I get 1 spec point from just running ques and doing doffs every 3-4 days. That means for me to max out, I am looking at something like 240 days...which is about 2/3 of a year...as far as a MMO goes...that's NOTHING. And I don't really need those spec points to do what I do anyways. I'm still having fun flying my favorite ST ship and killing millions of innocent drones...and when I do get a spec point, it's a nice sense of progression. If you turned the game from something fun into work just because you feel you NEED something NOW...your doing it wrong.
What is the difference between gardening and farming? Between hobby wood working and being a carpenter? Between cooking as a hobby and being a chef? One if a hobby and one is work. The difference between the two is that you do one because you WANT to, the other because you HAVE to. If your making your hobby into work...your doing it wrong...you should be trying to turn your work into your hobby.
Maybe...but I think the real question is....are you having fun while chipping away at this rate. Tolerance for any long term activity in a game is based ultimately on how much you are enjoying it. I personally am finding it boring and am finding less and less reasons to log on. I'm down to me enjoying doing things with my fleetmates because the game itself is a far less fun experience than it used to be....for me anyway.
No fun and long grind = find something else to do eventually.
What about my other 10 alts? Or perhaps I should dump them and stick with one from each faction, or maybe you think I should just have one main toon and forget all the others with all their gear that I've spent the last 4 years building up?
Alts is where Cryptic really killed the game for me.
Even though I had but a single real Rom alt, I nonetheless invested heavily in her. Got her lockboxes, the very expensive purple doffs, Lobi gear, etc. The insane Upgrade cost has made me have to effectiely abandon her.
And, to add insult to injury, they started heavily nerfing XP across the board, cuz, God forbid, I'd actually be temped to train up my alt too. But you know what, Cryptic?! You win: I won't be using her at all any more. Which means: not a penny spent on her any more. That is what you wanted.
I can't pass up a chance to make a funny, but when did they say that?
New Lunar Republic
"Where monsters rampage, I'm there to take them down! Where treasure glitters, I'm there to claim it! Where an enemy rises to face me, victory will be mine!" -Lina Inverse
I've seen you post this point a variety of times and, with a few exceptions, not received a favorabke response to it. I think the basic premise is wrong for many of us. We did not consider our situation static when we were max level and max rep. When a new rep came out we cringed at a new time gated grind, put our heads down and eagerly awaited when it would be over so we could resume fully enjoying the game before the next silly time gated grind.
I agree with the guy you gave this response too. We were enjoying the game just fine when we were maxed out...many of us anyway it would seem. You seem to feel that was a static situation...it appears many of the people posting here disagee.
The point of leveling is for it to be over.
Trying to force daily logins do not equate to more money for cryptic if we are not having fun when we do.
But why be obsessive about being maxxed out? Imagine they had never added specialization points. You went to Level 60 and that would be it. You would do whatever you wanted. Why is it psychologically impossible to ignore those other 50 pseudo-levels that grant you specialisation points? Why is so difficult to see that as a kind of "extra reward"?
I guess psychologists have smart answers for that. Or maybe not, and they are eagerly studying the phenomena and writing papers about it. And if not even that, they really should.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
If your not having fun, then don't PLAY...the point of PLAY is to have FUN. Such a simple concept that people seem unwilling to accept.
So we can't try to improve something we like ? We either like it or leave it ? I seriously hate this non-argument.
We used to like this game before DR, that's why we try to improve it, so we can continue having fun.
I was never taught to back down from a fight. I don't run when I see a complication. I try to fight it.
Nah not obsessive, I'd just wish they added something worth anyones time, instead ...
If it's not worth your time, you don't need to do it. And you can still play STO! It's like having a radio that can also play country music. If you hate country music, you can turn on a classic rock station and ignore all the country stations.
Unless the (very, very rare) indicator implying that you gained a specialization point is bothersome to you.
DOFFing to max levels takes forever, too. But people are not that obsessed about it.
THe first Diplomacy system (before there were DOFFs) would have taken forever to level with the few existing missions.
Maybe that was the mistake Cryptic made. Tying this in with skill points. They should have invented another special token reward system. Tying it to skill points makes it feel like "real" levels that you must have before you can do the real stuff.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
If it's not worth your time, you don't need to do it. And you can still play STO!
Oh boy another "if you don't ... then don't" - Strawman ... yes I can still play STO ... but they just wasted a whole "Expansion" imho ... if they keep doing that, than no I "can't" still play STO, because there is nothing left to play (& enjoy) ... it's an MMO not an 4h COD Clone, it should "evolve" & introduce new stuff worth my time, etc ... if it doesn't, there is no reason for all these fancy $30 Ships & other investments I made over time etc ...
I don't think most people are asking for instant max levelling. just more balance in the rewards.
if there is a patrol I can do in 10 minutes for 5000 sp, why can't I get 30,000 sp for doing a 1 hour Foundry mission.
At least then I can do different missons instead of the same patrol a few hunderd times
"The soldier above all others prays for peace, for it is the soldier who must suffer and bear the deepest wounds and scars of war."
Douglas MacArthur - Quote on the dedication plaque of the U.S.S. Ranger NCC-97332-A Armitage class Fleet Heavy Strike Wing Escort.
My three contraband-farming Marauders all got to level 60 via doffing. Took between two and three weeks. But I hardly use those characters for anything else. I used to- two of them have lockbox/lobi ships that cost a ton of EC. But, yanno. Gear upgrades.
I don't think most people are asking for instant max levelling. just more balance in the rewards.
if there is a patrol I can do in 10 minutes for 5000 sp, why can't I get 30,000 sp for doing a 1 hour Foundry mission.
At least then I can do different missons instead of the same patrol a few hunderd times
Absolutely. I can run a patrol for 9k XP in 5 minutes (an amount that will be doubled soon if the Tribble patch is to be believed)... or I can replay a story mission for 3k XP in 20 minutes. Or I can play an Elite queue like BHE for 2k XP in 10 minutes. Why the disparity? Why the kick in the head for playing actual content instead of repetitive nonsense?
Devs have said, in the past, that the main reason we don't get more "featured episode" story missions is that they have no replay value compared to mark-earning queues. In response, players have suggested adding better replay rewards- generally in the form of dil. But large amounts of XP on replay would be a pretty enticing reward, too. Heck, let us choose between a box with 480 dil or 40k XP for replaying story missions, and playing Foundry missions. Then everyone wins.
But why be obsessive about being maxxed out? Imagine they had never added specialization points. You went to Level 60 and that would be it. You would do whatever you wanted. Why is it psychologically impossible to ignore those other 50 pseudo-levels that grant you specialisation points? Why is so difficult to see that as a kind of "extra reward"?
I guess psychologists have smart answers for that. Or maybe not, and they are eagerly studying the phenomena and writing papers about it. And if not even that, they really should.
Nothing obsessive about it....just the goal. No one wants to wander into a queue with a substantial disadvantage vs the others they are partied with. Its why people hate P2W models.
If you are cool with it, all good. But at least acknowledge at least there are some that don't feel the same and won't feel the same regardless of what rarionalizations are thown at them.
7,900,000 skill points needed to get from level 60 to level 110, effectively all the spec points, and even with your doubling of the patrol rewards, that still requires 887 Argala patrols on average PER TOON. Just to put that into perspective, this is what 887 Argala Patrols looks like:
Argala Patrol ...
Ok, one Argala run is how long? 10 minutes on average with a good ship / build ?
And you can take time out for other fun things, like Dilithium grinding, crafting, the Reputations, Event grinding. It should relax you for the next Argala Patrol.
Line 35: [11:16] [System] [NumericReceived] You received 1,805 Specialization Experience
Line 47: [11:19] [System] [NumericReceived] You received 1,805 Specialization Experience
Line 57: [11:21] [System] [NumericReceived] You received 1,805 Specialization Experience
Line 73: [11:24] [System] [NumericReceived] You received 1,805 Specialization Experience
Line 83: [11:26] [System] [NumericReceived] You received 1,805 Specialization Experience
Line 97: [11:31] [System] [NumericReceived] You received 1,805 Specialization Experience
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Line 131: [11:39] [System] [NumericReceived] You received 1,805 Specialization Experience
16245 XP in 23 minutes on Kobali doing Open Missions.
16245 XP in 23 minutes on Kobali doing Open Missions.
Am I missing something?
In my case, you're missing the zero interest I have in playing Delta Rising coupled with the cynical nerfing of XP everywhere else to force people to play Delta Rising, which is what resulted in those figures you have. Now if only they spent all that time they spend nerfing and removing options on fixing game-breaking bugs...
I level once a day with active duffing alone, not even touching a single patrol. If you do that as well, you will surely not have to do even 500 Argala's. Considering there's so much other stuff to do (Investigate Daily Foundry Reports, Fleet Alert, Borg Red Alert, Episode Replay etc), you can level up without getting bored to deaf for sure.
"Everything about the Jham'Hadar is lethal!" - Eris
Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
Lets keep these ridiculous claims coming ... it's getting better & better further down the road ... what's next : "I lvl once a day, with the SFA Quiz only ... while cooking Filet Mignon & singing Opera" ...
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
I level once a day with active duffing alone, not even touching a single patrol. If you do that as well, you will surely not have to do even 500 Argala's. Considering there's so much other stuff to do (Investigate Daily Foundry Reports, Fleet Alert, Borg Red Alert, Episode Replay etc), you can level up without getting bored to deaf for sure.
maybe it is that some wanted it. And some don't want it.
Now some are happy that they have a long term goal,and others are not, because they never wanted a long-term goal.
But the magics of internet echo chamber and pre-selection bias ensures that you never really hear both sides, only the one that is not satisfied right now. And we can't even tell which side is bigger, and how many neutrals exist.
I'm aware of that, I was just trying to put it into perspective for the OP.
You know what?! There's no such thing as a 'long term goal' in an MMO like ours. There *cannot* be. This is not like real life, where you go, say, to medical school, and emerge 8 years later, being a full surgeon.
Can you demonstrate this? Because there are already examples of people having long-term goals in MMORPGs.
Besides, players(not all, but a good portion) that reached endgame and got every item regularly want something to do. STO had players like that before DR. Now, if you get to endgame and get all the gear you want, you can still keep earning specialization and ranking up said endgame gear. This is a feature of DR.
This is STO, not exactly 'constant as the Northern Star.' Every six months or so they change the game drastically, or pull the rules right from under you (Trait system, anyone?). So, any realistic goal kinda has to fit said half-year time frame, max. If not, chances are what you were after either no longer exists, has been devaluated, or has simply changed too much -- and is thus something you can't really bank on, long-term wise.
Depends on the goals, really. But the fact is, in MMORPGs, if you have a character full of maxed stats and gear, unless the game has an uncommon feature, the players aren't going to have anything to do.
The above is also, btw, why R&D is inherently fail. Ceteris paribus, which is to say, if STO were *guaranteed* stagnant for like 4 years, these very long-term Epic R&D goals might work. But by then the game will have changed so much, that currently making such a 'deep investment' is simply foolhearted.
...maybe?
It's not like if the game changes, any and every investment WILL be useless in 6 months. In fact, the R&D system was designed for an evolving game in mind. The devs don't want any of our gear to go outdated in favor of newer stuff. That's why they're letting us upgrade anything, say in case Mk XVI comes out, or eventually T7. We can still keep our gear, and it can progress with us.
The point is, the devs don't want us to run out of things to do. You(not you in particular, meimeitoo) can call it a chore or 'trying to catch the carrot' if you want, but it's meant to merely exist so it'll keep people from quitting if they ran into a content end and have nothing to do.
I level once a day with active duffing alone, not even touching a single patrol. If you do that as well, you will surely not have to do even 500 Argala's. Considering there's so much other stuff to do (Investigate Daily Foundry Reports, Fleet Alert, Borg Red Alert, Episode Replay etc), you can level up without getting bored to deaf for sure.
Aggressive doffing will give 1/5 of a level a day. That includes a good 12 hour mission like shore leave or the delta one and a good amount of crits.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I'm not going to lie ans say i read all 17 pages. but what i did read is
wahhhhh I can't max my character in 4 days.
and these are the same people who 4 months ago were
wahhhhh there isn't any content! it's to EASY
Comments
Maybe...but I think the real question is....are you having fun while chipping away at this rate. Tolerance for any long term activity in a game is based ultimately on how much you are enjoying it. I personally am finding it boring and am finding less and less reasons to log on. I'm down to me enjoying doing things with my fleetmates because the game itself is a far less fun experience than it used to be....for me anyway.
No fun and long grind = find something else to do eventually.
Thanks
Free Tibet!
Alts is where Cryptic really killed the game for me.
Even though I had but a single real Rom alt, I nonetheless invested heavily in her. Got her lockboxes, the very expensive purple doffs, Lobi gear, etc. The insane Upgrade cost has made me have to effectiely abandon her.
And, to add insult to injury, they started heavily nerfing XP across the board, cuz, God forbid, I'd actually be temped to train up my alt too. But you know what, Cryptic?! You win: I won't be using her at all any more. Which means: not a penny spent on her any more. That is what you wanted.
Am I bitter about this? Yes.
Close enough lolz
I can't pass up a chance to make a funny, but when did they say that?
"Where monsters rampage, I'm there to take them down! Where treasure glitters, I'm there to claim it! Where an enemy rises to face me, victory will be mine!" -Lina Inverse
It's a laugh a minute here.
Free Tibet!
Nah ... WoW is just fine ... :P
I guess psychologists have smart answers for that. Or maybe not, and they are eagerly studying the phenomena and writing papers about it. And if not even that, they really should.
We used to like this game before DR, that's why we try to improve it, so we can continue having fun.
I was never taught to back down from a fight. I don't run when I see a complication. I try to fight it.
Nah not obsessive, I'd just wish they added something worth anyones time, instead ...
"If you don't like our product, don't buy it!"
May I suggest you don't pursue a career in advertising.
+
"If you don't like the previous comment, don't respond!"
-> the whole "if you don't ... than don't" - Argument is idiotic at best ... "If you don't like Saddam, don't vote for him" i.E. ....
They lost 500k players in a month. About 750K in 3months.
I think the players listened.
If it's not worth your time, you don't need to do it. And you can still play STO! It's like having a radio that can also play country music. If you hate country music, you can turn on a classic rock station and ignore all the country stations.
Unless the (very, very rare) indicator implying that you gained a specialization point is bothersome to you.
DOFFing to max levels takes forever, too. But people are not that obsessed about it.
THe first Diplomacy system (before there were DOFFs) would have taken forever to level with the few existing missions.
Maybe that was the mistake Cryptic made. Tying this in with skill points. They should have invented another special token reward system. Tying it to skill points makes it feel like "real" levels that you must have before you can do the real stuff.
Oh boy another "if you don't ... then don't" - Strawman ... yes I can still play STO ... but they just wasted a whole "Expansion" imho ... if they keep doing that, than no I "can't" still play STO, because there is nothing left to play (& enjoy) ... it's an MMO not an 4h COD Clone, it should "evolve" & introduce new stuff worth my time, etc ... if it doesn't, there is no reason for all these fancy $30 Ships & other investments I made over time etc ...
No it doesn't ...
if there is a patrol I can do in 10 minutes for 5000 sp, why can't I get 30,000 sp for doing a 1 hour Foundry mission.
At least then I can do different missons instead of the same patrol a few hunderd times
Douglas MacArthur - Quote on the dedication plaque of the U.S.S. Ranger NCC-97332-A Armitage class Fleet Heavy Strike Wing Escort.
Absolutely. I can run a patrol for 9k XP in 5 minutes (an amount that will be doubled soon if the Tribble patch is to be believed)... or I can replay a story mission for 3k XP in 20 minutes. Or I can play an Elite queue like BHE for 2k XP in 10 minutes. Why the disparity? Why the kick in the head for playing actual content instead of repetitive nonsense?
Devs have said, in the past, that the main reason we don't get more "featured episode" story missions is that they have no replay value compared to mark-earning queues. In response, players have suggested adding better replay rewards- generally in the form of dil. But large amounts of XP on replay would be a pretty enticing reward, too. Heck, let us choose between a box with 480 dil or 40k XP for replaying story missions, and playing Foundry missions. Then everyone wins.
Nothing obsessive about it....just the goal. No one wants to wander into a queue with a substantial disadvantage vs the others they are partied with. Its why people hate P2W models.
If you are cool with it, all good. But at least acknowledge at least there are some that don't feel the same and won't feel the same regardless of what rarionalizations are thown at them.
Ok, one Argala run is how long? 10 minutes on average with a good ship / build ?
887 x 10 = 8870 minutes
8870 / 60 = 147,83 hours
lets say ~ 150 hours
150 / 10 = 15
I repeat: 15
15 what you ask?
You only need to listen to the whole official Argala Patrol Song fifteen times!
And you can take time out for other fun things, like Dilithium grinding, crafting, the Reputations, Event grinding. It should relax you for the next Argala Patrol.
SEE IT POSITIVE !!!
If you were planning on doing all your leveling via XP, then, yes, it does.
In Cryptic's defense, though (wait, wut?!) they're offering some *very* good XP doff missions in the Delta Quadrant (over 1,000 XP per Trade mission).
Line 47: [11:19] [System] [NumericReceived] You received 1,805 Specialization Experience
Line 57: [11:21] [System] [NumericReceived] You received 1,805 Specialization Experience
Line 73: [11:24] [System] [NumericReceived] You received 1,805 Specialization Experience
Line 83: [11:26] [System] [NumericReceived] You received 1,805 Specialization Experience
Line 97: [11:31] [System] [NumericReceived] You received 1,805 Specialization Experience
Line 109: [11:33] [System] [NumericReceived] You received 1,805 Specialization Experience
Line 119: [11:36] [System] [NumericReceived] You received 1,805 Specialization Experience
Line 131: [11:39] [System] [NumericReceived] You received 1,805 Specialization Experience
16245 XP in 23 minutes on Kobali doing Open Missions.
Am I missing something?
In my case, you're missing the zero interest I have in playing Delta Rising coupled with the cynical nerfing of XP everywhere else to force people to play Delta Rising, which is what resulted in those figures you have. Now if only they spent all that time they spend nerfing and removing options on fixing game-breaking bugs...
Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
Lets keep these ridiculous claims coming ... it's getting better & better further down the road ... what's next : "I lvl once a day, with the SFA Quiz only ... while cooking Filet Mignon & singing Opera" ...
No you don't, stop lying.
Can you demonstrate this? Because there are already examples of people having long-term goals in MMORPGs.
Besides, players(not all, but a good portion) that reached endgame and got every item regularly want something to do. STO had players like that before DR. Now, if you get to endgame and get all the gear you want, you can still keep earning specialization and ranking up said endgame gear. This is a feature of DR.
Depends on the goals, really. But the fact is, in MMORPGs, if you have a character full of maxed stats and gear, unless the game has an uncommon feature, the players aren't going to have anything to do.
...maybe?
It's not like if the game changes, any and every investment WILL be useless in 6 months. In fact, the R&D system was designed for an evolving game in mind. The devs don't want any of our gear to go outdated in favor of newer stuff. That's why they're letting us upgrade anything, say in case Mk XVI comes out, or eventually T7. We can still keep our gear, and it can progress with us.
The point is, the devs don't want us to run out of things to do. You(not you in particular, meimeitoo) can call it a chore or 'trying to catch the carrot' if you want, but it's meant to merely exist so it'll keep people from quitting if they ran into a content end and have nothing to do.
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
And a new meme was born.
http://i.imgur.com/cdLMA0L.jpg
Free Tibet!
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
wahhhhh I can't max my character in 4 days.
and these are the same people who 4 months ago were
wahhhhh there isn't any content! it's to EASY
so what the hell do you want?
Reading comprehension ...