Sorry but any true test of DPS build is single target/aoe under controlled conditions and STO doesnt really have that due to a number of factors. You would need something like a combat dummy.
I'm not knocking these guys for putting up big numbers. Its far more then the average players 1500dps. I swear they run 0 weapon power sometimes to be that sad on dmg.
But I am not impressed by good group tactics raising up the numbers of inferior ships, sorry they are what they are and while in a team they can be respectable it is a factor in my judgement.
With enough buffs/debuffs you could get a shuttle to do 100k dps doesnt make the player strong or the ship OP. Numbers are numbers and in team based combat they get skewed in this game, thems the breaks.
Nothing I have seen in these videos is over the top impressive considering the ship make ups and teamwork. Then again I have a brain that serves to do more then keep my skull from caving in. So impress the hell out of those 1500 dps people who can barely learn how to flip a light switch, just dont expect the rest of us to grovel at your feet.
No, you are just plain totally wrong.
DPS - Damage per second - The amount of damage done in a given amount of time.
Ezriryan has got 25k DPS out of an NX. Fact. He was out-DPSing 1 or 2 players in every run. Fact.
By any measure he was not being carried. Fact.
If you lot cannot accept these basic facts even talking to you is a waste of time.
The guy got 25k DPS out of an NX, and the response is exactly as I paraphrased/mocked - if you lot think you can do better, go ahead and do it. Go on.
But no, it is easier to just attack the guy because he actually used his brain to achieve a fantastic result, so in your collective envious uselessness it is all you do.
Tbh, we need to establish a way/mission that tests dps of your ship in an environment that doesn't involve other players. Aka, solo environment without influences of outside players.
I don't understand this. I mean, sure - I want to know that. I want to have target dummies and all the rest to be able to test things. Yadda, yadda, yadda...
...but in the end, our content is group content. It's team content. It's going to be about team composition and everybody working together. So that influence from outside players - well, it's not only something that's going to be there but it's also something that folks should be doing themselves...positively influencing those around them. Cause it's group content.
A bunch of folks out there are handicapping their groups by focusing so much on themselves - not realizing that they could "sacrifice" this or that and actually end up with better numbers.
Because it's not just them...it's the team. The better the team performs, the better they will perform. Group buffs 'n debuffs...etc, etc, etc.
Yeah, sure - I do want the target dummies cause of testing things and just doing that personal little DPS test sort of thing; but in the end - if the content is group content, well...it's group content - and - it's a case of what a person is bringing to the team in a team environment.
We've discussed recording a run with all T1 ships but that might humiliate 90% of the playerbase.
Do it, a little humility is needed
Chris Robert's on SC:
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
DPS - Damage per second - The amount of damage done in a given amount of time.
Ezriryan has got 25k DPS out of an NX. Fact. He was out-DPSing 1 or 2 players in every run. Fact.
By any measure he was not being carried. Fact.
If you lot cannot accept these basic facts even talking to you is a waste of time.
The guy got 25k DPS out of an NX, and the response is exactly as I paraphrased/mocked - if you lot think you can do better, go ahead and do it. Go on.
But no, it is easier to just attack the guy because he actually used his brain to achieve a fantastic result, so in your collective envious uselessness it is all you do.
Well, not knocking anyone that does great DPS.
But you know full well the team is a factor in DPS. Like that APB that's frequently found on the target in the video and not from the Galaxy's own abilities, which were TT and BFAW, which would be all that the Galaxy would support.
Things other players do in the team have major effects. Debuffs like APB, Ionic Turbulence, Sensor Scan. What happens when some ENG throws EPS Power Transfer someone's way? What happens when someone throws you a heal that would save you from blowing up?
It reminded me of an occasion during the Tau Dewa Patrols that were going on before Cryptic nuked them. I join one patrol group. One of the guys was excited about the performance of one of the other team members that was flying a Temporal Science Ship who was getting DPS of around the mid-40k's. As someone who's cut their teeth with Science, I was curious to observe during combat, but I had an idea on what the likely tactics were.
And it was very straight forward. Grav Well, TBR, Dyson Grav Torp with Torp Spread, Tactical Captain, etc. With the mass of enemies in these Patrol Groups on Elite, this was the setting such Science Builds drool over. But as a Science player myself, I also full well know that you remove most of those NPCs and reduce it to smaller numbers, the performance of that kind of build plummets like someone the Mafia drops in the river. I also know that other players' actions dictate what's going on. My ship was using DHC + CSV + APB with the occasional Sensor Scan on the massed clump of NPCs.
Now, seeing and knowing what happened for the guy to get his numbers the way he did, I wasn't exactly excited like the other guy was, but I do commend the competence in getting to that kind of performance. And I do appreciate the presence of a competent player that made the runs faster, smoother, more efficient. But I'm not bowing to anyone, either.
If someone goes out and gets these insane values solo and unsupported, then I'd be really impressed. But even then, there's ways to skew a setting to favor a build. Example like the Temporal Science Ship that I mentioned.
Edit to add: People talk **** about taking T1 Ships, Shuttles into Advanced? Do it solo. Survive it. Do the optionals. Get the high DPS. Then I'll be impressed.
I don't understand this. I mean, sure - I want to know that. I want to have target dummies and all the rest to be able to test things. Yadda, yadda, yadda...
...but in the end, our content is group content. It's team content. It's going to be about team composition and everybody working together. So that influence from outside players - well, it's not only something that's going to be there but it's also something that folks should be doing themselves...positively influencing those around them. Cause it's group content.
A bunch of folks out there are handicapping their groups by focusing so much on themselves - not realizing that they could "sacrifice" this or that and actually end up with better numbers.
Because it's not just them...it's the team. The better the team performs, the better they will perform. Group buffs 'n debuffs...etc, etc, etc.
Yeah, sure - I do want the target dummies cause of testing things and just doing that personal little DPS test sort of thing; but in the end - if the content is group content, well...it's group content - and - it's a case of what a person is bringing to the team in a team environment.
Indeed. It is group content but the problem is everyone only thinks in DPS. A guy could turn up in a random PUG and be great at supporting the team, healing them and de-buffing/controlling the enemies, and still get an earful of rage because they aren't doing as much DPS as everyone else.
The bulk of the game is also single player content, so it's not much of a surprise that everyone thinks in that mindset.
On a side note, I remember a friend of mine set up a Foundry mission to measure ship performance. Re-spawning ships that act as the test dummies just sitting in space, no movement or attacks or anything. No idea what it's called though.
Indeed. It is group content but the problem is everyone only thinks in DPS. A guy could turn up in a random PUG and be great at supporting the team, healing them and de-buffing/controlling the enemies, and still get an earful of rage because they aren't doing as much DPS as everyone else.
The bulk of the game is also single player content, so it's not much of a surprise that everyone thinks in that mindset.
On a side note, I remember a friend of mine set up a Foundry mission to measure ship performance. Re-spawning ships that act as the test dummies just sitting in space, no movement or attacks or anything. No idea what it's called though.
Thing is now there is pretty much no excuse to not do DPS even in a healing setup. Just check out the Recluses used, just check out how to setup a proper healboat. It's not that hard to do, check out the Reddit for STOBuilds, there's loads of useful info on there.
However there are people still running about whining they can't play a build which just results in death all the time because they have no idea how to build...
Chris Robert's on SC:
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
Thing is now there is pretty much no excuse to not do DPS even in a healing setup. Just check out the Recluses used, just check out how to setup a proper healboat. It's not that hard to do, check out the Reddit for STOBuilds, there's loads of useful info on there.
However there are people still running about whining they can't play a build which just results in death all the time because they have no idea how to build...
Exactly the mindset I described, but what if you don't want to do damage?
It isn't unreasonable to assume some players out there want to leave the DPS to tactical ships, and focus fully on performing their primary role - whether it is required or not. Bad builds will fail, but just because it's not built for any sort of direct damage it doesn't mean it's bad.
DPS - Damage per second - The amount of damage done in a given amount of time.
Ezriryan has got 25k DPS out of an NX. Fact. He was out-DPSing 1 or 2 players in every run. Fact.
By any measure he was not being carried. Fact.
If you lot cannot accept these basic facts even talking to you is a waste of time.
The guy got 25k DPS out of an NX, and the response is exactly as I paraphrased/mocked - if you lot think you can do better, go ahead and do it. Go on.
But no, it is easier to just attack the guy because he actually used his brain to achieve a fantastic result, so in your collective envious uselessness it is all you do.
Thing is with your weapons firing and no abilities used most ships should generate more then the average dps. Thats what gets people fired up. Its almost as if a large majority try to actively fail at killing probes let alone a boss.
It amazes me that people can't see that in a group doing buffs debuffs it augments another guys dps. And I never attacked the guys in the video. They did exactly what I would expect with those ships.
Its not hard to do damage in this game, and its far from being the most important. But it is an important factor in an STF to be able to manage a certain level of damage per ship. I used to see people fail to kill probes claim they couldnt do enough damage to them in a scimitar.... yet in stuff like my fleet galaxy r I destroyed them in a second.
I used to take T1-T2 ships into STFs and wreck face it wasnt hard back then with a pub. The people posting up these vids are doing just what they say they are, 25k dps in an NX in a group STF. And all Im saying is... so? Nothing truely remarkable from these videos. So why would I be jelly of them?
My fleet used to do **** like this for kicks, while its fun to us it wasnt anything because its something we did all the time. Premade teams with good players with good builds with good ships stomp STO into the dirt, its why they had to make it harder for those people. Obviously didn't happen lol.
However it did kick those people who werent upto that level square in the junk thus the forum firestorm.
But you know full well the team is a factor in DPS. Like that APB that's frequently found on the target in the video and not from the Galaxy's own abilities, which were TT and BFAW, which would be all that the Galaxy would support.
Things other players do in the team have major effects. Debuffs like APB, Ionic Turbulence, Sensor Scan. What happens when some ENG throws EPS Power Transfer someone's way? What happens when someone throws you a heal that would save you from blowing up?
It reminded me of an occasion during the Tau Dewa Patrols that were going on before Cryptic nuked them. I join one patrol group. One of the guys was excited about the performance of one of the other team members that was flying a Temporal Science Ship who was getting DPS of around the mid-40k's. As someone who's cut their teeth with Science, I was curious to observe during combat, but I had an idea on what the likely tactics were.
And it was very straight forward. Grav Well, TBR, Dyson Grav Torp with Torp Spread, Tactical Captain, etc. With the mass of enemies in these Patrol Groups on Elite, this was the setting such Science Builds drool over. But as a Science player myself, I also full well know that you remove most of those NPCs and reduce it to smaller numbers, the performance of that kind of build plummets like someone the Mafia drops in the river. I also know that other players' actions dictate what's going on. My ship was using DHC + CSV + APB with the occasional Sensor Scan on the massed clump of NPCs.
Now, seeing and knowing what happened for the guy to get his numbers the way he did, I wasn't exactly excited like the other guy was, but I do commend the competence in getting to that kind of performance. And I do appreciate the presence of a competent player that made the runs faster, smoother, more efficient. But I'm not bowing to anyone, either.
If someone goes out and gets these insane values solo and unsupported, then I'd be really impressed. But even then, there's ways to skew a setting to favor a build. Example like the Temporal Science Ship that I mentioned.
Edit to add: People talk **** about taking T1 Ships, Shuttles into Advanced? Do it solo. Survive it. Do the optionals. Get the high DPS. Then I'll be impressed.
In other words, teamwork isn't allowed.
In a MMO.
You know, Massive Multiplayer Online - that sort of game which has other people in? That in most cases you join up as a team to do stuff? Stuff like completing content, which may be completed faster by using teamwork?
Are you actually stupid, or just pretending? Of course using teamwork to improve everyone's performance is right and the best way to work, if it wasn't the game would be just plain broken.
Thing is with your weapons firing and no abilities used most ships should generate more then the average dps. Thats what gets people fired up. Its almost as if a large majority try to actively fail at killing probes let alone a boss.
It amazes me that people can't see that in a group doing buffs debuffs it augments another guys dps. And I never attacked the guys in the video. They did exactly what I would expect with those ships.
Its not hard to do damage in this game, and its far from being the most important. But it is an important factor in an STF to be able to manage a certain level of damage per ship. I used to see people fail to kill probes claim they couldnt do enough damage to them in a scimitar.... yet in stuff like my fleet galaxy r I destroyed them in a second.
I used to take T1-T2 ships into STFs and wreck face it wasnt hard back then with a pub. The people posting up these vids are doing just what they say they are, 25k dps in an NX in a group STF. And all Im saying is... so? Nothing truely remarkable from these videos. So why would I be jelly of them?
My fleet used to do **** like this for kicks, while its fun to us it wasnt anything because its something we did all the time. Premade teams with good players with good builds with good ships stomp STO into the dirt, its why they had to make it harder for those people. Obviously didn't happen lol.
However it did kick those people who werent upto that level square in the junk thus the forum firestorm.
Theres a difference between taking t1/t2 ships into old Elite, and getting 25k DPS doing it on new Advanced. Otherwise, I'm sure the "used to do it" would be "We do this all the time now." 25k DPS isn't remarkable with an NX ship? Kindly do the same. I'd like to see your video, too, please.
If someone is using a T5u/T6 ship, and is putting out 5k DPS, and KNOWS they are leeching on Advanced, I can see how they would be angered by this video. Otherwise, the negativity seems like sour grapes. A lot of "That isn't so great, anyone can do it. Me? Well, um, no, I don't wanna!"
I think it's great, as I like this kind of video. And good job on it.
A lot of "That isn't so great, anyone can do it. Me? Well, um, no, I don't wanna!"
I have no idea what my DPS is. I'm fairly sure I'm the worst player ever. Having a cloak is a Godsend, because at least in Mirror Invasion I can be really useful by swooping in and closing rifts when someone else aggros the entire area.
DPS - Damage per second - The amount of damage done in a given amount of time.
Ezriryan has got 25k DPS out of an NX. Fact. He was out-DPSing 1 or 2 players in every run. Fact.
By any measure he was not being carried. Fact.
If you lot cannot accept these basic facts even talking to you is a waste of time.
The guy got 25k DPS out of an NX, and the response is exactly as I paraphrased/mocked - if you lot think you can do better, go ahead and do it. Go on.
But no, it is easier to just attack the guy because he actually used his brain to achieve a fantastic result, so in your collective envious uselessness it is all you do.
This isn't a personal attack on Ezriyan or anyone else that can get good parse numbers. At least for me it's not. Eziryan and anyone else who can put out the numbers posted obviously knows their stuff and how to fly. BUT to claim that the Galaxy and/or this NX wasn't carried by the team is a little shortsighted. If you'd like to prove us naysayers wrong then organize a 5 man NX team and pull 25k dps or a 5 man Galaxy team and pull that same 40k dps. I would wager that it would be a great deal more difficult to pump out those same numbers. Prove us haters wrong.
I have no idea what my DPS is. I'm fairly sure I'm the worst player ever. Having a cloak is a Godsend, because at least in Mirror Invasion I can be really useful by swooping in and closing rifts when someone else aggros the entire area.
Regardless of what some like to claim, the "mean DPS crowd" helps people with their builds, if asked. I believe there's a Public DPS channel just for that purpose. If you're looking for someone to lend a hand, I'd suggest this. I know it has saved me a ton of time to be able to ask "does this really work as well as the numbers suggest?" on the 10k & 20k channels. Always a bunch of people willing to give info.
Theres a difference between taking t1/t2 ships into old Elite, and getting 25k DPS doing it on new Advanced. Otherwise, I'm sure the "used to do it" would be "We do this all the time now." 25k DPS isn't remarkable with an NX ship? Kindly do the same. I'd like to see your video, too, please.
If someone is using a T5u/T6 ship, and is putting out 5k DPS, and KNOWS they are leeching on Advanced, I can see how they would be angered by this video. Otherwise, the negativity seems like sour grapes. A lot of "That isn't so great, anyone can do it. Me? Well, um, no, I don't wanna!"
I think it's great, as I like this kind of video. And good job on it.
Not negative atleast not me, neutral ya. And I never said anyone can do it. Good players with good builds and good ships can.
And sorry but im not going to get into the pics/vids or it didnt happen TRIBBLE. I know what ive done/do and you can take my word for it or not, I could care less. Believe it or not more then this group of people can do those kinda numbers, not everyone advertise what they can do in vids.
Like I said their builds/teamwork was solid, and while their numbers are high, its nothing thats unexpected of good players. In their 101k DPS scim thread, i clicked on it looked at team makeup and watched a few seconds of it. Thats all it took for me to see how they got those numbers. *Yes I did watch whole thing not like it was long*
Not negative atleast not me, neutral ya. And I never said anyone can do it. Good players with good builds and good ships can.
And sorry but im not going to get into the pics/vids or it didnt happen TRIBBLE. I know what ive done/do and you can take my word for it or not, I could care less. Believe it or not more then this group of people can do those kinda numbers, not everyone advertise what they can do in vids.
Like I said their builds/teamwork was solid, and while their numbers are high, its nothing thats unexpected of good players. In their 101k DPS scim thread, i clicked on it looked at team makeup and watched a few seconds of it. Thats all it took for me to see how they got those numbers. *Yes I did watch whole thing not like it was long*
"25k dps in an NX in a group STF. And all Im saying is... so? Nothing truely remarkable from these videos."
I reiterate: If it's nothing remarkable, are you doing the same? Have you? Sorry, if you say "yes," I am unlikely to believe it without proof. Otherwise anyone can say "LOL I do 50k DPS in a shuttle."
If you haven't, try. 25k DPS is higher than most people whining about the advanced queues using T6 ships. Seems remarkable to me.
This isn't a personal attack on Ezriyan or anyone else that can get good parse numbers. At least for me it's not. Eziryan and anyone else who can put out the numbers posted obviously knows their stuff and how to fly. BUT to claim that the Galaxy and/or this NX wasn't carried by the team is a little shortsighted. If you'd like to prove us naysayers wrong then organize a 5 man NX team and pull 25k dps or a 5 man Galaxy team and pull that same 40k dps. I would wager that it would be a great deal more difficult to pump out those same numbers. Prove us haters wrong.
Niether ship was carried, and both were outperforming other people in the group. Get your facts straight.
Also, the NX did 17k before debuffs - somewhere between twice and three times the average STO player after APB/Sensor Scan/Fire on my Mark etc. - and you are trying to say it was being carried?
(Btw Giotariz has logged on a moment before screen fades to black, LOL )
Sad Pandas PvP - Starfleet Dental Member - Lag Industries Leader
--
"What a time it was, with all the world against us, what a time it was... When all we did seemed wrong,
we've broken all our bonds, but life kept going on, what a time, what a time it was..." - Clem Tholet
It amazes me that people are seriously not trolling when they discredit teamwork and the ability to take advantage of a ship's strength to help the rest of the team.
On a different topic, how do I join the dps channels? I received an invite when I uploaded my numbers on clr but those channels seem empty for some reason
It amazes me that people are seriously not trolling when they discredit teamwork and the ability to take advantage of a ship's strength to help the rest of the team.
On a different topic, how do I join the dps channels? I received an invite when I uploaded my numbers on clr but those channels seem empty for some reason
before Ryan solos ISA in a T1 ship I would like to see the people asking him to do so solo ISA in their T5/T6 ships.
Also if you have gotten an invite, go into Chat Settings > Channels > highlight the channel > click "join"
Niether ship was carried, and both were outperforming other people in the group. Get your facts straight.
Also, the NX did 17k before debuffs - somewhere between twice and three times the average STO player after APB/Sensor Scan/Fire on my Mark etc. - and you are trying to say it was being carried?
Well since I don't have my facts straight and I'm completely wrong get a group of 5 NX ships together and show me a 25k dps pars from anyone in that group. Any half decent pilot with good gear will have pretty good numbers when teamed with a bunch of scimitars and/or a recluse. Here is a well known fact for you. Your own dps is heavily dependent on your team. If you have a bad team your dps will suffer considerably. Back when I used to constantly check my own dps I noticed gains of between 25 - 35% low dps group vs premade from the dps channel. I wasn't suddenly flying any better nor was my ship geared differently. My own damage was inflated by my team.
Well since I don't have my facts straight and I'm completely wrong get a group of 5 NX ships together and show me a 25k dps pars from anyone in that group. Any half decent pilot with good gear will have pretty good numbers when teamed with a bunch of scimitars and/or a recluse. Here is a well known fact for you. Your own dps is heavily dependent on your team. If you have a bad team your dps will suffer considerably. Back when I used to constantly check my own dps I noticed gains of between 25 - 35% low dps group vs premade from the dps channel. I wasn't suddenly flying any better nor was my ship geared differently. My own damage was inflated by my team.
Stop trying to evade the point. The NX did 25k DPS - your refusal to accept it is your own issue.
This is a frakking MMO - teamwork is supposed to happen. Deal with it.
Stop trying to evade the point. The NX did 25k DPS - your refusal to accept it is your own issue.
This is a frakking MMO - teamwork is supposed to happen. Deal with it.
I'm not evading the point. You posted that a single individual did 25k dps and then in the next sentence you talk about teamwork. That is my issue. People claim dps numbers as their own, but their own numbers are heavily influenced by their teammates. This is the first MMO I've ever played were people make dps claims base on team events. Most other MMO's have practice dummies with which you can check your rotation and get accurate numbers without outside influences. This game doesn't and for some reason Infected became the benchmark (I suppose since it's a target rich environment without long gaps in combat) but I just find it a flawed way to track personal dps.
I'm not evading the point. You posted that a single individual did 25k dps and then in the next sentence you talk about teamwork. That is my issue. People claim dps numbers as their own, but their own numbers are heavily influenced by their teammates. This is the first MMO I've ever played were people make dps claims base on team events. Most other MMO's have practice dummies with which you can check your rotation and get accurate numbers without outside influences. This game doesn't and for some reason Infected became the benchmark (I suppose since it's a target rich environment without long gaps in combat) but I just find it a flawed way to track personal dps.
The single individual did do 25k DPS. Take total damage done and divide by time taken to do said damage - All the mathematic bits are done for you by the parser, so you only need to read the result.
All STO PvE queues rely on teams of players working together to do the required amount of damage in as little time as possible. Thus, people quote team boosted stats as they are actually what you want to know. In STO, tracking single player DPS is less useful, not more useful, because it is a multiplayer game with multiplayer content that almost every player does.
ISE/ISA was/is used because A) It is quick, You can complete it without ever needing to stop firing, C) STO players have been carefully trained like lab rats into being able to do ISE, D) everyone does it for Omega Marks, and E) an ISE DPS figure everyone understands instantly.
People claim dps numbers as their own, but their own numbers are heavily influenced by their teammates. This is the first MMO I've ever played were people make dps claims base on team events. Most other MMO's have practice dummies with which you can check your rotation and get accurate numbers without outside influences.
As a Mage i hereby claim the damage as mine for everyone who benefitted from my Timewarp (bloodlust introduced to mages with Cataclysm) actually only got that because of me.
,,Warp the flow of time, increasing haste by 30% for all party and raid members within 100 yards. Lasts 40 sec."
Further more I shall claim everyone's damage bonus from Arcane brilliance (10% Spellpower, 5% CrtH)
Further more... oh wait, actually no one cares how we achieved to get all the buffs, only important thing is, we had them, which makes it perfectly valid to compare, and IF we didnt, its our fault, because world of logs does not account or compensate our dps for setup shortcommings ;D
If you actually practice your dps on the dummy, your off by spellhaste (Shadowpriest and Owl/hunters sometimes) therefore completely mismatch your gear and will not optizimize correctly. Leaving CoE out of the calculation will also not make things better.
If you think those are accurate numbers, we at least know why we are having these kinda discussions ;D
It's hilarious how more and more restrictions get tacked on in order to make this "more believable."
Eventually, it will end up being "Well, unless you do this blindfolded, in a shuttle, with no weapons, solo, while eating a can of Alpo, I won't be impressed. Otherwise, anyone can do this. Me? I, um, could, but don't want to."
It's hilarious how more and more restrictions get tacked on in order to make this "more believable."
Eventually, it will end up being "Well, unless you do this blindfolded, in a shuttle, with no weapons, solo, while eating a can of Alpo, I won't be impressed. Otherwise, anyone can do this.
Me? I, um, could, but don't want to."
Comments
No, you are just plain totally wrong.
DPS - Damage per second - The amount of damage done in a given amount of time.
Ezriryan has got 25k DPS out of an NX. Fact. He was out-DPSing 1 or 2 players in every run. Fact.
By any measure he was not being carried. Fact.
If you lot cannot accept these basic facts even talking to you is a waste of time.
The guy got 25k DPS out of an NX, and the response is exactly as I paraphrased/mocked - if you lot think you can do better, go ahead and do it. Go on.
But no, it is easier to just attack the guy because he actually used his brain to achieve a fantastic result, so in your collective envious uselessness it is all you do.
I don't understand this. I mean, sure - I want to know that. I want to have target dummies and all the rest to be able to test things. Yadda, yadda, yadda...
...but in the end, our content is group content. It's team content. It's going to be about team composition and everybody working together. So that influence from outside players - well, it's not only something that's going to be there but it's also something that folks should be doing themselves...positively influencing those around them. Cause it's group content.
A bunch of folks out there are handicapping their groups by focusing so much on themselves - not realizing that they could "sacrifice" this or that and actually end up with better numbers.
Because it's not just them...it's the team. The better the team performs, the better they will perform. Group buffs 'n debuffs...etc, etc, etc.
Yeah, sure - I do want the target dummies cause of testing things and just doing that personal little DPS test sort of thing; but in the end - if the content is group content, well...it's group content - and - it's a case of what a person is bringing to the team in a team environment.
Do it, a little humility is needed
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
Well, not knocking anyone that does great DPS.
But you know full well the team is a factor in DPS. Like that APB that's frequently found on the target in the video
Things other players do in the team have major effects. Debuffs like APB, Ionic Turbulence, Sensor Scan. What happens when some ENG throws EPS Power Transfer someone's way? What happens when someone throws you a heal that would save you from blowing up?
It reminded me of an occasion during the Tau Dewa Patrols that were going on before Cryptic nuked them. I join one patrol group. One of the guys was excited about the performance of one of the other team members that was flying a Temporal Science Ship who was getting DPS of around the mid-40k's. As someone who's cut their teeth with Science, I was curious to observe during combat, but I had an idea on what the likely tactics were.
And it was very straight forward. Grav Well, TBR, Dyson Grav Torp with Torp Spread, Tactical Captain, etc. With the mass of enemies in these Patrol Groups on Elite, this was the setting such Science Builds drool over. But as a Science player myself, I also full well know that you remove most of those NPCs and reduce it to smaller numbers, the performance of that kind of build plummets like someone the Mafia drops in the river. I also know that other players' actions dictate what's going on. My ship was using DHC + CSV + APB with the occasional Sensor Scan on the massed clump of NPCs.
Now, seeing and knowing what happened for the guy to get his numbers the way he did, I wasn't exactly excited like the other guy was, but I do commend the competence in getting to that kind of performance. And I do appreciate the presence of a competent player that made the runs faster, smoother, more efficient. But I'm not bowing to anyone, either.
If someone goes out and gets these insane values solo and unsupported, then I'd be really impressed. But even then, there's ways to skew a setting to favor a build. Example like the Temporal Science Ship that I mentioned.
Edit to add: People talk **** about taking T1 Ships, Shuttles into Advanced? Do it solo. Survive it. Do the optionals. Get the high DPS. Then I'll be impressed.
Indeed. It is group content but the problem is everyone only thinks in DPS. A guy could turn up in a random PUG and be great at supporting the team, healing them and de-buffing/controlling the enemies, and still get an earful of rage because they aren't doing as much DPS as everyone else.
The bulk of the game is also single player content, so it's not much of a surprise that everyone thinks in that mindset.
On a side note, I remember a friend of mine set up a Foundry mission to measure ship performance. Re-spawning ships that act as the test dummies just sitting in space, no movement or attacks or anything. No idea what it's called though.
Thing is now there is pretty much no excuse to not do DPS even in a healing setup. Just check out the Recluses used, just check out how to setup a proper healboat. It's not that hard to do, check out the Reddit for STOBuilds, there's loads of useful info on there.
However there are people still running about whining they can't play a build which just results in death all the time because they have no idea how to build...
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
Exactly the mindset I described, but what if you don't want to do damage?
It isn't unreasonable to assume some players out there want to leave the DPS to tactical ships, and focus fully on performing their primary role - whether it is required or not. Bad builds will fail, but just because it's not built for any sort of direct damage it doesn't mean it's bad.
Thing is with your weapons firing and no abilities used most ships should generate more then the average dps. Thats what gets people fired up. Its almost as if a large majority try to actively fail at killing probes let alone a boss.
It amazes me that people can't see that in a group doing buffs debuffs it augments another guys dps. And I never attacked the guys in the video. They did exactly what I would expect with those ships.
Its not hard to do damage in this game, and its far from being the most important. But it is an important factor in an STF to be able to manage a certain level of damage per ship. I used to see people fail to kill probes claim they couldnt do enough damage to them in a scimitar.... yet in stuff like my fleet galaxy r I destroyed them in a second.
I used to take T1-T2 ships into STFs and wreck face it wasnt hard back then with a pub. The people posting up these vids are doing just what they say they are, 25k dps in an NX in a group STF. And all Im saying is... so? Nothing truely remarkable from these videos. So why would I be jelly of them?
My fleet used to do **** like this for kicks, while its fun to us it wasnt anything because its something we did all the time. Premade teams with good players with good builds with good ships stomp STO into the dirt, its why they had to make it harder for those people. Obviously didn't happen lol.
However it did kick those people who werent upto that level square in the junk thus the forum firestorm.
In other words, teamwork isn't allowed.
In a MMO.
You know, Massive Multiplayer Online - that sort of game which has other people in? That in most cases you join up as a team to do stuff? Stuff like completing content, which may be completed faster by using teamwork?
Are you actually stupid, or just pretending? Of course using teamwork to improve everyone's performance is right and the best way to work, if it wasn't the game would be just plain broken.
Theres a difference between taking t1/t2 ships into old Elite, and getting 25k DPS doing it on new Advanced. Otherwise, I'm sure the "used to do it" would be "We do this all the time now." 25k DPS isn't remarkable with an NX ship? Kindly do the same. I'd like to see your video, too, please.
If someone is using a T5u/T6 ship, and is putting out 5k DPS, and KNOWS they are leeching on Advanced, I can see how they would be angered by this video. Otherwise, the negativity seems like sour grapes. A lot of "That isn't so great, anyone can do it. Me? Well, um, no, I don't wanna!"
I think it's great, as I like this kind of video. And good job on it.
I have no idea what my DPS is. I'm fairly sure I'm the worst player ever. Having a cloak is a Godsend, because at least in Mirror Invasion I can be really useful by swooping in and closing rifts when someone else aggros the entire area.
I am curious about the percentage added to your DPS because of team play.
So all can see how incredible you are without team support of your top of the DPS channel friends.
BTW how many runs were required to get to this results. Or can you do this every time.
This isn't a personal attack on Ezriyan or anyone else that can get good parse numbers. At least for me it's not. Eziryan and anyone else who can put out the numbers posted obviously knows their stuff and how to fly. BUT to claim that the Galaxy and/or this NX wasn't carried by the team is a little shortsighted. If you'd like to prove us naysayers wrong then organize a 5 man NX team and pull 25k dps or a 5 man Galaxy team and pull that same 40k dps. I would wager that it would be a great deal more difficult to pump out those same numbers. Prove us haters wrong.
Regardless of what some like to claim, the "mean DPS crowd" helps people with their builds, if asked. I believe there's a Public DPS channel just for that purpose. If you're looking for someone to lend a hand, I'd suggest this. I know it has saved me a ton of time to be able to ask "does this really work as well as the numbers suggest?" on the 10k & 20k channels. Always a bunch of people willing to give info.
Not negative atleast not me, neutral ya. And I never said anyone can do it. Good players with good builds and good ships can.
And sorry but im not going to get into the pics/vids or it didnt happen TRIBBLE. I know what ive done/do and you can take my word for it or not, I could care less. Believe it or not more then this group of people can do those kinda numbers, not everyone advertise what they can do in vids.
Like I said their builds/teamwork was solid, and while their numbers are high, its nothing thats unexpected of good players. In their 101k DPS scim thread, i clicked on it looked at team makeup and watched a few seconds of it. Thats all it took for me to see how they got those numbers. *Yes I did watch whole thing not like it was long*
"25k dps in an NX in a group STF. And all Im saying is... so? Nothing truely remarkable from these videos."
I reiterate: If it's nothing remarkable, are you doing the same? Have you? Sorry, if you say "yes," I am unlikely to believe it without proof. Otherwise anyone can say "LOL I do 50k DPS in a shuttle."
If you haven't, try. 25k DPS is higher than most people whining about the advanced queues using T6 ships. Seems remarkable to me.
Doesn't require any telepathic ability to spot forum butthurt...
But, dun worry, Shpoksy... no doubt you're a special snowflake!
*grinz*
Kill Feddie.
Waff
Niether ship was carried, and both were outperforming other people in the group. Get your facts straight.
Also, the NX did 17k before debuffs - somewhere between twice and three times the average STO player after APB/Sensor Scan/Fire on my Mark etc. - and you are trying to say it was being carried?
(Btw Giotariz has logged on a moment before screen fades to black, LOL
we've broken all our bonds, but life kept going on, what a time, what a time it was..." - Clem Tholet
On a different topic, how do I join the dps channels? I received an invite when I uploaded my numbers on clr but those channels seem empty for some reason
before Ryan solos ISA in a T1 ship I would like to see the people asking him to do so solo ISA in their T5/T6 ships.
Also if you have gotten an invite, go into Chat Settings > Channels > highlight the channel > click "join"
Well since I don't have my facts straight and I'm completely wrong get a group of 5 NX ships together and show me a 25k dps pars from anyone in that group. Any half decent pilot with good gear will have pretty good numbers when teamed with a bunch of scimitars and/or a recluse. Here is a well known fact for you. Your own dps is heavily dependent on your team. If you have a bad team your dps will suffer considerably. Back when I used to constantly check my own dps I noticed gains of between 25 - 35% low dps group vs premade from the dps channel. I wasn't suddenly flying any better nor was my ship geared differently. My own damage was inflated by my team.
Stop trying to evade the point. The NX did 25k DPS - your refusal to accept it is your own issue.
This is a frakking MMO - teamwork is supposed to happen. Deal with it.
I was in an MMO and i joined a team queue; and there where other people in there with me!!! :eek:
what's worse is that i did better working in a team than i did solo. the humanity!
I'm not evading the point. You posted that a single individual did 25k dps and then in the next sentence you talk about teamwork. That is my issue. People claim dps numbers as their own, but their own numbers are heavily influenced by their teammates. This is the first MMO I've ever played were people make dps claims base on team events. Most other MMO's have practice dummies with which you can check your rotation and get accurate numbers without outside influences. This game doesn't and for some reason Infected became the benchmark (I suppose since it's a target rich environment without long gaps in combat) but I just find it a flawed way to track personal dps.
The single individual did do 25k DPS. Take total damage done and divide by time taken to do said damage - All the mathematic bits are done for you by the parser, so you only need to read the result.
All STO PvE queues rely on teams of players working together to do the required amount of damage in as little time as possible. Thus, people quote team boosted stats as they are actually what you want to know. In STO, tracking single player DPS is less useful, not more useful, because it is a multiplayer game with multiplayer content that almost every player does.
ISE/ISA was/is used because A) It is quick,
The sad part is they actually believe the stuff they make up...
As a Mage i hereby claim the damage as mine for everyone who benefitted from my Timewarp (bloodlust introduced to mages with Cataclysm) actually only got that because of me.
,,Warp the flow of time, increasing haste by 30% for all party and raid members within 100 yards. Lasts 40 sec."
Further more I shall claim everyone's damage bonus from Arcane brilliance (10% Spellpower, 5% CrtH)
Further more... oh wait, actually no one cares how we achieved to get all the buffs, only important thing is, we had them, which makes it perfectly valid to compare, and IF we didnt, its our fault, because world of logs does not account or compensate our dps for setup shortcommings ;D
If you actually practice your dps on the dummy, your off by spellhaste (Shadowpriest and Owl/hunters sometimes) therefore completely mismatch your gear and will not optizimize correctly. Leaving CoE out of the calculation will also not make things better.
If you think those are accurate numbers, we at least know why we are having these kinda discussions ;D
Eventually, it will end up being "Well, unless you do this blindfolded, in a shuttle, with no weapons, solo, while eating a can of Alpo, I won't be impressed. Otherwise, anyone can do this. Me? I, um, could, but don't want to."
Coming from someone who has only ever parsed dps in random pugs (me), THANK YOU.
Gaming experience enhanced x10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ukBspc9D0
@ 0:33 to 0:46
edit: actually, the entire trailer really.