All those Objectives you're going on about usually need DPS to achieve them becuase they boil down to variations of killing stuff before x happens.
No, not all of them. The time limit isthere, but to avoid the nanite spheres to get to the generators is also something you can do with the powers like TBR or GW.
But what other "difficulty" ideas do you have? I could think of a lot of timing-related one - like, multiple party members need to do something at the same time. But do you expect that to work in PUGs? Coordination like that?
Be careful what you wish for.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
But what other "difficulty" ideas do you have? I could think of a lot of timing-related one - like, multiple party members need to do something at the same time. But do you expect that to work in PUGs? Coordination like that?
A good percentage of pugs can't even read if "Undine Infiltration" is any judge.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Most of the time it's not *horrible* but last night I think my team got deliberately trolled by someone who failed all of their questions on purpose. :-/
(Sorry for the aside. It annoyed me.)
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
A good percentage of pugs can't even read if "Undine Infiltration" is any judge.
Maybe they should block the Accept/Continue button for 30 seconds for the Infiltration questions, just so that people'S standard reflex of "click text away, where's the next thing to shoot" can be overcome?
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Again, it is a reasonable assumption that most non-Steam game users are like most Steam game users. Arguing they are different requires an affirmative defense.
I gave you a partial affirmative defense but unless you can argue that to be a substantial number, well... You can easily argue that they'd be less likely to leave but arguing they'd be more likely to join as new players (when even Cryptic has indicated that new players are not a driving force of DR's success) then you can't really argue a net increase.
There is a decline in Steam users.
A segment of players who do not use Steam must be represented by Steam users.
A segment of players who do not use Steam may be poorly represented by Steam users but are unlikely to be more likely to increase.
UNLESS
The Steam charts are in error.
AND/OR
Geko was lying and understating the success of the expansion in bringing in new players. Who would have to fall into the category of non-Steam users who are not represented by Steam users.
A statistical argument is going to have to start with the statistics and evidence we have available. Citing flaws in that evidence require an affirmative defense. Claiming that the decline may be less than estimated takes some reasonable argument. Claiming that there is no decline in users takes an extraordinarily high burden of evidence.
All you're saying is that you don't want to have a statistical argument because you are, personally, satisfied. In which case, you should stop reiterating your satisfaction and let people who want to look at the stats look at the stats.
The argumentative tack you've taken is a variation on science denial. The earth may not be experiencing global warming and the current consensus of evidence may be in error. However, until you can demonstrate how it is in error, a scientist (even an amateur scientist) goes with the evidence they have while acknowledging limitations. They don't presuppose what they cannot prove and then try to disprove a negative. That is an article of faith, not science.
Im so pleased I'm having a lucid day, otherwise I'd have been unable to follow this properly, which would have been a shame.. This is a great post!
No, not all of them. The time limit isthere, but to avoid the nanite spheres to get to the generators is also something you can do with the powers like TBR or GW.
So basically spam abilities over and over until the team blows the generator leaving the probes you have to destroy anyway so as not to have them TRIBBLE with the other generator destruction in likely greater numbers since they keep spawning and probably taking the rest of the day to finish it.
Or just uberDPS it and melt everything to do it in a reasonable time.
But what other "difficulty" ideas do you have?
How about none seeing as all that does it make the GRIND FOR STUFF MISSIONS more tedious seeing as you have to run these things over and over again.
You have been supremely praise-ful of Cryptic and their behaviors lately. That's no surprise. Meanwhile the vast majority of the playerbase is leaving in droves and has NO confidence whatsoever in Al's performance thus far. He has done nothing but tarnish the game several times over in rapid succession with his nonsense. The game is broken. The grind is extreme and unfulfilling.
Sadly, cryptic don't care. They cash their checks and run to the bank, never giving the actual product a second thought.
So that's why my views keep going down, no one cares.
HAHA
I have to laugh to keep from crying.
Looking for more info on Dilithium Rising? Click on the link below:
So basically spam abilities over and over until the team blows the generator leaving the probes you have to destroy anyway so as not to have them TRIBBLE with the other generator destruction in likely greater numbers since they keep spawning and probably taking the rest of the day to finish it.
Or just uberDPS it and melt everything to do it in a reasonable time.
How about none seeing as all that does it make the GRIND FOR STUFF MISSIONS more tedious seeing as you have to run these things over and over again.
Are you sarcasstic here or are you really serious?
Your real problem isn't that you find the difficulty artificial, but that you don't want difficulty at all?
I don't think that's the goal Cryptic - or many players - have for these kinds of events. If you don't want to beat difficult content, you don't need the items it rewards in the first place.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I get it. Your STO has changed. I'm trying to clear a spot for a little sunlight to sneak through. The Game and the Players have to settle in.
As has been mentioned, DPS is not the cure, for completing runs. Focusing on the Objectives, not the enemy completes runs. I don't want to list a bunch of strats in this thread, but there are ways to complete the Adv STF's with average DPS by focusing on the Details. Once the general player base learns the details of the fights, things will turn aruond. I see it happening already.
This may sound bad, but take it in the spirit in which I intend it. Abstract thought. If there are an equal number of players succeeding as there are those who feel otherwise, what should the game developers make of that?
There are a number of players who've stated cases like mine, I am not alone in this position. What will those guys think if the Dev's get fired and the new guys want to fufill all your wishes? What happens to the customers who are happy now?
Okay, I have read through this forum quite a bit and am sorta up to speed. Sorry to tell you this, but DPS is actually the answer. This hasn't changed with DR what has changed is the amount of damage needed to complete the objective. you keep saying things are objective based, but the objective is essentially kill everything before you fail.
Someone brought up Infected as an example about holding the spheres in place or repelling them. Why bother doing all of that extra nonsense when you should just be blowing the transformer out of the water? If there is nothing to heal then those spheres aren't actually gonna cause failure.
You've also said to rise to the challenge multiple times. The game isn't challenging, really its just really tedious, and to be honest not really worth the effort involved. Leveling for example should be do able from the missions alone, but isn't. Then to do that another 9 times? Then lets not forget outfitting each of those toons with gear to remain competitive.
The amount of work that i've put in to gearing my toons is pretty substantial, and believe it or not I was pretty excited about Delta Rising. Then I played on tribble.... The fact is even with the FREE dilithium over there the cost of upgrading is absurd, and I am in no way talking about the tech upgrades so please don't respond to me about that. The sheer amount of Dilithium we're talking about spending for XIV Epic gear is in the millions. I blew through over 4 million Dilithium in minutes and wasn't even done with my ship.
Lets also talk about the PvE queues. They're simply not worth doing in anything above normal i say this from experience. The headache is just not worth the rewards. Advanced is actually paying less than old elite did and it is supposed to be the same content At the time i was only really after the marks, as Dilithium wasn't an issue for me thanks to Jurassic Park. (though i hear this has changed recently) Just another tedious task to preform to get more gear.
Then there is the reputation system. That is specifically designed to make the content i JUST did to get the gear and rewards easier. Why does that help me in anyway, by the time i have the gear I am so sick of the content that I don't want to do it anymore. So i just stopped doing the reputations because I was sick of grinding just for the sake of grinding.
I used to suffer through the work for PvP, but that's was slowly dying (and from what I hear is actually )pretty dead now) The fact is the game has turned in to a full time job to remain competitive, and simply the pay (from virtually every source, and in every currency) isn't worth the effort anymore. So people are leaving. My story is much the same as I read multiple times in this thread alone. Fleet mates, and friends off to play other games. (which i know thanks to teamspeak)
So exactly what challenge am I rising to? Tedious PvE content that has changed except for damage output and hitpoints of my enemies? Leveling thats tedious and unenjoyable? Gaining gear thats only purpose is to make the content i just did easier? Or should it be raising the unimaginable funds that are required to upgrade all of my characters' gear to do content that doesn't pay for the effort involved?
I am not saying the game needs new management, but I am saying that the game has become more of a job than a game. It feels like I'm working when I play now, and I get enough of that in real life. I am sure i'm not alone judging by the forum I'm in.
My guess is "hope" keeps people not playing but posting on the forums. For others, its a path of sad realization and closure. Grieving takes time. The worst "haters" here love the game, or did at some point.
My guess is "hope" keeps people not playing but posting on the forums. For others, its a path of sad realization and closure. Grieving takes time. The worst "haters" here love the game, or did at some point.
My guess is "hope" keeps people not playing but posting on the forums. For others, its a path of sad realization and closure. Grieving takes time. The worst "haters" here love the game, or did at some point.
Everyone has an opinion that's valid. Here's mine.
I liked the new missions in DR. The story was enjoyable and has some replay value. (This helps for people with multiple toons like me.)
The amount of experience needed to take toons from levels 50-60 is insanely high. (This is discouraging for people with multiple toons.)
The new Intel ships are awesome but too powerful. They dominate everything in PvE and PvP. They make old favourite ships null and void. (Sure that must help sales for the new ships but surely it guts the sales for the older ones?)
Ship traits are too powerful. A ship with four ship traits is akin to having 3 commanders and 2 Lt Commanders on your ship.
Adding ship traits and so many specialisations is too much too soon. One system released with DR would have been fine. Both is too much. (This REALLY kicks the people with multiple toons in the gut.)
Upgrading items is awesome but too expensive. I've upgraded the gear on 2 ships and that's it. Until the cost is lowered I'll be fine with the rest of the gear on my toons staying exactly the way it is.
As for new management, yes. I say yes. I really believe that a fresh perspective can only help the game.
The amount of experience needed to take toons from levels 50-60 is insanely high. (This is discouraging for people with multiple toons.)
The new Intel ships are awesome but too powerful. They dominate everything in PvE and PvP. They make old favourite ships null and void. (Sure that must help sales for the new ships but surely it guts the sales for the older ones?)
Ship traits are too powerful. A ship with four ship traits is akin to having 3 commanders and 2 Lt Commanders on your ship.
Adding ship traits and so many specialisations is too much too soon. One system released with DR would have been fine. Both is too much. (This REALLY kicks the people with multiple toons in the gut.)
Upgrading items is awesome but too expensive. I've upgraded the gear on 2 ships and that's it. Until the cost is lowered I'll be fine with the rest of the gear on my toons staying exactly the way it is.
This is an accurate summary of the games issues at this point.
Things are too expensive, things take too long for how much they cost, and at the end of it all, you're too powerful for anybody playing catch up to compete with you.
Original Join Date: January 2010. Ragequit Date: January 7th 2012. Return Date: October 23rd 2014.
This is an accurate summary of the games issues at this point.
Things are too expensive, things take too long for how much they cost, and at the end of it all, you're too powerful for anybody playing catch up to compete with you.
Darn good thing I'm not competing with anyone then, isn't it?
Everyone has an opinion that's valid. Here's mine.
I liked the new missions in DR. The story was enjoyable and has some replay value. (This helps for people with multiple toons like me.)
The amount of experience needed to take toons from levels 50-60 is insanely high. (This is discouraging for people with multiple toons.)
The new Intel ships are awesome but too powerful. They dominate everything in PvE and PvP. They make old favourite ships null and void. (Sure that must help sales for the new ships but surely it guts the sales for the older ones?)
Ship traits are too powerful. A ship with four ship traits is akin to having 3 commanders and 2 Lt Commanders on your ship.
Adding ship traits and so many specialisations is too much too soon. One system released with DR would have been fine. Both is too much. (This REALLY kicks the people with multiple toons in the gut.)
Upgrading items is awesome but too expensive. I've upgraded the gear on 2 ships and that's it. Until the cost is lowered I'll be fine with the rest of the gear on my toons staying exactly the way it is.
As for new management, yes. I say yes. I really believe that a fresh perspective can only help the game.
I agree with you, for the most part. I do not think old ships are void, as they tend to have better BOFF arrangements than the new T6 counterparts (which seem to rely really heavily on Intel skills and seating, making traditional builds invalid on them), and they have 11 consoles now. These upsides to T5-U over T6 will probably be nullified once T6 Fleet comes out, but for now there are still plenty of reasons to fly your old T5s.
As far as starship traits, they are OP, but only because they are locked to factions. If they were account-wide, Cryptic would have another selling point on their hands, and a reason to level alts. But right now, Feds are in a much better position than Klinks (and a MUCH BETTER position than Roms, who don't even have one good trait) because their traits have synergy. I expect the traits will find their way into lockboxes sooner or later, which kind of solves the problem, but we don't know how expensive the traits will be.
Sardak (Science Officer): Captain of a 23k DPS R'Mor Temporal Science Vessel, R.R.W. Vathos Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
I haven't been too happy with most of the decisions to shake things up in Delta Rising, the grind in particular. That being said, the winter event is giving me a glimmer of hope.
The forums reacted the way you would expect when told you would have to grind out Tides of Ice ten times per character to get all the new shinies this year, the very vocally announced that they weren't having any of it. But rather than just gloss the whole thing over and go on to nerf other things to keep people occupied with rage elsewhere, they've listened and right now there's a patch on Tribble which changes that to ten times per account. First patch post-winter wonderland and it's a fix for the grind, I'd call that a step in the right direction.
If they keep building on this and let it build up momentum, then I'd call this a very good start to fixing DR's problems. If not, well, at least we got a little something out of it.
Admiral Katrina Tokareva - U.S.S. Cosmos, Yorktown-class Star Cruiser Admiral Dananra Lekall - R.R.W. Teverresh, Deihu-class Warbird General J'Kar son of K'tsulan - I.K.S. Dlahath, Vo'devwl-class Carrier
Here's what I see: There's still no incentive for me to pay Euro as the game has lost a significant amount of value for money.
My job means that I don't get to play the game 7 days/6 hours a day. In fact it [my job] means that sometimes I have to go away for a considerable amount of time and not play the game at all.
Before DR, I could drop 20 per month (plus the odd bonus every few months) and catch up pretty quick. After DR, not so much. Mainly because of this silly upgrade system. Silly because it is the only way to get decent MkXIII and XIV gear. Instead of using my 20 to buy keys and either open boxes or sell them (because there's something on the exchange I want), now I have to buy dil because I have to have dil to upgrade which is the only way to get decent gear.
I would also prefer not to have to join a fleet just to gear up so I can do the amount of dps required for advanced difficulty. I should be able to do advanced through practise (and to a lesser extent, gear) rather than join a fleet with good gear (that I then have to upgrade) just to make the dps targets required in a poor PUG. I know fleets are important (it's the only way cryptic can get you to emotionally invest in this game now). But they should not be a pre-requisite of advanced difficulty.
I'm one of those players that only play 1 game. I have no interest in being a full-time gamer. Cryptic have about a month or so before I move on to something else (this is not a "do this or else" comment, just a fact).
I want to spend my money on something that entertains me and that gives me value for money and I will do soon. It's up to cryptic whether I'll spend it on them or not.
Comments
What difference?
All those Objectives you're going on about usually need DPS to achieve them becuase they boil down to variations of killing stuff before x happens.
But what other "difficulty" ideas do you have? I could think of a lot of timing-related one - like, multiple party members need to do something at the same time. But do you expect that to work in PUGs? Coordination like that?
Be careful what you wish for.
A good percentage of pugs can't even read if "Undine Infiltration" is any judge.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
(Sorry for the aside. It annoyed me.)
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Maybe they should block the Accept/Continue button for 30 seconds for the Infiltration questions, just so that people'S standard reflex of "click text away, where's the next thing to shoot" can be overcome?
Im so pleased I'm having a lucid day, otherwise I'd have been unable to follow this properly, which would have been a shame.. This is a great post!
So basically spam abilities over and over until the team blows the generator leaving the probes you have to destroy anyway so as not to have them TRIBBLE with the other generator destruction in likely greater numbers since they keep spawning and probably taking the rest of the day to finish it.
Or just uberDPS it and melt everything to do it in a reasonable time.
How about none seeing as all that does it make the GRIND FOR STUFF MISSIONS more tedious seeing as you have to run these things over and over again.
So that's why my views keep going down, no one cares.
HAHA
I have to laugh to keep from crying.
[SIGPIC]Click here to visit my STO YouTube channel[/SIGPIC]
That would depend on his or her experience.
Your real problem isn't that you find the difficulty artificial, but that you don't want difficulty at all?
I don't think that's the goal Cryptic - or many players - have for these kinds of events. If you don't want to beat difficult content, you don't need the items it rewards in the first place.
Okay, I have read through this forum quite a bit and am sorta up to speed. Sorry to tell you this, but DPS is actually the answer. This hasn't changed with DR what has changed is the amount of damage needed to complete the objective. you keep saying things are objective based, but the objective is essentially kill everything before you fail.
Someone brought up Infected as an example about holding the spheres in place or repelling them. Why bother doing all of that extra nonsense when you should just be blowing the transformer out of the water? If there is nothing to heal then those spheres aren't actually gonna cause failure.
You've also said to rise to the challenge multiple times. The game isn't challenging, really its just really tedious, and to be honest not really worth the effort involved. Leveling for example should be do able from the missions alone, but isn't. Then to do that another 9 times? Then lets not forget outfitting each of those toons with gear to remain competitive.
The amount of work that i've put in to gearing my toons is pretty substantial, and believe it or not I was pretty excited about Delta Rising. Then I played on tribble.... The fact is even with the FREE dilithium over there the cost of upgrading is absurd, and I am in no way talking about the tech upgrades so please don't respond to me about that. The sheer amount of Dilithium we're talking about spending for XIV Epic gear is in the millions. I blew through over 4 million Dilithium in minutes and wasn't even done with my ship.
Lets also talk about the PvE queues. They're simply not worth doing in anything above normal i say this from experience. The headache is just not worth the rewards. Advanced is actually paying less than old elite did and it is supposed to be the same content At the time i was only really after the marks, as Dilithium wasn't an issue for me thanks to Jurassic Park. (though i hear this has changed recently) Just another tedious task to preform to get more gear.
Then there is the reputation system. That is specifically designed to make the content i JUST did to get the gear and rewards easier. Why does that help me in anyway, by the time i have the gear I am so sick of the content that I don't want to do it anymore. So i just stopped doing the reputations because I was sick of grinding just for the sake of grinding.
I used to suffer through the work for PvP, but that's was slowly dying (and from what I hear is actually )pretty dead now) The fact is the game has turned in to a full time job to remain competitive, and simply the pay (from virtually every source, and in every currency) isn't worth the effort anymore. So people are leaving. My story is much the same as I read multiple times in this thread alone. Fleet mates, and friends off to play other games. (which i know thanks to teamspeak)
So exactly what challenge am I rising to? Tedious PvE content that has changed except for damage output and hitpoints of my enemies? Leveling thats tedious and unenjoyable? Gaining gear thats only purpose is to make the content i just did easier? Or should it be raising the unimaginable funds that are required to upgrade all of my characters' gear to do content that doesn't pay for the effort involved?
I am not saying the game needs new management, but I am saying that the game has become more of a job than a game. It feels like I'm working when I play now, and I get enough of that in real life. I am sure i'm not alone judging by the forum I'm in.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1321541
Is that a promise ??
Please please let that be a promise !!!
... because you didn't believe me before when I told you before that your arguments were not convincing ...
Would you look at that....throw enough objective information at a troll and they go away.
I wish that worked on the rest of the internet.
My character Tsin'xing
Wasn't referring strictly to myself. I'm not quite that much of an egotist.
And actually yeah, that was objective proof that it all really does boil down to DPS, as opposed to some sort of objectives based strategy.
I liked the new missions in DR. The story was enjoyable and has some replay value. (This helps for people with multiple toons like me.)
The amount of experience needed to take toons from levels 50-60 is insanely high. (This is discouraging for people with multiple toons.)
The new Intel ships are awesome but too powerful. They dominate everything in PvE and PvP. They make old favourite ships null and void. (Sure that must help sales for the new ships but surely it guts the sales for the older ones?)
Ship traits are too powerful. A ship with four ship traits is akin to having 3 commanders and 2 Lt Commanders on your ship.
Adding ship traits and so many specialisations is too much too soon. One system released with DR would have been fine. Both is too much. (This REALLY kicks the people with multiple toons in the gut.)
Upgrading items is awesome but too expensive. I've upgraded the gear on 2 ships and that's it. Until the cost is lowered I'll be fine with the rest of the gear on my toons staying exactly the way it is.
As for new management, yes. I say yes. I really believe that a fresh perspective can only help the game.
In fact its always boiled down more DPS being the most effective strategy. I've know that since Atari was running the show.
This is an accurate summary of the games issues at this point.
Things are too expensive, things take too long for how much they cost, and at the end of it all, you're too powerful for anybody playing catch up to compete with you.
Almost called it.
I agree with you, for the most part. I do not think old ships are void, as they tend to have better BOFF arrangements than the new T6 counterparts (which seem to rely really heavily on Intel skills and seating, making traditional builds invalid on them), and they have 11 consoles now. These upsides to T5-U over T6 will probably be nullified once T6 Fleet comes out, but for now there are still plenty of reasons to fly your old T5s.
As far as starship traits, they are OP, but only because they are locked to factions. If they were account-wide, Cryptic would have another selling point on their hands, and a reason to level alts. But right now, Feds are in a much better position than Klinks (and a MUCH BETTER position than Roms, who don't even have one good trait) because their traits have synergy. I expect the traits will find their way into lockboxes sooner or later, which kind of solves the problem, but we don't know how expensive the traits will be.
Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler
Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
The forums reacted the way you would expect when told you would have to grind out Tides of Ice ten times per character to get all the new shinies this year, the very vocally announced that they weren't having any of it. But rather than just gloss the whole thing over and go on to nerf other things to keep people occupied with rage elsewhere, they've listened and right now there's a patch on Tribble which changes that to ten times per account. First patch post-winter wonderland and it's a fix for the grind, I'd call that a step in the right direction.
If they keep building on this and let it build up momentum, then I'd call this a very good start to fixing DR's problems. If not, well, at least we got a little something out of it.
Admiral Dananra Lekall - R.R.W. Teverresh, Deihu-class Warbird
General J'Kar son of K'tsulan - I.K.S. Dlahath, Vo'devwl-class Carrier
Here's what I see: There's still no incentive for me to pay Euro as the game has lost a significant amount of value for money.
My job means that I don't get to play the game 7 days/6 hours a day. In fact it [my job] means that sometimes I have to go away for a considerable amount of time and not play the game at all.
Before DR, I could drop 20 per month (plus the odd bonus every few months) and catch up pretty quick. After DR, not so much. Mainly because of this silly upgrade system. Silly because it is the only way to get decent MkXIII and XIV gear. Instead of using my 20 to buy keys and either open boxes or sell them (because there's something on the exchange I want), now I have to buy dil because I have to have dil to upgrade which is the only way to get decent gear.
I would also prefer not to have to join a fleet just to gear up so I can do the amount of dps required for advanced difficulty. I should be able to do advanced through practise (and to a lesser extent, gear) rather than join a fleet with good gear (that I then have to upgrade) just to make the dps targets required in a poor PUG. I know fleets are important (it's the only way cryptic can get you to emotionally invest in this game now). But they should not be a pre-requisite of advanced difficulty.
I'm one of those players that only play 1 game. I have no interest in being a full-time gamer. Cryptic have about a month or so before I move on to something else (this is not a "do this or else" comment, just a fact).
I want to spend my money on something that entertains me and that gives me value for money and I will do soon. It's up to cryptic whether I'll spend it on them or not.