All this is due to the seriously flawed thinking at Cryptic - that the longer someone plays a game, the higher their average spending on it.
Actually, that is, by itself, a sound marketing principle. Naturally you have to offer variety, lest players leave prematurely. Letting peeps run 887 rounds of Argala ain't it. That only drives good people mad. Or, to paraphrase Einstein:
"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again... Period." :P
@shinra84: hilarious variation to the Bob sig. Love it!
Previously all replay missions rewarded 708 XP, they now reward 2030 XP
944 XP was the reward after finishing Argala, it is now 2730 XP, and if the tribble notes are to be believed this has doubled, but we shall see.
However the point you made is spot on and as most other people in this rapidly growing thread have pointed out the DEVs have are as disconnected as their new STF.
i could have sworn the replay content was 908 points heh
i edited my post to add that the replay content may have slightly different values due to me have a 3% bonus as was made clear by the fact your replays reward more than mine
you are right about being disconnected, this has never been truer in all the situations lately.
Good post OP (i bet if a dev would have to write that onto a Chalkboard he would suffer from RSI before he is half-done).
Beta, LTA, CE, Multiple preorder Versions, all Addon Packs except AoY, nearly all KDF/Rom and ~50% of all Fedships, over 25 LockboxShips, Endurer of Atari's "Year of Hell", but...
I definitely agree that the grind is tiresome, but I also find that if I don't have any goals the game won't be fun anymore.
What will be the next goal if you can get all your specs maxed out quickly? I'm not sure if I'd have tons of fun doing the same missions just for dil, ECs, etc. once I'm maxed out.
I definitely agree that the grind is tiresome, but I also find that if I don't have any goals the game won't be fun anymore.
What will be the next goal if you can get all your specs maxed out quickly? I'm not sure if I'd have tons of fun doing the same missions just for dil, ECs, etc. once I'm maxed out.
People have played for years with their skills & specs maxed out. I'm sure you have too, so that argument is blown completely out of the water.
If Cryptic uses your logic, all they have to do is make it 150000000000 points for 1 specialization point. You'd be perfectly happy with that, yes?
What will be the next goal if you can get all your specs maxed out quickly?
Well having (competitive) Alts would be one Thing ... at least 3 of them (FED, KDF, ROM) ... but that's something only players with STO as a full-time job can afford these days ...
There is also a difference between "Quick" & "a Life's Work" ... noone is asking for a "quick" way ...
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
I definitely agree that the grind is tiresome, but I also find that if I don't have any goals the game won't be fun anymore.
What will be the next goal if you can get all your specs maxed out quickly? I'm not sure if I'd have tons of fun doing the same missions just for dil, ECs, etc. once I'm maxed out.
Personally, with nine toons (and alts), I never ran out of stuff to do.
With each new season, there was the mission arc to play. Ideally they should play out differently for each of them and in some cases they did. Then there was the reputation system to get to Tier V for all nine main toons. Then, grinding any of the equipment that was useful, to see how it performed, and try out new and interesting build opportunities.
Then, between those times, there was socializing in places like Drozana, Quark's, and Risa. There was replaying old missions, helping new players with missions, occasionally playing an alt to check remember the tutorial. Outside the game, there were forum posts, STO wiki (wrote a couple of articles), and maintaining my ships on STO Academy.
Then there was Foundry missions to do on top of that.
Then, once all that was done, it would be about time for summer or winter events for a well-earned rest, dancing, games, and socializing.
Shame all that's gone now. Much of that is either broken, nerfed, or devoid of players. All that's left is monotonous grind in a few little "Five groups of five" patrols.
What I don't understand is why the PvE queues don't reward 5x more exp with the final reward than they do now?
It'd make sense in so many levels and it'd solve multiple problems at once.
Before the patch of last week roughly 50% of my exp came from doffing. After that patch things have slowed down so much that leveling up in Argala isn't even fun anymore (not that it was before, but at least you could level at a reasonable pace). As a result I pretty much stopped doing my Argala runs unless it's to test something new in my build. I'm still getting a lot of exp every day, but 80% - 95% of it comes from doffing. It seems like the only viable way to get good exp now is to search for the doff missions that offer the most exp.
I also have several alts, but the idea that I'll level any of them up beyond level 60 is just making me feel sick. It's too much of a grind to gain even just 1 level. I have 5 alts in total, I might be able to someday max intel out on one of them, but all the others are a lost cause. I'm just glad I'm not doing the advanced/ elite content on those alts, or it'd be a horrible grind.
I understand that the devs don't want the game to become too easy, neither do I, however, if I have to resort to just doffing to get a reasonable amount of exp out of my play time every day than something is really wrong.
OK then, I know let's play the queues....but wait, the queues are empty, it takes ages to for one to drop except one or two that people play for other rewards. Why are the queues dead? because people are playing Argala over and over to get skill points. There is only one set of people to blame here, that is the team that control this game.
...Are you seriously telling me that you can't find a bug hunt, crystaline catastrophe, borg STF, or azure nebula rescue?
There are a lot of low-population queues. Perhaps a few more than we had before (which is to say that we've generally had quite a lot of low-population queues. Its generally how the system works in any case, few things get played a lot and most of the variety is underutilized), but then again we do have new PVE's and (along with argala) a few other things that people can be spending their time with (such as a few occasional episodes and the kobali warzone.) However the point is that except in bizarre forum logic PVE's are still a viable means of playing the game.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
7,900,000 skill points needed to get from level 60 to level 110, effectively all the spec points, and even with your doubling of the patrol rewards, that still requires 887 Argala patrols on average PER TOON. Just to put that into perspective, this is what 887 Argala Patrols looks like:
-snip-
887 Patrols, per character.
Give us better XP for critter kills, give us better rewards for all the other content you have produced so we may play it, 2000 XP for a story mission is pathetic, they should offer 10-20K depending on the time it takes. Give us good rewards for every queue so that we can see the queues fill with people and watch the life flood back into the game.
DEVS WAKE UP!
You know there are other patrols, STF and foundry mission you can play right?
Besides, if you have fun and change what you play then the amount isn't that bad especially since most people focus on either ground or space and as such the last 15 specialization points are just a bonus and not a necessity.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
People have played for years with their skills & specs maxed out. I'm sure you have too, so that argument is blown completely out of the water.
If Cryptic uses your logic, all they have to do is make it 150000000000 points for 1 specialization point. You'd be perfectly happy with that, yes?
No, I wouldn't be happy with that and I definitely see your guys' points: there's gotta be more rewards during the grind. Like I said I find it tiresome too, but I'm just not sure what my goal will be once I'm done that grinding.
For now, I have to finish my crafting schools, then my Delta rep, which shouldn't be long.. after that it's just upgrades and I'll have to move onto something else.
And pretty much the only thing fun left leaving the rest to be a repetitive and boring grind.
The OP is just suggesting that those viable means to play the game would actually help you progress in a reasonable amount of time.
And frankly so do I.
Try the foundry. Lots of content there.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
No, I wouldn't be happy with that and I definitely see your guys' points: there's gotta be more rewards during the grind. Like I said I find it tiresome too, but I'm just not sure what my goal will be once I'm done that grinding.
For now, I have to finish my crafting schools, then my Delta rep, which shouldn't be long.. after that it's just upgrades and I'll have to move onto something else.
Before DR dropped my goal was tweaking my builds on all my alts, I was leveling up another one from scratch (stopped at level 30 when DR hit) and I was trying to decide which faction's ship to buy for myself out of November's income.
I understand that the devs don't want the game to become too easy, neither do I, however, if I have to resort to just doffing to get a reasonable amount of exp out of my play time every day than something is really wrong.
Let me tell you a story of Rainbow Six Vegas. It was a tactical shooter I played on the Xbox 360 (not the closest game to STO but it does have one notable parallel). In order to get to the maximum level, it tooks me two months of grinding from perhaps just 5 levels down. I could have applied a similar expectation for a level every day or so to that system, and become frustrated as hell wit hit, but I didn't and I enjoyed myself despite the slow XP.
So what the hell is stopping people from just aiming down a bit when it comes to specializations? I've found that the absolute best way to play for them [in STO] is not to pay too much attention to level progression post 60 and take it as an incidental bonus. If you play for it (ie. dedicate time explicitly to earning XP rather than XP plus dil, marks, equipment, ec, and so on in the normal course of gameplay), you will burn yourself out because by all appearances the system hasn't been balanced to support intensive grinding. Instead it apparently tries to reward consistent playtime over a longer period (you won't earn a level every day but with persistence you'll eventually get up there.)
So the problem should rather be stated that XP doesn't match [insert name here]'s expectations. And while that shouldn't be taken as [insert name here]'s expectations are automatically wrong, they should be mindful of the possibility (and approach spec's from a different direction if they find a significant enough disconnect.)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Comments
They'd call me an exploiter but at least now, a month and a half later, I wouldn't feel so screwed over by a video game.
Same here. When I heard what people were doing I thought "why are they doing that? Just play the game normally and have fun"
That worked out well for me...
Free Tibet!
Actually, that is, by itself, a sound marketing principle. Naturally you have to offer variety, lest players leave prematurely. Letting peeps run 887 rounds of Argala ain't it. That only drives good people mad. Or, to paraphrase Einstein:
"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again... Period." :P
@shinra84: hilarious variation to the Bob sig.
i could have sworn the replay content was 908 points heh
i edited my post to add that the replay content may have slightly different values due to me have a 3% bonus as was made clear by the fact your replays reward more than mine
you are right about being disconnected, this has never been truer in all the situations lately.
And they call the Borg Disconnected. :P
Pot, Cube, Black.
ROFL i am so quoting that in my sig.
/signed
You people are insane :P
:d
/120
why yes, yes we are insane
you will be assimilated, you will join us in the assimilation grind.
Am I spending money? No.
Free Tibet!
Who is Putz? The Putz that comes down from a wall?
Found him ... :P
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_P%C3%BCtz
Herzlisch willkommen zu unsera Hobbytheeek, isch hab da schon mal was vorbereitet
What will be the next goal if you can get all your specs maxed out quickly? I'm not sure if I'd have tons of fun doing the same missions just for dil, ECs, etc. once I'm maxed out.
People have played for years with their skills & specs maxed out. I'm sure you have too, so that argument is blown completely out of the water.
If Cryptic uses your logic, all they have to do is make it 150000000000 points for 1 specialization point. You'd be perfectly happy with that, yes?
Free Tibet!
Well having (competitive) Alts would be one Thing ... at least 3 of them (FED, KDF, ROM) ... but that's something only players with STO as a full-time job can afford these days ...
There is also a difference between "Quick" & "a Life's Work" ... noone is asking for a "quick" way ...
Personally, with nine toons (and alts), I never ran out of stuff to do.
With each new season, there was the mission arc to play. Ideally they should play out differently for each of them and in some cases they did. Then there was the reputation system to get to Tier V for all nine main toons. Then, grinding any of the equipment that was useful, to see how it performed, and try out new and interesting build opportunities.
Then, between those times, there was socializing in places like Drozana, Quark's, and Risa. There was replaying old missions, helping new players with missions, occasionally playing an alt to check remember the tutorial. Outside the game, there were forum posts, STO wiki (wrote a couple of articles), and maintaining my ships on STO Academy.
Then there was Foundry missions to do on top of that.
Then, once all that was done, it would be about time for summer or winter events for a well-earned rest, dancing, games, and socializing.
Shame all that's gone now. Much of that is either broken, nerfed, or devoid of players. All that's left is monotonous grind in a few little "Five groups of five" patrols.
It'd make sense in so many levels and it'd solve multiple problems at once.
Before the patch of last week roughly 50% of my exp came from doffing. After that patch things have slowed down so much that leveling up in Argala isn't even fun anymore (not that it was before, but at least you could level at a reasonable pace). As a result I pretty much stopped doing my Argala runs unless it's to test something new in my build. I'm still getting a lot of exp every day, but 80% - 95% of it comes from doffing. It seems like the only viable way to get good exp now is to search for the doff missions that offer the most exp.
I also have several alts, but the idea that I'll level any of them up beyond level 60 is just making me feel sick. It's too much of a grind to gain even just 1 level. I have 5 alts in total, I might be able to someday max intel out on one of them, but all the others are a lost cause. I'm just glad I'm not doing the advanced/ elite content on those alts, or it'd be a horrible grind.
I understand that the devs don't want the game to become too easy, neither do I, however, if I have to resort to just doffing to get a reasonable amount of exp out of my play time every day than something is really wrong.
...Are you seriously telling me that you can't find a bug hunt, crystaline catastrophe, borg STF, or azure nebula rescue?
There are a lot of low-population queues. Perhaps a few more than we had before (which is to say that we've generally had quite a lot of low-population queues. Its generally how the system works in any case, few things get played a lot and most of the variety is underutilized), but then again we do have new PVE's and (along with argala) a few other things that people can be spending their time with (such as a few occasional episodes and the kobali warzone.) However the point is that except in bizarre forum logic PVE's are still a viable means of playing the game.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
You know there are other patrols, STF and foundry mission you can play right?
Besides, if you have fun and change what you play then the amount isn't that bad especially since most people focus on either ground or space and as such the last 15 specialization points are just a bonus and not a necessity.
No, I wouldn't be happy with that and I definitely see your guys' points: there's gotta be more rewards during the grind. Like I said I find it tiresome too, but I'm just not sure what my goal will be once I'm done that grinding.
For now, I have to finish my crafting schools, then my Delta rep, which shouldn't be long.. after that it's just upgrades and I'll have to move onto something else.
And pretty much the only thing fun left leaving the rest to be a repetitive and boring grind.
The OP is just suggesting that those viable means to play the game would actually help you progress in a reasonable amount of time.
And frankly so do I.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Try the foundry. Lots of content there.
Before DR dropped my goal was tweaking my builds on all my alts, I was leveling up another one from scratch (stopped at level 30 when DR hit) and I was trying to decide which faction's ship to buy for myself out of November's income.
After DR I don't really have a goal.
Free Tibet!
Let me tell you a story of Rainbow Six Vegas. It was a tactical shooter I played on the Xbox 360 (not the closest game to STO but it does have one notable parallel). In order to get to the maximum level, it tooks me two months of grinding from perhaps just 5 levels down. I could have applied a similar expectation for a level every day or so to that system, and become frustrated as hell wit hit, but I didn't and I enjoyed myself despite the slow XP.
So what the hell is stopping people from just aiming down a bit when it comes to specializations? I've found that the absolute best way to play for them [in STO] is not to pay too much attention to level progression post 60 and take it as an incidental bonus. If you play for it (ie. dedicate time explicitly to earning XP rather than XP plus dil, marks, equipment, ec, and so on in the normal course of gameplay), you will burn yourself out because by all appearances the system hasn't been balanced to support intensive grinding. Instead it apparently tries to reward consistent playtime over a longer period (you won't earn a level every day but with persistence you'll eventually get up there.)
So the problem should rather be stated that XP doesn't match [insert name here]'s expectations. And while that shouldn't be taken as [insert name here]'s expectations are automatically wrong, they should be mindful of the possibility (and approach spec's from a different direction if they find a significant enough disconnect.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
That's usually when the next Rep arrives ... + Event Grinds ... etc ... pretty sure they're not gonna stop it now ...