Actually the dps-team dependency is a curve shaped like a hill. If you get really good teammates, your dps can drop below your pug-dps. Players on dps cannibalize dps at some point, so very high dps in a team/high standing in the combatlog, isnt a given. Its a contest.
What you describe are not realy good team mates imho, because a GOOD team for a record run is a team that supports the one player who is going for the record properly (and a team that has enough dps team wise, to finish ISA quickly, to profit most from the dps caused by stacking), so not by sabotaging the run for own DPS .
Also the people high on the ranking have supported each other in the runs to get high in the rankings. They know each other for long time and protect their place. Do all single outsiders capable of reaching top 15 positions get the same team support, or long weekend runs to try to break the record from this group of intimi, as they have given their friends?
A contest would be: all in the same ships, same setup and see who does most DPS.
I'm not evading the point. You posted that a single individual did 25k dps and then in the next sentence you talk about teamwork. That is my issue. People claim dps numbers as their own, but their own numbers are heavily influenced by their teammates. This is the first MMO I've ever played were people make dps claims base on team events. Most other MMO's have practice dummies with which you can check your rotation and get accurate numbers without outside influences. This game doesn't and for some reason Infected became the benchmark (I suppose since it's a target rich environment without long gaps in combat) but I just find it a flawed way to track personal dps.
^^ This. Why the game has no solo event, or training dummy for DPS purposes is boggling. Since anyone who comes from another mmo kinda expects it. And would be the only true way to make a "I do 25k DPS" etc. claim.
This is a Team MMO so you can't claim "30k dps build" etc. It's all your build and teamplay.
Which is why I started only parsing and averaging my DPS based off several Pug runs.
1 run I'll parse 24k and barely live without dying, everything is targetting me only. Another ill pug 18-20 and hardly get hit, same piloting skills. Then another ill do 30k. It has everything to do with teamwork and makes DPS claims trivial. And Casuals shouldn't take offense and need to realize that.
These claims are good builds, Teamwork, piloting skills. A good pilot and a good build wont produce the numbers without a good team. These guys have all 3, but these videos are Teamwork videos.
^^ This. Why the game has no solo event, or training dummy for DPS purposes is boggling. Since anyone who comes from another mmo kinda expects it. And would be the only true way to make a "I do 25k DPS" etc. claim.
Since there's practically no skill rotations in STO dps against training dummies would come down to gear and build only. Player skill would have no effect.
I'm not a farmer. have just enough time each day to do Mirror on each toon and thats about it lately. But, I should look into the foundry. What foundry Mission do you use?
Been doing argala solo each day though, and seems to be a good judge of a build. Although my ships do differently there then I expected. Which is a good point to Casuals. Can't judge a build based off ISA only.
In ISA my JHDC is better then my Karfi. Exactly the oppisite in a solo Argala. My JHDC becomes my slowest ship from start to finish. Karfi having Grav well is a huge boon to pets.
My fastest is the Benthan. but thats T6 with OSS which is sorta the biggest DPS skill to come outta DR IMO.
2nd place is my Avenger. But, sadly too much of the endgame in this game is ISA online to the majority.
I'm not a farmer. have just enough time each day to do Mirror on each toon and thats about it lately. But, I should look into the foundry. What foundry Mission do you use?
Been doing argala solo each day though, and seems to be a good judge of a build. Although my ships do differently there then I expected. Which is a good point to Casuals. Can't judge a build based off ISA only.
In ISA my JHDC is better then my Karfi. Exactly the oppisite in a solo Argala. My JHDC becomes my slowest ship from start to finish. Karfi having Grav well is a huge boon to pets.
My fastest is the Benthan. but thats T6 with OSS which is sorta the biggest DPS skill to come outta DR IMO.
2nd place is my Avenger. But, sadly too much of the endgame in this game is ISA online to the majority.
I use the Loot-o-matic 3000 on elite since they provide 25 waves of shield-less ships for me to slug all my weapons on. You get to test spike damage with the first ship and from there onward it's a test to see single-target dps really. Although if it's elite, i can't imagine escorts or any squishy ships surviving since they can still hit hard. Im able to survive being a shield-tanking science captain/ship though.
P.S. I also do argala solo, but only when its against kazon and not hirogen/malon lol.
You know, Massive Multiplayer Online - that sort of game which has other people in? That in most cases you join up as a team to do stuff? Stuff like completing content, which may be completed faster by using teamwork?
Are you actually stupid, or just pretending? Of course using teamwork to improve everyone's performance is right and the best way to work, if it wasn't the game would be just plain broken.
Oh, don't play dumb with me.
It's exactly that Teamwork that carries everyone, and it can vary greatly depending on the people. Most esp so when you PUG it.
Say you do make those super-DPS oriented builds, some of which that I've seen have little to no self-sustainment. Completely dependent on others keeping you alive. If you fly with friends 100% of the time that don't mind keeping you alive and act as your personal live healboat, that's all good. If you ever find yourself in a group that isn't like that, that's a dice roll.
And as I said in my post, people disregard how much other players contribute to the success of a build. And if pieces of those contributions are ever missing, it's not quite the same.
People tout their high DPS and NEVER pay heed to the contributions of the other members on the team that got them to do it. Pay no heed to the Science captain that was out there doing Sensor Scans before people pile on the hurt. But pay no heed to the Grav Well, EMP, Ionic Turbulence someone threw on the NPCs to clump everything, debuff multiple NPCs to make it easier for you. But pay no heed to the ENG that throws EPS Power Transfer your way. But pay no heed to throw heals your way when you needed it to stay live. On and on. Because, you know, waiting for the Respawn button to come up is great for your DPS log.
It's always, "I GOT XXk DPS." Ok. Swell?
If these ingredients are missing, it's just not the same. It just means you've been getting carried; You rely on someone else to cover for your build's shortcomings, to improve it. But if others aren't helping prop you up, it's just not the same.
It's exactly that Teamwork that carries everyone, and it can vary greatly depending on the people. Most esp so when you PUG it.
Say you do make those super-DPS oriented builds, some of which that I've seen have little to no self-sustainment. Completely dependent on others keeping you alive. If you fly with friends 100% of the time that don't mind keeping you alive and act as your personal live healboat, that's all good. If you ever find yourself in a group that isn't like that, that's a dice roll.
And as I said in my post, people disregard how much other players contribute to the success of a build. And if pieces of those contributions are ever missing, it's not quite the same.
People tout their high DPS and NEVER pay heed to the contributions of the other members on the team that got them to do it. Pay no heed to the Science captain that was out there doing Sensor Scans before people pile on the hurt. But pay no heed to the Grav Well, EMP, Ionic Turbulence someone threw on the NPCs to clump everything, debuff multiple NPCs to make it easier for you. But pay no heed to the ENG that throws EPS Power Transfer your way. But pay no heed to throw heals your way when you needed it to stay live. On and on. Because, you know, waiting for the Respawn button to come up is great for your DPS log.
It's always, "I GOT XXk DPS." Ok. Swell?
If these ingredients are missing, it's just not the same. It just means you've been getting carried; You rely on someone else to cover for your build's shortcomings, to improve it. But if others aren't helping prop you up, it's just not the same.
Don't be so stupid.
You want to call me stupid when all you demonstrate is a lack of your own knowledge. Why don't you do some research? Or play with better players.
Here's something for you - if you kill stuff faster, it doesn't have time to shoot you. Number one rule of being a DPSer. And if you have 5 DPSers, stuff really doesn't have time to shoot you.
The fact is the best DPSers were soloing STFs pre-DR (and still could if it wasn't for lack of DPS now) there is so much survivability thrown around now no DPSer should ever die if they are prepared.
But no, instead you want to talk about pugs. I.E. relying on AFKers, outright trolls, people who don't know what they are doing, and very rarely the person who does know what to do. Of course you need to compromise a build for survivability in pugs, you go in assuming you will be the only competent player there, because frequently you are.
Pugging is inherently not the right way to go. Running with a group of players who do is a far better idea.
You want to call me stupid when all you demonstrate is a lack of your own knowledge. Why don't you do some research? Or play with better players.
Here's something for you - if you kill stuff faster, it doesn't have time to shoot you. Number one rule of being a DPSer. And if you have 5 DPSers, stuff really doesn't have time to shoot you.
The fact is the best DPSers were soloing STFs pre-DR (and still could if it wasn't for lack of DPS now) there is so much survivability thrown around now no DPSer should ever die if they are prepared.
So, other high DPSers are needed to help carry you? Thanks for proving my point.
No need for us to show it. It's YOU that's talking all the **** about it.
You still gonna get that high DPS?
Here's the thing. These guys could post the avg of ten runs of Starbase 234. As a minimum to give an estimation of an individual ship's potential.
They aren't interested in benchmarks. They truly aren't. They're about the same as the arena guys that didn't want to admit that an arena build wasn't superior to a pug build. Invariably they would bring 4 friends to the pug ques....And surprise they win! With some unfortunate accidents along the way.
Who saw that coming?
Call teamwork what it is, OP. If you can't, or won't, distinguish between a team approach and team results then how can you be taken seriously? You can't, can you?
There's no need to denigrate what they are doing as it should be obvious to anyone exactly what's going on. It would just be refreshing if they credited it properly.
Just remember, there's a reason they show this specific content. And it isn't cause it's hard.
You're looking at scripted content that's been out for years.
Move along, nothing to see here until the day they accept basic standards and practices.
So, other high DPSers are needed to help carry you? Thanks for proving my point.
No, in an ISE/ISA one takes centre, 2 go left, 2 go right. 4 who went either side take two gens each, whole lot is done in sub-1 minute/2 and a little bit minutes.
But thanks for displaying your lack of knowledge again.
No, in an ISE/ISA one takes centre, 2 go left, 2 go right. 4 who went either side take two gens each, whole lot is done in sub-1 minute/2 and a little bit minutes.
But thanks for displaying your lack of knowledge again.
My last reply to you buzzed off some of your hair, didn't it?
The fact is the best DPSers were soloing STFs pre-DR (and still could if it wasn't for lack of DPS now) there is so much survivability thrown around now no DPSer should ever die if they are prepared.
^^ This. Why the game has no solo event, or training dummy for DPS purposes is boggling. Since anyone who comes from another mmo kinda expects it. And would be the only true way to make a "I do 25k DPS" etc. claim.
This is a Team MMO so you can't claim "30k dps build" etc. It's all your build and teamplay.
Which is why I started only parsing and averaging my DPS based off several Pug runs.
1 run I'll parse 24k and barely live without dying, everything is targetting me only. Another ill pug 18-20 and hardly get hit, same piloting skills. Then another ill do 30k. It has everything to do with teamwork and makes DPS claims trivial. And Casuals shouldn't take offense and need to realize that.
These claims are good builds, Teamwork, piloting skills. A good pilot and a good build wont produce the numbers without a good team. These guys have all 3, but these videos are Teamwork videos.
This is the only MMO I have ever played that has a community of people who are like this. A group of people who can watch video proof of something, and then just casually dismiss it. A community full of people who watch a video of someone doing something impressive, and instead of applause...they have their work and effort casually dismissed at " anyone could do that, you aren't good ". Nothing is more insulting to me.
No one brags about "Target Dummy" DPS, because it doesn't MEAN anything. "Hey guys I can do "X" DPS while standing still!!" Who cares, all that matters is your performance in a group, with **** happening around you. Knowing when to use buffs, or avoid mechanics.
When I apply for a top end raiding guild in WoW, I will have some World of Logs links for them to look at. If they used the logic some of you use, they would decline my app, saying " Well your high DPS is only because of bloodlust and anyone is good with bloodlust."
STO seems to be full of people who will find ANYTHING and EVERYTHING wrong with your achievement if it means they don't have to feel inadequate. If you feel the need to discredit an accomplishment, or say some really rude **** like " It's only because of teamplay, anyone can do it " then shut up, and do it. Make a video, upload it, and relish in victory by proving your point, instead of flying a junk "muh playstyle" build, talking down on others accomplishments, and just being a jerk.
I don't understand this. I mean, sure - I want to know that. I want to have target dummies and all the rest to be able to test things. Yadda, yadda, yadda...
...but in the end, our content is group content. It's team content. It's going to be about team composition and everybody working together. So that influence from outside players - well, it's not only something that's going to be there but it's also something that folks should be doing themselves...positively influencing those around them. Cause it's group content.
A bunch of folks out there are handicapping their groups by focusing so much on themselves - not realizing that they could "sacrifice" this or that and actually end up with better numbers.
Because it's not just them...it's the team. The better the team performs, the better they will perform. Group buffs 'n debuffs...etc, etc, etc.
Yeah, sure - I do want the target dummies cause of testing things and just doing that personal little DPS test sort of thing; but in the end - if the content is group content, well...it's group content - and - it's a case of what a person is bringing to the team in a team environment.
I think what some people are trying to say, when it comes to benchmarking dps, is that they prefer a personal rating vs a team wide rating.
I mean as an example, let's say we have a simple warrior armed with some quality gear ok!
Now let's say fighting on his own, using none of his own buffs and just skill alone, he nets some 100dps ok.
Now doing the same theoretical testing, this time he applies his buffs accordingly and, the best results are sitting at 250dps.
Now let's throw in an additional team player, who can either buff the warrior or, de-buff his opponents or, both.
Now the results would show to be improved, in which case our warrior may be parsing some 500dps in the same scenario.
Now, add in another player, who can potentially aid the said warrior to even higher dps with more buffs and, even more de-buffs to the same enemies.
I am not saying what they do, is clearly wrong by any means but, I do tend to see the point of what other's are saying, when they prefer benchmarking based off of solo capability, as opposed to team capability.
My last reply to you buzzed off some of your hair, didn't it?
Far from it, I haven't had a haircut in several months. Would be useful if it had, would save me the ten or twenty pence running an electric razor through it would cost.
I think what some people are trying to say, when it comes to benchmarking dps, is that they prefer a personal rating vs a team wide rating.
I mean as an example, let's say we have a simple warrior armed with some quality gear ok!
Now let's say fighting on his own, using none of his own buffs and just skill alone, he nets some 100dps ok.
Now doing the same theoretical testing, this time he applies his buffs accordingly and, the best results are sitting at 250dps.
Now let's throw in an additional team player, who can either buff the warrior or, de-buff his opponents or, both.
Now the results would show to be improved, in which case our warrior may be parsing some 500dps in the same scenario.
Now, add in another player, who can potentially aid the said warrior to even higher dps with more buffs and, even more de-buffs to the same enemies.
I am not saying what they do, is clearly wrong by any means but, I do tend to see the point of what other's are saying, when they prefer benchmarking based off of solo capability, as opposed to team capability.
Depends - is your content single player or multiplayer? Single player it would just be a nice to know, but in multiplayer teamwork like that is sort of the whole point.
And STO PvE (and, Ker'rat/Cap'n'splode excepted, PvP) is all about teamwork.
I think what some people are trying to say, when it comes to benchmarking dps, is that they prefer a personal rating vs a team wide rating.
I mean as an example, let's say we have a simple warrior armed with some quality gear ok!
Now let's say fighting on his own, using none of his own buffs and just skill alone, he nets some 100dps ok.
Now doing the same theoretical testing, this time he applies his buffs accordingly and, the best results are sitting at 250dps.
Now let's throw in an additional team player, who can either buff the warrior or, de-buff his opponents or, both.
Now the results would show to be improved, in which case our warrior may be parsing some 500dps in the same scenario.
Now, add in another player, who can potentially aid the said warrior to even higher dps with more buffs and, even more de-buffs to the same enemies.
I am not saying what they do, is clearly wrong by any means but, I do tend to see the point of what other's are saying, when they prefer benchmarking based off of solo capability, as opposed to team capability.
But most things worth doing in STO are done in a team setting. If all you do is solo content on normal, then fine. Most people want to do advanced or elite ques, and they ***** when we show them how. We upload a video of us doing Korfez, easily. "Oh it's ONLY because of teamplay and buff stacking, who cares." Then turn around and ***** on the forums about " Korfez is too hard"
I can only see the solo dps thing being valid if everything worth doing was soloable.
unfortunately so.
the trinities origins as a single player mechanic mean that premade teams designed to act as a gestalt unit are much more able to exploit the environment than a group that hasnt had the ability to construct the collective build in such a way regardless of intentions.
that being what got rpg's the "win by calculator, before the map loads" reputation, that competitive gamers shun the genre for.
Yes. It is one good thing about STO's DPS or GTFO meta - the playerbase couldn't cope with an actual trinity to deal with. They can just about manage shooting the right target in an ISN/ISA, and some cannot even do that...
People tout their high DPS and NEVER pay heed to the contributions of the other members on the team that got them to do it. Pay no heed to the Science captain that was out there doing Sensor Scans before people pile on the hurt. But pay no heed to the Grav Well, EMP, Ionic Turbulence someone threw on the NPCs to clump everything, debuff multiple NPCs to make it easier for you. But pay no heed to the ENG that throws EPS Power Transfer your way. But pay no heed to throw heals your way when you needed it to stay live. On and on. Because, you know, waiting for the Respawn button to come up is great for your DPS log.
Your basically wrong on everything. Not what ur saying, but claiming we wouldnt be aware of it. If you watched the video for the full premade runs on ISA 101k or the NX, did you not see the GW's?
The recluses etc.? We use all the abilities which we feel to be the most benefitting to the teams effort. If we find something else to be more useful, we will adapt. And thats the difference, we are not arguing why everything should be different or how everything is overpowered, but actually try to do what is required. (If that requires getting Cannons, Tanks, Healers... it really is all the same to me)
Bring the debuffs you need and compare then, it sets a straight standart for everyone. Do you actually think that at this level of play we are spacebar mashing idiots that don't look at the screen?
Oh wait, that is what you said what you think of us. I guess it truly is all fake dps then, at least that allows for the dismissal of the logs claiming its not real anyways. The 101k was 57k base dps, not counting own beta and FOMM there.
btw. standart setting on simcraft is: all party and raid buffs active, all target debuffs active.
yea, 'cause nobody would be playing the game due to every single mission/quest outside a social zone would force you to team with other players in a preset class ratio, for everything. and nobody is going to put up with that sort of vapid game design any more.
not least because its delusional to expect an international playerbase to all speak the same language. which either fractures your playerbase into little broken pieces, or kills the stupid trinity because the players cant talk.
so, quite right quite right, the playerbase cant handle silly restrictions.:rolleyes:
especially with other games on the market not applying them.
Yep. The fact it is used to ruin some of the IPs most important ships for the sake of lip service to it is also very annoying.
You cannot sincerely deny there is some "showing-off and do you see how good I am (you are)" going on here and some face rubbing like look how good I am and I am better then you attitude. Like people do with cars on the Deutsche Autobahn (German highway) show off how fast they are. And of course one can say then stop whining and work to get a better car too. It's not the car not the driving that the issue, but the attitude.
Logicaly that triggers others to reply. But on the other side, this is only a game, is doing DPS an important achievement? Is it an important value to have as human being? Does it matter? I am happy for the people that feel proud and are full of joy with their ingame achievements like doing DPS. If that is what makes some one happy, oke fine be happy with it.
Posting vids is nice some people enjoy watching it. But no need to be arrogant about it especially if one does not like the reactions from others. Arrogance is mostly a thing others notice. The person who is arrogant often does not even know he/she is percieved as arrogant, maybe that is the issue.
And fyi I enjoyed the vid too (not the bragging about it)
You cannot sincerely deny there is some "showing-off and do you see how good I am (you are)" going on here and some face rubbing like look how good I am and I am better then you attitude. Like people do with cars on the Deutsche Autobahn (German highway) show off how fast they are. And of course one can say then stop whining and work to get a better car too. It's not the car not the driving that the issue, but the attitude.
The difference is, that they are saying "Look what can be done! (ASTERISK)"
The asterisk leading to "And, you can do it too. If you want advice on how, we will give it to you."
If it was showing off and "LOL u noobz" that would be different. But I don't see that. Maybe it's just me?
Comments
What you describe are not realy good team mates imho, because a GOOD team for a record run is a team that supports the one player who is going for the record properly (and a team that has enough dps team wise, to finish ISA quickly, to profit most from the dps caused by stacking), so not by sabotaging the run for own DPS .
Also the people high on the ranking have supported each other in the runs to get high in the rankings. They know each other for long time and protect their place. Do all single outsiders capable of reaching top 15 positions get the same team support, or long weekend runs to try to break the record from this group of intimi, as they have given their friends?
A contest would be: all in the same ships, same setup and see who does most DPS.
^^ This. Why the game has no solo event, or training dummy for DPS purposes is boggling. Since anyone who comes from another mmo kinda expects it. And would be the only true way to make a "I do 25k DPS" etc. claim.
This is a Team MMO so you can't claim "30k dps build" etc. It's all your build and teamplay.
Which is why I started only parsing and averaging my DPS based off several Pug runs.
1 run I'll parse 24k and barely live without dying, everything is targetting me only. Another ill pug 18-20 and hardly get hit, same piloting skills. Then another ill do 30k. It has everything to do with teamwork and makes DPS claims trivial. And Casuals shouldn't take offense and need to realize that.
These claims are good builds, Teamwork, piloting skills. A good pilot and a good build wont produce the numbers without a good team. These guys have all 3, but these videos are Teamwork videos.
Since there's practically no skill rotations in STO dps against training dummies would come down to gear and build only. Player skill would have no effect.
Been doing argala solo each day though, and seems to be a good judge of a build. Although my ships do differently there then I expected. Which is a good point to Casuals. Can't judge a build based off ISA only.
In ISA my JHDC is better then my Karfi. Exactly the oppisite in a solo Argala. My JHDC becomes my slowest ship from start to finish. Karfi having Grav well is a huge boon to pets.
My fastest is the Benthan. but thats T6 with OSS which is sorta the biggest DPS skill to come outta DR IMO.
2nd place is my Avenger. But, sadly too much of the endgame in this game is ISA online to the majority.
I use the Loot-o-matic 3000 on elite since they provide 25 waves of shield-less ships for me to slug all my weapons on. You get to test spike damage with the first ship and from there onward it's a test to see single-target dps really. Although if it's elite, i can't imagine escorts or any squishy ships surviving since they can still hit hard. Im able to survive being a shield-tanking science captain/ship though.
P.S. I also do argala solo, but only when its against kazon and not hirogen/malon lol.
Oh, don't play dumb with me.
It's exactly that Teamwork that carries everyone, and it can vary greatly depending on the people. Most esp so when you PUG it.
Say you do make those super-DPS oriented builds, some of which that I've seen have little to no self-sustainment. Completely dependent on others keeping you alive. If you fly with friends 100% of the time that don't mind keeping you alive and act as your personal live healboat, that's all good. If you ever find yourself in a group that isn't like that, that's a dice roll.
And as I said in my post, people disregard how much other players contribute to the success of a build. And if pieces of those contributions are ever missing, it's not quite the same.
People tout their high DPS and NEVER pay heed to the contributions of the other members on the team that got them to do it. Pay no heed to the Science captain that was out there doing Sensor Scans before people pile on the hurt. But pay no heed to the Grav Well, EMP, Ionic Turbulence someone threw on the NPCs to clump everything, debuff multiple NPCs to make it easier for you. But pay no heed to the ENG that throws EPS Power Transfer your way. But pay no heed to throw heals your way when you needed it to stay live. On and on. Because, you know, waiting for the Respawn button to come up is great for your DPS log.
It's always, "I GOT XXk DPS." Ok. Swell?
If these ingredients are missing, it's just not the same. It just means you've been getting carried; You rely on someone else to cover for your build's shortcomings, to improve it. But if others aren't helping prop you up, it's just not the same.
Don't be so stupid.
No need for us to show it. It's YOU that's talking all the **** about it.
You still gonna get that high DPS?
You want to call me stupid when all you demonstrate is a lack of your own knowledge. Why don't you do some research? Or play with better players.
Here's something for you - if you kill stuff faster, it doesn't have time to shoot you. Number one rule of being a DPSer. And if you have 5 DPSers, stuff really doesn't have time to shoot you.
The fact is the best DPSers were soloing STFs pre-DR (and still could if it wasn't for lack of DPS now) there is so much survivability thrown around now no DPSer should ever die if they are prepared.
But no, instead you want to talk about pugs. I.E. relying on AFKers, outright trolls, people who don't know what they are doing, and very rarely the person who does know what to do. Of course you need to compromise a build for survivability in pugs, you go in assuming you will be the only competent player there, because frequently you are.
Pugging is inherently not the right way to go. Running with a group of players who do is a far better idea.
So, other high DPSers are needed to help carry you? Thanks for proving my point.
Here's the thing. These guys could post the avg of ten runs of Starbase 234. As a minimum to give an estimation of an individual ship's potential.
They aren't interested in benchmarks. They truly aren't. They're about the same as the arena guys that didn't want to admit that an arena build wasn't superior to a pug build. Invariably they would bring 4 friends to the pug ques....And surprise they win! With some unfortunate accidents along the way.
Who saw that coming?
Call teamwork what it is, OP. If you can't, or won't, distinguish between a team approach and team results then how can you be taken seriously? You can't, can you?
There's no need to denigrate what they are doing as it should be obvious to anyone exactly what's going on. It would just be refreshing if they credited it properly.
Just remember, there's a reason they show this specific content. And it isn't cause it's hard.
You're looking at scripted content that's been out for years.
Move along, nothing to see here until the day they accept basic standards and practices.
Come now. That troll post was too obvious. You know you're better than that,
Because it's fun to yank on the bait to see what people do :cool:
No, in an ISE/ISA one takes centre, 2 go left, 2 go right. 4 who went either side take two gens each, whole lot is done in sub-1 minute/2 and a little bit minutes.
But thanks for displaying your lack of knowledge again.
My last reply to you buzzed off some of your hair, didn't it?
They're still soloable, just a pain to get the optionals.
http://youtu.be/nFPwZIYbPdc
This is the only MMO I have ever played that has a community of people who are like this. A group of people who can watch video proof of something, and then just casually dismiss it. A community full of people who watch a video of someone doing something impressive, and instead of applause...they have their work and effort casually dismissed at " anyone could do that, you aren't good ". Nothing is more insulting to me.
No one brags about "Target Dummy" DPS, because it doesn't MEAN anything. "Hey guys I can do "X" DPS while standing still!!" Who cares, all that matters is your performance in a group, with **** happening around you. Knowing when to use buffs, or avoid mechanics.
When I apply for a top end raiding guild in WoW, I will have some World of Logs links for them to look at. If they used the logic some of you use, they would decline my app, saying " Well your high DPS is only because of bloodlust and anyone is good with bloodlust."
STO seems to be full of people who will find ANYTHING and EVERYTHING wrong with your achievement if it means they don't have to feel inadequate. If you feel the need to discredit an accomplishment, or say some really rude **** like " It's only because of teamplay, anyone can do it " then shut up, and do it. Make a video, upload it, and relish in victory by proving your point, instead of flying a junk "muh playstyle" build, talking down on others accomplishments, and just being a jerk.
I think what some people are trying to say, when it comes to benchmarking dps, is that they prefer a personal rating vs a team wide rating.
I mean as an example, let's say we have a simple warrior armed with some quality gear ok!
Now let's say fighting on his own, using none of his own buffs and just skill alone, he nets some 100dps ok.
Now doing the same theoretical testing, this time he applies his buffs accordingly and, the best results are sitting at 250dps.
Now let's throw in an additional team player, who can either buff the warrior or, de-buff his opponents or, both.
Now the results would show to be improved, in which case our warrior may be parsing some 500dps in the same scenario.
Now, add in another player, who can potentially aid the said warrior to even higher dps with more buffs and, even more de-buffs to the same enemies.
I am not saying what they do, is clearly wrong by any means but, I do tend to see the point of what other's are saying, when they prefer benchmarking based off of solo capability, as opposed to team capability.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Far from it, I haven't had a haircut in several months. Would be useful if it had, would save me the ten or twenty pence running an electric razor through it would cost.
Depends - is your content single player or multiplayer? Single player it would just be a nice to know, but in multiplayer teamwork like that is sort of the whole point.
And STO PvE (and, Ker'rat/Cap'n'splode excepted, PvP) is all about teamwork.
But most things worth doing in STO are done in a team setting. If all you do is solo content on normal, then fine. Most people want to do advanced or elite ques, and they ***** when we show them how. We upload a video of us doing Korfez, easily. "Oh it's ONLY because of teamplay and buff stacking, who cares." Then turn around and ***** on the forums about " Korfez is too hard"
I can only see the solo dps thing being valid if everything worth doing was soloable.
Yes. It is one good thing about STO's DPS or GTFO meta - the playerbase couldn't cope with an actual trinity to deal with. They can just about manage shooting the right target in an ISN/ISA, and some cannot even do that...
Your basically wrong on everything. Not what ur saying, but claiming we wouldnt be aware of it. If you watched the video for the full premade runs on ISA 101k or the NX, did you not see the GW's?
The recluses etc.? We use all the abilities which we feel to be the most benefitting to the teams effort. If we find something else to be more useful, we will adapt. And thats the difference, we are not arguing why everything should be different or how everything is overpowered, but actually try to do what is required. (If that requires getting Cannons, Tanks, Healers... it really is all the same to me)
Bring the debuffs you need and compare then, it sets a straight standart for everyone. Do you actually think that at this level of play we are spacebar mashing idiots that don't look at the screen?
Oh wait, that is what you said what you think of us. I guess it truly is all fake dps then, at least that allows for the dismissal of the logs claiming its not real anyways. The 101k was 57k base dps, not counting own beta and FOMM there.
btw. standart setting on simcraft is: all party and raid buffs active, all target debuffs active.
Yep. The fact it is used to ruin some of the IPs most important ships for the sake of lip service to it is also very annoying.
Good figures though.
Logicaly that triggers others to reply. But on the other side, this is only a game, is doing DPS an important achievement? Is it an important value to have as human being? Does it matter? I am happy for the people that feel proud and are full of joy with their ingame achievements like doing DPS. If that is what makes some one happy, oke fine be happy with it.
Posting vids is nice some people enjoy watching it. But no need to be arrogant about it especially if one does not like the reactions from others. Arrogance is mostly a thing others notice. The person who is arrogant often does not even know he/she is percieved as arrogant, maybe that is the issue.
And fyi I enjoyed the vid too (not the bragging about it)
Ryan is a Reisigb
The difference is, that they are saying "Look what can be done! (ASTERISK)"
The asterisk leading to "And, you can do it too. If you want advice on how, we will give it to you."
If it was showing off and "LOL u noobz" that would be different. But I don't see that. Maybe it's just me?
Topic titel -> More Wizardry from the Incredible Ryan.
It does not say: You can do this too, we can help you If you want (or something like that).