I'm sorry we don't have shiny epic mk XIV EVERYTHING. Some of us actually have to grind out the gear you know. Before DR launched, my Assault Cruiser Refit was pretty decent in the old Elite STFs. Now that same build struggles in what is supposed to be comparable to the old Elite. Does that automatically make me the dreaded "noob"?
I have Mk XIV UR (or better) everything. I know I play far from optimally but the gear doesn't carry me all that much.
I don't disagree with your overall point but I think STO lost sight of the fact, long ago, that gear should be a handicap, not the domain of top players. I think players and developers have lost sight of this.
Skilled players eager for a challenge should be the first to clear and farm encounters without the best gear. Powercreep from gear should be how normals catch up.
Gear in an MMO ideally narrows the gap between skilled and unskilled.
But there is really no way to outgear almost any content in STO.
Go in with a bad build and bad gear. Take that player in with the same bad build and the best orange quality gear. They will perform somewhat better but it's unlikely to play into success all that much. They will go from 3k DPS to 6k.
Take the best player in with the worst gear. They will win. Improve their gear, they will win harder and possibly be bored. They will go from 10k DPS to 30k.
The issue is that gear isn't doing its job. Better gear should narrow the advantage that skill provides. It isn't doing that job.
Having Mk XIV Ultrarare probably ought to take a 3k DPS player to 20k DPS and take a 10k DPS player to 25k DPS More skill, still better. But not AS MUCH better.
That's the thing - it is brains, not gear, which make for high DPS.
A Scimitar can do 19k DPS on common Mk X gear it left the shipyard on.
Yet some pilots cannot even break 3k on Mk XII VR/UR equipment.
All you need is a brain and a well laid out build in order to do 10k, on any captain type. If anyone wants, I can post up a build, nothing but mission reward gear and very cheap consoles on exchange, that is 9-12k DPS on any Cruiser, any captain type, just someone who knows how to fly, who understands power level management, weapon drop off with range, and what to shoot and when to shoot it.
To take it to 15k only requires doffing the B'Tran cluster.
To do 15k is well within the capacity of every Level 40 T5 or better - even the frakking Kazon have a 15k DPS ship, and if anyone deserves to be excluded on DPS grounds, it is them. It is not some "OMG WTF? hax!" output no one can do - that is 120k and beyond for now, rising even further once we can take full advantage of the gigantic power jump of DR.
To do only 3k DPS in today's STO is laughable. Unless you are only in a T1 ship, but you should not be in a T1 for endgame content.
That is why Cryptic buffed all PvE queues - because players were so incredibly far away from where the content was, and STFs, being supposedly the most difficult bit of STO PvE, needed to be adjusted.
Nothing personal - just a rebalance for likely the last time STFs will ever be adjusted. And it isn't actually balanced, Normal, prior to the coming nerf, was at the top 50% mark of STO players. Advanced was at top 90%, and Elite top 95%.
Once DR powercreep whacks the masses, 75% of players will be able to do Normal STFs, 25%Advanced, 10% Elite. Just for what we have on Holodeck, right now, nevermind what else is coming, between now and the probable never rework of STFs.
The content left Tribble needing a buff, not a nerf.
Again you fill the thread with alot of blah, blah,blah and leave no suggestions at all.
Just accusations about more other people dogging you in the cues because they havent reached godlike status in their minds like you.
Spell it out, tell us 'little people' how it's done. Build me a 15k DPS monster with no uber fleet gear and mk11 blue weapons. No uber purple exploit doffs either. Impress us all with your wisdom- use 10 million EC and make a beamboat do 15K DPS with only a lt and ens TAC, and 2-3 tac consoles.
Again you fill the thread with alot of blah, blah,blah and leave no suggestions at all.
Just accusations about more other people dogging you in the cues because they havent reached godlike status in their minds like you.
Spell it out, tell us 'little people' how it's done. Build me a 15k DPS monster with no uber fleet gear and mk11 blue weapons. No uber purple exploit doffs either. Impress us all with your wisdom- use 10 million EC and make a beamboat do 15K DPS with only a lt and ens TAC, and 2-3 tac consoles.
The tiny majority who don't want changes/nerfs made to queues are thankfully being ignored. Its happening. Thank God too, endgame was effectively dead in the water to everyone barring the greatest gamers since DR launch.
I am really starting to get sick of people saying "Go home to Normal noob" or something along those lines on the forums right now.
I brought up a very good point in the "noob barrier" thread saying that its up to us as experienced players to help the less experienced. Yet its looking more like the elitest crowd seems content to polarize everyone and leave the inexperienced players hanging over a shark tank without trying.
I'm sorry we don't have shiny epic mk XIV EVERYTHING. Some of us actually have to grind out the gear you know. Before DR launched, my Assault Cruiser Refit was pretty decent in the old Elite STFs. Now that same build struggles in what is supposed to be comparable to the old Elite. Does that automatically make me the dreaded "noob"?
No.
I am an experienced player who started playing just before F2P. I'm familiar with the old STFs, and pugged Infected Space and Kitomer Ground on a regular basis, with varying degrees of success generally on the high end, especially for Infected Space.
AS an experienced player, I would be willing to help others if they're willing to ask for help, but the current environment is downright hostile to those who aren't experienced, resulting in "Learn2Play" responses from irritated players. That is NOT advice, that is an insult.
Everyone's gotta start somewhere, and being berated for not being at someone's self determined level does not help others get better. And if someone is planning on berating me for calling them out, why not try running an Advanced STF with "Average Player" gear that was decent in pre DR days like mk XI blue/purple weapons and consoles and a basic mk XII MACO set on a C-Store refit or free T5 and see how you do. Because odds are, that's what some of the "Noobs" are using right now.
I apologise to anyone trying to be civil in this thread, but there are just some things that drive me up a wall, and promoting an elitest attitude that polarizes the playerbase is a big one. If you can handle the new Elite, congrats, you earned that victory because it was meant to challenge the best of the best. But that shouldn't be viewed as a trickledown effect into Advanced, thus preventing even a decently geared average player from getting any shiny gear.
Good post. There's a big picture going on here and a lot of people can't or won't see it.
Cryptic is making adjustments to the game based on their metrics. They obviously overestimated the level of damage that players would be bringing to DR and now they're reducing the HP on Normal and Advanced to compensate for it. They're basically tweaking stuff down one thing at a time and that's a wise approach.
Better they do that, than to overcompensate and give away something they're just going to have to take back later. But to do nothing? Obviously not an option.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
One thing that would "democratize" the game (that I've suggested in other games -- and I know it's a poison pill to system designers):
Cap incoming damage as a percentage of shields and as a percentage of hull, rather than increasing shields or hull automatically. This could be modified by level disparity between attacker's "real" level and the target. But this could apply to both players and NPCs. You only have people doing 30k DPS because enemies can RECEIVE 30k DPS. If enemies could only receive 25k, any excess would be useless and players who could exceed 25k would be encouraged to find more utility outside of damage.
Buff gear. Gear is the friend of the casual, not the prize of the elite, who doesn't need gear as much.
Buff teamwork. Introduce consoles that passively improve teammates at a rate higher than personal boosting consoles do. If someone can comfortably hit 25k DPS and their ability to generate 30k is overflow, they can start devoting space to teammate buffing consoles. Worst-case, everyone has maxed nothing but teammate buffing consoles and they're all doing 25k DPS since incoming would be capped.
Capping incoming damage would also redefine PvP as a place where everyone can play. Nobody can vape anybody.
ROFL- Normals don't drop 'end game' gear, RARELY do I see even a Mk XI blue piece. Every piece that drops in normals (and the old elites) is vendor trash. EVERYTHING.
dont recal saying they did did you read what i wrote I think this is half the trouble in these games people dont read or stop to consider things much.
YOu start doing normals you get some marks and some dilithium (I actualyl dont do any of these stf's for gear i do it for the marks and dilithium) then you level up the reputation or stuff some fleet marks in your fleet and save up dilithium meanwhile you learn the instances
then once you learn the instances you have some dilithium and have fed the marks into the reputation and everytime you complete a quest in the reputation it gives you a nice little box with an item in it which you stick on your ship eventually you have tossed away all the stuff you got that was green and have a ship with enough oomph to tackle an advanced.
then you go into advanced (maybe you have a t5 ship by then even or a new t6 or something depending on the way you do things) and you get marks and dilithium and hopefully some of those neuroprocessors etc or from the borg or the dyson equivalent or whatever and your levelling the reputation some more.
By the end your have maxed your rep and likely have now at the very least very purple gear on your guys and by then your dps is going up you have likely secured a ship which can do end game content then poof your probably ready to try an elite (no you wont be the top dpser but you will be able to contribute and maybe get a few elite drops.. or you can just upgrade your gear with stuff you got in the advanced )
so your correct they dont drop gear but they do give you marks that when you plug it into the reputation gives you gear which will be way better then what you have on your ship!
I would like to add something I dont measure my dps most of the time. I have 2 science officers and one engineer and one tactical (not a fan of the tactical stuff i prefer tanks or healers). I run two of my guys in klingon carriers even the science officer but this likely will change soon as i save up zen. I have a small fleet my klingons are in that i am levell up basicaly solo cause i am wierd but I find it fun. Its an old beta fleet that the leaders stopped playing ages ago and I decided to remain and level it up. I purchased a mirror ship for 60k credits on the exchange because my federation science guy had nothing and plugged in all the reputation gear i got from the little boxes. He is now a semi respectable science officer who can survive most things and contribute to the team. I put him in a science mirror ship but i will be getting him a dauntless. My tactical officer is the weakest because i am not a fan of tactical. My klingon engineer is a beast in his t5 ship claims first place regularly and he has no fleet gear and is only using reputation gear and he is an engineer to boot. My science klingon does pretty well as well he is a bit more squishy but he does pretty well with his debuffs.
You dont actually need fleet gear to get to this 15k. I dont have it sure I want it but I am patient. I contribute and do well. I think the normal and advanced are too difficult right now for entry level people but I fully intend to bring those guys into the elite instances in the future (when I am ready)
I have heard alot of the rage about the community about the revamped queues being harder than before. Hell, I've BEEN in those queues and the Borg take forever to take down now in a decent STF-Advance. It is a significant step up from where they were before.
However, I am begging you, Cryptic, DO NOT LISTEN TO THE RAGE! Stay fast your decision and let the community adapt to these new queues. This provides a real challenge for people to look forward to in the game. It breaks the cycle of abusing the PvP queues or seeing how fast they can race a Constitution class through an endgame queue. This will mean more traffic and more cheeks-in-seats as we try to rise to the new PvE challenge in our own ships. It is also a good incentive for people to buy your new T6 ships in order to complete the new queues easier (in theory) or to dump Zen-to-Dil into the game to upgrade all their gear so they can have a competitive edge again in the endgame. It also raises the bar for the standard of player needed in the endgame of STO, which in turn will attract more hardcore players from your competitors who are looking for more and different challenges.
The larger hit points on all the NPCs resumes the feeling that Star Trek originally had, Tall ships at Sea, as opposed to the TIE fighter zippity-doo-dah dogfighting style of before. Battles between two ships take several minutes instead of several seconds. This increases the time to think of and execute tactics. It also increases the immersion of hard-core trekkies of the feel that these are big vessels, with the lives of hundreds onboard. This also brings back the nail biting and exhilarating experience of completing the mission by the skin of your teeth. How amazing it feels to slug it out for 15 minutes, sweating it out with the borg, and then finally sending the Kang out with 30 seconds left on the clock. That's what this game needs! More moments of near death experience and triumph in the face of incredible odds!
To all the community members whinging about the content: It is possible. It can be done. Ask around. Try something new. Learn how to build a better ship. Relearn the tactics of the game. These are not impossible. These are challenges to rise above!
If you are so good and so obsessed with hard content why dont you just play THE HARDEST TIER IN THE GAME?! Why would you even care about the middle tier? It makes zero sense.
dont recal saying they did did you read what i wrote I think this is half the trouble in these games people dont read or stop to consider things much.
YOu start doing normals you get some marks and some dilithium (I actualyl dont do any of these stf's for gear i do it for the marks and dilithium) then you level up the reputation or stuff some fleet marks in your fleet and save up dilithium meanwhile you learn the instances
then once you learn the instances you have some dilithium and have fed the marks into the reputation and everytime you complete a quest in the reputation it gives you a nice little box with an item in it which you stick on your ship eventually you have tossed away all the stuff you got that was green and have a ship with enough oomph to tackle an advanced.
then you go into advanced (maybe you have a t5 ship by then even or a new t6 or something depending on the way you do things) and you get marks and dilithium and hopefully some of those neuroprocessors etc or from the borg or the dyson equivalent or whatever and your levelling the reputation some more.
By the end your have maxed your rep and likely have now at the very least very purple gear on your guys and by then your dps is going up you have likely secured a ship which can do end game content then poof your probably ready to try an elite (no you wont be the top dpser but you will be able to contribute and maybe get a few elite drops.. or you can just upgrade your gear with stuff you got in the advanced )
so your correct they dont drop gear but they do give you marks that when you plug it into the reputation gives you gear which will be way better then what you have on your ship!
Sorry this just doesnt happen. The gear from the lame rep boxes they give you is garbage and is not even close to enough for the advanced ques.
But hey if you want to play the hard content why worry about the middle tier? Just go play elite and leave us all alone. If i was a super high level dps player i wouldnt even be thinking twice about how hard or easy the middle tier is. That is unless I was trolling.
I have heard alot of the rage about the community about the revamped queues being harder than before. Hell, I've BEEN in those queues and the Borg take forever to take down now in a decent STF-Advance. It is a significant step up from where they were before.
However, I am begging you, Cryptic, DO NOT LISTEN TO THE RAGE! Stay fast your decision and let the community adapt to these new queues. This provides a real challenge for people to look forward to in the game. It breaks the cycle of abusing the PvP queues or seeing how fast they can race a Constitution class through an endgame queue. This will mean more traffic and more cheeks-in-seats as we try to rise to the new PvE challenge in our own ships. It is also a good incentive for people to buy your new T6 ships in order to complete the new queues easier (in theory) or to dump Zen-to-Dil into the game to upgrade all their gear so they can have a competitive edge again in the endgame. It also raises the bar for the standard of player needed in the endgame of STO, which in turn will attract more hardcore players from your competitors who are looking for more and different challenges.
The larger hit points on all the NPCs resumes the feeling that Star Trek originally had, Tall ships at Sea, as opposed to the TIE fighter zippity-doo-dah dogfighting style of before. Battles between two ships take several minutes instead of several seconds. This increases the time to think of and execute tactics. It also increases the immersion of hard-core trekkies of the feel that these are big vessels, with the lives of hundreds onboard. This also brings back the nail biting and exhilarating experience of completing the mission by the skin of your teeth. How amazing it feels to slug it out for 15 minutes, sweating it out with the borg, and then finally sending the Kang out with 30 seconds left on the clock. That's what this game needs! More moments of near death experience and triumph in the face of incredible odds!
To all the community members whinging about the content: It is possible. It can be done. Ask around. Try something new. Learn how to build a better ship. Relearn the tactics of the game. These are not impossible. These are challenges to rise above!
I consider a challenge to be NPCs that use tactics, abilities, and special attacks, with some nod toward increased shields and hit points. You want them to be tough, as well as smart.
However, what we have now is nothing like that. It's just insane levels of health, with no adjustment to the mission timer combined with increased failure penalties, and reduced reward for the effort.
In others words, it is, for the most part, what we had before (minus the optional becoming mandatory). The only difference is that it's now a simple, boring pew-pew festival for the 1337 min/maxers, rather than for well-equipped and reasonably skilled endgame level players.
Then there is the issue of non-STF instances that are supposed to be for lower level characters to participate in for dil, loot, and Fleet Marks getting a crazy boost along the same lines as the newly revamped Advanced and Elite STFs. That needs to be corrected.
Intelligent AI seems to be beyond what is currently possible with this game. So....
1. Advanced should have never been changed from the old Elite STFs. They should have simply slapped a different label on it and let it go.
2. The "new" Elite should have better rewards for the effort, in terms of marks, BNPs, dilithium, etc, etc.
3. The non-STF maps, like Fleet Alert, Starbase 24, etc. should have never been touched in the first place. Those are not just farming runs for endgame players, but also for people to earn marks and other goodies for lower level characters.
So, yeah. There needs to be a few tweaks here and there, considering Cryptic went overboard with their PvE revamp.
They obviously overestimated the level of damage that players would be bringing
Typical cryptic though isn't it? Everything has to revolve around tens of thousands of DPS. The closest they got to creating content that doesn't is crystalline catastrophy and the revamped mirror invasion. That's a mere two missions out of how many?
No doffs are necessary, the whole point behind it was to make a 10k ship for as little as possible.
You see, this is the issue the good players have, once you attain a level where you can do 10k in this, you are 90% of the way to becoming an Elite player. The remaining 10% is the pricy stuff.
About 4 months ago, I ran 2.3k DPS - I decided that I wasn't good enough, and I made an effort to improve.
I made 5-6k before I started asking for help - now, if I could be bothered, and that is a massive ask as I cannot be bothered, I could do 20k. I am just too lazy, and with DR here, it is too tedious and I do other more rewarding content than STFs now.
If you will yourself to improve, you will. Practice and build knowledge, and pick brains of those better than you. Don't stop learning.
Oh, and don't think 4k on a 12k build is bad, try copying SarcasmDetector's 23k DPS in a run they died on Galaxy Retrofit run...
You may think I am being coy, but it was all I did.
Sorry this just doesnt happen. The gear from the lame rep boxes they give you is garbage and is not even close to enough for the advanced ques.
But hey if you want to play the hard content why worry about the middle tier? Just go play elite and leave us all alone. If i was a super high level dps player i wouldnt even be thinking twice about how hard or easy the middle tier is. That is unless I was trolling.
want a screenshot I have not purchased a single item for my ship yet one one guy and outfitted the other guy in dyson gear mostly no borg anything i got marks and those injector things from the adventure zone. I am a returning player I can show you my ship if you like and all the gear is from those boxes. I am working on guy number 3 now.
I actually dont like the instance now by the way but I am pointing out that people are not thinking rationally about gear and how to get it because I have it and I am a stingy bugger. I am also extremely patient but that is how i got my gear ALL OF IT. I started with gear from those boxes and moved up from that as I saved up dilithium.
If you are so good and so obsessed with hard content why dont you just play THE HARDEST TIER IN THE GAME?! Why would you even care about the middle tier? It makes zero sense.
Nice try though.
Because for as long as I can remember. The Hardcore niche community in this game has been doing everything they could to force their playstyle onto others.
I can still remember the 'dying should delete your character' threads that lined these forums from top to bottom.
dont recal saying they did did you read what i wrote I think this is half the trouble in these games people dont read or stop to consider things much.
snip
Sorry if I misunderstood your post to mean normal STF's drop gear you can actually use end-game. Nowhere in those 4 lines did I get the impression that you were explaining the 60+ hour grind for marks, and the 40+ day grind to level thru the rep system to get the set shields for some reps (which you can't buy without advanced or elite item drops from STF's).
I'm sure you'll live a long life in the advanced ques with non-fleet or T5 rep shields, and perhaps 1 field gen.
No doffs are necessary, the whole point behind it was to make a 10k ship for as little as possible.
You see, this is the issue the good players have, once you attain a level where you can do 10k in this, you are 90% of the way to becoming an Elite player. The remaining 10% is the pricy stuff.
About 4 months ago, I ran 2.3k DPS - I decided that I wasn't good enough, and I made an effort to improve.
I made 5-6k before I started asking for help - now, if I could be bothered, and that is a massive ask as I cannot be bothered, I could do 20k. I am just too lazy, and with DR here, it is too tedious and I do other more rewarding content than STFs now.
If you will yourself to improve, you will. Practice and build knowledge, and pick brains of those better than you. Don't stop learning.
Oh, and don't think 4k on a 12k build is bad, try copying SarcasmDetector's 23k DPS in a run they died on Galaxy Retrofit run...
You may think I am being coy, but it was all I did.
I can agree with this. I am by no means a min/maxer but over the last 4 months Ive gone from a 1.5k DPS Escort to 8k range. I still am not satisfied since I know I can pull much more out of it.
I just need access to a Fleet (which Im currently not apart of) to actually put the final touches on my ship. Handful of Fleet Gear, Doffs and finally Tech Upgrades namely being what I have left to obtain. Granted this will probably take me the better part of whats left of this year and the first 4-6 months of next. But I wont look at a parser and be satisfied with what Im seeing until Im seeing Current Elite Queue DPS Output.
I can agree with this. I am by no means a min/maxer but over the last 4 months Ive gone from a 1.5k DPS Escort to 8k range. I still am not satisfied since I know I can pull much more out of it.
I just need access to a Fleet (which Im currently not apart of) to actually put the final touches on my ship. Handful of Fleet Gear, Doffs and finally Tech Upgrades namely being what I have left to obtain. Granted this will probably take me the better part of whats left of this year and the first 4-6 months of next. But I wont look at a parser and be satisfied with what Im seeing until Im seeing Current Elite Queue DPS Output.
Copy your character to Tribble - you can make your Fleet gear adjustments at no real cost on Tribble, and even more significantly, upgrades for free (except time spent at the console on Drozana)
Sorry this just doesnt happen. The gear from the lame rep boxes they give you is garbage and is not even close to enough for the advanced ques.
What do you recommend for gear then if not purple rep gear? Two of my characters are using purple weapons from the daily rep boxes (dyson and undine only), the other two are using either old omega [borg] weapons or romulan plasma.
I don't bother with striving to maximize my DPS so I don't know what the best ship weapons are.
Sorry if I misunderstood your post to mean normal STF's drop gear you can actually use end-game. Nowhere in those 4 lines did I get the impression that you were explaining the 60+ hour grind for marks, and the 40+ day grind to level thru the rep system to get the set shields for some reps (which you can't buy without advanced or elite item drops from STF's).
I'm sure you'll live a long life in the advanced ques with non-fleet or T5 rep shields, and perhaps 1 field gen.
I dont like the q's now I was pointing out how the progression should go. I dont use any gear dropped in them I have a ton of purple drops lol from ages of doing the old elite and have gone through the advanced now and have a couple more, but I find them horribly borring. I dont know what the dps of everyone in there I only know I pull a first place. Its work and the rewards suck, but I was simply pointing out the progression. It is possible to gear a ship up now (because I have done it twice so far and am on character number 3 and still progressing).
Is the grind long? i dont know I dont focus on grind I have fun. I have been back for about 3 months or so maybe more now and my new romulan is still in his t4 ship (he is tactical i can't stand tac and regret making a tac guy but I had 2 science and an engineer already) but i am busy accumulating his stuff and he can run the normals now and contribute (although i have one more level before i can get him a decent singularity core from dyson rep) .
I enjoy the game and all will be well when the do nerf the normal which had a code error in it as well and fix the advanced. The elite will be further buffed and this makes sense to me because its for those people who have done everything else in the game and are looking for further challenge. I will be trying it (when i get to it.. with upgraded gear etc but I am not there yet and am not in a race to the end of the game to do it.. one day though)
yes i have gotten a first place twice in the new advanced crystaline entity it was boring as hell but i did it. ON my engineer so I can say that its possible but I dont agree with the design right now. Not everyone is going to build the same ship nor should they have to. The engineer is using dyson gear and the nakura set no fleet anything and is using a t5 carrier. But again its way too much work considering what the q's are for it says it 15 minutes to complete for level 50-60. I dont think 30 minutes plus for half the rewards and the carpel tunnel i have from mashing the shield regen button all the time is worth it but its possible lol. I just dont think its realistic. And its borring as hell.
I always laughed at the whole idea of parsing for pve - pvp is entirely different topic.
And not just because the content was easy but more over because it was meant to be easy or rather have a larger range of freedom for those people who just want to experience star trek.
To me from the get-go it has been perhaps the main quality of playing sto that you could mess around with builds and place your skillpoints wrong and that was okay, you were free to mess around.
Sci in a dps ship, fly with all tractor beam mines and christmas lights turrets, go for it.
Not at all against a harder difficulty to match the power creep al rivera said didn't exist before they removed the repuation passives people earned.
just saying there used to be a place in pve where you could relax and come as you were in your ship the way you wanted, as it should be as people paid for recreational time.
People want to fight the honey monster with 13 billion HP with the dil bought gold gear they too should be able to.
But for the sake of everything don't kill the game for everyone who doesn't fit into that category which I do believe is a lot of people
What do you recommend for gear then if not purple rep gear? Two of my characters are using purple weapons from the daily rep boxes (dyson and undine only), the other two are using either old omega [borg] weapons or romulan plasma.
I don't bother with striving to maximize my DPS so I don't know what the best ship weapons are.
He doesn't know - Romulan Plasma is one of the best energy weapon types in STO currently, and you can build a decent set of weapons from those box drops with patience.
No doffs are necessary, the whole point behind it was to make a 10k ship for as little as possible.
You see, this is the issue the good players have, once you attain a level where you can do 10k in this, you are 90% of the way to becoming an Elite player. The remaining 10% is the pricy stuff.
About 4 months ago, I ran 2.3k DPS - I decided that I wasn't good enough, and I made an effort to improve.
I made 5-6k before I started asking for help - now, if I could be bothered, and that is a massive ask as I cannot be bothered, I could do 20k. I am just too lazy, and with DR here, it is too tedious and I do other more rewarding content than STFs now.
If you will yourself to improve, you will. Practice and build knowledge, and pick brains of those better than you. Don't stop learning.
Oh, and don't think 4k on a 12k build is bad, try copying SarcasmDetector's 23k DPS in a run they died on Galaxy Retrofit run...
You may think I am being coy, but it was all I did.
...And there it is- I have the wrong ship. I'll lose 2 crowd control specialties to gain 2 heals and a dem. Surely DEM3 can't 2.5X my DPS for a 15 minute mission.
*rolleyes.
BTW- I parsed my Chell grett 3 times last night, and would you believe my single mk12 DBB scored more damage than 2 Mk 12 DHC's cycling FAW 1/2, eptw 1/2, and a single BO1, aiming straight at CE for minutes at a time.
shrug
...And there it is- I have the wrong ship. I'll lose 2 crowd control specialties to gain 2 heals and a dem. Surely DEM3 can't 2.5X my DPS for a 15 minute mission.
*rolleyes.
FFS.
You Clearly have not read any of my posts here, have you - if you had, you would remember where i said repeatedly it was a flexible set up which varied with the Cruiser you were using.
But that doesn't suit you, or any other noob around here, so you twist words and ignore what was actually said.
You Clearly have not read any of my posts here, have you - if you had, you would remember where i said repeatedly it was a flexible set up which varied with the Cruiser you were using.
But that doesn't suit you, or any other noob around here, so you twist words and ignore what was actually said.
I wont bother wasting my time on you.
You're mistaken, I HAVE read every word looking for something I didn't see before but fair enough. Your attempted lesson isn't wasted or unappreciated.
I have heard alot of the rage about the community about the revamped queues being harder than before. Hell, I've BEEN in those queues and the Borg take forever to take down now in a decent STF-Advance. It is a significant step up from where they were before.
However, I am begging you, Cryptic, DO NOT LISTEN TO THE RAGE! Stay fast your decision and let the community adapt to these new queues. This provides a real challenge for people to look forward to in the game. It breaks the cycle of abusing the PvP queues or seeing how fast they can race a Constitution class through an endgame queue. This will mean more traffic and more cheeks-in-seats as we try to rise to the new PvE challenge in our own ships. It is also a good incentive for people to buy your new T6 ships in order to complete the new queues easier (in theory) or to dump Zen-to-Dil into the game to upgrade all their gear so they can have a competitive edge again in the endgame. It also raises the bar for the standard of player needed in the endgame of STO, which in turn will attract more hardcore players from your competitors who are looking for more and different challenges.
The larger hit points on all the NPCs resumes the feeling that Star Trek originally had, Tall ships at Sea, as opposed to the TIE fighter zippity-doo-dah dogfighting style of before. Battles between two ships take several minutes instead of several seconds. This increases the time to think of and execute tactics. It also increases the immersion of hard-core trekkies of the feel that these are big vessels, with the lives of hundreds onboard. This also brings back the nail biting and exhilarating experience of completing the mission by the skin of your teeth. How amazing it feels to slug it out for 15 minutes, sweating it out with the borg, and then finally sending the Kang out with 30 seconds left on the clock. That's what this game needs! More moments of near death experience and triumph in the face of incredible odds!
To all the community members whinging about the content: It is possible. It can be done. Ask around. Try something new. Learn how to build a better ship. Relearn the tactics of the game. These are not impossible. These are challenges to rise above!
Pretty much agree but a lot won't. Sadly cryptic won't have the balls to stand up to them.
ill say this, should the advanced mode been a little harder because of power creep, yes...
should they have increased the stats of the npc's.. yes....
should they have increased the amount of npc's .. no...
should they have made the content much much harder, and then cut the rewards by nearly 3/4's.. no....
im fine with the new advanced mode if they reward us like 1500 dil for completing it.. I have completed the new advanced mode, and I find that 1500 dil for it is a fair reward.
plain and simple, cryptic didn't just make it "harder", they made is unreasonable given the time it takes and the rewards given.. also, advanced is not elite.. advanced is meant to be a stepping stone for level 50+ leveling. elite is for the level 60's who are min maxing.
no one is saying to make elite any less hard, we are just saying to make the advanced more in line with what its role is in the game..
Comments
I have Mk XIV UR (or better) everything. I know I play far from optimally but the gear doesn't carry me all that much.
I don't disagree with your overall point but I think STO lost sight of the fact, long ago, that gear should be a handicap, not the domain of top players. I think players and developers have lost sight of this.
Skilled players eager for a challenge should be the first to clear and farm encounters without the best gear. Powercreep from gear should be how normals catch up.
Gear in an MMO ideally narrows the gap between skilled and unskilled.
But there is really no way to outgear almost any content in STO.
Go in with a bad build and bad gear. Take that player in with the same bad build and the best orange quality gear. They will perform somewhat better but it's unlikely to play into success all that much. They will go from 3k DPS to 6k.
Take the best player in with the worst gear. They will win. Improve their gear, they will win harder and possibly be bored. They will go from 10k DPS to 30k.
The issue is that gear isn't doing its job. Better gear should narrow the advantage that skill provides. It isn't doing that job.
Having Mk XIV Ultrarare probably ought to take a 3k DPS player to 20k DPS and take a 10k DPS player to 25k DPS More skill, still better. But not AS MUCH better.
Again you fill the thread with alot of blah, blah,blah and leave no suggestions at all.
Just accusations about more other people dogging you in the cues because they havent reached godlike status in their minds like you.
Spell it out, tell us 'little people' how it's done. Build me a 15k DPS monster with no uber fleet gear and mk11 blue weapons. No uber purple exploit doffs either. Impress us all with your wisdom- use 10 million EC and make a beamboat do 15K DPS with only a lt and ens TAC, and 2-3 tac consoles.
OR STFU.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=example2_0 - AP Example build, covered above.
The issue you have is one of knowledge, not builds, or gear.
Good post. There's a big picture going on here and a lot of people can't or won't see it.
Cryptic is making adjustments to the game based on their metrics. They obviously overestimated the level of damage that players would be bringing to DR and now they're reducing the HP on Normal and Advanced to compensate for it. They're basically tweaking stuff down one thing at a time and that's a wise approach.
Better they do that, than to overcompensate and give away something they're just going to have to take back later. But to do nothing? Obviously not an option.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
What I see is my own build, and I'll guarantee thats a 3kDPS'er if ever I saw one. no boffs or doffs ? There's got to be a secret hidden there.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Cap incoming damage as a percentage of shields and as a percentage of hull, rather than increasing shields or hull automatically. This could be modified by level disparity between attacker's "real" level and the target. But this could apply to both players and NPCs. You only have people doing 30k DPS because enemies can RECEIVE 30k DPS. If enemies could only receive 25k, any excess would be useless and players who could exceed 25k would be encouraged to find more utility outside of damage.
Buff gear. Gear is the friend of the casual, not the prize of the elite, who doesn't need gear as much.
Buff teamwork. Introduce consoles that passively improve teammates at a rate higher than personal boosting consoles do. If someone can comfortably hit 25k DPS and their ability to generate 30k is overflow, they can start devoting space to teammate buffing consoles. Worst-case, everyone has maxed nothing but teammate buffing consoles and they're all doing 25k DPS since incoming would be capped.
Capping incoming damage would also redefine PvP as a place where everyone can play. Nobody can vape anybody.
Oh, boffs vary - I only used the Excelsior because it was the first 8 beam cruiser on the list.
That is why I said from 9-12k, it does vary with ship choice.
It is a 9-12k DPS build, it was developed by the very best STO players, it is why I figured out how and why it worked, and started recommending it.
You just lack the skill to use the build, the entire point of my post - everything is down to knowledge.
No, I use that exact same build and it parses at 3-4k DPS, so without knowing the doff layout or boff skills it's totally useless as an example.
*edit- oh gee, lookie at that lt Cdr tac dude. seems this isn't the build you were looking for. Challenge stated 'Lt and Ens TAC.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Which would be attainable if the enemies weren't so overpowered.
dont recal saying they did did you read what i wrote I think this is half the trouble in these games people dont read or stop to consider things much.
YOu start doing normals you get some marks and some dilithium (I actualyl dont do any of these stf's for gear i do it for the marks and dilithium) then you level up the reputation or stuff some fleet marks in your fleet and save up dilithium meanwhile you learn the instances
then once you learn the instances you have some dilithium and have fed the marks into the reputation and everytime you complete a quest in the reputation it gives you a nice little box with an item in it which you stick on your ship eventually you have tossed away all the stuff you got that was green and have a ship with enough oomph to tackle an advanced.
then you go into advanced (maybe you have a t5 ship by then even or a new t6 or something depending on the way you do things) and you get marks and dilithium and hopefully some of those neuroprocessors etc or from the borg or the dyson equivalent or whatever and your levelling the reputation some more.
By the end your have maxed your rep and likely have now at the very least very purple gear on your guys and by then your dps is going up you have likely secured a ship which can do end game content then poof your probably ready to try an elite (no you wont be the top dpser but you will be able to contribute and maybe get a few elite drops.. or you can just upgrade your gear with stuff you got in the advanced )
so your correct they dont drop gear but they do give you marks that when you plug it into the reputation gives you gear which will be way better then what you have on your ship!
I would like to add something I dont measure my dps most of the time. I have 2 science officers and one engineer and one tactical (not a fan of the tactical stuff i prefer tanks or healers). I run two of my guys in klingon carriers even the science officer but this likely will change soon as i save up zen. I have a small fleet my klingons are in that i am levell up basicaly solo cause i am wierd but I find it fun. Its an old beta fleet that the leaders stopped playing ages ago and I decided to remain and level it up. I purchased a mirror ship for 60k credits on the exchange because my federation science guy had nothing and plugged in all the reputation gear i got from the little boxes. He is now a semi respectable science officer who can survive most things and contribute to the team. I put him in a science mirror ship but i will be getting him a dauntless. My tactical officer is the weakest because i am not a fan of tactical. My klingon engineer is a beast in his t5 ship claims first place regularly and he has no fleet gear and is only using reputation gear and he is an engineer to boot. My science klingon does pretty well as well he is a bit more squishy but he does pretty well with his debuffs.
You dont actually need fleet gear to get to this 15k. I dont have it sure I want it but I am patient. I contribute and do well. I think the normal and advanced are too difficult right now for entry level people but I fully intend to bring those guys into the elite instances in the future (when I am ready)
If you are so good and so obsessed with hard content why dont you just play THE HARDEST TIER IN THE GAME?! Why would you even care about the middle tier? It makes zero sense.
Nice try though.
Sorry this just doesnt happen. The gear from the lame rep boxes they give you is garbage and is not even close to enough for the advanced ques.
But hey if you want to play the hard content why worry about the middle tier? Just go play elite and leave us all alone. If i was a super high level dps player i wouldnt even be thinking twice about how hard or easy the middle tier is. That is unless I was trolling.
I consider a challenge to be NPCs that use tactics, abilities, and special attacks, with some nod toward increased shields and hit points. You want them to be tough, as well as smart.
However, what we have now is nothing like that. It's just insane levels of health, with no adjustment to the mission timer combined with increased failure penalties, and reduced reward for the effort.
In others words, it is, for the most part, what we had before (minus the optional becoming mandatory). The only difference is that it's now a simple, boring pew-pew festival for the 1337 min/maxers, rather than for well-equipped and reasonably skilled endgame level players.
Then there is the issue of non-STF instances that are supposed to be for lower level characters to participate in for dil, loot, and Fleet Marks getting a crazy boost along the same lines as the newly revamped Advanced and Elite STFs. That needs to be corrected.
Intelligent AI seems to be beyond what is currently possible with this game. So....
1. Advanced should have never been changed from the old Elite STFs. They should have simply slapped a different label on it and let it go.
2. The "new" Elite should have better rewards for the effort, in terms of marks, BNPs, dilithium, etc, etc.
3. The non-STF maps, like Fleet Alert, Starbase 24, etc. should have never been touched in the first place. Those are not just farming runs for endgame players, but also for people to earn marks and other goodies for lower level characters.
So, yeah. There needs to be a few tweaks here and there, considering Cryptic went overboard with their PvE revamp.
Typical cryptic though isn't it? Everything has to revolve around tens of thousands of DPS. The closest they got to creating content that doesn't is crystalline catastrophy and the revamped mirror invasion. That's a mere two missions out of how many?
Nope, you got it to parse 4k. I can get it to parse 8k on a Sci captain - Players who actually know what they are doing get it to 12k.
A typical Lt/Ens Tac combo:
TT1, APB1,
BFAW1,
EPTS1, EPTW2, A2SIF1, RSP3/DEM3
EPTS1, EPTW2, DEM2/RSP2
HE1, ST2,
No doffs are necessary, the whole point behind it was to make a 10k ship for as little as possible.
You see, this is the issue the good players have, once you attain a level where you can do 10k in this, you are 90% of the way to becoming an Elite player. The remaining 10% is the pricy stuff.
About 4 months ago, I ran 2.3k DPS - I decided that I wasn't good enough, and I made an effort to improve.
I made 5-6k before I started asking for help - now, if I could be bothered, and that is a massive ask as I cannot be bothered, I could do 20k. I am just too lazy, and with DR here, it is too tedious and I do other more rewarding content than STFs now.
If you will yourself to improve, you will. Practice and build knowledge, and pick brains of those better than you. Don't stop learning.
Oh, and don't think 4k on a 12k build is bad, try copying SarcasmDetector's 23k DPS in a run they died on Galaxy Retrofit run...
You may think I am being coy, but it was all I did.
want a screenshot I have not purchased a single item for my ship yet one one guy and outfitted the other guy in dyson gear mostly no borg anything i got marks and those injector things from the adventure zone. I am a returning player I can show you my ship if you like and all the gear is from those boxes. I am working on guy number 3 now.
I actually dont like the instance now by the way but I am pointing out that people are not thinking rationally about gear and how to get it because I have it and I am a stingy bugger. I am also extremely patient but that is how i got my gear ALL OF IT. I started with gear from those boxes and moved up from that as I saved up dilithium.
Because for as long as I can remember. The Hardcore niche community in this game has been doing everything they could to force their playstyle onto others.
I can still remember the 'dying should delete your character' threads that lined these forums from top to bottom.
Sorry if I misunderstood your post to mean normal STF's drop gear you can actually use end-game. Nowhere in those 4 lines did I get the impression that you were explaining the 60+ hour grind for marks, and the 40+ day grind to level thru the rep system to get the set shields for some reps (which you can't buy without advanced or elite item drops from STF's).
I'm sure you'll live a long life in the advanced ques with non-fleet or T5 rep shields, and perhaps 1 field gen.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
I can agree with this. I am by no means a min/maxer but over the last 4 months Ive gone from a 1.5k DPS Escort to 8k range. I still am not satisfied since I know I can pull much more out of it.
I just need access to a Fleet (which Im currently not apart of) to actually put the final touches on my ship. Handful of Fleet Gear, Doffs and finally Tech Upgrades namely being what I have left to obtain. Granted this will probably take me the better part of whats left of this year and the first 4-6 months of next. But I wont look at a parser and be satisfied with what Im seeing until Im seeing Current Elite Queue DPS Output.
Copy your character to Tribble - you can make your Fleet gear adjustments at no real cost on Tribble, and even more significantly, upgrades for free (except time spent at the console on Drozana)
Tribble is a vastly under used resource...
What do you recommend for gear then if not purple rep gear? Two of my characters are using purple weapons from the daily rep boxes (dyson and undine only), the other two are using either old omega [borg] weapons or romulan plasma.
I don't bother with striving to maximize my DPS so I don't know what the best ship weapons are.
I dont like the q's now I was pointing out how the progression should go. I dont use any gear dropped in them I have a ton of purple drops lol from ages of doing the old elite and have gone through the advanced now and have a couple more, but I find them horribly borring. I dont know what the dps of everyone in there I only know I pull a first place. Its work and the rewards suck, but I was simply pointing out the progression. It is possible to gear a ship up now (because I have done it twice so far and am on character number 3 and still progressing).
Is the grind long? i dont know I dont focus on grind I have fun. I have been back for about 3 months or so maybe more now and my new romulan is still in his t4 ship (he is tactical i can't stand tac and regret making a tac guy but I had 2 science and an engineer already) but i am busy accumulating his stuff and he can run the normals now and contribute (although i have one more level before i can get him a decent singularity core from dyson rep) .
I enjoy the game and all will be well when the do nerf the normal which had a code error in it as well and fix the advanced. The elite will be further buffed and this makes sense to me because its for those people who have done everything else in the game and are looking for further challenge. I will be trying it (when i get to it.. with upgraded gear etc but I am not there yet and am not in a race to the end of the game to do it.. one day though)
yes i have gotten a first place twice in the new advanced crystaline entity it was boring as hell but i did it. ON my engineer so I can say that its possible but I dont agree with the design right now. Not everyone is going to build the same ship nor should they have to. The engineer is using dyson gear and the nakura set no fleet anything and is using a t5 carrier. But again its way too much work considering what the q's are for it says it 15 minutes to complete for level 50-60. I dont think 30 minutes plus for half the rewards and the carpel tunnel i have from mashing the shield regen button all the time is worth it but its possible lol. I just dont think its realistic. And its borring as hell.
And not just because the content was easy but more over because it was meant to be easy or rather have a larger range of freedom for those people who just want to experience star trek.
To me from the get-go it has been perhaps the main quality of playing sto that you could mess around with builds and place your skillpoints wrong and that was okay, you were free to mess around.
Sci in a dps ship, fly with all tractor beam mines and christmas lights turrets, go for it.
Not at all against a harder difficulty to match the power creep al rivera said didn't exist before they removed the repuation passives people earned.
just saying there used to be a place in pve where you could relax and come as you were in your ship the way you wanted, as it should be as people paid for recreational time.
People want to fight the honey monster with 13 billion HP with the dil bought gold gear they too should be able to.
But for the sake of everything don't kill the game for everyone who doesn't fit into that category which I do believe is a lot of people
He doesn't know - Romulan Plasma is one of the best energy weapon types in STO currently, and you can build a decent set of weapons from those box drops with patience.
...And there it is- I have the wrong ship. I'll lose 2 crowd control specialties to gain 2 heals and a dem. Surely DEM3 can't 2.5X my DPS for a 15 minute mission.
*rolleyes.
BTW- I parsed my Chell grett 3 times last night, and would you believe my single mk12 DBB scored more damage than 2 Mk 12 DHC's cycling FAW 1/2, eptw 1/2, and a single BO1, aiming straight at CE for minutes at a time.
shrug
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
FFS.
You Clearly have not read any of my posts here, have you - if you had, you would remember where i said repeatedly it was a flexible set up which varied with the Cruiser you were using.
But that doesn't suit you, or any other noob around here, so you twist words and ignore what was actually said.
I wont bother wasting my time on you.
You're mistaken, I HAVE read every word looking for something I didn't see before but fair enough. Your attempted lesson isn't wasted or unappreciated.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Pretty much agree but a lot won't. Sadly cryptic won't have the balls to stand up to them.
should they have increased the stats of the npc's.. yes....
should they have increased the amount of npc's .. no...
should they have made the content much much harder, and then cut the rewards by nearly 3/4's.. no....
im fine with the new advanced mode if they reward us like 1500 dil for completing it.. I have completed the new advanced mode, and I find that 1500 dil for it is a fair reward.
plain and simple, cryptic didn't just make it "harder", they made is unreasonable given the time it takes and the rewards given.. also, advanced is not elite.. advanced is meant to be a stepping stone for level 50+ leveling. elite is for the level 60's who are min maxing.
no one is saying to make elite any less hard, we are just saying to make the advanced more in line with what its role is in the game..