so.... 17x higher xp than other content in the game
I highly question that you as developer know your game meanwhile.... really
There are missions in this game that reward enough skill points that if you multiply that by 17 you would have easily again 2 level ups with one japori run
On the other side there is the majority of missions (after you nerfed the rewards) where 17xthe skill points wouldnt even be enough to fill one bar of the level.
This disingenuous 17x nonsense needs to be dispelled, once and for all.
If I do 22k, and someone else across the map does only 1k, then I'm going 22x faster than elsewhere. And, naturally, being in a team makes you finish the map faster too. Duh! None of that should count towards alleged 'exploitative behavior.'
NPC's, on Elite, were paying out 5x, instead of 2x the amount of XP. So, at the very most, ppl were leveling 2.5x faster. Tops.
This disingenuous 17x nonsense needs to be dispelled, once and for all.
If I do 22k, and someone else across the map does only 1k, then I'm going 22x faster than elsewhere. And, naturally, being in a team makes you finish the map faster too. Duh! None of that should count towards alleged 'exploitative behavior.'
NPC's, on Elite, were paying out 5x, instead of 2x the amount of XP. So, at the very most, ppl were leveling 2.5x faster. Tops.
Yup. I am absolutely sure they used the "statistics can prove anything" rule so they have a nice little example they can trot out, but practically speaking, it's still silliness.
Yeah, further in my post I also state that I think the code they wrote to take punitive action against the "exploiters" is broken, and it affected a lot more folks than they intended. I also don't think they have any intention of returning any of the xp they took as they don't have to do anything on their end to show they were wrong.
"You were exploiting because we said you were exploiting". That's all they have to do.
Is it right? No. But that's how it's set up.
A few folks who decide to take the time and keep hammering at their "customer service" might, just might get lucky and get their points back just to make them go away, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
Me neither. But at least for a while, I'll try to get justice. (Well that sounded grandiose. :P )
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
"tomorrow, will I log in and find my toon is half the Level of today, in a worse ship, with different equipment?" is a question we don't ask, and only because of this rule.
I must say I've had that question floating around in my mind since this all went down. Sad, really.
there is a simple principle applied in almost all countries on this planet
-> not guilty until the guilt is proven
aswell as there is the principle of cause any reaction
cause was the incompetence of the developers to fix this reported problem prior releasing the season and cause also was the great imbalance since the delta rising release
fact is the developers can decide to ignore us and blame us for their own mistakes
but we as players can also play this dirty game and simply stop to buy anything from c-store... we can cancel our subscriptions
we can learn from this incident and stop supporting the developers
nobody of us needs to test on tribble in future given the fact that our reports are ignored anyways
the developers say that we should have known this had been an exploit?
how?
It was a reported problem on tribble and since it was not fixed it is just logical to assume that the developer didnt see any problems with it... therefore it was no exploit... it was legit gameplay
I keep saying it. It was the lack of interest in DR that drove the Devs to react this way. Nothing in particular that was being done in Tau Dewa/Japori other then being there in mass rather then in DQ.
Every Dev that has commented on this subject has given us all different stories as to what was actually being done that was an 'exploit'. And Im sure they will claim they didnt have all the facts....And that just begs the question. Why were you commenting on something you had no business commenting on?
If you notice. There hasnt been any new reactions from the Devs and thats because a lot of people got the message loud and clear and went back to DR. Enough to satisfy their need to show off their new shiny expansion and claim its 'such' a success.
This is why we cant trust these Devs anymore. They have no integrity, and this reaction is to Tau Dewa is a clear as day sign. Just as much as their reaction to Tribble Reports. Its no longer about giving the player what they want. Its about creating a system that gets under the skin of a player, a player that seeks to complete objectives and optionals, by denying them the opportunity to complete something without weeks or months of grinding or opening their wallet. They know psychologically that many players are driven to complete things. And if they hold it just out of reach long enough theres a very high chance we'll give in and pay to have it.
And that is what DR is all about. Holding things just out of reach. It wasnt enough that they make a killing off of CStore Ships, it wasnt enough that theyre racking in millions off of a gambling mechanic in the Lockboxes they have. No they need to make MOAR. They dont see us as a playerbase anymore. They see us as Groves of MoneyBag Trees ripe and ready to be picked.
Yeah the let's-delete-exploration-so-they-play-queues-like-we-want-them-to concept has the opposite effect on me.
I have zero problems never playing a dil-nerfed-queue ever again, live and let die I guess
I'm not doing stf's either anymore, not even battlezones since they're stuck at lvl 50 (lol)..
I just log in to do doffs and chat with the occasional r&d for mk 2 critDx3 beams
Yeah the let's-delete-exploration-so-they-play-queues-like-we-want-them-to concept has the opposite effect on me.
I used to miss exploration. Now I miss them twice as much. At least they would've been a lot more varied than running the same patrols over and over again.
Gonna own up to it Stephen? Or just ignore and watch your game crash and burn?
They're going to ignore it. No real choice. If D'Angelo were to admit he wronged ppl, he'd lose face. And if the Devs admitted to such, they'd have to get rid of their leader. Neither of the two is going to happen, of course.
Nevertheless, D'Angelo did plenty damage, that no form of inaction on their end can hope to undo.
Not gonna happen. Why? who would enforce it? Actual governments don't care about your digital stuff.
Maybe in the US in many places but it will eventually happen as more and more services are becoming digital as well as products being offered. It is just that it takes the courts a long time to catch up with tech and commerce.
If you are looking for an excellent PvE fleet consider: Omega Combat Division today.
Former member of the Cryptic Family & FriendsTesting Team. Sadly, one day, it simply vanished - without a word or trace...
They're going to ignore it. No real choice. If D'Angelo were to admit he wronged ppl, he'd lose face. And if the Devs admitted to such, they'd have to get rid of their leader. Neither of the two is going to happen, of course.
Nevertheless, D'Angelo did plenty damage, that no form of inaction on their end can hope to undo.
It's better to be thought an idiot than to open your mouth and prove it to everyone.
Seventeen times faster than.... than what? Faster than the average solo 5k dps player who takes coffee breaks between runs? Faster than your spreadsheet optimizing whale milking predicted?
Rather than putting water on the fire, your gasoline now has the forums burning seventeen times hotter.
You have been punishing loyal and paying players for mistakes that YOU have done. You have punished players randomly even if they never used the exploit and you have broken the trust with the players.
This is rich.
Okay, so it seems you are accusing D'Angelo of being either:
A) Maniacally Evil and/or Completely Insane
He seems to me to be able to hold down a job and otherwise function normally in society, so I don't know what evidence you have of this. But the behavior of which you're accusing he and the other devs is completely irrational.
Why on earth would anyone in any business punish loyal paying customers? Why on earth would anyone punish customers randomly and for no reason?
There is no reason. And since D'Angelo is not a raving, drooling maniac, the only possible answer to this is that you are completely and utterly wrong.
For your side to be right, all involved Cryptic and PWE executives have to be insane. For the other side to be right...you and some other folks took advantage of (i.e. exploited...look up the definition of the word) a bug, got caught doing, and lost what you gained by it.
Simple logic, Occam's Razor, says that the devs are right on this one.
Okay, so it seems you are accusing D'Angelo of being either:
A) Maniacally Evil and/or Completely Insane
He seems to me to be able to hold down a job and otherwise function normally in society, so I don't know what evidence you have of this. But the behavior of which you're accusing he and the other devs is completely irrational.
Why on earth would anyone in any business punish loyal paying customers? Why on earth would anyone punish customers randomly and for no reason?
There is no reason. And since D'Angelo is not a raving, drooling maniac, the only possible answer to this is that you are completely and utterly wrong.
For your side to be right, all involved Cryptic and PWE executives have to be insane. For the other side to be right...you and some other folks took advantage of (i.e. exploited...look up the definition of the word) a bug, got caught doing, and lost what you gained by it.
Simple logic, Occam's Razor, says that the devs are right on this one.
Bogus reductio ad absurdum. In the real world, companies have *every* reason to cover up their mistakes. Produce a car that has a number of gas tanks that explode spontaneously?! Cover it up! Produce iPhones that have a metal rim that can short-cut? Deny! Have an EP that made a severe judgement in error?! Well, you figure this one out on your own.
Have an EP that made a severe judgement in error?! Well, you figure this one out on your own.
So, your response to, "D'Angelo would have to be maniacally evil and/or insane to do that of which you are accusing him" is essentially, "Yes, he's an evil maniac and the rest of the company are all covering for him"?
Okay, so it seems you are accusing D'Angelo of being either:
A) Maniacally Evil and/or Completely Insane
He seems to me to be able to hold down a job and otherwise function normally in society, so I don't know what evidence you have of this. But the behavior of which you're accusing he and the other devs is completely irrational.
Why on earth would anyone in any business punish loyal paying customers? Why on earth would anyone punish customers randomly and for no reason?
There is no reason. And since D'Angelo is not a raving, drooling maniac, the only possible answer to this is that you are completely and utterly wrong.
For your side to be right, all involved Cryptic and PWE executives have to be insane. For the other side to be right...you and some other folks took advantage of (i.e. exploited...look up the definition of the word) a bug, got caught doing, and lost what you gained by it.
Simple logic, Occam's Razor, says that the devs are right on this one.
Wait a second, you beleive that:
A) Cryptic were made aware of a bug in tribble and chose not to fix it they then hot patched the bug and used a blanket spec point drain algorithm without properly evaluating it's consequences, and
C) Called the whole playerbase cheaters, then came back with a really weak, vague and self-serving apology in an attempt to save face
Requires fewer assumptions than:
A) the majority of players weren't aware that 5X stronger enemies were not supposed to give 5X more EXP?
...i think you need to re-evaluate the principle of Occam's Razor.
Real Temporal Operative: Purchased the Special Temporal Agent pack before it was even officially announced!
So, your response to, "D'Angelo would have to be maniacally evil and/or insane to do that of which you are accusing him" is essentially, "Yes, he's an evil maniac and the rest of the company are all covering for him"?
And another apologist has entered the arena. How long before realizes his failure in logic wont work here?
And your response is "I trust him, why would he ever do anything wrong?"
Never said that. If he was being accused of, for example, making leveling a lot slower in this expansion to sell more XP Boosts for $10 a pop on the Zen Store, I'd say, "Well, yeah, that's probably part of it. They're in business to make money."
If people were here asserting that the numbers he pulled from the servers were in error somehow, or the means used to identify the users of the exploit were untrustworthy and needed to be re-examined, I would understand that and I'd hope that everything was double-checked to ensure accuracy.
If people here start accusing him of being the Boston Strangler, based on nothing, then yeah, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt.
People on these boards are asserting that a certain narrative is true. That narrative is preposterous.
So, your response to, "D'Angelo would have to be maniacally evil and/or insane to do that of which you are accusing him" is essentially, "Yes, he's an evil maniac and the rest of the company are all covering for him"?
No, my response to that was that you engage in totally bogus reductio ad absurdum, painting a laughable hyperbole that divides the world in people who either tell the truth, or are "maniacally evil and/or insane."
they then hot patched the bug and used a blanket spec point drain algorithm without properly evaluating it's consequences,
- maybe or maybe not because like with cryptic we just have the word of the players and lets face it players have nothing to loose from doing this or saying this other then their own credibility if they are wrong which I guess they aren't too worried about in the long run so really they can make up anything they want
A) the majority of players weren't aware that 5X stronger enemies were not supposed to give 5X more EXP?
- never heard this one before someone made this up along the line some players I guess...
When in the history of online gaming has a company actually gone into detail about the exploit or even verbalized its presence - this is pretty common and in terms of their actions they have made a decision and are not about to back peddle on it ever. Players have a choice wait for support to work which probably will take a couple weeks or just ignore it and move on. All the sabre rattling in the world will not change what has happened.
It probably over time will cause more harm then good because its over with and in the scheme of life the universe and everything is actually pretty minor considering and really there is a point at which any normal person would let go.. its just a game .. pixels that one day will be deleted because in the end of it all we are just renting them for as long as they decide to let us rent them for and nothing more.
A) the majority of players weren't aware that 5X stronger enemies were not supposed to give 5X more EXP?
Really?
The majority of players honestly thought that when Cryptic released a new expansion with 10 new levels and a bunch of new content that what they intended was for people to power level through all 10 plus 50 skill points in a matter of hours by running one piece of old, pre-expansion content over and over again?
Really?
Don't be precious. A minority of players discovered an 'unintended feature' (read: bug) that allowed them to render the intended challenge of all that leveling trivial and a minority of those players chose to take advantage (i.e. exploit) it. A minority of those got caught and had what they gained by it taken away.
That's very easy to believe. It happens in games all the time.
Comments
This disingenuous 17x nonsense needs to be dispelled, once and for all.
If I do 22k, and someone else across the map does only 1k, then I'm going 22x faster than elsewhere. And, naturally, being in a team makes you finish the map faster too. Duh! None of that should count towards alleged 'exploitative behavior.'
NPC's, on Elite, were paying out 5x, instead of 2x the amount of XP. So, at the very most, ppl were leveling 2.5x faster. Tops.
Yup. I am absolutely sure they used the "statistics can prove anything" rule so they have a nice little example they can trot out, but practically speaking, it's still silliness.
Me neither. But at least for a while, I'll try to get justice. (Well that sounded grandiose. :P )
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
I must say I've had that question floating around in my mind since this all went down. Sad, really.
-> not guilty until the guilt is proven
aswell as there is the principle of cause any reaction
cause was the incompetence of the developers to fix this reported problem prior releasing the season and cause also was the great imbalance since the delta rising release
fact is the developers can decide to ignore us and blame us for their own mistakes
but we as players can also play this dirty game and simply stop to buy anything from c-store... we can cancel our subscriptions
we can learn from this incident and stop supporting the developers
nobody of us needs to test on tribble in future given the fact that our reports are ignored anyways
the developers say that we should have known this had been an exploit?
how?
It was a reported problem on tribble and since it was not fixed it is just logical to assume that the developer didnt see any problems with it... therefore it was no exploit... it was legit gameplay
My character Tsin'xing
Every Dev that has commented on this subject has given us all different stories as to what was actually being done that was an 'exploit'. And Im sure they will claim they didnt have all the facts....And that just begs the question. Why were you commenting on something you had no business commenting on?
If you notice. There hasnt been any new reactions from the Devs and thats because a lot of people got the message loud and clear and went back to DR. Enough to satisfy their need to show off their new shiny expansion and claim its 'such' a success.
This is why we cant trust these Devs anymore. They have no integrity, and this reaction is to Tau Dewa is a clear as day sign. Just as much as their reaction to Tribble Reports. Its no longer about giving the player what they want. Its about creating a system that gets under the skin of a player, a player that seeks to complete objectives and optionals, by denying them the opportunity to complete something without weeks or months of grinding or opening their wallet. They know psychologically that many players are driven to complete things. And if they hold it just out of reach long enough theres a very high chance we'll give in and pay to have it.
And that is what DR is all about. Holding things just out of reach. It wasnt enough that they make a killing off of CStore Ships, it wasnt enough that theyre racking in millions off of a gambling mechanic in the Lockboxes they have. No they need to make MOAR. They dont see us as a playerbase anymore. They see us as Groves of MoneyBag Trees ripe and ready to be picked.
http://s30.postimg.org/xlf5j6mwh/lol_doff_xp.jpg
sig
http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/5451/om71.jpg
It is a peculiar phenomenon that we can imagine events that defy the laws of the universe.
Hush. It is the only way to level my alts. And in fact all my chars at present time.
I have zero problems never playing a dil-nerfed-queue ever again, live and let die I guess
I'm not doing stf's either anymore, not even battlezones since they're stuck at lvl 50 (lol)..
I just log in to do doffs and chat with the occasional r&d for mk 2 critDx3 beams
sig
http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/5451/om71.jpg
It is a peculiar phenomenon that we can imagine events that defy the laws of the universe.
I used to miss exploration. Now I miss them twice as much. At least they would've been a lot more varied than running the same patrols over and over again.
Still reports coming in of people exploiting not getting punished and those not exploiting getting punished.
Gonna own up to it Stephen? Or just ignore and watch your game crash and burn?
this is too good to be something the dev team intended to happen
judging devs by quoting them.
They're going to ignore it. No real choice. If D'Angelo were to admit he wronged ppl, he'd lose face. And if the Devs admitted to such, they'd have to get rid of their leader. Neither of the two is going to happen, of course.
Nevertheless, D'Angelo did plenty damage, that no form of inaction on their end can hope to undo.
ingame: @.Spartan
Original Cryptic Forum Name: Spartan (member #124)
The Glorious, Kirk’s Protegè
this^^^^^^^
system Lord Baal is dead
It's better to be thought an idiot than to open your mouth and prove it to everyone.
Seventeen times faster than.... than what? Faster than the average solo 5k dps player who takes coffee breaks between runs? Faster than your spreadsheet optimizing whale milking predicted?
Rather than putting water on the fire, your gasoline now has the forums burning seventeen times hotter.
This is rich.
Okay, so it seems you are accusing D'Angelo of being either:
A) Maniacally Evil and/or
He seems to me to be able to hold down a job and otherwise function normally in society, so I don't know what evidence you have of this. But the behavior of which you're accusing he and the other devs is completely irrational.
Why on earth would anyone in any business punish loyal paying customers? Why on earth would anyone punish customers randomly and for no reason?
There is no reason. And since D'Angelo is not a raving, drooling maniac, the only possible answer to this is that you are completely and utterly wrong.
For your side to be right, all involved Cryptic and PWE executives have to be insane. For the other side to be right...you and some other folks took advantage of (i.e. exploited...look up the definition of the word) a bug, got caught doing, and lost what you gained by it.
Simple logic, Occam's Razor, says that the devs are right on this one.
Bogus reductio ad absurdum. In the real world, companies have *every* reason to cover up their mistakes. Produce a car that has a number of gas tanks that explode spontaneously?! Cover it up! Produce iPhones that have a metal rim that can short-cut? Deny! Have an EP that made a severe judgement in error?! Well, you figure this one out on your own.
So, your response to, "D'Angelo would have to be maniacally evil and/or insane to do that of which you are accusing him" is essentially, "Yes, he's an evil maniac and the rest of the company are all covering for him"?
Wait a second, you beleive that:
A) Cryptic were made aware of a bug in tribble and chose not to fix it
C) Called the whole playerbase cheaters, then came back with a really weak, vague and self-serving apology in an attempt to save face
Requires fewer assumptions than:
A) the majority of players weren't aware that 5X stronger enemies were not supposed to give 5X more EXP?
...i think you need to re-evaluate the principle of Occam's Razor.
And another apologist has entered the arena. How long before realizes his failure in logic wont work here?
Never said that. If he was being accused of, for example, making leveling a lot slower in this expansion to sell more XP Boosts for $10 a pop on the Zen Store, I'd say, "Well, yeah, that's probably part of it. They're in business to make money."
If people were here asserting that the numbers he pulled from the servers were in error somehow, or the means used to identify the users of the exploit were untrustworthy and needed to be re-examined, I would understand that and I'd hope that everything was double-checked to ensure accuracy.
If people here start accusing him of being the Boston Strangler, based on nothing, then yeah, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt.
People on these boards are asserting that a certain narrative is true. That narrative is preposterous.
No, my response to that was that you engage in totally bogus reductio ad absurdum, painting a laughable hyperbole that divides the world in people who either tell the truth, or are "maniacally evil and/or insane."
- this is not true i was not called a cheater and they did not call the entire playerbase cheater they called 250 people cheaters --
so you have 1 out of 3 points valid. -
- never heard this one before someone made this up along the line some players I guess...
When in the history of online gaming has a company actually gone into detail about the exploit or even verbalized its presence - this is pretty common and in terms of their actions they have made a decision and are not about to back peddle on it ever. Players have a choice wait for support to work which probably will take a couple weeks or just ignore it and move on. All the sabre rattling in the world will not change what has happened.
It probably over time will cause more harm then good because its over with and in the scheme of life the universe and everything is actually pretty minor considering and really there is a point at which any normal person would let go.. its just a game .. pixels that one day will be deleted because in the end of it all we are just renting them for as long as they decide to let us rent them for and nothing more.
Really?
The majority of players honestly thought that when Cryptic released a new expansion with 10 new levels and a bunch of new content that what they intended was for people to power level through all 10 plus 50 skill points in a matter of hours by running one piece of old, pre-expansion content over and over again?
Really?
Don't be precious. A minority of players discovered an 'unintended feature' (read: bug) that allowed them to render the intended challenge of all that leveling trivial and a minority of those players chose to take advantage (i.e. exploit) it. A minority of those got caught and had what they gained by it taken away.
That's very easy to believe. It happens in games all the time.