you have no way of knowing how many of these steam users just switched to arc and uninstalled steam. I did that and I know others who did that.
That is the stat your missing.
There may have been a decline but that decline does not take into account what users did after they stopped playing STO on steam. Remember also that wallet thing on steam doesn't work very well and people making direct purchases of zen without using steam have a lot less hassle then those who do use steam.
And what about the other way around where more have installed steam? It's a stat that we are missing, but it doesn't exclude the fact that, if anything, steam usage should have increased over the recent years as you no longer can use a stand alone STO launcher(unless grandfathered in or some other wizardry)
Also, the decline we are referring to is in a span of less than 3 months, and it's quiet significant. Steam usage itself(as per the global chart) in less than 3 months, remains flat for the most part so there hasn't been any significant change there, why would it be exclusive to only STO?
Retired. I'm now in search for that perfect space anomaly.
you have no way of knowing how many of these steam users just switched to arc and uninstalled steam. I did that and I know others who did that.
That is the stat your missing.
There may have been a decline but that decline does not take into account what users did after they stopped playing STO on steam. Remember also that wallet thing on steam doesn't work very well and people making direct purchases of zen without using steam have a lot less hassle then those who do use steam.
Again, that requires an affirmative defense because we have no reason to suspect it is happening. What you are asking for is me to disprove a negative.
It isn't my job when interpreting data to prove that something couldn't be happening that contradicts the evidence.
It is the job of someone contradicting available evidence (however limited it may be) to prove that the evidence is imperfect and to what extent.
Without contradictory data, the data we have is what we go with. Disproving a conjecture is like asking someone to disprove a deity. It's outside the domain of scientific inquiry to disprove that something isn't happening.
Now look at something like the approximate breakdown of a Trek episode. How much time is spent on the ship, a planet, or showing space combat? What's the structure of a Trek episode? Generally an A plot and a B plot which merge to a single solution.
I recently re-read the STO preview in GameInformer (post-Perpetual, this was actually the Cryptic version) where they talked about how they had distilled every Trek show plot into a basic structure that was integrated into the procedurally generated content system.
That's right, apparently, the exploration missions were the best Trek they could do.
So, no matter how poorly they were done, the last vestige of an attempt to do real Trek in a non-scripted fashion is gone from the game anyway.
Side note, the ship customization in the alpha stages was way better than what we have now. A lot of the graphics look somewhat better as well to be honest.
That looked like such a cool game, I wish that's what we had gotten after all the "improvements".
My guess is "hope" keeps people not playing but posting on the forums. For others, its a path of sad realization and closure. Grieving takes time. The worst "haters" here love the game, or did at some point.
STO has dodged tropes. There is no, strictly speaking, lethal holodeck malfunction or transporter accident in STO.
Not strictly speaking, no. But there are references to such tropes, like Gein (who is one of my favorite characters in STO), and took the trope of the psychopathic killer hologram to a new level.
Transporter accidents are also references, such as the son of Thomas Riker. But you are correct as so far as to say it has never been a central plot hook in STO.
Junior security officers are never killed on an away mission alongside a captain to illustrate the danger of a threat or the burden of command
I'd disagree there. Security Team III (the red shirts) in my opinion are a very intentional Star Trek trope.
You very rarely bluff your way into advantage in space combat or engage in banter.
This is slowly changing, particularly in Delta Rising's space combat mechanics.
These are all things you would expect to see overflowing in a symbolic representation of Star Trek. I think Galaxy Quest hits all of them. I think STO manages to hit almost none of them.
One was also a one-time movie made in 1999, during the heyday when Star Trek was still culturally relevant. One is an on-going development of an MMO launched in 2010 and has thus far lasted for almost 4 years.
I would say the same thing about Bridge Commander, or even Klingon Academy. These were games made when Star Trek was culturally relevant and in vogue. STO is a game developed, in my personal opinion, to honor and respect Star Trek on how it was.
It makes no illusions that Star Trek is currently as popular as it was in the mid to late '90's. The difference between trope and cliche is that cliches are eye-rolling and boring. Tropes are things people enjoy.
I do not expect to get everything handed to me but I do expect to be able to get the stuff I need.... Which I am not atm. Get off ur high horse man, it's not looking good.
Let me tell ya a story that may help ya. I met a friend of mine on STO about 2 months ago while I was pvping random people on ESD. This guy was your "Average STO player" confident in there power at 9k dps, unable to do advanced let alone elite, and supremely confident they could beat me. I wiped him no contest (30K DPS that goes straight to the hull does that) and he wanted to know how i did it. So he joined the fleet I am in and after getting fleet gear, and getting help on runs for his reps, he has rep gear as well and even got some R&D consoles, as well as pointers on his DPS build from veteran STO players, his DPS has shot from 9k to 37K. Now he finds Advanced Laughable and elite just right for a decent challenge.
Get what im saying? Join a Fleet (LEARN SOMETHING) get some advice and get good gear and the rest falls into place. most of the less than 10k DPS players are either A.) not in a fleet or in a low level fleet or B.) super casual players who dont care about competetive endgame playing. So please not trying to be rude but dont whine about Mobs being too tough if you arent gonna try to get stronger.
Me? I get called names and specifically Troll, by you, and you want to blame me? Wow. Hypocracy at it's finest. Awesome. It matters not, but it is revealing about how you see things.
On point. The Games' Developers have plotted a couse to modernize the game and bring the NPC threat in line with player power, I say: Stay the course. The players that are slow to move will move. In a few months time they will again feel in control. This of course omly alowing for other topics for them to complain about.
I see things quite clearly. I see a thread that pushes for management revisions. I see you posting in said thread that people should just suck it up, the Devs should "stay the course" (which, by the way, has no direct link to PWE/Cryptic's poor management), and basically invoking people to argue against you and cause unrest. I see you derailing repeatedly despite orders to desist. And I see you still pushing for an opinion which still has no relevance to this thread.
Even your argument shows how the correlation between the Steam Numbers and reality is marked with unanswered question. All the questions you mention above are even more reason to assume the Steam numbers leave us in the dark.
To launch STO independantly of Arc, or any other launcher, only requires you to create a Shortcut to the STO Exe file on your hard drive. No wizardry required.
Good to see you are learning. regarding steam numbers: I agree, the numbers aren't a great indicator of the current number of players, since the metrics can be circumvented by Arc or by running the game via EXE, without Steam's assistance.
What we really need are the metrics from Cryptic themselves. I have no doubt they have the metrics. If they had nothing to hide, they would have released them already. Again, a sign of poor management - either they refuse to publicly admit that DR is a blunder, or they are ignorant of the community.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
It's not an opinion. PWE's stock did fall 22% and they lost 100,000+ players. Just a fact. Stop being lazy and look it up. I'm not doing it for you.
Since they didn't break the data down by individual games (and PWE also controls Runic Games; and Cryptic itself currently has 3 F2P MMOs 'Champions Online', 'NeverWinter' and Star Trek Online' - are you going to claim that everything was due to changes in STO? :eek:;)
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Even your argument shows how the correlation between the Steam Numbers and reality is marked with unanswered question. All the questions you mention above are even more reason to assume the Steam numbers leave us in the dark.
To launch STO independantly of Arc, or any other launcher, only requires you to create a Shortcut to the STO Exe file on your hard drive. No wizardry required.
And how many people know that and how many actually do that?
You're arguments are completely invalid because you have nothing to show for it counter the actual said statics we have available.
The steam chart will not provide hard numbers(total players playing STO)but is great use to show trends. The trend shows a decline in users after the first launch of DR on steam. This is what we have as a stat or fact. If you want to dismiss this because you think others have uninstalled and used arc instead or by other means, that's fine, but you'll need to counter that we another stat or fact, not just presumption.
Again, the 'global' steam chart usage has change very little in terms of usage with steam during and after DR launch, so why is this exclusive to STO only that people are uninstalling steam?
Retired. I'm now in search for that perfect space anomaly.
I definitely think a new DIRECTION for STO is needed, if not new personnel making design decisions.
Bring Fun(tm) back to the top of the game design priorities...let players choose their own adventure instead of engineering methods to get us to play the way metrics targets dictate
Reduce the suffocating focus on systems, numerics, and engineered playtime and mechanics
Design according to the users - most people run multiple characters and multiple ships
Default to expand horizontally (missions, sectors, NPCs, events), not vertically (xp changes, PC levels)
Remove Elite difficulty for most PvE events - it's confusing, spreads the queues too thin, and was applied too broadly and should only apply to a few events like Battle of Korfez offered in a single difficulty setting for big rewards
Upgrade system costs are just too high - again most people have multiple toons and multiple ships but people will only pay when they know they won't go bankrupt trying
Be much more respectful toward the player community (Al, I'm talking to you. On behalf of the playerbase, we're officially sick of your ****.)
Bidirectional feedback is critical. Looking at the numbers is a valid way to see what's going on but when you withdraw from the community and don't join in any discussions, constructive or otherwise, you seem out of touch and further alienate us.
Hire THIS guy. Make him Geko's boss. Every tim eGeko complains he can answer him the way he currently answers us. "I make this game, not you!"
Semi-official broad warning directed to no one in particular...
Knock off the flaming and trolling. I invite anyone who gets flamed or insulted from here on out to send me a PM.
On the other hand, don't send me a PM just because your feelings get hurt because someone doesn't like what you post. If it's not an infraction of the rules, I'm not touching it. People are still free to strongly disagree.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
And how many people know that and how many actually do that?
You're arguments are completely invalid because you have nothing to show for it counter the actual said statics we have available.
The steam chart will not provide hard numbers(total players playing STO)but is great use to show trends. The trend shows a decline in users after the first launch of DR on steam. This is what we have as a stat or fact. If you want to dismiss this because you think others have uninstalled and used arc instead or by other means, that's fine, but you'll need to counter that we another stat or fact, not just presumption.
Again, the 'global' steam chart usage has change very little in terms of usage with steam during and after DR launch, so why is this exclusive to STO only that people are uninstalling steam?
here's the real issue for Cryptic/PWE/PWI:
Honestly, they do not care how many players they have total - they care how much each player SPENDS on Zen. They are more then happy to shed what they consider non, or low-spending players, as long as the players they do have spend more on average (and the 'Whales' maintain their spending habits.) I believe Geko even stated in that last Podcast that yes, they didn't have as many players; BUT those they did have were spending more.
^^^
That's the sweet spot Cryptic/PWE/PWI wants to maintain as it keeps their hardware and bandwidth costs manageable but still maintains a level of cashflow/profit. That's something you can't determine by looking at Steam usage statistics - the amount of players spending real cash for Zen.
(And believe me, I'm not trying to defend the current state of STO as I too really dislike the direction the game is heading since Season 8 - design and monetization wise. That said, you have to realize that there is a 'sweet spot' for Cryptic/PWE/PWI when it comes to the whole hardware/Bandwidth cost VS per capita player spending in game; and as long as they're in that spot, PWE/PWI will be happy with the job Cryptic's doing for STO.)
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Semi-official broad warning directed to no one in particular...
Knock off the flaming and trolling. I invite anyone who gets flamed or insulted from here on out to send me a PM.
On the other hand, don't send me a PM just because your feelings get hurt because someone doesn't like what you post. If it's not an infraction of the rules, I'm not touching it. People are still free to strongly disagree.
Thanks. Good to know the mods are continuing to watch for inflammatory persons.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Since they didn't break the data down by individual games (and PWE also controls Runic Games; and Cryptic itself currently has 3 F2P MMOs 'Champions Online', 'NeverWinter' and Star Trek Online' - are you going to claim that everything was due to changes in STO? :eek:;)
This game could be the flagship game. I'm not sure. It's Star Trek... That title holds a lot of power, and it's not doing too good sadly. Anyway if PWE goes under STO goes under... The Management is poor across PWE as a whole. It's not just an STO problem. People tend to forget that.
I don't want to see STO ending up with a company like 'Electronic Arts'. I just want PWE to get their $#@* together before it's too late. I'm focused on the bigger picture here.
The dress is gold and white. Over 70% people says so. When viewed from a certain screen angle it appears blue and black. The dress displayed on amazon is a blue and black dress, but it's not the same dress in the picture. If you're seeing blue & black you're slightly colored blind. A normal upright screen = white and gold.
Honestly, they do not care how many players they have total - they care how much each player SPENDS on Zen. They are more then happy to shed what they consider non, or low-spending players, as long as the players they do have spend more on average (and the 'Whales' maintain their spending habits.) I believe Geko even stated in that last Podcast that yes, they didn't have as many players; BUT those they did have were spending more.
^^^
That's the sweet spot Cryptic/PWE/PWI wants to maintain as it keeps there hardware and bandwidth costs manageable but still maintains a level of cashflow/profit. That's something you can't determine by looking at Steam usage statistics - the amount of players spending real cash for Zen.
(And believe me, I not trying to defend the current state of STO as I too really dislike the direction the game is heading since Season 8 - design and monetization wise. That said, you have to realize that there is a 'sweet spot' for Cryptic/PWE/PWI when it comes to the whole hardware/Bandwidth cost VS per capita player spending in game; and as long as they're in that spot, PWE/PWI will be happy with the job Cryptic's doing for STO.)
If we're discussing managerial direction -- and I will concede most of your points, what is Cryptic doing to shield players who spend money from grind burnout?
Let's say I have $25-100 a month to spend on the game. Let's say I find spec point rate of gain demoralizing. What makes me more likely to stay or less likely to burnout than someone who spends nothing?
If there is no difference then absolute number of players DOES matter because they'll lose spenders in the same percentages to non-spenders, if spenders have no grind insulation.
Honestly, they do not care how many players they have total - they care how much each player SPENDS on Zen.
Exactly right. If even the population decreased a lot more but the spending per player increased to match, I'd assume they'd probably be perfectly fine with it.
*If* that's how they are looking at it, that's fine, but that's more of a short term gain they're playing.
Retired. I'm now in search for that perfect space anomaly.
Some people love abuse. Maybe DR will increase revenue by attracting masochists with deep pockets? Corporations do not fire executives based on customer complaints, they fire based on revenue (at least before our age of banker bailouts).
This game could be the flagship game. I'm not sure. It's Star Trek... That title holds a lot of power, and it's not doing too good sadly. Anyway if PWE goes under STO goes under... The Management is poor across PWE as a whole. It's not just an STO problem. People tend to forget that.
I don't want to see STO ending up with a company like 'Electronic Arts'. I just want PWE to get their $#@* together before it's too late. I'm focused on the bigger picture here.
Eh what happened is that they made clone games of popular ones so long that even with a brand that is bringing in the customers (and not that they make good games rofl) that they can't break the cycle of pay 20 bucks find out its a gimmick and customer quits playing. So to sum it all up they don't have plans on what to do if players actually stay around to keep them around.
Some people love abuse. Maybe DR will increase revenue by attracting masochists with deep pockets? Corporations do not fire executives based on customer complaints, they fire based on revenue (at least before our age of banker bailouts).
Quite right and it's sad to see how many people that QQ here on the forums also bought DR packs. People need to vote with their wallets, really only thing that matters.
Quite right and it's sad to see how many people that QQ here on the forums also bought DR packs. People need to vote with their wallets, really only thing that matters.
Hopefully this is a "fool me once" type of thing.
Ah, who am I kidding, people still pre-order from Ubisoft.
My guess is "hope" keeps people not playing but posting on the forums. For others, its a path of sad realization and closure. Grieving takes time. The worst "haters" here love the game, or did at some point.
I've been in STO since beta, and I've seen it progress and regress over years. Some changes have been pretty good, some have been really bad, and some have ended up being good after they've been changed.
Delta Rising was in my opinion one that was a horrible change that had so much potential, but I don't see them changing over time due to management decisiions, and I don't see that it's going to change.
However we've not hit the situation that was Atari bad yet. I actually left during the Atari years it got so bad, and PWE brought me back.
So I'm hopeful that PWE will see their mistakes and fix them in a few months and I'll come back and seriously play the game again. However as it stands right now, even with the Winter Event going on, I show up, DOff, R&D, run the race, run Winter Wonderland and leave for other games that I find more enjoyable.
STO is just not fun enough anymore for me to want to spend my money and my time on. But because it's STO I hold out hope that the next release or the next expansion PWE will realise it's mistakes and fix them.
Unfortunatly from what I can see, that's not the case and they keep adding in things I absolutly hate and taking away things I found enjoyable in the game.
Even with a particular contingent claiming that these changes are good, that they add "challenge", that they are THE GREATEST CHANGES EVER AND IF WE DON'T LOVE THEM WE ARE SELF-INFLATED NERDRAGERS, I still have hope that someday, somehow, we will get the Trek MMO we want, and not the one those guys deserve.
My guess is "hope" keeps people not playing but posting on the forums. For others, its a path of sad realization and closure. Grieving takes time. The worst "haters" here love the game, or did at some point.
I would also welcome some major management changes with this game. D'Angelo and Geko don't understand what the players want and need to be reassigned to some other game where players crave epic grinds and don't care about fun. Maybe ship them over to Candy Crush or Flappy Bird. :P
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I've been in STO since beta, and I've seen it progress and regress over years. Some changes have been pretty good, some have been really bad, and some have ended up being good after they've been changed.
Delta Rising was in my opinion one that was a horrible change that had so much potential, but I don't see them changing over time due to management decisiions, and I don't see that it's going to change.
However we've not hit the situation that was Atari bad yet. I actually left during the Atari years it got so bad, and PWE brought me back.
Been here that long as well. However, I would have to disagree. I think this Nerfdoom was the most horrible business plan Cryptic has ever made. At least during the Atari days...players were actually PLAYING. I remembered doing PvPs with no problems during the Atari days. I know NOT many PvP...however thats an indicator of many people were ON.
If PvPs were not that great at that time..yet still being run within 10-15 mins...now they are virtually DEAD. Other examples could follow with the former STFs or even with the old GROUND starbase 24....whatever you look in queues...there was no wait as in now...
No players in queus=No money for Cryptic....just a waiting game to see where this goes. :P
Well stoleviathan99, you were one such whales up until what - last month?
That's basically your answer right there.
Your scientific text book quoting aside, most of which I totally disagree with by the way, do we need to say more than, who has been paying them?
The game was in such a poor state during development in went under.
The developers were proud that they managed to not go bankrupt. Translate that to a unusual low level of ambition before the game was even out and you got the historical background for their mentality.
What happened next was whales coming in, people like you stoleviathan99, who then sat there and gave them money through 2½ years, until finally everything in the whole game was ruined, nerfed or straight up deleted remember the alamo and remember exploration.
So I mean sure let's talk about the fine points of petit bourgeois scientific critera text book parroting but you paid the road we on son.
For all them big words you throw around - thanks for using us as study hall by the way, and I don't doubt they give you A's in school for being obedient, loyal and docile but let's not forget you were no. 1 whale in STO paying them to nerf everything from day 1 up until now.
So awesome with the pie charts and everything, golf clap, but in the end it was just you and your money doing it all
/edit
ps. and I don't say that hating on you, I do it so you can understand what it takes to stop what is going on
Comments
And what about the other way around where more have installed steam? It's a stat that we are missing, but it doesn't exclude the fact that, if anything, steam usage should have increased over the recent years as you no longer can use a stand alone STO launcher(unless grandfathered in or some other wizardry)
Also, the decline we are referring to is in a span of less than 3 months, and it's quiet significant. Steam usage itself(as per the global chart) in less than 3 months, remains flat for the most part so there hasn't been any significant change there, why would it be exclusive to only STO?
Again, that requires an affirmative defense because we have no reason to suspect it is happening. What you are asking for is me to disprove a negative.
It isn't my job when interpreting data to prove that something couldn't be happening that contradicts the evidence.
It is the job of someone contradicting available evidence (however limited it may be) to prove that the evidence is imperfect and to what extent.
Without contradictory data, the data we have is what we go with. Disproving a conjecture is like asking someone to disprove a deity. It's outside the domain of scientific inquiry to disprove that something isn't happening.
I recently re-read the STO preview in GameInformer (post-Perpetual, this was actually the Cryptic version) where they talked about how they had distilled every Trek show plot into a basic structure that was integrated into the procedurally generated content system.
That's right, apparently, the exploration missions were the best Trek they could do.
So, no matter how poorly they were done, the last vestige of an attempt to do real Trek in a non-scripted fashion is gone from the game anyway.
Side note, the ship customization in the alpha stages was way better than what we have now. A lot of the graphics look somewhat better as well to be honest.
That looked like such a cool game, I wish that's what we had gotten after all the "improvements".
GG Cryptic.
Not strictly speaking, no. But there are references to such tropes, like Gein (who is one of my favorite characters in STO), and took the trope of the psychopathic killer hologram to a new level.
Transporter accidents are also references, such as the son of Thomas Riker. But you are correct as so far as to say it has never been a central plot hook in STO.
I'd disagree there. Security Team III (the red shirts) in my opinion are a very intentional Star Trek trope.
This is slowly changing, particularly in Delta Rising's space combat mechanics.
One was also a one-time movie made in 1999, during the heyday when Star Trek was still culturally relevant. One is an on-going development of an MMO launched in 2010 and has thus far lasted for almost 4 years.
I would say the same thing about Bridge Commander, or even Klingon Academy. These were games made when Star Trek was culturally relevant and in vogue. STO is a game developed, in my personal opinion, to honor and respect Star Trek on how it was.
It makes no illusions that Star Trek is currently as popular as it was in the mid to late '90's. The difference between trope and cliche is that cliches are eye-rolling and boring. Tropes are things people enjoy.
I enjoy Star Trek tropes. I enjoy STO's tropes.
Let me tell ya a story that may help ya. I met a friend of mine on STO about 2 months ago while I was pvping random people on ESD. This guy was your "Average STO player" confident in there power at 9k dps, unable to do advanced let alone elite, and supremely confident they could beat me. I wiped him no contest (30K DPS that goes straight to the hull does that) and he wanted to know how i did it. So he joined the fleet I am in and after getting fleet gear, and getting help on runs for his reps, he has rep gear as well and even got some R&D consoles, as well as pointers on his DPS build from veteran STO players, his DPS has shot from 9k to 37K. Now he finds Advanced Laughable and elite just right for a decent challenge.
Get what im saying? Join a Fleet (LEARN SOMETHING) get some advice and get good gear and the rest falls into place. most of the less than 10k DPS players are either A.) not in a fleet or in a low level fleet or B.) super casual players who dont care about competetive endgame playing. So please not trying to be rude but dont whine about Mobs being too tough if you arent gonna try to get stronger.
Just my 2 cents and the story is 100% true.
I see things quite clearly. I see a thread that pushes for management revisions. I see you posting in said thread that people should just suck it up, the Devs should "stay the course" (which, by the way, has no direct link to PWE/Cryptic's poor management), and basically invoking people to argue against you and cause unrest. I see you derailing repeatedly despite orders to desist. And I see you still pushing for an opinion which still has no relevance to this thread.
Good to see you are learning. regarding steam numbers: I agree, the numbers aren't a great indicator of the current number of players, since the metrics can be circumvented by Arc or by running the game via EXE, without Steam's assistance.
What we really need are the metrics from Cryptic themselves. I have no doubt they have the metrics. If they had nothing to hide, they would have released them already. Again, a sign of poor management - either they refuse to publicly admit that DR is a blunder, or they are ignorant of the community.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Since they didn't break the data down by individual games (and PWE also controls Runic Games; and Cryptic itself currently has 3 F2P MMOs 'Champions Online', 'NeverWinter' and Star Trek Online' - are you going to claim that everything was due to changes in STO? :eek:;)
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
And how many people know that and how many actually do that?
You're arguments are completely invalid because you have nothing to show for it counter the actual said statics we have available.
The steam chart will not provide hard numbers(total players playing STO)but is great use to show trends. The trend shows a decline in users after the first launch of DR on steam. This is what we have as a stat or fact. If you want to dismiss this because you think others have uninstalled and used arc instead or by other means, that's fine, but you'll need to counter that we another stat or fact, not just presumption.
Again, the 'global' steam chart usage has change very little in terms of usage with steam during and after DR launch, so why is this exclusive to STO only that people are uninstalling steam?
Hire THIS guy. Make him Geko's boss. Every tim eGeko complains he can answer him the way he currently answers us. "I make this game, not you!"
Knock off the flaming and trolling. I invite anyone who gets flamed or insulted from here on out to send me a PM.
On the other hand, don't send me a PM just because your feelings get hurt because someone doesn't like what you post. If it's not an infraction of the rules, I'm not touching it. People are still free to strongly disagree.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
here's the real issue for Cryptic/PWE/PWI:
Honestly, they do not care how many players they have total - they care how much each player SPENDS on Zen. They are more then happy to shed what they consider non, or low-spending players, as long as the players they do have spend more on average (and the 'Whales' maintain their spending habits.) I believe Geko even stated in that last Podcast that yes, they didn't have as many players; BUT those they did have were spending more.
^^^
That's the sweet spot Cryptic/PWE/PWI wants to maintain as it keeps their hardware and bandwidth costs manageable but still maintains a level of cashflow/profit. That's something you can't determine by looking at Steam usage statistics - the amount of players spending real cash for Zen.
(And believe me, I'm not trying to defend the current state of STO as I too really dislike the direction the game is heading since Season 8 - design and monetization wise. That said, you have to realize that there is a 'sweet spot' for Cryptic/PWE/PWI when it comes to the whole hardware/Bandwidth cost VS per capita player spending in game; and as long as they're in that spot, PWE/PWI will be happy with the job Cryptic's doing for STO.)
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Thanks. Good to know the mods are continuing to watch for inflammatory persons.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
This game could be the flagship game. I'm not sure. It's Star Trek... That title holds a lot of power, and it's not doing too good sadly. Anyway if PWE goes under STO goes under... The Management is poor across PWE as a whole. It's not just an STO problem. People tend to forget that.
I don't want to see STO ending up with a company like 'Electronic Arts'. I just want PWE to get their $#@* together before it's too late. I'm focused on the bigger picture here.
If we're discussing managerial direction -- and I will concede most of your points, what is Cryptic doing to shield players who spend money from grind burnout?
Let's say I have $25-100 a month to spend on the game. Let's say I find spec point rate of gain demoralizing. What makes me more likely to stay or less likely to burnout than someone who spends nothing?
If there is no difference then absolute number of players DOES matter because they'll lose spenders in the same percentages to non-spenders, if spenders have no grind insulation.
Exactly right. If even the population decreased a lot more but the spending per player increased to match, I'd assume they'd probably be perfectly fine with it.
*If* that's how they are looking at it, that's fine, but that's more of a short term gain they're playing.
Eh what happened is that they made clone games of popular ones so long that even with a brand that is bringing in the customers (and not that they make good games rofl) that they can't break the cycle of pay 20 bucks find out its a gimmick and customer quits playing. So to sum it all up they don't have plans on what to do if players actually stay around to keep them around.
Quite right and it's sad to see how many people that QQ here on the forums also bought DR packs. People need to vote with their wallets, really only thing that matters.
Hopefully this is a "fool me once" type of thing.
Ah, who am I kidding, people still pre-order from Ubisoft.
Delta Rising was in my opinion one that was a horrible change that had so much potential, but I don't see them changing over time due to management decisiions, and I don't see that it's going to change.
However we've not hit the situation that was Atari bad yet. I actually left during the Atari years it got so bad, and PWE brought me back.
So I'm hopeful that PWE will see their mistakes and fix them in a few months and I'll come back and seriously play the game again. However as it stands right now, even with the Winter Event going on, I show up, DOff, R&D, run the race, run Winter Wonderland and leave for other games that I find more enjoyable.
STO is just not fun enough anymore for me to want to spend my money and my time on. But because it's STO I hold out hope that the next release or the next expansion PWE will realise it's mistakes and fix them.
Unfortunatly from what I can see, that's not the case and they keep adding in things I absolutly hate and taking away things I found enjoyable in the game.
But I have hope.
So do I.
Even with a particular contingent claiming that these changes are good, that they add "challenge", that they are THE GREATEST CHANGES EVER AND IF WE DON'T LOVE THEM WE ARE SELF-INFLATED NERDRAGERS, I still have hope that someday, somehow, we will get the Trek MMO we want, and not the one those guys deserve.
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Been here that long as well. However, I would have to disagree. I think this Nerfdoom was the most horrible business plan Cryptic has ever made. At least during the Atari days...players were actually PLAYING. I remembered doing PvPs with no problems during the Atari days. I know NOT many PvP...however thats an indicator of many people were ON.
If PvPs were not that great at that time..yet still being run within 10-15 mins...now they are virtually DEAD. Other examples could follow with the former STFs or even with the old GROUND starbase 24....whatever you look in queues...there was no wait as in now...
No players in queus=No money for Cryptic....just a waiting game to see where this goes. :P
That's basically your answer right there.
Your scientific text book quoting aside, most of which I totally disagree with by the way, do we need to say more than, who has been paying them?
The game was in such a poor state during development in went under.
The developers were proud that they managed to not go bankrupt. Translate that to a unusual low level of ambition before the game was even out and you got the historical background for their mentality.
What happened next was whales coming in, people like you stoleviathan99, who then sat there and gave them money through 2½ years, until finally everything in the whole game was ruined, nerfed or straight up deleted remember the alamo and remember exploration.
So I mean sure let's talk about the fine points of petit bourgeois scientific critera text book parroting but you paid the road we on son.
For all them big words you throw around - thanks for using us as study hall by the way, and I don't doubt they give you A's in school for being obedient, loyal and docile but let's not forget you were no. 1 whale in STO paying them to nerf everything from day 1 up until now.
So awesome with the pie charts and everything, golf clap, but in the end it was just you and your money doing it all
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ps. and I don't say that hating on you, I do it so you can understand what it takes to stop what is going on