DEVS thanks for doubling the Patrol rewards but...

mattjohnsonva

7,900,000 skill points needed to get from level 60 to level 110, effectively all the spec points, and even with your doubling of the patrol rewards, that still requires 887 Argala patrols on average PER TOON. Just to put that into perspective, this is what 887 Argala Patrols looks like:

Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - 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Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol -Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - Argala Patrol - 887

887 Patrols, per character.

Give us better XP for critter kills, give us better rewards for all the other content you have produced so we may play it, 2000 XP for a story mission is pathetic, they should offer 10-20K depending on the time it takes. Give us good rewards for every queue so that we can see the queues fill with people and watch the life flood back into the game.

DEVS WAKE UP!

peterconnorfirst

The OP is right oh dear Cryptic.

I like the game and I don’t even have a prob with the number 887.

But does it only have to be Argala? You have such a cool queue list. Fill with people!

887 queued participations to max out spec tree. I could live with that. Why cant you?

a3001

*faints at the sight of the great wall of text*

mustrumridcully0

Not shown in the depiction:

• How much EC from loot you can get
• How many specialization powers you unlock along the way
• How many Starship Mastery levels and Traits you can unlock

It is not like you do 887 missions and then finally you get 50 abilities unlock (e.g. every 17-18 missions). You get them unlocked along the way, each time adding some bonuses or even gaining a new ability along the way.

js26568

alaric63 wrote: »

OP = Total putz. If you chose to grind away at one Patrol Mission, you get what you deserve. You purposely bore yourself to death, and then blame the Devs. That's totaly ridiculous. You did it to yourself.

I got to lvl 60 easily, following the story line, running the combined Patrol Missions and hitting the Open Missions on Kobali Prime. It took a week.

Torture yourself if you want, but don;t try to lay the blame on anyone else.

Do it in a week now. Go on. Do it.

Note: I left in your bizarre claim to have leveled to level 60 in a week because it's hilarious.

bierstein

alaric63 wrote: »

OP = Total putz. If you chose to grind away at one Patrol Mission, you get what you deserve. You purposely bore yourself to death, and then blame the Devs. That's totaly ridiculous. You did it to yourself.

Torture yourself if you want, but don;t try to lay the blame on anyone else.

Note: I edited out the part about leveling to 60. It wasn't relevent to the OP's lengthy rant.

Things have changed since release in a huge way. I too had no problem but when I was helping a friend from 58-60 it took as long as it too me from 50-60 except in their case we were trying to lvl, in my case I wasn't it was just that much easier.

meimeitoo

alaric63 wrote: »

OP = Total putz. If you chose to grind away at one Patrol Mission, you get what you deserve. You purposely bore yourself to death, and then blame the Devs. That's totaly ridiculous. You did it to yourself.

I'd love to know which patrol you -- as, you know, a non-Putz -- run that pays out as much as Argala.

seriousdave

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

Not shown in the depiction:

• How much EC from loot you can get
• How many specialization powers you unlock along the way
• How many Starship Mastery levels and Traits you can unlock

It is not like you do 1000 missions and then finally you get 50 abilities unlock. You get them unlocked along the way, each time adding some bonuses or even gaining a new ability along the way.

Really, EC? Since the nerf vendortrash has minimal worth and the drops from patrols aren't really good to begin with. The EC you get from grinding Argala is barely worth mentioning.

And as for ship traits, well, that's only if you actually bought one or more T6 ships and it also greatly depends what faction that toon is. Roms and klings still only have 2 T6 ships with traits (4 with box ships) whereas the feds already have 6 (8 with boxes). So roms and klings have a lot more grinding just for grinding's sake ahead of them.

peterconnorfirst

alaric63 wrote: »

OP = Total putz. If you chose to grind away at one Patrol Mission, you get what you deserve. You purposely bore yourself to death, and then blame the Devs. That's totaly ridiculous. You did it to yourself.

Torture yourself if you want, but don;t try to lay the blame on anyone else.

Note: I edited out the part about leveling to 60. It wasn't relevent to the OP's lengthy rant.

The OP pointed out the most efficient time/reward ratio for spec skill progression. That’s Argala. Everything else will take longer.

Now the question is to torture yourself or not to. Everybody should decide for himself if its worth it or not. If u want to progress fast. This is SADLY the only way to go.

If you don’t care about your progression alls cool. Play peacefully then like I do after my alts all reached lvl 60. Just get used to the fact then that cryptic will likely introduce new skill trees faster than you can fill them by playing joyful through endgame. If you can live with that fine, if the OP doesn’t want to its fine as well.

He has every right to point out a very claustrophobic and hardly necessary endgame situation to the Devs.

js26568

Whenever someone dives into these threads with some sort of insult against the OP and backs it up with some frankly irrational claim that all is OK with the game, I have to chuckle.

The OP is right. Level 60 players have been backed into a boring corner and that corner's name is Argala.

rickpaaa

Thanks for making it easy to level ships, but everything else about the game progression is in stasis. Giving us specialization trees to fill, and nothing to fill them with is a cruel joke. Hahahahahaha anyway! :P

thutmosis85

mattjohnsonva wrote: »

OK then, what do you suggest, oh and by the way you are out of touch with most people in this game on this issue but I'll play along. Lets take all 103 replayable missions, in total they give you around 206000 XP, so that means in order to max out one character, one mind you, you can forget about your alts, you need to run ALL the story missions 38 times, let's see what that looks like:

Yeah I see no Scenario which won't bore you to death, that's the problem ... even if you think Mission Arcs XYZ are god's gift to humanity, I somehow doubt you want to repeat it more than once a month, without Repitition/Boredom -> so that's 3 years total ... "EVE Online" is "casual" compared to this nonsense ...

futurepastnow

There shouldn't be a single clearly superior route to advancement. Ideally, replaying story missions, grinding patrols, doffing heavily, or running queued missions- should all have an equal reward for an equal time investment. But, of course, they don't. One of those methods far exceeds the others in XP/minute.

Cryptic needs to stop futzing around with fine-tuning patrol XP, and increase the rewards of those other activities to match.

peterconnorfirst

futurepastnow wrote: »

Cryptic needs to stop futzing around with fine-tuning patrol XP, and increase the rewards of those other activities to match.

Almost sounds like paradise in an mmorpg! Imagine all these happy people in STO everywhere.

janus1975

futurepastnow wrote: »

There shouldn't be a single clearly superior route to advancement. Ideally, replaying story missions, grinding patrols, doffing heavily, or running queued missions- should all have an equal reward for an equal time investment. But, of course, they don't. One of those methods far exceeds the others in XP/minute.

Cryptic needs to stop futzing around with fine-tuning patrol XP, and increase the rewards of those other activities to match.

I agree, the mere fact that players are even talking about a single scenario as the "key place to level up" is concerning, when this is supposed to be a game that's meant to have so much to offer.

But the numbers themselves show that either you have to invest hours a day to get ahead, or you have to give up. Cryptic is basically fracturing the playerbase into the "haves" and "have nots" to such an extent that it'll end up being "Cliquey Elites Online" rather than "Massively Multiplayer Online"... even more so than it is already.

alopen

alaric63 wrote: »

OP = Total putz. If you chose to grind away at one Patrol Mission, you get what you deserve. You purposely bore yourself to death, and then blame the Devs. That's totaly ridiculous. You did it to yourself.

Torture yourself if you want, but don;t try to lay the blame on anyone else.

Note: I edited out the part about leveling to 60. It wasn't relevent to the OP's lengthy rant.

Queues dont pay out enough xp for the time they take, they take forever to actually run since they're usually empty, and some of us liked to pvp to break up the the pve cycle with some pvp on the side pre-DR. Without grinding most of the spec points and upgrading every doodad on the ship, you aren't competitive these days. Now you may say oh well you pvp and thats your problem. However, it wasnt that hard togear up alts in the past and many of us like to rotate playstyles via alts. And yes alts were viable in pvp pre-DR. Now its a chore becuase queues dont run, im outclassed in pvp, and th only way to change that is to gind argala 887 times.

This was always a casual game and now its not. That is the reason for the angst against the devs. Which is strange since theyre driving away old customers and i really doibt they are getting that many new customers as replacements.

rossclansforce1

OP that is awesome! Great work on a very clear picture! Most players do one or two runs a day when they feel inclined. Normally they give up after 10. With that many runs it will take how many days? just curious if anybody has next years calender...

Oh and by the way having a sci to spam gravity wells..etc.. it speeds things up a little on that long mission. Not enough to remove months off the grind, but enough to not lose all hope?

js26568

All this is due to the seriously flawed thinking at Cryptic - that the longer someone plays a game, the higher their average spending on it.

Let's see.. shall I buy myself a T6 ship just to grind Argala for the next year?

I think not.

janus1975

js26568 wrote: »

All this is due to the seriously flawed thinking at Cryptic - that the longer someone plays a game, the higher their average spending on it.

Let's see.. shall I buy myself a T6 ship just to grind Argala for the next year?

I think not.

Just realized, that's probably the old problem of correlation being taken for causation.

Pre-DR I really, really enjoyed STO. As a result of enjoying the game so much, I made several toons (my nine regulars, plus a whole range of alts to try out every species, usually discarded once it hit Captain/RA). Because I loved it, I played a lot (of course!) And I also bought almost everything there was to buy.

But here's the rub: I didn't buy lots of stuff because I was on for a long time. Nor was I on a long time because I bought lots of stuff. Rather, I enjoyed (past tense) the game, and as a result both was on for a long time and bought stuff to further improve my experience.

But am I going to grind through Argala 7,983 times (or other less-profitable patrols even more times) just to level up my toons? No. Do I regret buying the DR pack which would only be of value in grinding out Argala 7,983 times across nine toons? Why yes, yes I do.

Cryptic: correlation is not causation... the result of your nerfing is you've broken your own successful formula!

meimeitoo

futurepastnow wrote: »

There shouldn't be a single clearly superior route to advancement. Ideally, replaying story missions, grinding patrols, doffing heavily, or running queued missions- should all have an equal reward for an equal time investment. But, of course, they don't. One of those methods far exceeds the others in XP/minute.

Cryptic needs to stop futzing around with fine-tuning patrol XP, and increase the rewards of those other activities to match.

Totally agreed. Except I would turn it around, and say there shouldn't be clearly inferior routes to advancement. Because, way I see it, Cryptic meant to nerf everything, but kinda left Argala intact, (rightfully) fearing a huge outrage should they touch that as well. Which they actually did anyway.

Seriously, just make the rest as rewarding, XP-wise, as Argala. Let go of the fear something horrible will happen if you do. Without doing so, people will pretty much only run Argala exclusively. And instead of 1, that's giving them 887 reasons to quit the game.

englishnod

alaric63 wrote: »

OP = Total putz. If you chose to grind away at one Patrol Mission, you get what you deserve. You purposely bore yourself to death, and then blame the Devs. That's totaly ridiculous. You did it to yourself.

Torture yourself if you want, but don;t try to lay the blame on anyone else.

Note: I edited out the part about leveling to 60. It wasn't relevant to the OP's lengthy rant.

allow me to put the OS's post in some context.

The original XP post in not so many words lead everyone to believe that the xp was a numbers change only and that the players would see no change, this is clearly wrong as everyone and their dog can see it has changed.

it requires 7,740,000 skill points to achieve the extra 50 spec points required to achieve completion of all the tree's (op's figure is slightly off here but close enough)
as where previously it was only 2,775,000 skill points to gain those 50 spec points.

the following comparison is based on the mission reward only and not critter kills.
under the old system it required:
2940 runs of argala to achieve those extra 50 spec points above level 60 @ 944 xp
under the new system it requires:
2836 runs of argala to achieve those extra 50 spec points above level 60 @ 2730 xp
Now for all intent and purposes of the original XP change post this is actually correct and there is no change (well a slight decrease).

Now when you take into consideration the critter kills i worked out that under the old system it was roughly 10 runs through argala to achieve one level and under the new system it is more like 21 runs, this was worked out for me on normal difficulty.
this is where the original XP change thread is off in its statement by saying the player would see no change, the critter kills have not been increased in respect of there being no change to be seen by the players as it its clear there is a visible change.

now for the replay of episode content, if i recall under the old system the replay reward was only 908 skill points? but for the sake of this post we will go with what geko said was the old value of argala which was 944, i know it was sub 1000 points.
once again this does not include the critter kills.
under the old system with reward of 944 points it requires 2940 replays of the episodes to achieve those extra 50 spec points above level 60
under the new system with a reward of 1993 points it requires 3884 replays of the episodes to achieve those extra 50 spec points above level 60
This way requires an extra 944 episode replays in total to achieve the full spec points required to unlock all tree's.
This also shows that the original XP change post is not true to the claims of the post as there is a visible change even on the story content and there should not be.

The queues xp reward is even worse and i will let someone else work that one out but my point is that the queues should not be this dead and i honestly believe that past level 50/60 they should be the way to go to grind the xp and the good rewards but that is just what i believe on this matter.

So in summary to your post you are right the OP can go play other content but why should they when a patrol missions has a better payout than all other content when it reality Cryptic want us to play other content to level up but the rewards for that content are worse than previously.
This content should reward more than a patrol mission anyway as it takes longer than most patrols.

EDIT: just to point out the episode replay rewards may also include the 3% skill point bonus i receive for 200 day subscription i have. so this may be a little less or more for everyone else.

js26568

In my last year of playing I've spent far more on the game than the cost of a lifetime subscription and the price of the Delta pack combined. I used to buy every new ship as it came out and I have quite a few lockbox ships bought with real cash (from the keys to EC method)

Am I going to buy a Tier 6 ship as things stand? No, I wouldn't get to enjoy it.

futurepastnow

janus1975 wrote: »

But the numbers themselves show that either you have to invest hours a day to get ahead, or you have to give up. Cryptic is basically fracturing the playerbase into the "haves" and "have nots" to such an extent that it'll end up being "Cliquey Elites Online" rather than "Massively Multiplayer Online"... even more so than it is already.

This, far more than the cost of upgrades, is why I've essentially given up on ever playing my alt characters again. I could grind out the gear upgrades, given time. But I'll never make up the spec point deficit on them.

I used to be able to switch characters to have fun with something different... but not inferior. Now they'll never be equivalent again.

I *have* invested hours a day to get ahead... with one character. And given up on the others.

nikephorus

Leveling is a depressing thing to think about so I don't anymore. So thx for throwing this in my face and reminding me again just how depressing it is with even moar detail. :mad: Time to go fly my starship into an asteroid.

meimeitoo

futurepastnow wrote: »

This, far more than the cost of upgrades, is why I've essentially given up on ever playing my alt characters again. I could grind out the gear upgrades, given time. But I'll never make up the spec point deficit on them.

I used to be able to switch characters to have fun with something different... but not inferior. Now they'll never be equivalent again.

^^ This. So *very* much this!

johnsteward

js26568 wrote: »

All this is due to the seriously flawed thinking at Cryptic - that the longer someone plays a game, the higher their average spending on it.

Let's see.. shall I buy myself a T6 ship just to grind Argala for the next year?

I think not.

This!

Although the really strange thing is that unlike with the upgrades where you kind of have to put dil in to get your items back fast or stop playing that char or with crafting whereyou could speed things up by putting in dil there is nothing like that for lvling. Usually ppl spend zen/dil to speed things up but the only thing that would help here are the hillariously overpriced and useless skill boosts.

Did they really thought those would start to be used en masse?

wintermutevres

I see there are still people who live in a "just play and you will get everything along the way" dream. Well you wont. Argala is the fastest way to levelup. F-A-S-T-E-S-T. And its still a very darn slow way. If you will do ur grind any other way you wont get anything at all in your lifetime. Yours sons and dauthers will have to finish intel skill tree for you. We need a huge (and i mean HUGE) XP boost across the board and we need it asap.

PS. love the "argala-argala-argala" part OP, hehe

shinra84

heh just use tricks next time like other players... i have one toon with full specialization.

Yes is painfull - other my characters just wait in hangars.

futurepastnow

I wish I could go back in time to the day DR launched, and spend those first few days running Japori day and night to get all of my alts to level 110.

They'd call me an exploiter but at least now, a month and a half later, I wouldn't feel so screwed over by a video game.

js26568

futurepastnow wrote: »

I wish I could go back in time to the day DR launched, and spend those first few days running Japori day and night to get all of my alts to level 110.

They'd call me an exploiter but at least now, a month and a half later, I wouldn't feel so screwed over by a video game.

Same here. When I heard what people were doing I thought "why are they doing that? Just play the game normally and have fun"

That worked out well for me...

meimeitoo

js26568 wrote: »

All this is due to the seriously flawed thinking at Cryptic - that the longer someone plays a game, the higher their average spending on it.

Actually, that is, by itself, a sound marketing principle. Naturally you have to offer variety, lest players leave prematurely. Letting peeps run 887 rounds of Argala ain't it. That only drives good people mad. Or, to paraphrase Einstein:

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again... Period." :P

@shinra84: hilarious variation to the Bob sig. Love it!