What do you want to achieve? Stop people from using Steam and "finally" have them all switch to ARC so they can actually use the stuff THEY BOUGHT FROM YOU to the fullest? At least that's my impression of the whole situation...
Thats exactly what they want but they are doing it wrong rather than giving people a reason to use ARC they are putting this fraud prevention in place. However I think a lot of peole will be causing Cryptic to lose money rather than gain money.
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Why couldn't a system be put in place, where you at least send the user an email, or some other source for authentication, letting them know that a purchase attempt has been made, and then at least have them verify that it's legit?
I have systems which actually provide real security, while allowing access to the rightful user, which work better than this. My normal card security works better than this, because it either blocks the initial purchase (not after Zen has already been purchased and cash exchanged...), or they reimburse if there is fraud. It's absolutely ridiculous that an account should be locked down for 10+ days (I'm at 6, going on 7), because an already established account and payment information, were considered "new", and therefore as bad as theft.
The other part I'm not understanding, is that customer service cannot reverse anything regarding this (their words). So in the event something actually is stolen or some type of fraud has occurred, what measure do they actually take to fix anything? It's almost as if we're protecting fake in-game currency, instead of the actual real-life potential for fraud...
On Thursday October 30, Star Trek Online enabled a new fraud prevention system. This system has been in place on another Cryptic game, Neverwinter, since July, where it has worked effectively. It has been enabled on STO due to increases in credit card fraud over the past several months.
What this new system does to protect all players is to temporarily change the way ZEN is treated by accounts that may be flagged for consideration in the new probation system. While we are introducing this system into STO, there is a chance that the rules may result in a false positive trigger but we have reduced the chance for that to the bare minimum. When purchasing ZEN, if an account is flagged, it puts the account into a temporary probation state for review by the system. New ZEN buyers and those with a limited purchase history may get temporarily flagged into the probation system. Once you have an established purchase history with us, the system is unlikely to trigger.
When on probation, Zen cannot be traded on the Dilithium Exchange to acquire Dilithium. Also, some purchases made in the C-Store may become bound-to-account instead of being tradable. You will get a warning dialog at the time of purchase letting you know that the purchase will be bound-to-account.
The bound-to-account status is contagious, so that if you open a Lock Box using a Master Key that has this status, everything from the Lock Box will also be bound-to-account in the same way. This contagious nature applies to anything you get from the C-Store that can be opened, and the purpose is to prevent fraudulent purchases from being traded off of the account.
The system is intended to have minimal impact on users who purchase for themselves. All purchases are bound-to-account, so you can still move the purchases between your own characters. This is only an inconvenience if you planned to purchase for later trading to other players.
If you receive the warning about a C-Store purchase being bound-to-account and do not wish to have bound items, cancel your purchase and try again the next day. The probation status is removed from your account once the financial transaction is confirmed, which can take up to 10 days. Any purchase you make after the probation status is cleared will not have the bound-to-account status added, and can be traded freely. Purchased items that become bound-to-account will permanently remain account bound, so you need to make this choice before purchasing.
Current and past users that have an established purchase history with us are less likely to have this ever trigger on their accounts so the majority of you should not see any difference when you purchase Zen and items.
Thank you for your continued support!
Aaron "Adamanteus" Biedma
Product Manager
Star Trek Online
WOW....It only took you guys a freaking month to say it, how about a word of advice....Next time tell the players before you TRIBBLE them over, and that way you won't loose paying customers like me...I said it before and i will say it again, good luck funding your next expansion because you will not get a dime from me.
WOW....It only took you guys a freaking month to say it, how about a word of advice....Next time tell the players before you TRIBBLE them over, and that way you won't loose paying customers like me...I said it before and i will say it again, good luck funding your next expansion because you will not get a dime from me.
A month? This post was made about 5 days after implementing the system.
Kurland Here Kurland Here This is Kurland Kurland Kurland Here Kurland, Do you copy?
This seems an awful lot like an attempt to punish the players who are still using Steam.
Again and again in this thread, and in other threads I am seeing that the people recieving this "flag" are Steam users, not those using ARC, and the PWE billing system directly. I myself use Steam and have been subject to this flag now. My credit card information has never changed significantly (my expiration dates have updated), but I have always used Steam, and will continue to do so. I will not be strong armed into leaving my preferred access method.
This seems an awful lot like an attempt to punish the players who are still using Steam.
Again and again in this thread, and in other threads I am seeing that the people recieving this "flag" are Steam users, not those using ARC, and the PWE billing system directly. I myself use Steam and have been subject to this flag now. My credit card information has never changed significantly (my expiration dates have updated), but I have always used Steam, and will continue to do so. I will not be strong armed into leaving my preferred access method.
The thing I find really 'funny' is that every time someone opens a thread about this somewhere on the forums, it's closed and they are directed to this thread. Even the OP directed someone here from another thread they'd created... But not one single Dev response to concerns over Steam purchases always flagging as suspect has been posted in this thread... They really are showing that they don't give a TRIBBLE.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
The thing I find really 'funny' is that every time someone opens a thread about this somewhere on the forums, it's closed and they are directed to this thread. Even the OP directed someone here from another thread they'd created... But not one single Dev response to concerns over Steam purchases always flagging as suspect has been posted in this thread... They really are showing that they don't give a TRIBBLE.
It's not that they don't care, it's that they are trying to force us to use their worthless, buggy, bloated ARC client.
Which nobody ever wanted to start with.
Which we warned them over and over was a bad idea.
Which they insisted on ramming down our throats, (or up our collective jacksie), anyhow.
And now they're all butthurt because nobody uses it, so they're trying to coerce us into doing so.
It's not that they don't care, it's that they are trying to force us to use their worthless, buggy, bloated ARC client.
Which nobody ever wanted to start with.
Which we warned them over and over was a bad idea.
Which they insisted on ramming down our throats, (or up our collective jacksie), anyhow.
And now they're all butthurt because nobody uses it, so they're trying to coerce us into doing so.
The only reason (and it's literally the only reason) I don't think this move in particular is an attempt at forcing people to use the Arc client, is that you can still purchase Zen through the website. That's the option I use simply because it's cheaper than Steam, though I still use Steam to play the game.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
The only reason (and it's literally the only reason) I don't think this move in particular is an attempt at forcing people to use the Arc client, is that you can still purchase Zen through the website. That's the option I use simply because it's cheaper than Steam, though I still use Steam to play the game.
It's only 'cheaper' if you get in lots of 5000 or more due to the bonuses. Usually the 10-30 dollar sets are identical, plus with Steam you can buy 500 zen levels which is nice if you just wanna get a service.
It's only 'cheaper' if you get in lots of 5000 or more due to the bonuses. Usually the 10-30 dollar sets are identical, plus with Steam you can buy 500 zen levels which is nice if you just wanna get a service.
I guess that comes down to location then. I can only speak for the UK, and all bundles are cheaper through the website than they are on Steam.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
As a Steam user, I will NOT be spending a dime on PWE games ever again. Not just because of this ridiculous (and potentially unlawful) system they put in place, but because I refuse to use their massively inferior "Arc" platform. I'm amazed they haven't removed the standard STO launcher yet, and made the Arc client mandatory. But I also know that such a requirement is coming, it's just a matter of time. Some might even say Soon.
And when it becomes a requirement to use Arc in order to launch the game, that will be the day I quit STO entirely, uninstall and delete any remnants of STO or other Cryptic/PWE related products from my harddrives.
Steam user.
Lifetime member.
Multiple purchases in the past.
Paid a sub back in the day before it was free to play.
Marked for fraud the last 3 times, and also did NOT receive a warning when I purchased my last purchase in this game.
Congratulations on losing a bunch of customers, since I informed my fleet and as we're a larger community with other games that work/don't flag irrationally/etc.... yeah.
I see a lot of different stories and reports here in this thread. What we need you to do is submit a ticket to customer service if you were placed on probation and you have previous purchases, the probation did not lift by day 10, you were placed on probation for a 2nd time after already being on it once, etc.
In your ticket, make sure to include the date/time of your purchase, where/how you made your purchase (i.e. Steam, Arc - Paypal, Arc - Moneybookers, etc.), and other pertinent information about your account/purchase.
We need to gather all of the different reports, sort through them, and check into the system to see what is actually happening. This system was put in place on Neverwinter several months ago and is working as intended so we need to narrow down if and what is occurring.
I see a lot of different stories and reports here in this thread. What we need you to do is submit a ticket to customer service if you were placed on probation and you have previous purchases, the probation did not lift by day 10, you were placed on probation for a 2nd time after already being on it once, etc.
In your ticket, make sure to include the date/time of your purchase, where/how you made your purchase (i.e. Steam, Arc - Paypal, Arc - Moneybookers, etc.), and other pertinent information about your account/purchase.
We need to gather all of the different reports, sort through them, and check into the system to see what is actually happening. This system was put in place on Neverwinter several months ago and is working as intended so we need to narrow down if and what is occurring.
I have submitted more than one ticket over this over the course of the past month and have always been told the same thing. That CS has no control over it, and that Steam purchases are automatically flagged. So why submit another ticket with the same information that will get a canned response because you don't converse with the CS team and they, clearly, don't converse with you?
I see a lot of different stories and reports here in this thread. What we need you to do is submit a ticket to customer service if you were placed on probation and you have previous purchases, the probation did not lift by day 10, you were placed on probation for a 2nd time after already being on it once, etc.
In your ticket, make sure to include the date/time of your purchase, where/how you made your purchase (i.e. Steam, Arc - Paypal, Arc - Moneybookers, etc.), and other pertinent information about your account/purchase.
We need to gather all of the different reports, sort through them, and check into the system to see what is actually happening. This system was put in place on Neverwinter several months ago and is working as intended so we need to narrow down if and what is occurring.
quick question, is that 10 business days or 10 24 hour periods irregardless of holidays and weekends?
I have submitted more than one ticket over this over the course of the past month and have always been told the same thing. That CS has no control over it, and that Steam purchases are automatically flagged. So why submit another ticket with the same information that will get a canned response because you don't converse with the CS team and they, clearly, don't converse with you?
Well, one could hope that they finally have communicated now, and sorted these things through.
Maybe as a bonus, you can put in the link to this post by pweadamanteus.
This system was put in place on Neverwinter several months ago and is working as intended so we need to narrow down if and what is occurring.
[
You're missing a "THERE" as in "It's working as intended THERE". Because it doesn't seem to be working as intended for STO.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
After you taking me money I have to sit in probation? Are you effin kidding me? Don't get me wrong I know more security is good thing, BUT upon purchase this was not made evident to me nor was I made aware of this UNTIL now.
ROFL...
If there is a probation system in this game I am pretty much going to be a 3rd striker... I just wonder what prison I will be sent to for my crimes against the federation.
Edit: Although since the bortasqu' incident where they let the small minority of people who care about federation pvp dictate how that ship was designed and haven't done enough imo for KDF development they have no worries about me even attempting to do anything that will get real money sent to buy something on my account roflmao.
So, I understood the probation system, I was fine with that, as I had no real intention of trading or selling anything. My biggest issue right now is the Lobi Crystals.. I now have two stacks of them, one with 17, and one with 30, and they won't merge. One of them is from my probation purchase.
I can't help but feel that perhaps, if there is any doubt on the legitimate nature of a purchase.. that instead of a probation system that screws up peoples inventories.. they should just freeze Zen Store purchases of that account entirely...
I purchased a C-Store ship for my friend and one for myself. Even though I informed the staff of this transaction and it's validity, they still placed my account on probation. Be careful if you have kids or friends you wish to help out, as Craptic will f*** you over.
I purchased a C-Store ship for my friend and one for myself. Even though I informed the staff of this transaction and it's validity, they still placed my account on probation. Be careful if you have kids or friends you wish to help out, as Craptic will f*** you over.
It is an automatic system. A Cryptic or PWE staff member does not choose who gets put on probation personally. There are warnings when you purchase the Zen itself to indicate if your account has been flagged for the probation system. Once the purchase clears the probation is lifted. However, any item you purchased during the probation waiting period will be bound to your account and that does not lift.
I purchased a C-Store ship for my friend and one for myself. Even though I informed the staff of this transaction and it's validity, they still placed my account on probation. Be careful if you have kids or friends you wish to help out, as Craptic will f*** you over.
This is why I don't spend any money on this game. Especially besides the fact that they reserve the right to alter what you buy at any time. They do things like DR where you are basically regrinding to upgrade your ships and gear that you already paid for. They used to boast they had such a broad vision for this game but its come to a regrind or revamp of whats in the game already. If they put me on this probation thing I most likely would uninstall.
However, any item you purchased during the probation waiting period will be bound to your account and that does not lift.
This is a problem then that needs to be changed. Because if I go to buy something for someone else, and the automated system flags me for probation, then the whole reason I went online to buy just became moot. Which means the only way to avoid such a nerf would be not buy at all.
I would think you would need to relook at that "feature" and try to change that result. Othwerwise why would I ever risk buying anything?
This is a problem then that needs to be changed. Because if I go to buy something for someone else, and the automated system flags me for probation, then the whole reason I went online to buy just became moot. Which means the only way to avoid such a nerf would be not buy at all.
I would think you would need to relook at that "feature" and try to change that result. Othwerwise why would I ever risk buying anything?
Actually, if you got put on probation (one time thing) you just need to wait until the probation period is over. At that point, you can use the Zen you bought to buy an item in the C-Store and give it to your friend (if it is not normally bound on purchase). It only permanently account binds the items you purchase in the C-Store during the probation period.
Actually, if you got put on probation (one time thing) you just need to wait until the probation period is over. At that point, you can use the Zen you bought to buy an item in the C-Store and give it to your friend (if it is not normally bound on purchase). It only permanently account binds the items you purchase in the C-Store during the probation period.
THe only problem with this is if its intended as a spur of the moment thing, such as 'oh its X's birthday tomorrow, let me get them <blah>' "oh probation, now their birthday is ruined, thanks alot'
THe only problem with this is if its intended as a spur of the moment thing, such as 'oh its X's birthday tomorrow, let me get them <blah>' "oh probation, now their birthday is ruined, thanks alot'
This will most likely only affect those that do not have an established purchase history prior to that purchase of Zen. This system is meant to combat the trends/patterns of fraud and protect legitimate users/players. It will initially catch some legitimate users but in the long run this protects their purchases, the economy of STO, and more.
This will most likely only affect those that do not have an established purchase history prior to that purchase of Zen. This system is meant to combat the trends/patterns of fraud and protect legitimate users/players. It will initially catch some legitimate users but in the long run this protects their purchases, the economy of STO, and more.
In my case, this probably means that I will always have to face probation. I am very infrequent and random in my purchase history. Such that there is no way that you can divine a trend or pattern.
And if I go on probation everytime I decide to purchase on a whim, well, that means I will not do purchases. I don't need the hassle.
In my case, this probably means that I will always have to face probation. I am very infrequent and random in my purchase history. Such that there is no way that you can divine a trend or pattern.
And if I go on probation everytime I decide to purchase on a whim, well, that means I will not do purchases. I don't need the hassle.
It takes into account your lifetime purchase history so, even if infrequent, once it deems you as established you are less likely to get on probation.
Comments
Cryptic should offer to unbind all the items for people who mistakenly bought Zen from them since this happened.
Thats exactly what they want but they are doing it wrong rather than giving people a reason to use ARC they are putting this fraud prevention in place. However I think a lot of peole will be causing Cryptic to lose money rather than gain money.
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I have systems which actually provide real security, while allowing access to the rightful user, which work better than this. My normal card security works better than this, because it either blocks the initial purchase (not after Zen has already been purchased and cash exchanged...), or they reimburse if there is fraud. It's absolutely ridiculous that an account should be locked down for 10+ days (I'm at 6, going on 7), because an already established account and payment information, were considered "new", and therefore as bad as theft.
The other part I'm not understanding, is that customer service cannot reverse anything regarding this (their words). So in the event something actually is stolen or some type of fraud has occurred, what measure do they actually take to fix anything? It's almost as if we're protecting fake in-game currency, instead of the actual real-life potential for fraud...
A month? This post was made about 5 days after implementing the system.
Again and again in this thread, and in other threads I am seeing that the people recieving this "flag" are Steam users, not those using ARC, and the PWE billing system directly. I myself use Steam and have been subject to this flag now. My credit card information has never changed significantly (my expiration dates have updated), but I have always used Steam, and will continue to do so. I will not be strong armed into leaving my preferred access method.
The thing I find really 'funny' is that every time someone opens a thread about this somewhere on the forums, it's closed and they are directed to this thread. Even the OP directed someone here from another thread they'd created... But not one single Dev response to concerns over Steam purchases always flagging as suspect has been posted in this thread... They really are showing that they don't give a TRIBBLE.
It's not that they don't care, it's that they are trying to force us to use their worthless, buggy, bloated ARC client.
Which nobody ever wanted to start with.
Which we warned them over and over was a bad idea.
Which they insisted on ramming down our throats, (or up our collective jacksie), anyhow.
And now they're all butthurt because nobody uses it, so they're trying to coerce us into doing so.
The only reason (and it's literally the only reason) I don't think this move in particular is an attempt at forcing people to use the Arc client, is that you can still purchase Zen through the website. That's the option I use simply because it's cheaper than Steam, though I still use Steam to play the game.
It's only 'cheaper' if you get in lots of 5000 or more due to the bonuses. Usually the 10-30 dollar sets are identical, plus with Steam you can buy 500 zen levels which is nice if you just wanna get a service.
I guess that comes down to location then. I can only speak for the UK, and all bundles are cheaper through the website than they are on Steam.
And when it becomes a requirement to use Arc in order to launch the game, that will be the day I quit STO entirely, uninstall and delete any remnants of STO or other Cryptic/PWE related products from my harddrives.
Lifetime member.
Multiple purchases in the past.
Paid a sub back in the day before it was free to play.
Marked for fraud the last 3 times, and also did NOT receive a warning when I purchased my last purchase in this game.
Congratulations on losing a bunch of customers, since I informed my fleet and as we're a larger community with other games that work/don't flag irrationally/etc.... yeah.
In your ticket, make sure to include the date/time of your purchase, where/how you made your purchase (i.e. Steam, Arc - Paypal, Arc - Moneybookers, etc.), and other pertinent information about your account/purchase.
We need to gather all of the different reports, sort through them, and check into the system to see what is actually happening. This system was put in place on Neverwinter several months ago and is working as intended so we need to narrow down if and what is occurring.
I have submitted more than one ticket over this over the course of the past month and have always been told the same thing. That CS has no control over it, and that Steam purchases are automatically flagged. So why submit another ticket with the same information that will get a canned response because you don't converse with the CS team and they, clearly, don't converse with you?
quick question, is that 10 business days or 10 24 hour periods irregardless of holidays and weekends?
Maybe as a bonus, you can put in the link to this post by pweadamanteus.
[
You're missing a "THERE" as in "It's working as intended THERE". Because it doesn't seem to be working as intended for STO.
A Romulan in Jayne's hat? That's awesome, well done.
Let us upgrade the Seleya Ceremonial Lirpa and Kri'stak Blade
ROFL...
If there is a probation system in this game I am pretty much going to be a 3rd striker... I just wonder what prison I will be sent to for my crimes against the federation.
Edit: Although since the bortasqu' incident where they let the small minority of people who care about federation pvp dictate how that ship was designed and haven't done enough imo for KDF development they have no worries about me even attempting to do anything that will get real money sent to buy something on my account roflmao.
I can't help but feel that perhaps, if there is any doubt on the legitimate nature of a purchase.. that instead of a probation system that screws up peoples inventories.. they should just freeze Zen Store purchases of that account entirely...
It is an automatic system. A Cryptic or PWE staff member does not choose who gets put on probation personally. There are warnings when you purchase the Zen itself to indicate if your account has been flagged for the probation system. Once the purchase clears the probation is lifted. However, any item you purchased during the probation waiting period will be bound to your account and that does not lift.
This is why I don't spend any money on this game. Especially besides the fact that they reserve the right to alter what you buy at any time. They do things like DR where you are basically regrinding to upgrade your ships and gear that you already paid for. They used to boast they had such a broad vision for this game but its come to a regrind or revamp of whats in the game already. If they put me on this probation thing I most likely would uninstall.
This is a problem then that needs to be changed. Because if I go to buy something for someone else, and the automated system flags me for probation, then the whole reason I went online to buy just became moot. Which means the only way to avoid such a nerf would be not buy at all.
I would think you would need to relook at that "feature" and try to change that result. Othwerwise why would I ever risk buying anything?
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
Actually, if you got put on probation (one time thing) you just need to wait until the probation period is over. At that point, you can use the Zen you bought to buy an item in the C-Store and give it to your friend (if it is not normally bound on purchase). It only permanently account binds the items you purchase in the C-Store during the probation period.
THe only problem with this is if its intended as a spur of the moment thing, such as 'oh its X's birthday tomorrow, let me get them <blah>' "oh probation, now their birthday is ruined, thanks alot'
This will most likely only affect those that do not have an established purchase history prior to that purchase of Zen. This system is meant to combat the trends/patterns of fraud and protect legitimate users/players. It will initially catch some legitimate users but in the long run this protects their purchases, the economy of STO, and more.
In my case, this probably means that I will always have to face probation. I am very infrequent and random in my purchase history. Such that there is no way that you can divine a trend or pattern.
And if I go on probation everytime I decide to purchase on a whim, well, that means I will not do purchases. I don't need the hassle.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
It takes into account your lifetime purchase history so, even if infrequent, once it deems you as established you are less likely to get on probation.