-drawing game mechanics before people leave, we're all in for a squeeze. Thing is, if this is what they are doing, are the folks over in the Chinese HQ aware exactly how the Star Trek subculture is going to make people hang on for an uncharacteristically long time? When they move this model onto other titles because it worked here, things are going to go to heck really quick!
The forums don't even represent the die-hards; not any more at least. Especially since lately, the forums simply became the place for a lot of ranting and raving, with the usual insults (though to be fair, some of them are entirely warranted).
And as far as secretive metrics go, they're clearly doing something right in their minds; despite all the "I quit" threads and refusals to spend, they're still charging on with their plans. If the situation was truly as dire as it was made out to be, there would have been a reversal sooner.
Thus far, the only thing to get reverted was the skill points that many lost regardless of whether or not they grinded Tau Dewa, as for whatever reason, it apparently made a big enough dent in their metrics to warrant it.
They did keep to their idea of balance though; Mk 13 and 14 were boosted some after seeing how many decided the cost did not justify the gains, and select queues had NPC scaling adjusted down some. It may not be to the level players wanted or expected, but it wasn't entirely ignored either. Same goes for XP adjustments; which in theory, was good, but in execution, fell short.
For now, thanks to the Winter Wonderland and free ships, the metrics will continue to remain stable, and even sample grouping from that infamous Steam ratings link supports it somewhat last I checked. And not long after it ends, the Anniversary event begins. And followed shortly after with the Summer event. All but guaranteed to stabilize their metrics the way the Winter event is currently doing, and giving them the possibility to outlast the more upset portion of the playerbase.
1. Delta Rising vs. LoR ... just look at what's supposed to be an Expansion these days ... we got 9 quality Story Episodes vs. 50 in LoR, 10 vs. 30 Ships etc, and the only thing that's not in LoR is some kind of "long term goal", where you have to repeat existing content ad infinitum ... sorry that's something you bring in when you know content is gonna dry out ... it's either that or they didn't know what they're doing ...
1a. Delta Rising vs. S9 ... even S9 had ~6 quality Episodes, including the Undine Story Arc - Revamp ...
2. Ever since Branflakes left, I get the feeling Community Management is getting worse every day, sloppy last-minute Copy & Paste Dev-Blogs without any useful Info etc ... it feels like they're just doing their job to do their job (of course it's in their rights do to so), but the passion is gone ... noone seems to actually "care" about their product anymore ...
2a. What happend to the "Foundry Spotlight" i.E. does anyone care anymore ... the last one was 1-2 months before DR, that's almost 6 months ago ...
3. We're getting flooded with Events these days ... to get the last dime out of people & keep them playing, just for the sake of them keeping playing ...
4. Removal of everything that "doesn't look good" (optimized for Maintenance Mode), instead of revamping it ... sure you might say, the
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10052253
Why are you not rejoicing?
I've said all that can be said here, and yes it feels like we've been shouting into the vacuum.
It's clear that the EP doesn't 'get' the game, let alone play it. He doesn't understand how a Fed ship can break 125K in an ISA (PriorityPodcast#200), and clearly doesn't understand the costs for the R&D process (5K dil to upgrade 1 item to XIII, or 2 hours of play time ?) WTF?.
Whew. Having said that there are those who are calling his misrepresentations as inaccurate. I'd love to see him in a Twitch broadcast showing us exactly how he came up with those numbers.
At the end of the day, several things are clear: STO is bleeding players, hardcore players are dropping $$$ to stay and compete, and the community is divided.
The content was great - agreed. The bluegill storyline - very cool. But the implementation of the games meta changes are complete and utter bovine digestive leavings.
My two Bits - and Merry Christmas. See you all soon.
Admiral Thrax
Honestly the biggest problem with the game is that the single player content does absolutely nothing to prepare people for how to run multiplayer and end-game level content. If the game were such that what weapons and skills you use didn't really matter it would be fine, but it's not like that. Some things are clearly and by far better than others. Some weapons, equipment and skills are just useless. Unfortunately the game itself does a TRIBBLE poor job of indicating that fact. So you get dumped into all this content that you're woefully unequipped to deal with and have no idea what you're doing wrong until someone points it out. Some people are receptive and learn what they need to do. Others decide to struggle and fall into the "muh playstyle" camp or insist on sticking with some sort of silly roleplaying fantasy that serves only to handicap them unnecessarily.
The answer isn't to stop running PUGs though. The answer is to run more PUGs on normal queues, take charge if you know what to do to win, and if you don't, follow the person that does. Make sure you get the optionals. This game is only as hard as the player makes it. The sooner people realize that and play to the strengths of their ships and stop trying to fix the weaknesses, the better off everyone will be.
Vice Admiral of - Starfleet Command -
The other game #1 is out. I don't think it's massive yet ut they will be adding to it.
The other game #2 the alpha commander <redacted> is out at least version 1.0
So, yes. Now we have some options and they are harping on some exploration.
I say the players should go to player 'maintenance mode' on STO then fully fund and support the other games.
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Let me stop you RIGHT THERE.
^ THIS is the problem.
Cryptic doesn't feel the need to address the issues in the forums, because the forum goers keep telling them "we're die-hard and we're not going away for any reason."
They can increase the grinds. You won't go away.
They can nerf your ships. You won't go away.
They can nerf your characters. You won't go away.
They put nice things in Vegas gambling boxes. You still buy those keys.
They know they have you, and they know they won't lose you. Why in the world would you expect they would listen to you, much less adjust their money making machine in your favor?
If you want them to feel the pain, if you want them to heed you, you have to be ready to close the wallet, give them a /rude and walk. It's the only thing they understand and care about. Money talks. You and all the other "die-hards that won't leave" have to leverage your wallet to do the talking. Put on the blinders, ignore the new shinys, ignore every little meaningless trinket and bribe they toss out and commit yourself to the course of changing the direction of this game through the ONLY means you have at your disposal.
/end rant
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
I gladly want to pay money. I've spent very little on STO since DR launched. There are better ways for them to get my money, and it starts with fixing the problems that the community is outlining.
If Cryptic is making a lot of money off of DR, I'm fairly confident that it's not from people like me. I'll stick around, but I'm going to be super casual going forward. Until I see some incentive to do otherwise again.
I haven't played STO in a good month or so because the game has simply become too much of a money pit. I found myself spending far too much of my scarce earnings buying C-points to convert to dil to upgrade my weapons. I found myself doing this because queues were dead. I found queues dead because even with a well-geared ship I had maybe a 30% chance of winning ASTFs given the makeup of most PUGs.
I'm not a hardcore DPS type - my ship is pretty solid but I'm mostly a casual player, and I expect to be able to put together at least a solid if not world-beating build by playing casually, as I could before DR. I don't need all gold gear to feel good about myself. What has kept me away from STO is the time and money investment. It takes longer now to get dilithium, and the amount I get is significantly less than before, and with the queues either dead or too difficult for most PUGs, even getting rep marks is a challenge.
I want to come back and enjoy Star Trek again. But I feel like there are no other options for casual players besides buying diller with real money, and I'm not eager to do that.
Actual join date: Open beta, 2009ish.
I am pretty much in that mode. I wish <redacted> had a linux client. Although the persistent is not there yet.
I like the fact when you get a mult-crew ship. It's a multi-crew playable ship. I also like the fact they come with lifetime insaurance. A small 4 player crew ship is around 250 and upwards.
The fun part is compared to the gambling loot box fest. They come out cheaper in the other game.
I agree a lot with what Azniadeet said as well. Who at Cryptic really sets down and says to us.... Look guys here is what we want to do and here is what this affects how can we come to a good arrangement about this? No one does. I mean it was sort of like that on Tribble at one point but that was a while back. Now days Tribble is used like a warning system for players more then a test server to helping the game develop along with the players. A lot of people who I know and have talked to about how the game is going are just fed up and Cryptic has done little to bridge the gap. We have all put good hard earned money into this game just to have everything you buy devalued in a few weeks or months. We have no input into any thing any more and the good things Cryptic does do are quickly over shadowed by the things they nerf or shadow nerf, take away, don't fix, ignore and simply just don't care to deal with.
I agree that as a company Cryptic needs to make capital to upgrade, update, and maintain its self and its corporation. Any one who knows what profit and loss statements are will tell you I can only lose this much and be ok. Cryptic in its total inaction on a multitude of things might find that its profits are going to start lowering to loss levels if they keep going in the current path. I know for my self I have pretty much stopped spending $$ on this game. I don't feel like I make any progress with 10$ or 100$. If I make an investment in this game I should at lest feel like I get my money's worth out of it and as of the last few months I don't feel that way at all. I know I don't have to buy any thing and all things in game are free if you work at it. But honestly if no one bought any thing the game its self would die. So for us who do spend our money and try and keep the game going we need to feel like it's worth it and Cryptic is not really making me feel like giving them any more money.
I know for my self and a lot of the people in my fleet and a few I talk to in Zone would not mind it if Cryptic didn't release any new content for a while and just started working on the games foundations. Clearing up the bugs and gliches a lot of us on Tribble and in Holo have reported over the years I think that would do a lot to further good relations and help the game go forward for many more years. Will it happen, most likely not. I don't think they would see the wisdom in such a thing. But we can hope right?
Maintenance mode is where the only changes to the game are bug fixes or nothing changes. There are plenty of MMOs that still exist and add content, but at a seriously reduced rate, but they are still not in Maintenance Mode.
Personally, I feel that Upgrades and Specializations are steps in the right direction, but need some more work. Upgrades mean that we can keep our old favorite equipment and make it better so we don't have to toss it out unlike other MMOs. Specializations mean that we can continuously progress without reaching the level cap and stuck there until the next level cap comes around.
So let's say, hypothetically, STO lost 20-25% of its players in the last two months. We might think that's terrible, but if that only returns the game to an average F2P turnover level, PWE may be perfectly happy as long as the revenues stay good.
But we don't have that information, and we never will, so it's just a pointless discussion.
You are so right here. I used to put 44 a month on average into the game, and I felt I was getting some really cool things in return. All my six characters have pretty powerful MkXII ships, but now I feel that money is not going to make a dent, and I have not put as much real life money into the game. If I progress I'll be happy to at my own speed, because there is no way I can invest that much money and time into progressing my characters all to MkXIV or epic.
^^ THIS is what more posts here should look like.
Well thought-out and constructive. OP, I applaud you.
... Too bad Cryptic will ignore it entirely.
if IT = players theny it will work
complaining unsetisfied players will leave in long termn if they dont liek the game and it is not getting better
I'm already in "maintenance mode".
1. Login
2. select 3 toons, race one, set off duty officer missions on the others.
3. Log out.
Next action:
Load up game #1 and proceed to have fun for the rest of the night
So many times you see "if you are burnt out, go play something else" or similar quoted on these forums. Well guess what, I have and I'm sure many others have too.
To the OP, excellent post.
you forgot restarting "R&" projects
250 what? Space dollars? GPL? I hope you don't mean any form of earth based money.
If that is the case. Have fun whale.