No you really do need to just read, not post for awhile!
And I did read every post, but yours seem to serve no useful purpose at all! the devs don't listen to your ideas or the ideas from anyone else!
Zeus
I would say that post is equally as valuable as mindless rhetoric involving not giving Cryptic money, wishing CBS would pull the license, and no small amount of doooooom.
Cryptic, you guys are funny. Where did you get the idea that hangar units and separation units were OP and needed nerfing?
There's a slew of hangar units that are too flimsy and underperform, and would have issue taking down targets Pre-DR.
But now after DR? With NPCs having much higher shields and hull? You're going to nerf hangar units and separation units?
I also want to put out the uselessness of these separation units. The AI is horrible for them, they barely do anything in combat, and you can count on them getting disabled within a minute (if even that) of you launching them. And they're getting nerfed?
Post-DR, I have felt Carriers and their hangar units were in a very delicate situation. With the stronger NPCs, esp at Advanced and Elite settings, they were very close to being obsolete. And now you guys want to nerf them?
Instead of constructive criticism most of what I see in this thread is simply toxic rhetoric.
This is the kind of thing that gets the people in the forums called morons to begin with.
I've tried being constructive. Remember the fleet escort revamp where they updated a ship I purchased and then refused to offer even a discounted version because well it was a new ship so if I wanted the new hotness I had to pay full price.
Now T6 and T5U rolled out. You were a bit prophetic in that old thread where you hypothesized they would want everyone to rebuy all the ships at some point. On the plus side, and a bit ironic, if I upgrade my FPE it grows a tail gun.
No sorry. At this point in my eyes Cryptic is so out of touch with the actual game any constructive feedback I could offer would likely not make any sense to them. My communication skills are a bit lacking as well unfortunately but you get what you pay for. They don't understand how the DPS guys manage to do what they do. They missed a, and I'm quoting loosely here, an 'exploit' that was open discussed on their own forums for a week, on the test server for who knows how long, in game quite a bit, and even on a twitch stream something they have been trying to get more of out there. Or they didn't realize some players can kill ships 17x faster than average either one is pretty damning.
They create the 'thing'. But they don't use the 'thing'. How can you fix the 'thing' to be enjoyed by the user if you are not a 'user'?
The justifications and implementations for many design decisions also demonstrate a lack of understanding on the impact of those decisions or the reasons why the same things work for other games. Like the level cap increase. Like the 'difficulty' increase. Like this being a priority.
The forums purpose now days is to rant, and to be entertained by others ranting. Tribble exists to find the next 'exploit' to enjoy for a few weeks until it is fixed. And STO development is a method to make as much money as humanly possible at a low cost.
And I'm curious because I have always respected your opinion as that of a fair but a touch cynical community member what would your review of Delta Rising look like?
Oh, they want it... but they're not going to wait for you to give it away freely. Theyr'e going to sneak in, hide in your closet and when you think you're alone and safe....they're going to pin you down and take it from you.
That joke was about classy as a Risian/Orion lovechild sitting in a bed with a ferengi
And I'm curious because I have always respected your opinion as that of a fair but a touch cynical community member what would your review of Delta Rising look like?
My review of DR was already given. And I did not like most of it. I made no secret of my displeasure of it. I also attempted to give constructive criticism over what I did not like about DR as well, and my feedback was not acted upon. Which is not unusual, and something I accept as a possibility. But I miss 100% of the shots I do not make.
But when it comes to video games I play that are in continuing development (like MMOs), I look at things on a case-by-case basis. It is the only way to get anything productive done.
I mention when I think Cryptic makes bad calls, and I mention it when I think they make good calls.
I think this nerf has the potential of being a good call if carrier pets are more likely to avoid destructable torps, mines, and warp core breaches... and undine snot bubbles and the Voth... well whatever it is that more or less means my pets are never out around them.
Which in my opinion means an increase in pet speed.
But if not, then yes, I find this has the potential to be a bad call. But that is what constructive criticism is all about.
My review of DR was already given. And I did not like most of it. I made no secret of my displeasure of it. I also attempted to give constructive criticism over what I did not like about DR as well, and my feedback was not acted upon. Which is not unusual, and something I accept as a possibility. But I miss 100% of the shots I do not make.
But when it comes to video games I play that are in continuing development (like MMOs), I look at things on a case-by-case basis. It is the only way to get anything productive done.
I mention when I think Cryptic makes bad calls, and I mention it when I think they make good calls.
I think this nerf has the potential of being a good call if carrier pets are more likely to avoid destructable torps, mines, and warp core breaches... and undine snot bubbles and the Voth... well whatever it is that more or less means my pets are never out around them.
Which in my opinion means an increase in pet speed.
But if not, then yes, I find this has the potential to be a bad call. But that is what constructive criticism is all about.
I must have missed it then no big deal. I don't understand why they never just gave pets a really high kinetic resist (like aceton things to energy) and called it a day. Sure it might have unintended effects in PvP and some corner cases would still exist but it would be quick and mostly effective.
First of all - thankyou for telling us about the incoming changes. You didn't have to and it builds trust, given that recent changes were contradictory to what was posted here.
My review of DR was already given. And I did not like most of it. I made no secret of my displeasure of it. I also attempted to give constructive criticism over what I did not like about DR as well, and my feedback was not acted upon. Which is not unusual, and something I accept as a possibility. But I miss 100% of the shots I do not make.
But when it comes to video games I play that are in continuing development (like MMOs), I look at things on a case-by-case basis. It is the only way to get anything productive done.
I mention when I think Cryptic makes bad calls, and I mention it when I think they make good calls.
I think this nerf has the potential of being a good call if carrier pets are more likely to avoid destructable torps, mines, and warp core breaches... and undine snot bubbles and the Voth... well whatever it is that more or less means my pets are never out around them.
Which in my opinion means an increase in pet speed.
But if not, then yes, I find this has the potential to be a bad call. But that is what constructive criticism is all about.
And you think that lizard is going to listen to you? How often do you want to be ignored until you stop being constructive?
Maybe I am just not as good a person as you are (I don't mean to insult you :P )
I would say that post is equally as valuable as mindless rhetoric involving not giving Cryptic money, wishing CBS would pull the license, and no small amount of doooooom.
And your posts mean anymore than anyone else's? No they are just your opinion, that's all just your opinion. Just because you post it does not make it count anymore than anyone else on the forums dude!
So again just read the forums, you don't seem to have any "constructive" criticism in you, just worthless words of something best flushed down the toilet!
So to keep with the sprit of Nerfing, I am just going to consider your posts as "Nerfing" any intelligent thought anyone else has!
but i am not sure i see a reason to do this i dont have your numbers gecko but my vesta and its pets are highly dusty.
my opinion of pets has always been that they are addative dps onto the ships themselves while some are larger additions then others nerfing the whole basket at once?
i caution you to think critically about this nerf gecko
Ohhhhhhhhh.... i think there is a very good chance of that happening when the central CBS licenses go up for renewal at the end of 2015. I think PWE and Cryptic are trying for a cash grab incase CBS slams the door in their face. There is a very slim chance it will happen...but history has a habit of repeating itself in the trek game franchise...
Interplay - Makers of the Starfleet Command Series up to SFC 2-Orion Pirates. Company was sliding downhill.. Paramount/CBS took the license from them.
Microprose - Makers of Birth Of the Federation. Company started releasing lacklustre games as a cash grab. Paramount took the license from them just before Microprose went bankrupt.
Simon and Schuster - Makers of "Borg" and other interactive CD's/DVD's. Gave up the license back to Paramount because Paramount refused to renew it.
Activision - Makers of Star Trek Armada, Elite Force, Bridge Commander. Had to SUE CBS to get outof the contract because CBS stonewalled Activision when CBS seen they had started releasing lacklustre games.
Bethesda Softworks - Makers of Star Trek: Legacy. Yeah... that fell apart very quick....
Perpetual Entertainment/P2 - Makers of the original Star Trek Online before it was held to Cryptic. CBS pulled the plug on that one after Perpetual went under and when P2 went under CBS held the license up for tender. Cryptic got it.
Yes...the now almost 30 years history of Star Trek gaming is FULL of repeat cycles.
My heart just pounded really hard for hope right there when you said CBS could give the license to another company in 2015.
[SIGPIC] [/SIGPIC]
I will always choose a lazy person to do a difficult job...
I am on the fence about this. I am saddened that pets may in fact be nerfed, as they are fragile enough anyways. I'm especially saddened to see the separation pets and frigates included in this list. These pets, in my opinion, should be fairly hardy and able to take a beating.
I understand that they may have been using incorrect data, but I would like to see a little bit of time spent improving pets overall. Perhaps some fixes to pet AI to help them avoid warp core explosions, etc. If the AI can't be helped, perhaps a resistance to those factors that contribute to pet destruction the most. Obviously with exception to player and npc directed damage, but again towards core explosions, targetable torps, etc.
The purpose of a carrier is to do damage with its support craft, and perhaps this is where the issue lies. Ships like the Jem Dreadnought and Xindi Narcine are capable of doing considerable damage on their own. I fear that Cryptic may instead focus on designing carriers that do damage as a ship, and less so as a carrier. It's cool flying Vestas and Gal-X's that launch pets, but their purpose is not to use support craft as a main source of damage, that is the role of the carrier.
Ideally, and this would probably be difficult to implement but potentially a lot of fun, I would like to see players be able to command carrier groups- the player pilots the carrier, launching support craft and fighters, with bridge officers commanding ships as part of the group. The players role would shift from dealing direct damage, to managing the different vessels for maximum effectiveness. Of course there would be lots more to work out, but this is neither the time nor place for that discussion.
Anyhow, I hope that this patch will herald in an improvement of the carrier/pet system overall, and not just a nerf.
Geko, you're not fixing pets; you're making them worse. The pet AI is so bad that my pets will stay near ships about to go critical and they almost always die. Ask yourself this one question: does this fix ensure that pets can survive breaches better or will it make it worse? If it fails that standard, don't fix anything until you find something that does.
Cryptic, you guys are funny. Where did you get the idea that hangar units and separation units were OP and needed nerfing?
Even before DR...did you ever parse Xindi Frigates or Scimitar Drones? Compared to other pets...heh, where often a single hangar of other pets would do better than than half the group in a PUG...the Xindi and Drones would just make other pets look like cottonballs being thrown against the wind at a brick wall.
We will be making some changes to Carrier Pets (e.g. Peregrine Fighters, To'Duj Fighter, Klingon Bird of Prey Pets, etc.), separation pets (like a Galaxy separated saucer, MVAM Pets, and TalKyr Support craft, etc.), as well as similarly related pets (like the Odyssey Work Bees, consumable device Scorpion Fighters, Gorn Healing Platform Drones, etc.). All these items are leveless items and all these pets were using incorrect data that was causing their HP, shields, damage and healing to be too high. In some cases, the sum of the players pets were far outperforming the players ship itself. The HP, shields, damage, healing and related values for these pets are all being reduced to scale more consistently with other player gear.
Pets that are not affected are those that deal damage based on the player, instead of independent data. Changing these pets would have no affect since they are already using player data (e.g. Andorian Wing Cannons, Avenger VATA torpedo, Bio-neural Warhead, etc.).
This change only affects pets, and not the playable versions of any of these ships (e.g. the playable Jem Hadar Attack Ship and Danube Runabout are not affected).
Here is a complete list of all pets that are affected. If a pet is missed, it is probably a mistake. Please let us know, and we will look into it.
Look for this change to go live to Holodeck in about 2-3 weeks.
LLAP
Al Captain Geko Rivera
This needs to be reexamined. My Very Rare hanger pets die when another ship looks at them. I have seen no evidence that they are outperforming my ship or OP at level 60. In fact I feel as if they are underperforming as they die almost instantly when engaging an enemy.:mad: Another slap to the face of the customer. Thank you for this. Most likely motivated by greed for something coming later or the few PVP people that still exist getting their way at the expense of PVE people as usual.
And you think that lizard is going to listen to you? How often do you want to be ignored until you stop being constructive?
Maybe I am just not as good a person as you are (I don't mean to insult you :P )
And calling other forum members 'lizards' is not at all toxic, right?
Personally, getting a little tired of people running around the forum with a halo around their head, always judging others. The 'Holier than thou' act is wearing thin fast!
And you think that lizard is going to listen to you? How often do you want to be ignored until you stop being constructive?
Maybe I am just not as good a person as you are (I don't mean to insult you :P )
Because I'm not always ignored. Sometimes my feedback has been acted upon.
I can either take the gamble of providing constructive feedback and hope it is acted upon in a meaningful way (even if I don't get 100% of what I desire).
Or I can just scream till I'm blue in the face about how I hope CBS kills Star Trek Online and Cryptic hates me and I'll stop giving them money forevers and evers.
One of these options has the possibility (no matter how slim) of being beneficial in some way.
And calling other forum members 'lizards' is not at all toxic, right?
Personally, getting a little tired of people running around the forum with a halo around their head, always judging others. The 'Holier than thou' act is wearing thin fast!
I mean Geko. I think Geckos are lizards. Dunno. Just my name for him.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but being carriers are usually SLOWER and not as strong as say an escort or crusier, are the pets on there to fill in the mothership's gaps? Meaning, say that a Galaxy Dreadnought is getting attacked from the rear, and the shields are out there. Is it not the pet's job to defend that flank? So on THAT logic, how much sense does it make to nerf them if they're stronger than the actual ship? THEY SHOULD BE, BEING THEY ARE REALLY THERE FOR THE DEFENSE OF YOUR SHIP!
Just my opinion...as well as the opinion of every other player of this game.
Good, honestly allot of stuff needs a nerf right now. Nerf Tacs, Romulans, Scimitars, FAW, beta stacking, critd, crith, damage resists, the list goes on. Nerf it all to the ground.
Yeah, I fly a Fleet Armitage and I'm miffed.
I can't imagine what it would be like if I regularly flew a full-carrier.
Some ships being out damaged by their pets?
Isn't that what a description of what a carrier is supposed to be?
Might as well say that its weird the beams on my Armitage are outdamaging my pets and nerf them!
As it is, in between the warp core breaches, AOE spam and those undine bubble things I have to constantly relaunch my Yellowstones.
They have to have higher HP because they don't react like players and avoid hazards.
Damage wise, my elite scorps under near optimal conditions do about 2,000 dps.
If a player's guns are doing less than about 5,000 dps that's a problem with the player not the pets.
If it's just something like elite romulan drones giving problems, then why are you nerfing EVERYTHING?
You aren't fooling many with this whole "Wrong Values" thing, those you are just think you're incompetent coders for getting two sets of "Wrong Values" to the live server.
I read the title "Upcoming changes" and thought maybe this meant they were going to fix the wonky pet controls and AI (I hit recall, why are you still outside the ship 20 seconds later?), and maybe help them survive a bit better. This isn't "changes" but rather "fixes." Disappointed.
The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke.
They were treating carrier pets as NPC's the whole time, and only in DR did this become a problem, since even in Normal the NPC's are attrocious. I would hope this means a nerf to the NPC carrier pets too, but I figure it won't. They wouldn't need to nerf player pets if the NPC stats weren't so ridiculous to begin with, since they match. Why does a NPC frigate (heck, a carrier pet version of a raider) have more HP than my carrier, on NORMAL? It's only fair that the NPC frigates that I sorta control should be the same.
Comments
I would say that post is equally as valuable as mindless rhetoric involving not giving Cryptic money, wishing CBS would pull the license, and no small amount of doooooom.
There's a slew of hangar units that are too flimsy and underperform, and would have issue taking down targets Pre-DR.
But now after DR? With NPCs having much higher shields and hull? You're going to nerf hangar units and separation units?
I also want to put out the uselessness of these separation units. The AI is horrible for them, they barely do anything in combat, and you can count on them getting disabled within a minute (if even that) of you launching them. And they're getting nerfed?
Post-DR, I have felt Carriers and their hangar units were in a very delicate situation. With the stronger NPCs, esp at Advanced and Elite settings, they were very close to being obsolete. And now you guys want to nerf them?
I've tried being constructive. Remember the fleet escort revamp where they updated a ship I purchased and then refused to offer even a discounted version because well it was a new ship so if I wanted the new hotness I had to pay full price.
Now T6 and T5U rolled out. You were a bit prophetic in that old thread where you hypothesized they would want everyone to rebuy all the ships at some point. On the plus side, and a bit ironic, if I upgrade my FPE it grows a tail gun.
No sorry. At this point in my eyes Cryptic is so out of touch with the actual game any constructive feedback I could offer would likely not make any sense to them. My communication skills are a bit lacking as well unfortunately but you get what you pay for. They don't understand how the DPS guys manage to do what they do. They missed a, and I'm quoting loosely here, an 'exploit' that was open discussed on their own forums for a week, on the test server for who knows how long, in game quite a bit, and even on a twitch stream something they have been trying to get more of out there. Or they didn't realize some players can kill ships 17x faster than average either one is pretty damning.
They create the 'thing'. But they don't use the 'thing'. How can you fix the 'thing' to be enjoyed by the user if you are not a 'user'?
The justifications and implementations for many design decisions also demonstrate a lack of understanding on the impact of those decisions or the reasons why the same things work for other games. Like the level cap increase. Like the 'difficulty' increase. Like this being a priority.
The forums purpose now days is to rant, and to be entertained by others ranting. Tribble exists to find the next 'exploit' to enjoy for a few weeks until it is fixed. And STO development is a method to make as much money as humanly possible at a low cost.
And I'm curious because I have always respected your opinion as that of a fair but a touch cynical community member what would your review of Delta Rising look like?
Scorpion Fighter
Tholian Weaver
Just saying...
Click to Join armadafleet.org/
That joke was about classy as a Risian/Orion lovechild sitting in a bed with a ferengi
My review of DR was already given. And I did not like most of it. I made no secret of my displeasure of it. I also attempted to give constructive criticism over what I did not like about DR as well, and my feedback was not acted upon. Which is not unusual, and something I accept as a possibility. But I miss 100% of the shots I do not make.
But when it comes to video games I play that are in continuing development (like MMOs), I look at things on a case-by-case basis. It is the only way to get anything productive done.
I mention when I think Cryptic makes bad calls, and I mention it when I think they make good calls.
I think this nerf has the potential of being a good call if carrier pets are more likely to avoid destructable torps, mines, and warp core breaches... and undine snot bubbles and the Voth... well whatever it is that more or less means my pets are never out around them.
Which in my opinion means an increase in pet speed.
But if not, then yes, I find this has the potential to be a bad call. But that is what constructive criticism is all about.
Free Tibet!
Click to Join armadafleet.org/
DELTA RISING FIXS THERE NEVER COMING WHY I'M I WASTING MY TIME ASKING FOR THEM ???
I must have missed it then no big deal. I don't understand why they never just gave pets a really high kinetic resist (like aceton things to energy) and called it a day. Sure it might have unintended effects in PvP and some corner cases would still exist but it would be quick and mostly effective.
Thanks for the warning.
And you think that lizard is going to listen to you? How often do you want to be ignored until you stop being constructive?
Maybe I am just not as good a person as you are (I don't mean to insult you :P )
And your posts mean anymore than anyone else's? No they are just your opinion, that's all just your opinion. Just because you post it does not make it count anymore than anyone else on the forums dude!
So again just read the forums, you don't seem to have any "constructive" criticism in you, just worthless words of something best flushed down the toilet!
So to keep with the sprit of Nerfing, I am just going to consider your posts as "Nerfing" any intelligent thought anyone else has!
Zeus
but i am not sure i see a reason to do this i dont have your numbers gecko but my vesta and its pets are highly dusty.
my opinion of pets has always been that they are addative dps onto the ships themselves while some are larger additions then others nerfing the whole basket at once?
i caution you to think critically about this nerf gecko
My heart just pounded really hard for hope right there when you said CBS could give the license to another company in 2015.
...because he will find an easy way to do it.
-Bill Gates
I understand that they may have been using incorrect data, but I would like to see a little bit of time spent improving pets overall. Perhaps some fixes to pet AI to help them avoid warp core explosions, etc. If the AI can't be helped, perhaps a resistance to those factors that contribute to pet destruction the most. Obviously with exception to player and npc directed damage, but again towards core explosions, targetable torps, etc.
The purpose of a carrier is to do damage with its support craft, and perhaps this is where the issue lies. Ships like the Jem Dreadnought and Xindi Narcine are capable of doing considerable damage on their own. I fear that Cryptic may instead focus on designing carriers that do damage as a ship, and less so as a carrier. It's cool flying Vestas and Gal-X's that launch pets, but their purpose is not to use support craft as a main source of damage, that is the role of the carrier.
Ideally, and this would probably be difficult to implement but potentially a lot of fun, I would like to see players be able to command carrier groups- the player pilots the carrier, launching support craft and fighters, with bridge officers commanding ships as part of the group. The players role would shift from dealing direct damage, to managing the different vessels for maximum effectiveness. Of course there would be lots more to work out, but this is neither the time nor place for that discussion.
Anyhow, I hope that this patch will herald in an improvement of the carrier/pet system overall, and not just a nerf.
STO Beta Test and Launch Veteran
Even before DR...did you ever parse Xindi Frigates or Scimitar Drones? Compared to other pets...heh, where often a single hangar of other pets would do better than than half the group in a PUG...the Xindi and Drones would just make other pets look like cottonballs being thrown against the wind at a brick wall.
This needs to be reexamined. My Very Rare hanger pets die when another ship looks at them. I have seen no evidence that they are outperforming my ship or OP at level 60. In fact I feel as if they are underperforming as they die almost instantly when engaging an enemy.:mad: Another slap to the face of the customer. Thank you for this. Most likely motivated by greed for something coming later or the few PVP people that still exist getting their way at the expense of PVE people as usual.
Scans for intelligent life
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4-rYlw1rRI
And calling other forum members 'lizards' is not at all toxic, right?
Personally, getting a little tired of people running around the forum with a halo around their head, always judging others. The 'Holier than thou' act is wearing thin fast!
Because I'm not always ignored. Sometimes my feedback has been acted upon.
I can either take the gamble of providing constructive feedback and hope it is acted upon in a meaningful way (even if I don't get 100% of what I desire).
Or I can just scream till I'm blue in the face about how I hope CBS kills Star Trek Online and Cryptic hates me and I'll stop giving them money forevers and evers.
One of these options has the possibility (no matter how slim) of being beneficial in some way.
The other option does not.
It is not complicated.
I mean Geko. I think Geckos are lizards. Dunno. Just my name for him.
Just my opinion...as well as the opinion of every other player of this game.
Upload starts now!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nO7dmsSN6w&t=40m34s
Yeah, I fly a Fleet Armitage and I'm miffed.
I can't imagine what it would be like if I regularly flew a full-carrier.
Some ships being out damaged by their pets?
Isn't that what a description of what a carrier is supposed to be?
Might as well say that its weird the beams on my Armitage are outdamaging my pets and nerf them!
As it is, in between the warp core breaches, AOE spam and those undine bubble things I have to constantly relaunch my Yellowstones.
They have to have higher HP because they don't react like players and avoid hazards.
Damage wise, my elite scorps under near optimal conditions do about 2,000 dps.
If a player's guns are doing less than about 5,000 dps that's a problem with the player not the pets.
If it's just something like elite romulan drones giving problems, then why are you nerfing EVERYTHING?
You aren't fooling many with this whole "Wrong Values" thing, those you are just think you're incompetent coders for getting two sets of "Wrong Values" to the live server.
The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke.