since this game is only about healing, when dps is very low, its quite logical to make ships more dps capable. though i was surprised that it got a ltcom and a lt tac. thats quite more than id expected.
on the other hand i think a com sci is comepletely sufficient for most missions. you can hav gravwell hazard2, tss2 and sciteam and i cant think of anything else you really need.
i think the seating is due to making it competitive with the vesta and all the latest tac-heavy sciships.
in general i think the benefit of having "to much in one career" is very low, you get shared-cd locked all the time. so i generally prefer less bos with higher ranks than many bos with low ranks in one career. also we already have the standard ships for that.
Except it can't compete with the Vesta...no way. It's not only short the hangar but the Recon MME has a extra tac console. With the MME line you can do many things with it...this Dauntless in pidgeonholed into a tac ship pretty much...except it sucks as a tac ship because it is lacking in multiple areas.
It lacks the option for DHC's to do any real punch and it lacks the weapon slots Escorts and Cruisers have. You only have a Cmdr Sci unless you sacrifice your Intel slots so you aren't going to be able to do sufficient exotic damage or draining with it.
Why can't Sci be healers? Why did they give Sci healing abilities? If a Cruiser can DPS and a Escort/Destroyer can tank why not a Sci Heal?
And if you want to tell me that Escorts can't tank then they're only DPS and if you tell me Cruisers are healers then who is the tank of STO? Ships can fit multiple roles if done right and played right...I don't see why you insist a Sci can't heal...especially when SA boosts healing on the friendly target.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
But its not gonna be much of a damage ship either. People will be able to get plenty sure, but it'll be a square-peg-round-hole solution. Its meh sci, its meh damage, it isn't good at anything. Even if one used the logic of people who FAW their way through everything, it still doesn't have much purpose. Heck a bad ship would at least add something, but this one is just boring.
I know, but my point was that there are too many players who really DO approach the game that way, but that even with THAT mindset it doesn't work. Even reduced to lowest common denominator its still blah.
you will loose the ability to counter the intel scan debuff, thats A LOT you give up. maybe you should reconsider ;-) esp in pvp! intelteam1 will be your live saver, if you dont have one it will be quite bad to be hit when exposed.
thats why i think all t5u ships should get at least a en intel bo instead of HP and shieldHP
Yes, inunderstand, but Crytpic has not wowed me with either science ship. I like the Scryer more, bu I would rather the commander be dedicated science and the lt commander be the Intel/ science seat.
The loss of a second lt commander spot on the Duantless has really bothered me. I would rather have seen it like this
Commander science
Lt. commander science/Intel
Lt commander eng
Lt tactical.
Fed escorts have a dual lt commander Boff slot, the patrol escort retrofit has an awesome Boff layput, would love to see a science ship like that.
It's clear Cryptic wanted the Dauntless to be an Escort. LtCdr & Lt TAC stations is a very substantial TAC investment, even for a TAC Cruiser. Yet this is given to a ship with 6 weapon slots and will usually be diverting a lot of power to Aux Power. It's a SCIENCE SHIP.
A Sci Ship like a Nova is fine with the LtCdr TAC. It's just enough while still having a lot of Science to do all the things and more that a Science ship should be doing. But the Dauntless takes away from Science and even ENG to put a lot of TAC on a ship that won't be making the best use of it. With 6 weapon slots only and power diverted to Aux, it's a waste.
Good points all, warmaker001b.
I'm reminded of a post from 2013 about Aux Powered Weapons, e.g. the Vesta's Aux DHC. I wonder if the Delta Alliance Reputation Store will offer something that is more suitable to the Dauntless's abilities; it is an "experimental science ship", after all. (I haven't looked into the Store offerings on Tribble yet.)
Or more experimental in the sense of being TAC focused, despite being a "SCI" ship. :rolleyes: I think Cryptic is caught between having seen the Dauntless as a likely SCI ship in VOY's "Hope and Fear" episode, given the Quantum Slipstream Drive (QSD) -- and a possible TAC ship during ENT's "Azati Prime" episode, during the Battle of Procyon V.
Bottom line here: Some players, including me, are looking forward to trying this ship -- and seeing what can be done with it. Question is, will I continue use the Dauntless with one (or more) of my toons?
i think the Lt tac spot should be universal , and the ship leaned more eng in the show , remember it takes some good engineering to keep the ship from tearing itself apart from quantum stresses , making voyager have to stop using it after so long
and one thing has not been talked about is that the Lt sci,tac,eng/intel on all ships will not be used for those classes it will be intel abilities lets be honest , so in reality the ship had 4 sci spots and 5 tac spots making it a tactical ship not a science ship really
And tanks are not healers to the people who said that , tanks are tanks with secondary heal or dps
Where science can run the gambit of heal buff debuff
So in the end make one of the tac bridge officer stations 1 of the 3 sci eng or universal
You have to remember, they've called her an "Experimental Science Ship". So I assume the unusual layout has a lot to do with that as well.
Also you need to observe what the ship is aimed at - and by the looks of it the Dauntless is aimed at causal PVE for players that want to dabble with sci.chars and sci.shps, but also want to blow up stuff with some real firepower. The Dauntless is a ship for those players, you know, people that aren't overally concerned with min-maxing or squeezing every last ounce of a ship's potential. And it will be a rather fun ship for them, IMHO. Not every ship can be for everyone or every role.
I agree with you here. When I look at the Dauntless, I think "science vessel with teeth". An odd "hybrid" of sorts.
It's definitely a casual's "pew, pew" science ship.
The Dauntless is a complete let down in it's current form. Give it
LTC Uni
LT Uni
And give us a ship we can customize to whatever role we want. It would be different, still Sci centric with a Cmdr Sci. Everyone would buy it, just because it looks cool and it's flexible.
Please give everyone a reason to buy this. Not just wanna be escort pilots.
I've bee looking at the Dauntless for the last few days now. Trying to find something, ANYTHING to make me think of replacing my Vesta for it...
I got nuthin'. Vesta is just flat out superior as both a tactical DPS machine AND a sci vessel, which begs the questions:
Surely the Devs should have seen this coming, and why didn't they give the Dauntless something unique to set it apart as a REAL option in comparison?
Seriously, what's the hyper-advanced slipstream drive gonna be any good for? Tour the Galaxy?
I'm guessing the ship is more of a fanboy crowd pleaser than a design to replace a "heavy" sci ship like the Vesta, which I can also just not see myself replaceing with either of the the 2 federation T6 sci ship offerings at this time.
Although my sci captain that runs a vesta isn't my main I will eventually be getting the upgrade for the vesta, unless between now and then they release something that I feel can replace it in a T6 grade. I don't PvP and don't push total min/max stuff so I'm not terribly worried. I'll be working on upgrading my main's gear first as I run que's with him normally anyway and I am grinding dil into zen to get a Guardian for him.
Why are you fed's crying? If anyone has a right to cry it's the romulan's and the Kdf's you spoiled fed's get 6 new ships to start this season while the others only get 2. Your crying about your options's for sci's ships For Christ's sake you get 2 we don't get any!?!?! For the love of God if you can't pick 1 from the 2 new shinny 1's it's your own damn fault get over your self's.
Why are you fed's crying? If anyone has a right to cry it's the romulan's and the Kdf's you spoiled fed's get 6 new ships to start this season while the others only get 2. Your crying about your options's for sci's ships For Christ's sake you get 2 we don't get any!?!?! For the love of God if you can't pick 1 from the 2 new shinny 1's it's your own damn fault get over your self's.
Who was crying? I'm not LOL.... I simply said I didn't like the current offerings... nothing more.
Why are you fed's crying? If anyone has a right to cry it's the romulan's and the Kdf's you spoiled fed's get 6 new ships to start this season while the others only get 2. Your crying about your options's for sci's ships For Christ's sake you get 2 we don't get any!?!?! For the love of God if you can't pick 1 from the 2 new shinny 1's it's your own damn fault get over your self's.
Of course the Romulans aren't crying. Have you seen the Fhaet? It's literally the final word in warbirds. Any romulan in his right mind is gonna want to be in that thing!
Quality over quantity
Real Temporal Operative: Purchased the Special Temporal Agent pack before it was even officially announced!
The Dauntless is a complete let down in it's current form. Give it
LTC Uni
LT Uni
And give us a ship we can customize to whatever role we want. It would be different, still Sci centric with a Cmdr Sci. Everyone would buy it, just because it looks cool and it's flexible.
Please give everyone a reason to buy this. Not just wanna be escort pilots.
Well I don't think it looks cool...in fact I think she is kinda ugly :P
But that doesn't change the fact that if she had a Lt or Lt Cmdr Uni she would be exactly what I was looking for in a special customized Sci ship...other than the Vesta.
Plus that special ship trait they gave it just doesn't fit without some more engineering based hull heals available.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Please Cryptic, I really wanna use this ship. Been looking forward to it being added to the game for sometime.
Really stoked when I heard it was gonna be a science ship. Please make it good, instead of a mediocre.
The existing BOff seating is what I'd use anyway, to be honest. It's enough science for me to do what I want (I don't intend to use an Intelligence power in the hybrid seat).
Ultimately, the problem simply lies in the fact that the Vesta is so near perfect a science vessel that trying to find anything to top it is nigh impossible.
If you take the Vesta out of the equation, the Dauntless doesn't really look all that bad. It's not a bad ship by any means. But the Vesta? I cannot put to words just how close this ship is to the perfect Science vessel.
It's the Scryer that I don't feel is being done justice.
By doing that, it ends up no where. Only 6 slots for weapons gimps it in a sense. If i was to use FAW, it wouldn't be this ship. I would go cruiser all the way.
Why have 6 weapons when you can have 8 on a cruiser?
and thats 1 reason why tac heavy cruisers work, and tac heavy sci don't, at least the cruiser has the most possible weapon slots.
the other is that its a ship with a COM sci, that means aux is majorly important, on cruisers and escorts its mainly the dump stat. there's not enough power to go around, to have max aux to support all your sci skills, and max weapons power to utilize all those tac stations.
for a torp boat thats more tac then you need, and those aren't any good outside pvp. base kinetic resistance is so high on shields, you need energy weapons to expose hull first. npc hp is so high, spiky torp damage bypassing shields wont drastically effect your target, especially with the crazy high hp and res ships have between level 50 and 60.
I hope maybe they will consider changing the Lt to a Uni...I mean they changed the DD back during LoR testing...the DD is a iconic ship...I suppose the Dauntless is the only ship in the DR pack that could be considered *iconic*.
Hoping with how close DR is getting maybe they will treat it better...
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Unfortunately changing the seating won't make either T6 Sci ship any better than the Vestas. They are both too light on the dps front. No hanger and 2/3 tac slots equals end of story.
Unfortunately changing the seating won't make either T6 Sci ship any better than the Vestas. They are both too light on the dps front. No hanger and 2/3 tac slots equals end of story.
I don't really care if it's not up to the Vesta, I already own and fly one...I'm not looking for DPS when it comes to this change...if I was thinking about DPS I'd want them to keep it as it is.
I want it for other reasons...
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Based on the responses to this thread, I'm glad i'm not in the minority in thinking the Dauntless is gimped if it is released as is. Let's hope Cryptic give us a positive outcome based on the responses to this thread.
But....but...but I just read in another thread that anyone NOT flying a Dauntless or Guardian is a poser and not a REAL player! Cause the Dauntless is uber...and stuff!
Comments
Except it can't compete with the Vesta...no way. It's not only short the hangar but the Recon MME has a extra tac console. With the MME line you can do many things with it...this Dauntless in pidgeonholed into a tac ship pretty much...except it sucks as a tac ship because it is lacking in multiple areas.
It lacks the option for DHC's to do any real punch and it lacks the weapon slots Escorts and Cruisers have. You only have a Cmdr Sci unless you sacrifice your Intel slots so you aren't going to be able to do sufficient exotic damage or draining with it.
Why can't Sci be healers? Why did they give Sci healing abilities? If a Cruiser can DPS and a Escort/Destroyer can tank why not a Sci Heal?
And if you want to tell me that Escorts can't tank then they're only DPS and if you tell me Cruisers are healers then who is the tank of STO? Ships can fit multiple roles if done right and played right...I don't see why you insist a Sci can't heal...especially when SA boosts healing on the friendly target.
He was being sarcastic...lol
I know, but my point was that there are too many players who really DO approach the game that way, but that even with THAT mindset it doesn't work. Even reduced to lowest common denominator its still blah.
Yes, inunderstand, but Crytpic has not wowed me with either science ship. I like the Scryer more, bu I would rather the commander be dedicated science and the lt commander be the Intel/ science seat.
The loss of a second lt commander spot on the Duantless has really bothered me. I would rather have seen it like this
Commander science
Lt. commander science/Intel
Lt commander eng
Lt tactical.
Fed escorts have a dual lt commander Boff slot, the patrol escort retrofit has an awesome Boff layput, would love to see a science ship like that.
I'm reminded of a post from 2013 about Aux Powered Weapons, e.g. the Vesta's Aux DHC. I wonder if the Delta Alliance Reputation Store will offer something that is more suitable to the Dauntless's abilities; it is an "experimental science ship", after all. (I haven't looked into the Store offerings on Tribble yet.)
Or more experimental in the sense of being TAC focused, despite being a "SCI" ship. :rolleyes: I think Cryptic is caught between having seen the Dauntless as a likely SCI ship in VOY's "Hope and Fear" episode, given the Quantum Slipstream Drive (QSD) -- and a possible TAC ship during ENT's "Azati Prime" episode, during the Battle of Procyon V.
Bottom line here: Some players, including me, are looking forward to trying this ship -- and seeing what can be done with it. Question is, will I continue use the Dauntless with one (or more) of my toons?
Time will tell.
As will the sales of this new ship.
and one thing has not been talked about is that the Lt sci,tac,eng/intel on all ships will not be used for those classes it will be intel abilities lets be honest , so in reality the ship had 4 sci spots and 5 tac spots making it a tactical ship not a science ship really
And tanks are not healers to the people who said that , tanks are tanks with secondary heal or dps
Where science can run the gambit of heal buff debuff
So in the end make one of the tac bridge officer stations 1 of the 3 sci eng or universal
I agree with you here. When I look at the Dauntless, I think "science vessel with teeth". An odd "hybrid" of sorts.
It's definitely a casual's "pew, pew" science ship.
LTC Uni
LT Uni
And give us a ship we can customize to whatever role we want. It would be different, still Sci centric with a Cmdr Sci. Everyone would buy it, just because it looks cool and it's flexible.
Please give everyone a reason to buy this. Not just wanna be escort pilots.
I got nuthin'. Vesta is just flat out superior as both a tactical DPS machine AND a sci vessel, which begs the questions:
Surely the Devs should have seen this coming, and why didn't they give the Dauntless something unique to set it apart as a REAL option in comparison?
Seriously, what's the hyper-advanced slipstream drive gonna be any good for? Tour the Galaxy?
I'm guessing the ship is more of a fanboy crowd pleaser than a design to replace a "heavy" sci ship like the Vesta, which I can also just not see myself replaceing with either of the the 2 federation T6 sci ship offerings at this time.
Although my sci captain that runs a vesta isn't my main I will eventually be getting the upgrade for the vesta, unless between now and then they release something that I feel can replace it in a T6 grade. I don't PvP and don't push total min/max stuff so I'm not terribly worried. I'll be working on upgrading my main's gear first as I run que's with him normally anyway and I am grinding dil into zen to get a Guardian for him.
Who was crying? I'm not LOL.... I simply said I didn't like the current offerings... nothing more.
Of course the Romulans aren't crying. Have you seen the Fhaet? It's literally the final word in warbirds. Any romulan in his right mind is gonna want to be in that thing!
Quality over quantity
Well I don't think it looks cool...in fact I think she is kinda ugly :P
But that doesn't change the fact that if she had a Lt or Lt Cmdr Uni she would be exactly what I was looking for in a special customized Sci ship...other than the Vesta.
Plus that special ship trait they gave it just doesn't fit without some more engineering based hull heals available.
Make the tactical bridge officer stations universal. Then it would have means Lt and Ltc uni.
That would satisfy most ppl and give it a lot of versatility...
Its simply the perfect solution...
God knows what the devs were thinking when they gave the ship its boff layout....And gave it a lt and ltc tac...
Truthseeker69
Sad Pandas/Show me your Critz
Lt and Lt Cmdr Uni is a little to powerful, should be one or the other and not both.
See my signature below.
Please Cryptic, I really wanna use this ship. Been looking forward to it being added to the game for sometime.
Really stoked when I heard it was gonna be a science ship. Please make it good, instead of a mediocre.
Ultimately, the problem simply lies in the fact that the Vesta is so near perfect a science vessel that trying to find anything to top it is nigh impossible.
If you take the Vesta out of the equation, the Dauntless doesn't really look all that bad. It's not a bad ship by any means. But the Vesta? I cannot put to words just how close this ship is to the perfect Science vessel.
It's the Scryer that I don't feel is being done justice.
and thats 1 reason why tac heavy cruisers work, and tac heavy sci don't, at least the cruiser has the most possible weapon slots.
the other is that its a ship with a COM sci, that means aux is majorly important, on cruisers and escorts its mainly the dump stat. there's not enough power to go around, to have max aux to support all your sci skills, and max weapons power to utilize all those tac stations.
for a torp boat thats more tac then you need, and those aren't any good outside pvp. base kinetic resistance is so high on shields, you need energy weapons to expose hull first. npc hp is so high, spiky torp damage bypassing shields wont drastically effect your target, especially with the crazy high hp and res ships have between level 50 and 60.
Hoping with how close DR is getting maybe they will treat it better...
I don't really care if it's not up to the Vesta, I already own and fly one...I'm not looking for DPS when it comes to this change...if I was thinking about DPS I'd want them to keep it as it is.
I want it for other reasons...
--Red Annorax
Whoa, whoa...hold up. Let's not get ahead of ourselves here.
Have you seen the Eclipse?
(yes, heavy sarcasm has been applied to the post)
Ever. E V E R .
(disclaimer: The views expressed by this poster are his own and may or may not be representative of other players in general or of you in particular.)
Did I already say "ever"? 'Cause, freakin' EVER!
BTW, I'm glad I quit watching Voyager before the episode with this ... thing ... aired. Because I prolly woulda thrown a brick at the TV.
--Red Annorax