Cheese sales must be through the roof at this time of year, as all the whiners have been plentiful this season..
for me i have no probs with delta rising, i have enough to do now for the next year working my alts through all that needs to be done............
It's not an opinion. PWE's stock did fall 22% and they lost 100,000+ players. Just a fact. Stop being lazy and look it up. I'm not doing it for you.
PWE'S stock did fall based on the Quarterly Earnings report for the 3rd quarter. The one that doesn't contain Delta Rising's release. It barely contains its official announcement or the dev blogs! It definitely doesn't contain any "fallout" from the changes of Delta RIsing.
I have no idea where you got the player numbers. Can't be steam charts, beause the numbers there are not in the hundred thousands.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
It's just going to get worse. Waiting on 4th Q now.
The dress is gold and white. Over 70% people says so. When viewed from a certain screen angle it appears blue and black. The dress displayed on amazon is a blue and black dress, but it's not the same dress in the picture. If you're seeing blue & black you're slightly colored blind. A normal upright screen = white and gold.
Everyone knows you have zero Data. It's ok, your opinion carries just as much clout here on the Forums anyway. All of the whiners believe you. What else could you need?
The thread is about disscussing wether new managment is needed. Part of that is reducing and exposing, what I feel are, spurious conclusions.
When that other guy called me names, you didn;t even seem to notice. Mane Calling is surely is off topic. Can I attribute your notice of my posts to be due to my differening opinions?
And when were you "reducing and exposing" when you told people to "rise to the challenge"? I see no exposing of management there. In fact, I believe the appropriate term here is "apologist".
And while I realize the person you were responding to was also name-calling, to be fair, trolling a thread is fair justification to target you.
So I repeat again, if you wish to continue posting in this thread, stay on target. It's against the ToS to post material which "contain... posting of off-topic comments", or "post content which... are specifically made to create undue discontent on the forums, disturbances in forum threads, pick fights or otherwise promote unfriendly conversation."
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Simply put. The Devs who are making decisions for the game aren't doing their job right.
I suggest whoever's up top (PWE? Cryptic?) to apply pressure to the Devs to repair the damage caused by DR, or to change the command structure.
Because let's face it PWE, this strategy isn't working. If you want us to stay, give us motivation to stay, and in addition, hold your workers accountable for their actions.
EDIT: More specifically, CaptainGeko (Al Rivera), but certainly not limited to him.
Sadly, this will never happen.
People have to understand that the "company" Cryptic consists of a loose group of friends with no accountability other than the occasional "My Bad."
They have never had any management and probably never will.
Once these facts are clear, people can just give up all hope and take what comes.
Currently I believe they are being bullied by one aggressive dev into doing things his way however.
I don't know what will be the outcome of this latest Fail, but spines will need to be replicated for anyone to stand up to the Bully and this only happens in movies and TV shows.
The best hope is that the Bully gets sick of all the negativity and leaves. (like last time)
However without the spines, he will sure to be back. (like last time)
I suggest you guys who are calling for new management do your homework cause the guy who runs sto is a director in cryptic so that's not going to change any time soon...
PWE'S stock did fall based on the Quarterly Earnings report for the 3rd quarter. The one that doesn't contain Delta Rising's release. It barely contains its official announcement or the dev blogs! It definitely doesn't contain any "fallout" from the changes of Delta RIsing.
I have no idea where you got the player numbers. Can't be steam charts, beause the numbers there are not in the hundred thousands.
Take a statistics course and come back to me when you figure out what's wrong with what you said just now.
While he's off finding a textbook, I'll tell the rest of you: Polls and surveys, no matter what kind, never talk to 100% of those affected. That's basically impossible to do. The trick is to get enough data points that you have a statistically significant cross-sectional view of the demographic.
In this case, the demographic is "people who play STO". And the Steam numbers do present a statistically significant percentage, unless you're going to claim that STO has a total playerbase in the tens of millions (fairly certain The MMO That Shall Not Be Named topped out at about 12 million players, so that's extremely unlikely), ergo they're perfectly valid evidence.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
These threads never start well; then endings simply echo the inanity in which they begin. Can I have proof that people are leaving the game in "droves," and I mean real proof, not references to "I quit" threads or comments like "look at the queues."
There is a whiny minority on the forums. There always has been, and now they are more fired up than ever. I do not like all the changes that have come with DR. I probably won't be upgrading my best anytime soon, and I do not have the urge or desire to spend hundreds of thousands of dil on new shinies. That said, I still enjoy the game.
The first non-troll post I've seen from you. Not because I agree or disagree necessarily, because they're rare.
Delta Rising is the best expansion ever and the players love it! No, seriously! ...Why are you laughing so hard?
Weren't the pre-DR packs on sale within the 3rd quarter though? I apologize, I have forgotten.
They may have been, but while the packs may have been on sale, they do not represent clear data over the success (or unsuccess) with Delta Rising.
A closer comparison would be to treat Delta Rising packs sold in Q3 as pre-order data. It is another example of counting your chickens before they hatch.
I have said musch more than just "Rise to the Challenge". I have expressed my reasons for having the Devs "Stay the Course"
Going around about to call me a Troll certainly exposes you for being a hypocrite. My message is: Give it time. Learn the ins-&-outs like you did LoR. Soon everyone will be beating STF's and getting the items they desire.
All of this teeth gnashing is about a learning curve. Nothing more.
Yes, none of which is about management incompetency. If you wish to continue posting in this thread, please stick to the topic. Thank you.
And while I admit that I'm hypocritical and sometimes I do troll, you'll know when I do. My point still stands.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
All of this teeth gnashing is about a learning curve. Nothing more.
Are you a telepath? Betazoid or Reman, perhaps? Lethean?
Nope? Then you have no basis to claim that you know what the other people's concerns regarding the game are.
The chance of that happening is extremely slim to nill. You are saying let STO die for the chance or possibility of another Star Trek MMO that is somehow better over all.
This is quite likely the only Star Trek MMO we will ever see, if trends regarding the gaming industry and the tech bubble we are still experiencing are any indication.
The gamble you are wanting to make is one where the odds are not in your favor or any of our favors.
That is at least partially because MMOs as we think of them are on the way out. Conversely, it is also likely that almost every Star Trek game we ever see again will have online features if not online co-op.
Given overall trends, I'd expect maybe a MOBA next and maybe some sort of puzzle/rpg/shooter game with online features, which might include social zones.
The big thing I'd see STO being the last stand for, for the foreseeable future, is this style of space combat.
Are you a telepath? Betazoid or Reman, perhaps? Lethean?
Nope? Then you have no basis to claim that you know what the other people's concerns regarding the game are.
He could go and read through some of the other threads and find the posts that detail, in plain and polite English, what the issues we have are - which by the way, are by and large out of the sphere of what his talking points are.
But that would require work, and reading. I don't expect anyone on the internet to put forth that kind of work if they don't want to.
My guess is "hope" keeps people not playing but posting on the forums. For others, its a path of sad realization and closure. Grieving takes time. The worst "haters" here love the game, or did at some point.
Take a statistics course and come back to me when you figure out what's wrong with what you said just now.
While he's off finding a textbook, I'll tell the rest of you: Polls and surveys, no matter what kind, never talk to 100% of those affected. That's basically impossible to do. The trick is to get enough data points that you have a statistically significant cross-sectional view of the demographic.
In this case, the demographic is "people who play STO". And the Steam numbers do present a statistically significant percentage, unless you're going to claim that STO has a total playerbase in the tens of millions (fairly certain The MMO That Shall Not Be Named topped out at about 12 million players, so that's extremely unlikely), ergo they're perfectly valid evidence.
Playing devil's advocate, you might argue that Steam players are not random or fully representative.
For example:
Steam players who launch STO from Steam are probably far more likely to be multiple game users. Because of the Steam platform.
I have always understood that STO has an unusually high percentage of players who play ZERO other games or few other games. Meaning there is a behavioral bias.
I suspect Steam's charts are probably representative of the gamer contingent.
Not very representative of people who ONLY play Star Trek games or people who only play STO and have no desire to play other games.
That being the case, I'd suspect attrition is a bit lower than you suggest. Not so much that there is NO attrition (ie. the population would still be down). But not necessarily by the amount you propose.
I agree with the op done D'angelo took over we have been nerfed to no end. They took our rep away. Nerfed or dill a couple times m needed or ec . Like enough is enough I want my trips dill and ec back
That is at least partially because MMOs as we think of them are on the way out. Conversely, it is also likely that almost every Star Trek game we ever see again will have online features if not online co-op.
Given overall trends, I'd expect maybe a MOBA next and maybe some sort of puzzle/rpg/shooter game with online features, which might include social zones.
The big thing I'd see STO being the last stand for, for the foreseeable future, is this style of space combat.
It is a pretty big gamble to make, with millions and millions of dollars at stake. I'm not saying it could not happen, I am just saying that wishing death on STO (as opposed to perhaps being persistent with constructive feedback) is a fool's errand.
I like STO. I do not like all of the facets. I do not like all of the recent changes.
But it's still a game I believe Cryptic has gotten mostly right. And I would not wish death on this game for a snowball's chance in hell of a miracle Star Trek MMO that somehow results in everybody being happy.
Alien Domain for instance... a browser-based game. Star Trek doesn't exactly dazzle and amaze people as much as people on the forums (including me) sometimes wish it did. And not the kind of people with the raw financial capital to see STO as something they could do better.
My opinions are just a valid as all of the other posters here. Why do you assume the OP has any more insight than I do?
Oh yeah..... I forgot. You agree with that guy, and only people with differing opinions need evidence. I got ya.
If you intend to participate in a discussion without being called a troll, then you need to learn to read and pay attention.
The statement I replied to was the following:
All of this teeth gnashing is about a learning curve. Nothing more.
I have many issues with STO currently, none of which has anything to do with difficulty or the learning curve. But your arrogant statement quoted above prompted my reply to you.
That post had nothing to do with me agreeing or disagreeing with the OP, I didn't even mention him and I asked for no evidence so I have no idea where you pulled that one from.
I do however have problems when people like you want to put words in my mouth and claim to know and summarize what my issues are for me. In a single short arrogant statement.
Noting of the kind. Without the actuall player numbers for STO from Cryptic/PWE(I) any comment about player levels is conjecture. The best possible value for Steams numbers are measured against STeam player. So fewer players are using Steam to play STO is just as valid a conclusion as players are leaving STO because of DR.
Then there is still the connection of this data to DR to be considered. It will take more than what has been shown here, to conclude that DR is any worse shape, money wise, for Cryptic than it was before.
That's not true either. Steam's data is reliable to the extent that it is representative and it is at least substantially representative.
Same reason you don't need to ask every person who they're voting for to get an accurate poll. The issue is largely representativeness of the sample.
I think you'd need a hypothesis for what makes Steam's players different to challenge the representative quality of the sample.
I think what I pointed out (Steam users tend to be multi-game users) is fair but unless single game players account for a substantial majority of STO players and/or there were Star Trek fans new to STO (which I think if difficult given there's probably only a few million active Star Trek fans out there and STO has at one point or another engaged with almost every Trek fan it will engage with), well... I don't think there's much case to doubt the downward trend in players. The degree of the downward trend is up for some debate though.
Comments
The Stock should be fairly easy to check up on... Although, it is not a certainty that it IS or IS NOT as a result of anything done in STO.
As for the loss of 100K + Players: There is no way to verify this, as Cryptic and PWE dosen't release numbers to anyone.
for me i have no probs with delta rising, i have enough to do now for the next year working my alts through all that needs to be done............
PWE'S stock did fall based on the Quarterly Earnings report for the 3rd quarter. The one that doesn't contain Delta Rising's release. It barely contains its official announcement or the dev blogs! It definitely doesn't contain any "fallout" from the changes of Delta RIsing.
I have no idea where you got the player numbers. Can't be steam charts, beause the numbers there are not in the hundred thousands.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/11/26/perfect-worlds-q3-results-down/
It's just going to get worse. Waiting on 4th Q now.
https://www.google.ca/finance?cid=717303
Adjust start time date to November 08, 2014.
Now stop detracting from this thread and stay on target.
And when were you "reducing and exposing" when you told people to "rise to the challenge"? I see no exposing of management there. In fact, I believe the appropriate term here is "apologist".
And while I realize the person you were responding to was also name-calling, to be fair, trolling a thread is fair justification to target you.
So I repeat again, if you wish to continue posting in this thread, stay on target. It's against the ToS to post material which "contain... posting of off-topic comments", or "post content which... are specifically made to create undue discontent on the forums, disturbances in forum threads, pick fights or otherwise promote unfriendly conversation."
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Q3 ended on September 30th 2014. Delta Rising launched on October 14th 2014.
Losing players in China... Where STO isn't even available? (Yeah, that's how bad Delta Rising is!)
Were you talking about Perfect World and not about Star Trek Online?
Is this actually a shareholder meeting and not a customer meeting?
Sadly, this will never happen.
People have to understand that the "company" Cryptic consists of a loose group of friends with no accountability other than the occasional "My Bad."
They have never had any management and probably never will.
Once these facts are clear, people can just give up all hope and take what comes.
Currently I believe they are being bullied by one aggressive dev into doing things his way however.
I don't know what will be the outcome of this latest Fail, but spines will need to be replicated for anyone to stand up to the Bully and this only happens in movies and TV shows.
The best hope is that the Bully gets sick of all the negativity and leaves. (like last time)
However without the spines, he will sure to be back. (like last time)
Take a statistics course and come back to me when you figure out what's wrong with what you said just now.
While he's off finding a textbook, I'll tell the rest of you: Polls and surveys, no matter what kind, never talk to 100% of those affected. That's basically impossible to do. The trick is to get enough data points that you have a statistically significant cross-sectional view of the demographic.
In this case, the demographic is "people who play STO". And the Steam numbers do present a statistically significant percentage, unless you're going to claim that STO has a total playerbase in the tens of millions (fairly certain The MMO That Shall Not Be Named topped out at about 12 million players, so that's extremely unlikely), ergo they're perfectly valid evidence.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Weren't the pre-DR packs on sale within the 3rd quarter though? I apologize, I have forgotten.
The first non-troll post I've seen from you. Not because I agree or disagree necessarily, because they're rare.
They may have been, but while the packs may have been on sale, they do not represent clear data over the success (or unsuccess) with Delta Rising.
A closer comparison would be to treat Delta Rising packs sold in Q3 as pre-order data. It is another example of counting your chickens before they hatch.
Yes, none of which is about management incompetency. If you wish to continue posting in this thread, please stick to the topic. Thank you.
And while I admit that I'm hypocritical and sometimes I do troll, you'll know when I do. My point still stands.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Are you a telepath? Betazoid or Reman, perhaps? Lethean?
Nope? Then you have no basis to claim that you know what the other people's concerns regarding the game are.
That is at least partially because MMOs as we think of them are on the way out. Conversely, it is also likely that almost every Star Trek game we ever see again will have online features if not online co-op.
Given overall trends, I'd expect maybe a MOBA next and maybe some sort of puzzle/rpg/shooter game with online features, which might include social zones.
The big thing I'd see STO being the last stand for, for the foreseeable future, is this style of space combat.
He could go and read through some of the other threads and find the posts that detail, in plain and polite English, what the issues we have are - which by the way, are by and large out of the sphere of what his talking points are.
But that would require work, and reading. I don't expect anyone on the internet to put forth that kind of work if they don't want to.
Playing devil's advocate, you might argue that Steam players are not random or fully representative.
For example:
Steam players who launch STO from Steam are probably far more likely to be multiple game users. Because of the Steam platform.
I have always understood that STO has an unusually high percentage of players who play ZERO other games or few other games. Meaning there is a behavioral bias.
I suspect Steam's charts are probably representative of the gamer contingent.
Not very representative of people who ONLY play Star Trek games or people who only play STO and have no desire to play other games.
That being the case, I'd suspect attrition is a bit lower than you suggest. Not so much that there is NO attrition (ie. the population would still be down). But not necessarily by the amount you propose.
It is a pretty big gamble to make, with millions and millions of dollars at stake. I'm not saying it could not happen, I am just saying that wishing death on STO (as opposed to perhaps being persistent with constructive feedback) is a fool's errand.
I like STO. I do not like all of the facets. I do not like all of the recent changes.
But it's still a game I believe Cryptic has gotten mostly right. And I would not wish death on this game for a snowball's chance in hell of a miracle Star Trek MMO that somehow results in everybody being happy.
Alien Domain for instance... a browser-based game. Star Trek doesn't exactly dazzle and amaze people as much as people on the forums (including me) sometimes wish it did. And not the kind of people with the raw financial capital to see STO as something they could do better.
If you intend to participate in a discussion without being called a troll, then you need to learn to read and pay attention.
The statement I replied to was the following:
I have many issues with STO currently, none of which has anything to do with difficulty or the learning curve. But your arrogant statement quoted above prompted my reply to you.
That post had nothing to do with me agreeing or disagreeing with the OP, I didn't even mention him and I asked for no evidence so I have no idea where you pulled that one from.
I do however have problems when people like you want to put words in my mouth and claim to know and summarize what my issues are for me. In a single short arrogant statement.
That's not true either. Steam's data is reliable to the extent that it is representative and it is at least substantially representative.
Same reason you don't need to ask every person who they're voting for to get an accurate poll. The issue is largely representativeness of the sample.
I think you'd need a hypothesis for what makes Steam's players different to challenge the representative quality of the sample.
I think what I pointed out (Steam users tend to be multi-game users) is fair but unless single game players account for a substantial majority of STO players and/or there were Star Trek fans new to STO (which I think if difficult given there's probably only a few million active Star Trek fans out there and STO has at one point or another engaged with almost every Trek fan it will engage with), well... I don't think there's much case to doubt the downward trend in players. The degree of the downward trend is up for some debate though.