However, I am begging you, Cryptic, DO NOT LISTEN TO THE RAGE! Stay fast your decision and let the community adapt to these new queues. This provides a real challenge for people to look forward to in the game
The real challenge is elite. Why do you want such a challenge in advanced for half the reward? All advanced is now is a waste of time, where literally a week ago it was a fun, faced paced queue with good rewards.
This upcoming nerf is a good first step but the rewards still suck balls. They need to revert the changes.
Plus it's not more difficult, only more tedious. That's its own difficulty though - the difficulty of putting up with the increased tedium of the DR STFs.
No it doesn't, with one exception - beating 'time gate' objectives. This isn't fun and only puses us back further to the Star Trek Online: Escorts Rising. There is no increase in tactics, it's merely 'get more deeps'. Stop fooling yourself here.
You know im having a real bad day but wow I come on here and see
You see, there IS a difficulty level for people who want a "challenge" and to "rise to the occasion", it's called Elite. Go play that and leave other players who aren't freaking masochists alone.
Thank you.
How do people still not get it? The best way to appeal to everyone is put Advanced Back like it was and have Elite for people like the OP who like to spend 10 minutes chewing through cubes with 7 million HP.
For the 100th time.. you can have your content without taking away from the rest of us. It's not an either/or relationship.. everyone can have what they want. Advanced needs a huge change, do what you want with Elite.. I couldn't care less.
How do people still not get it? The best way to appeal to everyone is put Advanced Back like it was and have Elite for people like the OP who like to spend 10 minutes chewing through cubes with 7 million HP.
For the 100th time.. you can have your content without taking away from the rest of us. It's not an either/or relationship.. everyone can have what they want. Advanced needs a huge change, do what you want with Elite.. I couldn't care less.
He probably has not played Elite yet...Just wait over the next couple weeks when the masochists get their epeens slapped in Elite and start QQing for a safe word.:P
So the thing for me has more to do with not wanting to have to refit my science character into a DPS gunboat in order to be able to obtain things like R&D materials and Rep stuff.
All the shouting is that you need 13k in order to come to the table or just step off. Yeah I dont have that, I have no intention of having MK XIV stuff tomorrow, no I dont have a maxed out EC bank. None of this should be required in order to enjoy a game.
Isnt having fun what people started playing for anyways, not to stand atop a pile of defeated enemies and gloat?
So the thing for me has more to do with not wanting to have to refit my science character into a DPS gunboat in order to be able to obtain things like R&D materials and Rep stuff.
All the shouting is that you need 13k in order to come to the table or just step off. Yeah I dont have that, I have no intention of having MK XIV stuff tomorrow, no I dont have a maxed out EC bank. None of this should be required in order to enjoy a game.
Isnt having fun what people started playing for anyways, not to stand atop a pile of defeated enemies and gloat?
^^ This...again, I blame it on the 'win or else' crowd, a few of them are reasonable, but....
I -still- haven't cracked 4k dps on my T5-U Fleet Nebula(now with mostly Mk XIII stuff)...and I'm not trying to...I'm having a ball just doing great crowd control/support and tons 'o exotic damage...I set 'em up, you knock 'em down, I survive long enough to heal you, -you- survive because I heal you, we all win....
Strange that there is so much confusion I thought it was quite clear how the difficulties are supposed to work:
Normal: ppl who dont have a clue what they are doing with or without gear
Advanced: ppl who know a bit about what to do but lack the gear and all
Elite: those who know what they do and have all the shinies
Wheres the fun in simply having a bigger gun than the NPC's? for all the DPS bravado, I've seen very few fair well in serious ground combat. Everything so far has been about people crying about space combat. Hitting 60K DPS is all well and good providing your willing to min/max everything all the while. But I've been with a team form the DPS channel before that have gotten wiped by a rouge cube spawning in KASE, by the time they could bring their weapons to bear on the target they all got wiped.
When was the last time any of you min/maxer's pulled anything like this off?
Space is simply the easiest thing to run. Now I was one of those people that actually pushed for harder content, by harder I mean more challenging. But all we've been given is something that all is needed is the biggest gun in the game. The tactics have not changed from the pre DR STF's (And I'm not taking into account Disconnected here) There is no strategy involved. It's nothing more than people trying to face roll everything with DPS.
Wheres the fun in simply having a bigger gun than the NPC's? for all the DPS bravado, I've seen very few fair well in serious ground combat. Everything so far has been about people crying about space combat. Hitting 60K DPS is all well and good providing your willing to min/max everything all the while. But I've been with a team form the DPS channel before that have gotten wiped by a rouge cube spawning in KASE, by the time they could bring their weapons to bear on the target they all got wiped.
When was the last time any of you min/maxer's pulled anything like this off?
Space is simply the easiest thing to run. Now I was one of those people that actually pushed for harder content, by harder I mean more challenging. But all we've been given is something that all is needed is the biggest gun in the game. The tactics have not changed from the pre DR STF's (And I'm not taking into account Disconnected here) There is no strategy involved. It's nothing more than people trying to face roll everything with DPS.
Why not give NPCs more abilites that Captains use or make the existing abilities more powerful for NPCs. I don't think I've ever seen a Mob use GW outside of the CCE Event.
30% nerf on advanced and 10% buff on elite is about right to make them accesible for all
Yeah, I've been in 2 pretty good ISA groups. In both cases we were 10 minutes over the time limit. Most of this was spent on the final tac cube - 8 minutes for it in my last run. I'll try again on Thursday. The reduction should bring the time to do advanced into or close to the realm of reason. That 8 minutes seems to = appx 15000 dps for the group.
As for elite - I'd have to make up some 12 minutes to beat the timer. Well, we'll see in a month's time when people have more upgrades done. I guess the question is - how small a % is desired for elite. Personally, I'd go with between 5 and 10% I think they are aiming closer to 1 or 2% right now. May be a little low.
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advanced IS NOT endgame. advanced is for lvl 50-60. 60 is endgame. and there is ELITE stf.
Oh, I do think it is.
It's in the same format as a fresh 50 in Pre-DR STO jumping in to Elite STFs unprepared and not being familiar with how things are and likely doing things to contribute to the team's failure.
Also, I love the fact that there are people saying that the better players should just stick to "Elite" while those that can't be bothered to get better should have "Advanced." Oh the irony of that.
Why not give NPCs more abilites that Captains use or make the existing abilities more powerful for NPCs. I don't think I've ever seen a Mob use GW outside of the CCE Event.
If NPCs had a better variety of abilities to use against us it would be more in-line with the Undine and Voth. Both of which are much more fun to play against. The only other Species with an interesting use of weapons/abilities is the Vaadwuur with their cluster mine Torp.
Massing hitpoints on the npcs does not make for exciting gameplay, it is really quite boring.
A couple glaring problems with the game design, and the community:
While the fights have been drawn out with these ridiculous pools of health on npc's their damage output almost seems like it had been reduced, though it may be the new starship and captain traits. I feel like my Vesta has ben nerfed not because it isnt viable, but because since DR launched I have not had to use any consoles defensively, I rarely have to use hadard emitters.
Community - I suspect that the meta is shifting by design to something that requires more Science skills, which I have proven numerous timed in runs where I didnt get spectacular damage, but everyone around me did because of my efforts debuffing the enemy to reduce the impact of their health pool. As long as the players cling to the reduced scope of 'damage only' they are not going to succeed in this new meta.
Problem is, the efforts a debuffing sci takes to make the run a success are not quantifiable by a single basic combat log parser, so the fact that a single person can increase 4 other people's damage by a huge margin doesent mean anything to them, and they will not likely want you on their team for a second game because their log parser suggests that you arent good.
The only solution I see to this problem is to remove the combat log so that it cant be parsed by a third party application and its results spammed in chat boasting the prowress of the 'winner' - invariably the person with the highest dps is the person who posts about it. Removing the combat log and denying this behavior would shift the community goals from 'what can I do to make the combat log suggest that I am better then everyone else' to: how fast can me and these other 4 people complete this run. - It wouldnt take long at all for science to emerge as a key part of this new meta, and no one would complain about a single person's low 'dps' - because there is so much more to the game then just making combat log entries.
Ergo, the idea that things need to be nerfed is just as much the community's fault as it is the developers.
Why not give NPCs more abilites that Captains use or make the existing abilities more powerful for NPCs. I don't think I've ever seen a Mob use GW outside of the CCE Event.
Exactly, this is what we need! not just the same old dps face roll.
Massing hitpoints on the npcs does not make for exciting gameplay, it is really quite boring.
A couple glaring problems with the game design, and the community:
While the fights have been drawn out with these ridiculous pools of health on npc's their damage output almost seems like it had been reduced, though it may be the new starship and captain traits. I feel like my Vesta has ben nerfed not because it isnt viable, but because since DR launched I have not had to use any consoles defensively, I rarely have to use hadard emitters.
Community - I suspect that the meta is shifting by design to something that requires more Science skills, which I have proven numerous timed in runs where I didnt get spectacular damage, but everyone around me did because of my efforts debuffing the enemy to reduce the impact of their health pool. As long as the players cling to the reduced scope of 'damage only' they are not going to succeed in this new meta.
Problem is, the efforts a debuffing sci takes to make the run a success are not quantifiable by a single basic combat log parser, so the fact that a single person can increase 4 other people's damage by a huge margin doesent mean anything to them, and they will not likely want you on their team for a second game because their log parser suggests that you arent good.
LMAO The game isnt shifting to Science Abilities. Debuffs have always boosted DPS damage to an enemy. Thats the point of Debuffs. The only reason its been so rare to see is because soloing proved to be difficult even with Debuffs...Since you didnt have a Tac Escort utilizing the Debuffs the fights took longer. And it didnt take long for the community to go DPS crazy and forget the usefulness of Debuff/CC Science Class Abilities. Its only making a return because of the larger HP. I doubt Cryptic thought that far ahead. They just didnt want us railroading the content within a day. Which we would have had they not spread it across ten levels.
Why not give NPCs more abilites that Captains use or make the existing abilities more powerful for NPCs. I don't think I've ever seen a Mob use GW outside of the CCE Event.
Why not give NPCs more abilites that Captains use or make the existing abilities more powerful for NPCs. I don't think I've ever seen a Mob use GW outside of the CCE Event.
Haven't they been doing that? The Vaadwuar and Heirarchy both run very ability heavy setups. Any more and, especially with the larger fights, you risk devolving space combat into a choatic mess of things happening at you all the time without the necessary boff and ability resources to consistently counter them.
Think of it this way, while a single vaadwuar cruiser isn't going to spam you as much as a player does its rarely the only ship you're fighting at a given moment in PVE. Add up ALL the ships in the encounter and you see a much more respectable set of abilities all directed at YOU (for the most part). That needs to be moderated or else there's not going to be much you can do across that much more tremendous scale of spamming (think of how a 5 v 1 fight goes in PvP, and lets assume for the moment that the AI's haven't been balanced to instantly kill you. Do you really want that to become the staple of PVE?)
Though older, non-revamped species aren't as responsive, cryptics standpoint for some time now (basically back to the Voth and Tholians) has been to put the emphasis on powers. Now we're seeing both power usage and more HP, but the latter does not preclude the former, nor does it justify adding any more to that either (since minus a few bad balance tweaks things are gonig fairly well even on a less pathetic scale for video game design than "good for STO".)
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It's been said over and over again: More HP does not equal more difficulty. Even I, with my crappy, deliberately NPC-like weapon layouts and assorted mismatched gear (and possibly abilities), would like more difficulty - but this is not the way it needs to be done, and if I have to choose between the way it was pre-DR and the way it is now, I will gladly go to the pre-DR version of the game.
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I have heard alot of the rage about the community about the revamped queues being harder than before yada yada yada...
First, what was needed was more challenge in the Elite queues. Challenge.
Maybe something like a Unimatrix warping into KASE spawning assimilated BoPs and Aquarius and destroying it would reward purple stuffs for all.
What did they give us?
A nerf to weapons.
Technically they buffed some NPC's but the result is the same. That is NOT a challenge, it's just plain lazy.
What about the new players?
I feel sorry for them because they don't have the entry level STFs that we had.
Bring back the pre-DR Normal and Elite STFs.
Keep the new "Elite" for the fetish abuse gimps.
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You guys are comparing the revamped endgame instances with what are essentially low-developed characters and builds and not being very familiar with the way things are. When the average is Lv60 with more new Rep Tiers fully unlocked, to include Delta Rep, Starship Masteries, the new standard for equipment sitting at Mk XIII and XIV, and people getting the grasp of gameplay more, then the game will become much more manageable.
But no, we have fresh 60s, tons of low 50s trying harder difficulty content with their DR noob equipment, not being thoroughly familiar with the revamped instances, who encounter difficulty and rage. Rage that they can't faceroll the instances in 6 minutes anymore on the highest end content.
Cry me a river.
I have issues with diminished rewards.
I have issues with the mission timers not being reasonable.
The game has turned up a notch. What I like seeing in the various chat channels are the people raging like the world had ended, like Cryptic stole their Easter Candy. What I see are bad players finally shining through. Where as before DR you literally got away with lots of stupid things, especially just powering through with "Moar Firepowah." Not so anymore, and I enjoy seeing bad players exposing themselves on the channels.
This is where people are not getting it. When you hit 60 you will get it.
a) these are not "end game instances"
b) they are created especially the normals for people with no gear and t4 free ships who have just hit 50
c) they were created for people with no gear to get some gear
d) the "end game" instances become visible at level 60 and are labelled elite and will be appropriately hard
This is where people are not getting it. When you hit 60 you will get it.
a) these are not "end game instances"
b) they are created especially the normals for people with no gear and t4 free ships who have just hit 50
c) they were created for people with no gear to get some gear
d) the "end game" instances become visible at level 60 and are labelled elite and will be appropriately hard
ROFL- Normals don't drop 'end game' gear, RARELY do I see even a Mk XI blue piece. Every piece that drops in normals (and the old elites) is vendor trash. EVERYTHING.
Ai needs to use more abilites and maybe even give them new abilites.
All borg should have a always on tactical team i mean they are a collective mind they should be able to reroute shields very well.
Spheres should get the ability to heal each other and low level science abilites.
Cubes could ge abilites like Aceton Beam and RSP.
Tactical cubes should be badass since they are rare aka full range of abilites like RSP,EPTS,Feedback pulse,Aceton Beam and on top of hull resistance what is the point of all the extra plating on tactical cubes if it provides no protection.
Rebalance enemy hull and shield hp to make more sense atm in advanced borg bird's of prey and spheres have the same hp as a cube.
Probes should have very low hp aka somwhere around 50k. They were one of the first designs the borg made and are very dated and small (during star trek voyager timeline the interpid was considered a equal or superior vessel at this point the probe would be no threat to current starships)
Borg bird of prey should only be slightly stronger then a probe with around 75k hp.
Spheres should have a moderate hp pool of around 200k for advanced. Raptors would have about the same hp.
Cubes should have a hull hp of somewhere around 1.5 million hp. Negh'Var Heavy would have around 500k hp.
Tactical cubes should be around 7.5 million hp.
So taking all the above into account heres what the new normal/avanced and elite modes would look like.
Normal: Half to 2/3 of above hp values and borg use most abilites but with a long cooldowns. Control/tanking not required dps per person should be around 5k optionals not required. Drops BNP's on completion of optional. This mode would be meant for new players or those that don't want a challenge much like the old estf's.
Advanced: Hp values of the above, borg use all abilites some of the more powerful ones would have a longer cooldown and lower rank. Control and tanking is not required but will make it easier. Dps per person should be around 12-15k optionals not required. This mode would be for either experienced players who know their builds or players who have acquired some gear from normals.
Elite: Hp values 133% to 150% of the above, borg use all abiltes of the max rank and same cooldown as if a player were using them. Control and tanking is required. Required dps would be at least 25k per person. Optionals required.
This mode would be for geared players that want a challenge and meant for organized play not pugs.
5K dps is quite easy and most pugs i have run even at level 50 80% of the population manages to do at least 5k dps.
12-15k dps is alittle harder at level 50 but still doable with some rep items/passives/fleet items. Most of my new alts start at around 10k dps without rep/passives/fleet using mk xi greens/blues.
25k dps would require at least some rep/fleet items and passives and maybe even mk 14 gear.
How do these players reach Elite status? They play a LOT.
How can they have the time to play so much? They are most likely on the dole, be it school or some other hand out that we the casual players are working to provide them with.
So it's a double face slap.
Please have a bit of humility if you don't have to work for a living.
im on of the first to jump on the I hate elitists boat... but even thats too far for me.
there is no way in hell you could know their occupation nor could you know that any of the casual players are not in the position you're suggesting elites are..
please find your brain... though im not quite sure you had one to begin with, after a post like that.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,485Community Moderator
edited October 2014
I am really starting to get sick of people saying "Go home to Normal noob" or something along those lines on the forums right now.
I brought up a very good point in the "noob barrier" thread saying that its up to us as experienced players to help the less experienced. Yet its looking more like the elitest crowd seems content to polarize everyone and leave the inexperienced players hanging over a shark tank without trying.
I'm sorry we don't have shiny epic mk XIV EVERYTHING. Some of us actually have to grind out the gear you know. Before DR launched, my Assault Cruiser Refit was pretty decent in the old Elite STFs. Now that same build struggles in what is supposed to be comparable to the old Elite. Does that automatically make me the dreaded "noob"?
No.
I am an experienced player who started playing just before F2P. I'm familiar with the old STFs, and pugged Infected Space and Kitomer Ground on a regular basis, with varying degrees of success generally on the high end, especially for Infected Space.
AS an experienced player, I would be willing to help others if they're willing to ask for help, but the current environment is downright hostile to those who aren't experienced, resulting in "Learn2Play" responses from irritated players. That is NOT advice, that is an insult.
Everyone's gotta start somewhere, and being berated for not being at someone's self determined level does not help others get better. And if someone is planning on berating me for calling them out, why not try running an Advanced STF with "Average Player" gear that was decent in pre DR days like mk XI blue/purple weapons and consoles and a basic mk XII MACO set on a C-Store refit or free T5 and see how you do. Because odds are, that's what some of the "Noobs" are using right now.
I apologise to anyone trying to be civil in this thread, but there are just some things that drive me up a wall, and promoting an elitest attitude that polarizes the playerbase is a big one. If you can handle the new Elite, congrats, you earned that victory because it was meant to challenge the best of the best. But that shouldn't be viewed as a trickledown effect into Advanced, thus preventing even a decently geared average player from getting any shiny gear.
That's the thing - it is brains, not gear, which make for high DPS.
A Scimitar can do 19k DPS on common Mk X gear it left the shipyard on.
Yet some pilots cannot even break 3k on Mk XII VR/UR equipment.
All you need is a brain and a well laid out build in order to do 10k, on any captain type. If anyone wants, I can post up a build, nothing but mission reward gear and very cheap consoles on exchange, that is 9-12k DPS on any Cruiser, any captain type, just someone who knows how to fly, who understands power level management, weapon drop off with range, and what to shoot and when to shoot it.
To take it to 15k only requires doffing the B'Tran cluster.
To do 15k is well within the capacity of every Level 40 T5 or better - even the frakking Kazon have a 15k DPS ship, and if anyone deserves to be excluded on DPS grounds, it is them. It is not some "OMG WTF? hax!" output no one can do - that is 120k and beyond for now, rising even further once we can take full advantage of the gigantic power jump of DR.
To do only 3k DPS in today's STO is laughable. Unless you are only in a T1 ship, but you should not be in a T1 for endgame content.
That is why Cryptic buffed all PvE queues - because players were so incredibly far away from where the content was, and STFs, being supposedly the most difficult bit of STO PvE, needed to be adjusted.
Nothing personal - just a rebalance for likely the last time STFs will ever be adjusted. And it isn't actually balanced, Normal, prior to the coming nerf, was at the top 50% mark of STO players. Advanced was at top 90%, and Elite top 95%.
Once DR powercreep whacks the masses, 75% of players will be able to do Normal STFs, 25%Advanced, 10% Elite. Just for what we have on Holodeck, right now, nevermind what else is coming, between now and the probable never rework of STFs.
The content left Tribble needing a buff, not a nerf.
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The real challenge is elite. Why do you want such a challenge in advanced for half the reward? All advanced is now is a waste of time, where literally a week ago it was a fun, faced paced queue with good rewards.
This upcoming nerf is a good first step but the rewards still suck balls. They need to revert the changes.
Plus it's not more difficult, only more tedious. That's its own difficulty though - the difficulty of putting up with the increased tedium of the DR STFs.
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How do people still not get it? The best way to appeal to everyone is put Advanced Back like it was and have Elite for people like the OP who like to spend 10 minutes chewing through cubes with 7 million HP.
For the 100th time.. you can have your content without taking away from the rest of us. It's not an either/or relationship.. everyone can have what they want. Advanced needs a huge change, do what you want with Elite.. I couldn't care less.
He probably has not played Elite yet...Just wait over the next couple weeks when the masochists get their epeens slapped in Elite and start QQing for a safe word.:P
All the shouting is that you need 13k in order to come to the table or just step off. Yeah I dont have that, I have no intention of having MK XIV stuff tomorrow, no I dont have a maxed out EC bank. None of this should be required in order to enjoy a game.
Isnt having fun what people started playing for anyways, not to stand atop a pile of defeated enemies and gloat?
^^ This...again, I blame it on the 'win or else' crowd, a few of them are reasonable, but....
I -still- haven't cracked 4k dps on my T5-U Fleet Nebula(now with mostly Mk XIII stuff)...and I'm not trying to...I'm having a ball just doing great crowd control/support and tons 'o exotic damage...I set 'em up, you knock 'em down, I survive long enough to heal you, -you- survive because I heal you, we all win....
Normal: ppl who dont have a clue what they are doing with or without gear
Advanced: ppl who know a bit about what to do but lack the gear and all
Elite: those who know what they do and have all the shinies
Seems quite logical to me..
Wheres the fun in simply having a bigger gun than the NPC's? for all the DPS bravado, I've seen very few fair well in serious ground combat. Everything so far has been about people crying about space combat. Hitting 60K DPS is all well and good providing your willing to min/max everything all the while. But I've been with a team form the DPS channel before that have gotten wiped by a rouge cube spawning in KASE, by the time they could bring their weapons to bear on the target they all got wiped.
When was the last time any of you min/maxer's pulled anything like this off?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9JouiRH-xs
or better yet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj266xu4dyw
Space is simply the easiest thing to run. Now I was one of those people that actually pushed for harder content, by harder I mean more challenging. But all we've been given is something that all is needed is the biggest gun in the game. The tactics have not changed from the pre DR STF's (And I'm not taking into account Disconnected here) There is no strategy involved. It's nothing more than people trying to face roll everything with DPS.
50% nerf on Advanced and 50% buff on Elite for all the PWE fanbois, sounds better.
Why not give NPCs more abilites that Captains use or make the existing abilities more powerful for NPCs. I don't think I've ever seen a Mob use GW outside of the CCE Event.
Yeah, I've been in 2 pretty good ISA groups. In both cases we were 10 minutes over the time limit. Most of this was spent on the final tac cube - 8 minutes for it in my last run. I'll try again on Thursday. The reduction should bring the time to do advanced into or close to the realm of reason. That 8 minutes seems to = appx 15000 dps for the group.
As for elite - I'd have to make up some 12 minutes to beat the timer. Well, we'll see in a month's time when people have more upgrades done. I guess the question is - how small a % is desired for elite. Personally, I'd go with between 5 and 10% I think they are aiming closer to 1 or 2% right now. May be a little low.
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Or maybe you can get better.
Oh, I do think it is.
It's in the same format as a fresh 50 in Pre-DR STO jumping in to Elite STFs unprepared and not being familiar with how things are and likely doing things to contribute to the team's failure.
Also, I love the fact that there are people saying that the better players should just stick to "Elite" while those that can't be bothered to get better should have "Advanced." Oh the irony of that.
If NPCs had a better variety of abilities to use against us it would be more in-line with the Undine and Voth. Both of which are much more fun to play against. The only other Species with an interesting use of weapons/abilities is the Vaadwuur with their cluster mine Torp.
A couple glaring problems with the game design, and the community:
While the fights have been drawn out with these ridiculous pools of health on npc's their damage output almost seems like it had been reduced, though it may be the new starship and captain traits. I feel like my Vesta has ben nerfed not because it isnt viable, but because since DR launched I have not had to use any consoles defensively, I rarely have to use hadard emitters.
Community - I suspect that the meta is shifting by design to something that requires more Science skills, which I have proven numerous timed in runs where I didnt get spectacular damage, but everyone around me did because of my efforts debuffing the enemy to reduce the impact of their health pool. As long as the players cling to the reduced scope of 'damage only' they are not going to succeed in this new meta.
Problem is, the efforts a debuffing sci takes to make the run a success are not quantifiable by a single basic combat log parser, so the fact that a single person can increase 4 other people's damage by a huge margin doesent mean anything to them, and they will not likely want you on their team for a second game because their log parser suggests that you arent good.
The only solution I see to this problem is to remove the combat log so that it cant be parsed by a third party application and its results spammed in chat boasting the prowress of the 'winner' - invariably the person with the highest dps is the person who posts about it. Removing the combat log and denying this behavior would shift the community goals from 'what can I do to make the combat log suggest that I am better then everyone else' to: how fast can me and these other 4 people complete this run. - It wouldnt take long at all for science to emerge as a key part of this new meta, and no one would complain about a single person's low 'dps' - because there is so much more to the game then just making combat log entries.
Ergo, the idea that things need to be nerfed is just as much the community's fault as it is the developers.
Exactly, this is what we need! not just the same old dps face roll.
LMAO The game isnt shifting to Science Abilities. Debuffs have always boosted DPS damage to an enemy. Thats the point of Debuffs. The only reason its been so rare to see is because soloing proved to be difficult even with Debuffs...Since you didnt have a Tac Escort utilizing the Debuffs the fights took longer. And it didnt take long for the community to go DPS crazy and forget the usefulness of Debuff/CC Science Class Abilities. Its only making a return because of the larger HP. I doubt Cryptic thought that far ahead. They just didnt want us railroading the content within a day. Which we would have had they not spread it across ten levels.
Voth Bulkwarks and Citadels will pop GW's.
Haven't they been doing that? The Vaadwuar and Heirarchy both run very ability heavy setups. Any more and, especially with the larger fights, you risk devolving space combat into a choatic mess of things happening at you all the time without the necessary boff and ability resources to consistently counter them.
Think of it this way, while a single vaadwuar cruiser isn't going to spam you as much as a player does its rarely the only ship you're fighting at a given moment in PVE. Add up ALL the ships in the encounter and you see a much more respectable set of abilities all directed at YOU (for the most part). That needs to be moderated or else there's not going to be much you can do across that much more tremendous scale of spamming (think of how a 5 v 1 fight goes in PvP, and lets assume for the moment that the AI's haven't been balanced to instantly kill you. Do you really want that to become the staple of PVE?)
Though older, non-revamped species aren't as responsive, cryptics standpoint for some time now (basically back to the Voth and Tholians) has been to put the emphasis on powers. Now we're seeing both power usage and more HP, but the latter does not preclude the former, nor does it justify adding any more to that either (since minus a few bad balance tweaks things are gonig fairly well even on a less pathetic scale for video game design than "good for STO".)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
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Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
First, what was needed was more challenge in the Elite queues.
Challenge.
Maybe something like a Unimatrix warping into KASE spawning assimilated BoPs and Aquarius and destroying it would reward purple stuffs for all.
What did they give us?
A nerf to weapons.
Technically they buffed some NPC's but the result is the same.
That is NOT a challenge, it's just plain lazy.
What about the new players?
I feel sorry for them because they don't have the entry level STFs that we had.
Bring back the pre-DR Normal and Elite STFs.
Keep the new "Elite" for the fetish abuse gimps.
RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
This is where people are not getting it. When you hit 60 you will get it.
a) these are not "end game instances"
b) they are created especially the normals for people with no gear and t4 free ships who have just hit 50
c) they were created for people with no gear to get some gear
d) the "end game" instances become visible at level 60 and are labelled elite and will be appropriately hard
ROFL- Normals don't drop 'end game' gear, RARELY do I see even a Mk XI blue piece. Every piece that drops in normals (and the old elites) is vendor trash. EVERYTHING.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
All borg should have a always on tactical team i mean they are a collective mind they should be able to reroute shields very well.
Spheres should get the ability to heal each other and low level science abilites.
Cubes could ge abilites like Aceton Beam and RSP.
Tactical cubes should be badass since they are rare aka full range of abilites like RSP,EPTS,Feedback pulse,Aceton Beam and on top of hull resistance what is the point of all the extra plating on tactical cubes if it provides no protection.
Rebalance enemy hull and shield hp to make more sense atm in advanced borg bird's of prey and spheres have the same hp as a cube.
Probes should have very low hp aka somwhere around 50k. They were one of the first designs the borg made and are very dated and small (during star trek voyager timeline the interpid was considered a equal or superior vessel at this point the probe would be no threat to current starships)
Borg bird of prey should only be slightly stronger then a probe with around 75k hp.
Spheres should have a moderate hp pool of around 200k for advanced. Raptors would have about the same hp.
Cubes should have a hull hp of somewhere around 1.5 million hp. Negh'Var Heavy would have around 500k hp.
Tactical cubes should be around 7.5 million hp.
So taking all the above into account heres what the new normal/avanced and elite modes would look like.
Normal: Half to 2/3 of above hp values and borg use most abilites but with a long cooldowns. Control/tanking not required dps per person should be around 5k optionals not required. Drops BNP's on completion of optional. This mode would be meant for new players or those that don't want a challenge much like the old estf's.
Advanced: Hp values of the above, borg use all abilites some of the more powerful ones would have a longer cooldown and lower rank. Control and tanking is not required but will make it easier. Dps per person should be around 12-15k optionals not required. This mode would be for either experienced players who know their builds or players who have acquired some gear from normals.
Elite: Hp values 133% to 150% of the above, borg use all abiltes of the max rank and same cooldown as if a player were using them. Control and tanking is required. Required dps would be at least 25k per person. Optionals required.
This mode would be for geared players that want a challenge and meant for organized play not pugs.
5K dps is quite easy and most pugs i have run even at level 50 80% of the population manages to do at least 5k dps.
12-15k dps is alittle harder at level 50 but still doable with some rep items/passives/fleet items. Most of my new alts start at around 10k dps without rep/passives/fleet using mk xi greens/blues.
25k dps would require at least some rep/fleet items and passives and maybe even mk 14 gear.
im on of the first to jump on the I hate elitists boat... but even thats too far for me.
there is no way in hell you could know their occupation nor could you know that any of the casual players are not in the position you're suggesting elites are..
please find your brain... though im not quite sure you had one to begin with, after a post like that.
I brought up a very good point in the "noob barrier" thread saying that its up to us as experienced players to help the less experienced. Yet its looking more like the elitest crowd seems content to polarize everyone and leave the inexperienced players hanging over a shark tank without trying.
I'm sorry we don't have shiny epic mk XIV EVERYTHING. Some of us actually have to grind out the gear you know. Before DR launched, my Assault Cruiser Refit was pretty decent in the old Elite STFs. Now that same build struggles in what is supposed to be comparable to the old Elite. Does that automatically make me the dreaded "noob"?
No.
I am an experienced player who started playing just before F2P. I'm familiar with the old STFs, and pugged Infected Space and Kitomer Ground on a regular basis, with varying degrees of success generally on the high end, especially for Infected Space.
AS an experienced player, I would be willing to help others if they're willing to ask for help, but the current environment is downright hostile to those who aren't experienced, resulting in "Learn2Play" responses from irritated players. That is NOT advice, that is an insult.
Everyone's gotta start somewhere, and being berated for not being at someone's self determined level does not help others get better. And if someone is planning on berating me for calling them out, why not try running an Advanced STF with "Average Player" gear that was decent in pre DR days like mk XI blue/purple weapons and consoles and a basic mk XII MACO set on a C-Store refit or free T5 and see how you do. Because odds are, that's what some of the "Noobs" are using right now.
I apologise to anyone trying to be civil in this thread, but there are just some things that drive me up a wall, and promoting an elitest attitude that polarizes the playerbase is a big one. If you can handle the new Elite, congrats, you earned that victory because it was meant to challenge the best of the best. But that shouldn't be viewed as a trickledown effect into Advanced, thus preventing even a decently geared average player from getting any shiny gear.
Other than that, I am waiting for them to raise the elite difficulty bar so high, that the elitists groups start their own QQ threads.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
A Scimitar can do 19k DPS on common Mk X gear it left the shipyard on.
Yet some pilots cannot even break 3k on Mk XII VR/UR equipment.
All you need is a brain and a well laid out build in order to do 10k, on any captain type. If anyone wants, I can post up a build, nothing but mission reward gear and very cheap consoles on exchange, that is 9-12k DPS on any Cruiser, any captain type, just someone who knows how to fly, who understands power level management, weapon drop off with range, and what to shoot and when to shoot it.
To take it to 15k only requires doffing the B'Tran cluster.
To do 15k is well within the capacity of every Level 40 T5 or better - even the frakking Kazon have a 15k DPS ship, and if anyone deserves to be excluded on DPS grounds, it is them. It is not some "OMG WTF? hax!" output no one can do - that is 120k and beyond for now, rising even further once we can take full advantage of the gigantic power jump of DR.
To do only 3k DPS in today's STO is laughable. Unless you are only in a T1 ship, but you should not be in a T1 for endgame content.
That is why Cryptic buffed all PvE queues - because players were so incredibly far away from where the content was, and STFs, being supposedly the most difficult bit of STO PvE, needed to be adjusted.
Nothing personal - just a rebalance for likely the last time STFs will ever be adjusted. And it isn't actually balanced, Normal, prior to the coming nerf, was at the top 50% mark of STO players. Advanced was at top 90%, and Elite top 95%.
Once DR powercreep whacks the masses, 75% of players will be able to do Normal STFs, 25%Advanced, 10% Elite. Just for what we have on Holodeck, right now, nevermind what else is coming, between now and the probable never rework of STFs.
The content left Tribble needing a buff, not a nerf.
Cryptic wouldn't know how to buff it THAT high.
Genuinely.
They are of course welcome to try - the best amongst us could take anything Cryptic could do.