maybe it is that some wanted it. And some don't want it.
Now some are happy that they have a long term goal,and others are not, because they never wanted a long-term goal.
But the magics of internet echo chamber and pre-selection bias ensures that you never really hear both sides, only the one that is not satisfied right now. And we can't even tell which side is bigger, and how many neutrals exist.
I don't care about a long term goal, and I think that's true for a lot of people. The problem is the grind. Not the long term goal.
Basically, what you say is "I don't see why you are hungry, you have plenty of water". We complain about the grind, and you say having a long term goal is fine.
Why the level 110.. why do feel you got to max level "NOW"? You will get there eventually, just play the game, and take the every now and then ability boost as a perk for longevity.
Kinda like the old days with veteran rewards where you actually had to be in game for a certain length of time to get certain rewards. Guess you can't "BUY" your way to max level in a day this time But go ahead and grind that mission 800+ times if you want so you can hurry along to max.
I myself will just play and take the bonus abilities as they come along, but they will not be my sole purpose for playing. :cool:
Ferasan Foreign Legion Fleet Admiral
J-Dan22
On paper, that sound good. Unfortunately, the xp we earn from doing endgame stuff is so ridiculously low (we are speaking 2-3K xp per stf, when you need about a million xp for a specialization point) we have no hope to complete the current specialization tree in a lifetime, unless we start some hardcore grinding. And they'll add more trees in the future.
Even if it's not your goal to complete it, to really enjoy it enough (IE spend a bunch of point and start unlocking things), you'll have to grind. Or hope your kids will continue your work.
On paper, that sound goo. Unfortunately, the xp we earn from doing endgame stuff is so ridiculously low (we are speaking 2-3K xp per stf, when you need about a million xp for a specialization point) we have no hope to complete the current specialization tree in a lifetime, unless we start some hardcore grinding. And they'll add more trees in the future.
Even if it's not your goal to complete it, to really enjoy it enough (IE spend a bunch of point and start unlocking things), you'll have to grind. Or hope your kids will continue your work.
I think they will eventually soften this up they are still looking at stats and trying to tune stuff.
However powerlevelling is probably giving them the wrong impression if any number of people are doing it.
I am not doing it I get my guys to 60 and then ignore that panel and just have fun.
I don't care about a long term goal, and I think that's true for a lot of people. The problem is the grind. Not the long term goal.
Basically, what you say is "I don't see why you are hungry, you have plenty of water". We complain about the grind, and you say having a long term goal is fine.
On paper, that sound goo. Unfortunately, the xp we earn from doing endgame stuff is so ridiculously low (we are speaking 2-3K xp per stf, when you need about a million xp for a specialization point) we have no hope to complete the current specialization tree in a lifetime, unless we start some hardcore grinding. And they'll add more trees in the future.
Even if it's not your goal to complete it, to really enjoy it enough (IE spend a bunch of point and start unlocking things), you'll have to grind. Or hope your kids will continue your work.
Well... I did recently become a father, and I've already introduced him to STO. He seems like the shiny colours quite a bit, so there is still hope.
I just never thought that we'd have a "STO - The Next Generation".
I think they will eventually soften this up they are still looking at stats and trying to tune stuff.
I hope so. But if we don't keep telling them how much we hate the way it is currently, do you think they'll bother changing anything ?
Just 2 days ago Smirk was still saying how successful the expansion was.
yes there is. Now that I have the Rep gear I want I am back to doing more Foundry missons. The problem is even with the Officer Reports you are lucky to get 3000 xp.
"The soldier above all others prays for peace, for it is the soldier who must suffer and bear the deepest wounds and scars of war."
Douglas MacArthur - Quote on the dedication plaque of the U.S.S. Ranger NCC-97332-A Armitage class Fleet Heavy Strike Wing Escort.
I hope so. But if we don't keep telling them how much we hate the way it is currently, do you think they'll bother changing anything ?
Just 2 days ago Smirk was still saying how successful the expansion was.
Yes... best expansion ever! And the Players love it!
Beta, LTA, CE, Multiple preorder Versions, all Addon Packs except AoY, nearly all KDF/Rom and ~50% of all Fedships, over 25 LockboxShips, Endurer of Atari's "Year of Hell", but...
No you won't (not without Power Grind of some sort) ... cause, I doubt the game is still here in 20 years :P
The OP is using Argala runs as count. But Argala is not the maximum of skill points you can gain on a day.
How many skill points do you earn a typical day? How many skill points do you gain on a good day? How many skill points do you gain during a double skill point event?
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
OK then, what do you suggest, oh and by the way you are out of touch with most people in this game on this issue but I'll play along. Lets take all 103 replayable missions, in total they give you around 206000 XP, so that means in order to max out one character, one mind you, you can forget about your alts, you need to run ALL the story missions 38 times, let's see what that looks like:
Here is the list for you:
Stranded In Space Diplomatic Orders Hide and Seek Stop the Signal Researcher Rescue The Kuvah'Magh Treasure Trading Station Secret Orders Task Force Hippocrates Skirmish Spin the Wheel What Lies Beneath Everything Old is New Night of the Comet The Ultimate Klingon The Doomsday Device City on the Edge of Never Past Imperfect Temporal Ambassador
Wasteland Secrets of Nimbus The Lost City of Paradise Blind Men Tell All Tales The Undying A Fistful of Gorn Installation 18
Romulan Mystery Heading Out Under the Cover of Night Minefield Divide et Impera Saturday's Child Preemptive Strike Hunting the Hunters Project Nightingale By Any Means Ground Zero Ghost Ship Friend of My Enemy Taris Trapped S'harien's Swords The Vault Mine Enemy Frozen Coliseum Cutting the Cord Darkness Before the Dawn
Cardassian Struggle Venture into Deep Space Badlands Suspect War Games Shutdown Rapier Forging Bonds The Long Night The Tribble with Klingons Tear of the Prophets Crack in the Mirror The New Link Seeds of Dissent The Other Side Cage of Fire Second Wave Of Bajor Operation Gamma Facility 4028 Boldly They Rode
Borg Advance Report to Gamma Orionis Where Angels Fear to Tread A Gathering Darkness Assimilation Fluid Dynamics
Breen Invasion Cold Call Out in the Cold Cold Comfort Cold Case Cold Storage
Solanae Dyson Sphere Sphere of Influence Circles within Circles Supply Woes The Contested Zone The Omega Standoff Tower Control A Step Between Stars Fluidic Destruction Surface Tension
Delta Rising Escalation Mindscape Reunion Friends in Unlikely Places Revelations Enemies in All the Usual Places The Kobali Front With Friends Like These... All That Glitters Know Your Enemies Capture the Flag The Dragon's Deceit Alliances Better with Friends Revolution Taking Care of Enemies Takedown What's Left Behind
Now shall I really past that another 37 times or do you get the picture yet?
OK then, I know let's play the queues....but wait, the queues are empty, it takes ages to for one to drop except one or two that people play for other rewards. Why are the queues dead? because people are playing Argala over and over to get skill points. There is only one set of people to blame here, that is the team that control this game.
I see there are still people who live in a "just play and you will get everything along the way" dream. Well you wont. Argala is the fastest way to levelup. F-A-S-T-E-S-T. And its still a very darn slow way. If you will do ur grind any other way you wont get anything at all in your lifetime. Yours sons and dauthers will have to finish intel skill tree for you. We need a huge (and i mean HUGE) XP boost across the board and we need it asap.
PS. love the "argala-argala-argala" part OP, hehe
I believe that we've already gotten a boost to XP gain. That isn't the problem. It would be nice if the XP Requirements went back down. That would solve the issues with these complaints.
yes there is. Now that I have the Rep gear I want I am back to doing more Foundry missons. The problem is even with the Officer Reports you are lucky to get 3000 xp.
I play on advanced and elite and haul in between roughly 5-6k and that is usually not counting the officer report and normal mission reward from the foundry.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
The OP is using Argala runs as count. But Argala is not the maximum of skill points you can gain on a day.
How many skill points do you earn a typical day? How many skill points do you gain on a good day? How many skill points do you gain during a double skill point event?
Casual Joe probably ~3000 / ~4000 XP per day (remember EVERY day ... no Holidays ... no playing other games, for a few weeks etc) ... do the math ... -> ~7 years, assuming Casual Joe hasn't made the mistake of playing other Toons & Factions -> otherwise it's "~20 years to life" ...
PS : running Argala is the max. skill points per day ... or are we talking about Doffing 24/7 during Argala Patrols ... PVE Queues & Mission Replay is a waste of time XP-wise, aka even more time/replays ...
PPS : If you manage to have time during Skill Point Events every 6 months, you'll probably save a few months ... still 6 years 6 months to go ...
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
I play on advanced and elite and haul in between roughly 5-6k and that is usually not counting the officer report and normal mission reward from the foundry.
I used to play on adv. and elite till the bad guys became bags o' hit points. Are you playing combat heavy missions? I go for the story content.
Even with your numbers, an hour on a Foundry mision or 10 minunts in a patrol. Which one will people do to level?
"The soldier above all others prays for peace, for it is the soldier who must suffer and bear the deepest wounds and scars of war."
Douglas MacArthur - Quote on the dedication plaque of the U.S.S. Ranger NCC-97332-A Armitage class Fleet Heavy Strike Wing Escort.
You know, it was heavily implied once they announced the Specializations that there would be more introduced later on. This will make that grind even worse. So much worse, but why would we even care about a new specialization? You can only have one active at any time and I wouldn't want to give up all my ridiculously hard work on Intel to try a new one.
To gain enough XP for all the spec points now you're still looking at over 200 days work based on the OP's workings.
That's assuming you do 4x patrols per day (maybe a couple of hours per day max?), every day for the duration of that 200+ days.
Only a hardcore grinder is going to be doing that. In fact a hardcore grinder would probably do Argala runs 24/7 if they were desperate.
BUT...how does this affect the average player? I'd hazard a guess and say most players would never see their character maxed out, they'd die of boredom first.
Plus who in their right mind is going to do the same repeated patrol mission (or series of missions) for months on end just to get spec'd up for what...the non-existent endgame content?
Hell like someone else already said even running through the entire mission chain again needs to be done 38 times to get the required XP.
It's the exact same problem with crafting once you hit Lvl. 15. Getting to Lvl. 20 on schools is a herculean task, even more so for casual players.
Your only choice for progressing past certain points in STO now are eye-bleedingly boring and repetitive grinds.
If the game keeps on this way it'll be dead and buried long before most people get half way through their spec points as the only people left will be hardcore grinders with no social lives.
although I have been managing ok I have only got 3 characters so maybe if I had more I would be nowhere near where I am now so I cant help agreeing with the OP and if it helps to bring disgruntled players back to the game to spend money on ships and stuff its got to be good for everyone.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
You know, it was heavily implied once they announced the Specializations that there would be more introduced later on. This will make that grind even worse. So much worse, but why would we even care about a new specialization?
Quite frankly, I don't believe them. Almost every system they've added to the game, they've abandoned after it went live. I think they put "add new specializations" on the whiteboard when they were making the system, and I think that's already been erased.
Quite frankly, I don't believe them. Almost every system they've added to the game, they've abandoned after it went live. I think they put "add new specializations" on the whiteboard when they were making the system, and I think that's already been erased.
Agreed, I'm sure it was planned but after the blatant nerf to the Specialization Points system there's no way they'd be stupid enough to add another tree.
Casual Joe probably ~3000 / ~4000 XP per day (remember EVERY day ... no Holidays ... no playing other games, for a few weeks etc) ... do the math ... -> ~7 years, assuming Casual Joe hasn't made the mistake of playing other Toons & Factions -> otherwise it's "~20 years to life" ...
PS : running Argala is the max. skill points per day ... or are we talking about Doffing 24/7 during Argala Patrols ... PVE Queues & Mission Replay is a waste of time XP-wise, aka even more time/replays ...
PPS : If you manage to have time during Skill Point Events every 6 months, you'll probably save a few months ... still 6 years 6 months to go ...
Even casual Joe gets at least 10k from doffing alone. 1 borg disconnected to grab the marks for rep is 4-5k. That's 20-30 minutes a day.
If you want to use hyperbole's then at least make them semi-plausible.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
7,900,000 skill points needed to get from level 60 to level 110, effectively all the spec points, and even with your doubling of the patrol rewards, that still requires 887 Argala patrols on average PER TOON. Just to put that into perspective, this is what 887 Argala Patrols looks like:
//snip//
887 Patrols, per character.
Give us better XP for critter kills, give us better rewards for all the other content you have produced so we may play it, 2000 XP for a story mission is pathetic, they should offer 10-20K depending on the time it takes. Give us good rewards for every queue so that we can see the queues fill with people and watch the life flood back into the game.
Even casual Joe gets at least 10k from doffing alone
Sorry that's BS ...
1. "Casual Joe" probably isn't even doffing, and if he is, certainly not with 100+ VR Doffs ...
2. 10k ... seriously ... I'm doffing on several Toons once a day ... and they receive ~4000 max for a full roster every 24h ... we're talking about Casual Joe here ...
PS : What's up with "doffing alone" ... doffing is one of the most efficient ways to get XP
1 borg disconnected to grab the marks for rep is 4-5k. That's 20-30 minutes a day.
20-30min every day ... yeah that's what Casual Joe will probably put into the game ... are we talking "Borg Disconnected - Advanced/Elite" btw ... yeah sorry Casual Joe is not gonna do that ... get real ... I'm not talking about the heavily involved Forum Poster with 1000+ Posts, 4 years playtime, several MK XII Sets etc ...
-> If you're a Newbie you're screwed anyway, for that matter ...
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
My main problem is the grind from 50-60, cool it Cryptic. As far as 60+ I don't really care, no one is being forced to max specs on the other hand people shouldn't be forced through the kind of 50-60 grind that currently exists to play certain content with their friends, at 60+ just do what you enjoy, specs will come even if super slowly. No one has to max them out.
Even casual Joe gets at least 10k from doffing alone. 1 borg disconnected to grab the marks for rep is 4-5k. That's 20-30 minutes a day.
If you want to use hyperbole's then at least make them semi-plausible.
uhh that's 10 days for 1 spec point. Thats 600 days to max it out. 300 days to get 2 specs finished. Poor Joe
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Quite frankly, I don't believe them. Almost every system they've added to the game, they've abandoned after it went live. I think they put "add new specializations" on the whiteboard when they were making the system, and I think that's already been erased.
They added plenty of reputations over time. So I don't think that's a clear case.
I tend to think that they should make sure that queued content and foundry content grant equal skill point rewards to stuff like Argala. And how much higher it should be then now I don't know. I am not really in the camp of "I need a long-term goal".
I wonder how much they could improve the feeling of the system if they lowered the amount of skill points by a factor of 3, but tripled the amount of specialization points currently needed. Imagine every single point now being actually 3, slowly boosting the buffs there. You would actually get measurable "felt" progress more often.
Of course, now it would likely be too late, because people only look at the end value, not the steps in between.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
casual Joe, who by the way is now gaining legendary status, is totally irrelevant
Nah "Casual Joe" matters ... he's the guy you're gonna play & compete with ~70% of the time => if "Casual Joe" isn't remotely up to the task ... the task is pointless / will fail 70% of the time ... aka Power Creep Deluxe...
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
I don't agree mate. If I run all 20 doff assignments and choose the best rewarding ones for XP, then I may get between 5 and 10K if some of the bigger ones crit, but that's because I have hundreds of purple doffs, casual Joe hasn't got that many and he also doesn't bother checking the assignments, he simply slots what's available and certainly wouldn't bother going to his department heads or opening the replicator for items needed.
I'm taking a screenshot of my daily DOff results tomorrow... today's result was 18k specialization points, and that's typical.
Yes, I have between 300-400 very rare DOffs, but if you do as well like you claim, and you're not at least breaking 10k daily, you're doing it wrong
Comments
Basically, what you say is "I don't see why you are hungry, you have plenty of water". We complain about the grind, and you say having a long term goal is fine.
On paper, that sound good. Unfortunately, the xp we earn from doing endgame stuff is so ridiculously low (we are speaking 2-3K xp per stf, when you need about a million xp for a specialization point) we have no hope to complete the current specialization tree in a lifetime, unless we start some hardcore grinding. And they'll add more trees in the future.
Even if it's not your goal to complete it, to really enjoy it enough (IE spend a bunch of point and start unlocking things), you'll have to grind. Or hope your kids will continue your work.
I think they will eventually soften this up they are still looking at stats and trying to tune stuff.
However powerlevelling is probably giving them the wrong impression if any number of people are doing it.
I am not doing it I get my guys to 60 and then ignore that panel and just have fun.
Well... I did recently become a father, and I've already introduced him to STO. He seems like the shiny colours quite a bit, so there is still hope.
I just never thought that we'd have a "STO - The Next Generation".
Just 2 days ago Smirk was still saying how successful the expansion was.
yes there is. Now that I have the Rep gear I want I am back to doing more Foundry missons. The problem is even with the Officer Reports you are lucky to get 3000 xp.
Douglas MacArthur - Quote on the dedication plaque of the U.S.S. Ranger NCC-97332-A Armitage class Fleet Heavy Strike Wing Escort.
Yes... best expansion ever! And the Players love it!
The OP is using Argala runs as count. But Argala is not the maximum of skill points you can gain on a day.
How many skill points do you earn a typical day? How many skill points do you gain on a good day? How many skill points do you gain during a double skill point event?
37 times x 10 characters
Please post.
I believe that we've already gotten a boost to XP gain. That isn't the problem. It would be nice if the XP Requirements went back down. That would solve the issues with these complaints.
I play on advanced and elite and haul in between roughly 5-6k and that is usually not counting the officer report and normal mission reward from the foundry.
Casual Joe probably ~3000 / ~4000 XP per day (remember EVERY day ... no Holidays ... no playing other games, for a few weeks etc) ... do the math ... -> ~7 years, assuming Casual Joe hasn't made the mistake of playing other Toons & Factions -> otherwise it's "~20 years to life" ...
PS : running Argala is the max. skill points per day ... or are we talking about Doffing 24/7 during Argala Patrols ... PVE Queues & Mission Replay is a waste of time XP-wise, aka even more time/replays ...
PPS : If you manage to have time during Skill Point Events every 6 months, you'll probably save a few months ... still 6 years 6 months to go ...
I used to play on adv. and elite till the bad guys became bags o' hit points. Are you playing combat heavy missions? I go for the story content.
Even with your numbers, an hour on a Foundry mision or 10 minunts in a patrol. Which one will people do to level?
Douglas MacArthur - Quote on the dedication plaque of the U.S.S. Ranger NCC-97332-A Armitage class Fleet Heavy Strike Wing Escort.
That's assuming you do 4x patrols per day (maybe a couple of hours per day max?), every day for the duration of that 200+ days.
Only a hardcore grinder is going to be doing that. In fact a hardcore grinder would probably do Argala runs 24/7 if they were desperate.
BUT...how does this affect the average player? I'd hazard a guess and say most players would never see their character maxed out, they'd die of boredom first.
Plus who in their right mind is going to do the same repeated patrol mission (or series of missions) for months on end just to get spec'd up for what...the non-existent endgame content?
Hell like someone else already said even running through the entire mission chain again needs to be done 38 times to get the required XP.
It's the exact same problem with crafting once you hit Lvl. 15. Getting to Lvl. 20 on schools is a herculean task, even more so for casual players.
Your only choice for progressing past certain points in STO now are eye-bleedingly boring and repetitive grinds.
If the game keeps on this way it'll be dead and buried long before most people get half way through their spec points as the only people left will be hardcore grinders with no social lives.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Quite frankly, I don't believe them. Almost every system they've added to the game, they've abandoned after it went live. I think they put "add new specializations" on the whiteboard when they were making the system, and I think that's already been erased.
Agreed, I'm sure it was planned but after the blatant nerf to the Specialization Points system there's no way they'd be stupid enough to add another tree.
Oh, wait, they might be.
Free Tibet!
Even casual Joe gets at least 10k from doffing alone. 1 borg disconnected to grab the marks for rep is 4-5k. That's 20-30 minutes a day.
If you want to use hyperbole's then at least make them semi-plausible.
This post makes the world a worse place.
Sorry that's BS ...
1. "Casual Joe" probably isn't even doffing, and if he is, certainly not with 100+ VR Doffs ...
2. 10k ... seriously ... I'm doffing on several Toons once a day ... and they receive ~4000 max for a full roster every 24h ... we're talking about Casual Joe here ...
PS : What's up with "doffing alone" ... doffing is one of the most efficient ways to get XP
20-30min every day ... yeah that's what Casual Joe will probably put into the game ... are we talking "Borg Disconnected - Advanced/Elite" btw ... yeah sorry Casual Joe is not gonna do that ... get real ... I'm not talking about the heavily involved Forum Poster with 1000+ Posts, 4 years playtime, several MK XII Sets etc ...
-> If you're a Newbie you're screwed anyway, for that matter ...
uhh that's 10 days for 1 spec point. Thats 600 days to max it out. 300 days to get 2 specs finished. Poor Joe
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
They added plenty of reputations over time. So I don't think that's a clear case.
I tend to think that they should make sure that queued content and foundry content grant equal skill point rewards to stuff like Argala. And how much higher it should be then now I don't know. I am not really in the camp of "I need a long-term goal".
I wonder how much they could improve the feeling of the system if they lowered the amount of skill points by a factor of 3, but tripled the amount of specialization points currently needed. Imagine every single point now being actually 3, slowly boosting the buffs there. You would actually get measurable "felt" progress more often.
Of course, now it would likely be too late, because people only look at the end value, not the steps in between.
Nah "Casual Joe" matters ... he's the guy you're gonna play & compete with ~70% of the time => if "Casual Joe" isn't remotely up to the task ... the task is pointless / will fail 70% of the time ... aka Power Creep Deluxe...
I'm taking a screenshot of my daily DOff results tomorrow... today's result was 18k specialization points, and that's typical.
Yes, I have between 300-400 very rare DOffs, but if you do as well like you claim, and you're not at least breaking 10k daily, you're doing it wrong